V13* or CTS5856*

[Riverman]

Riverman Maybe the southern Arc
Paper will find some e-v13's

If all three papers would fail on that completely, it would be a complete failure.
But it's difficult, because they mostly cremated. But I do expect some to pop up, hopefully.

 

[kingdavid]

If all three papers would fail on that completely, it would be a complete failure.
But it's difficult, because they mostly cremated. But I do expect some to pop up, hopefully.

It will show if this 3 papers include samples from bulgaria
Also in the near east it will show but on later period or the last paper

 

[garrett01]

Any idea when these papers might come out, I would appreciate, I also show up as the match on yfull for CTS1273 -VK362. thanks

 

[Riverman]

Any idea when these papers might come out, I would appreciate, I also show up as the match on yfull for CTS1273 -VK362. thanks

Most say two things:
- they will come out at the end of this week or latest next week
- there are not many E-V13 samples - going by the rumours. Let's hope they are wrong and they just don't know all the data. But even if, we should keep in mind that E-V13 being most clearly related to the cremating groups of the Carpathian Basin and Northern-Central to Eastern Balkans. So we have a sampling bias at work which is huge. It's like having a mixed Slavic and Romance group, but the Slavs cremate, the Romance people prefer inhumation. You can only find those which can be tested, the ones which used inhumation.
And if a rite being very clearly associated with most of the early candidate cultures for E-V13, its cremation.

 

[garrett01]

Thanks for the info.

 

[Tim]

YFull and FTDNA create their trees largely independent from each other and if YFull has so far no members of the respective branches in its tree, they don't create them. FTDNA has generally more testