US Sued for War Crimes

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DW : Rumsfeld Sued for Alleged War Crimes

Alleging responsibility for war crimes and torture at Baghdad's Abu Ghraib prison, a human rights group has filed a criminal complaint in Germany against US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and other top US officials.
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They said they had chosen Germany because of its Code of Crimes Against International Law, introduced in 2002, which grants German courts universal jurisdiction in cases involving war crimes or crimes against humanity.

Reuters : U.S. Group Urges Rumsfeld War Crimes Probe in Germany

BERLIN (Reuters) - A U.S. human rights group urged German prosecutors Tuesday to investigate accusations that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and senior U.S. officers are guilty of war crimes over the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal.

In an unusual legal move, the U.S. Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR) has filed a criminal complaint with Germany's Federal Prosecutors along with four Iraqis who say they were tortured and humiliated alongside other prisoners by U.S. soldiers at the notorious Abu Ghraib prison outside Baghdad.

CCR is taking advantage of a 2002 German law allowing prosecutions for human rights and war crimes regardless of where the acts took place or the nationalities of the perpetrators.

The group says Rumsfeld, former CIA Director George Tenet, a senior defense official and seven U.S. military officers, including the former top U.S. commander in Iraq, Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, were ultimately responsible for the torture and humiliation of the Iraqis by U.S. soldiers at Abu Ghraib.


Several other websites also mention it, such as The Center for Constitutional Rights.

The question is now "will they succeed ?" and "How long will it take ?". Would you like to see similar charges held against president Bush ? Does the US guarantee presidential immunity (like France) ? If so, does it expire after his term at the white house ? It took several decades to judge Pinochet (not yet finished) and he was more vulnerable than a US president, so there is less chance that Bush be sued, even his he is responsible for mor death than Pinochet.

Let us not forget that Belgium had alreday strated procedures to prosecute George H.W. Bush for the 1991 Gulf War, George W Bush and Tony Blair for the current war, as well as Yasser Arafaf (now dead), and Ariel Sharon, all under its universal competence law.

BBC News : Belgium opens way for Sharon trial

Unfortunately, when it came to Bush sr and jr, the US threatened to move the NATO's headquarters out of Belgium if it were to continue the case, and that led to this : BBC News : Belgium rethinks war crimes law

Belgium's governing parties are scrambling to amend a controversial law which some fear could be used in a war crimes lawsuit against US President George W Bush.

The law allows Belgian courts to pass judgment on charges of war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide, regardless of where the alleged acts took place or the nationality of the accused.

Critics have warned that a case against President Bush could be filed under the law, known as universal competence, and Belgium's role as host to international institutions could be threatened.

And finally : Belgium amends war crimes law

The Belgian Senate has given final approval to a new version of a war crimes law which had led to cases being filed against several world leaders.
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The revised law drops a controversial "universal competence" clause which led to complaints being filed against US President George W Bush, UK Prime Minister Tony Blair and Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.
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Previously, Belgian courts could try anyone for war crimes, genocide or crimes against humanity, regardless of their nationality and of where the alleged crimes were committed.

The new bill will limit the jurisdiction of the courts to cases only involving Belgian citizens and residents.

The US had threatened to block further funding for Nato's new headquarters in Belgium until the law was withdrawn.
 
Well, under that German law from 2002 there have been 26 criminal complaints filed. Guess how many of these cases have made their way to the court! 0 (zero)!

Same will most probably happen with the Rumsfeld case. What could be interesting is the decision regarding the military officers stationed in Germany, though. The law makes it rather easy to deny legal proceedings in case of (continued) absence from Germany. But these officers might return (or be) here, then it's more difficult.
 
The US had threatened to block further funding for Nato's new headquarters in Belgium until the law was withdrawn.
Shame. shame, shame ! This is bad news. :(
What's a bully called that can't go by the rules of the game that all the small time players are suppoed to abide by ? Is justice only for the Holocaust victims, but the other non-Jewish victims of war crimes are not worthy enough ? What limited application of "justice for all" ?

BULL-IE... SMALL TIME :box:

edit: There should be a higher law to illegalise amending the principle of Universal Competence... If indicting an alleged war criminal who is also a powerful person in practice is close to impossible, then at least the principle should be preserved. This shameful bargaining of justice is greatly damaging the New World Order: once the law changes are made, I can safely say, Justice as we know it is over.
 
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What's a bully called that can't go by the rules of the game that all the small time players are suppoed to abide by ?

Abide by what rules? As soon as these "rules" are agreed upon by an international body - and not the GERMAN GOVERNMENT - then sure. . .string them up in court. Until then - its all theatre. Whats to stop the UNITED STATES from instituting their own "laws" that assesses punitive measures against other countries. I'd like to see how well that would go over with these countries.
 
WHEATTHlNS said:
Abide by what rules? As soon as these "rules" are agreed upon by an international body - and not the GERMAN GOVERNMENT - then sure. . .string them up in court. Until then - its all theatre. Whats to stop the UNITED STATES from instituting their own "laws" that assesses punitive measures against other countries. I'd like to see how well that would go over with these countries.
1. Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide 1948 (pdf)

2. The Geneva Conventions 1949

3. Convention on the Non-Applicability of Statutory Limitations to Crimes against Humanity and War Crimes, 1970 (pdf)

4. Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court 1998-1999

These are the higher level laws passed at the UN general assembly regarding war crimes, crimes agains humanity, and genocide crimes that require all member states to legislate state laws in compliance to the standards stipulated therein. Belgium only abided by the UN requirement whereas the US has been breaking it. What is your excuse for that ?
 
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The US hasn't signed #3 or #4 and under international law has no obligation to do so under the UN charter. Geneva I and II are essentially Jus Cogens as my flatmate informs me, but not Geneva III.

Also the Belgian war crimes law was going to be removed, regardless of the US pressure. It was a continuing source of embarrassment for the government because every other week it would attempt to indict another world leader. Furthermore these cases essentially run into Article 2 P. 4 of the UN charter

All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.

Since you are threating the use of force (imprisonment of a national) on another sovreign country with a functioning legal system, the a host country's legal system is clearly legally barred from trying such cases. The ICC as well is barred from doing so as well, unless directed by the UN security council. Some case could be made that Rumsfeld could be charged because of Command responsibility, however really no court except a US one could try him with a reasonable hope of success, because they would have an impossible task to prove that he was complict.

Thirdly there is no legal foundation to sue bush for anything, I'll ignore the fact that you can't do so because he's a head of state. On the basis of resolutions 687 and 1441 the US has a solid legal cover for its actions. 1441 never called for a second resolution, and in very unclear terms it rested on the report of the weapons inspectors for use of force. However Hans Blix's report was unclear saying we haven't found anything yet but we were interfered with. With that being the case, the United States has sufficient legal coverage for its action.
 
UNCAT: United Nations Convention Against Torture

Again there is the UN Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhumane or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, June 26, 1987, that is being addressed.
The United Nations Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (UNCAT) is an international human rights instrument, organized by the United Nations and intended to prevent torture and other similar activities. It created the UN Committee Against Torture, which focuses on the duties of national leaders in a preventive role. UNCAT came into force in June 1987 and to date, it has been ratified by 65 nations, with another 16 having signed but not yet ratified.

The Convention Against Torture is one of a series of UN agreements that seek to protect human rights. The most relevant articles on torture are articles 1, 2, 3 and the first paragraph of article 16.


Article 1

1. Any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.

2. This article is without prejudice to any international instrument or national legislation which does or may contain provisions of wider application.


Article 2

1. Each State Party shall take effective legislative, administrative, judicial or other measures to prevent acts of torture in any territory under its jurisdiction.

2. No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat of war, internal political in stability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture.

3. An order from a superior officer or a public authority may not be invoked as a justification of torture.


Article 3

1. No State Party shall expel, return ("refouler") or extradite a person to another State where there are substantial grounds for believing that he would be in danger of being subjected to torture.

2. For the purpose of determining whether there are such grounds, the competent authorities shall take into account all relevant considerations including, where applicable, the existence in the State concerned of a consistent pattern of gross, flagrant or mass violations of human rights.


Article 16

1. Each State Party shall undertake to prevent in any territory under its jurisdiction other acts of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment which do not amount to torture as defined in article I, when such acts are committed by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. In particular, the obligations contained in articles 10, 11, 12 and 13 shall apply with the substitution for references to torture of references to other forms of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.


There are several points which need highlighting:

Section 1: torture is defined as severe pain or suffering, which means there must be levels of pain and suffering which are not severe enough to be called torture. Discussions on this area of international law are influenced by a ruling of the European Court of Human Rights(ECHR) on sensory deprivation.

Section 2: If a state has signed the treaty without reservations, then there are no exceptional circumstances whatsoever where a state can use torture and not break its treaty obligations. However the worst sanction which can be applied to a powerful county is the publishing of the information that they have broken their treaty obligations. In certain exceptional cases the authorities in those countries may consider that with plausible deniability that this is an acceptable risk to take as the definition of severe is open to flexible interpretation.

Section 16: contains the phrase territory under its jurisdiction other acts of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, so if the government of a state authorises its personnel to use sensory deprivation on a detainee in territory not under its jurisdiction then it has not broken its treaty obligations.

The Convention has received new attention in the world press because of the Stress and duress interrogation techniques used on the detainees at the Abu Ghraib prison by United States military personnel. See Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse. The United States ratified the Convention, but with one reservation: that "... nothing in this Convention requires or authorizes legislation, or other action, by the United States of America prohibited by the Constitution of the United States as interpreted by the United States." [1], footnote #11)

The Convention also requires states to take effective measures to prevent torture within their borders, and forbids states to return people to their home country if there is reason to believe they will be tortured.
 
First off, you don't need to post the whole law... we can click on the link if need be. Its also redundant, as the US hasn't ratified this treaty, and has no obligation to under international law.

Secondly if Rumsfeld gets charged (if ever) he would be done so under US criminal law for having command responsibility for troops, as he may have knowingly aided and abetted a crime. He may fall under the War Crimes act 1996 and Anti torture act of 1996
 
Third, as an American citizen I would like to personally apologize for the crap Donald Rumsfeld has pulled over the years, and his superiors.


I can't promise it'll happen again. I can promise I'll protect your rights to bash them whenever you want.
 

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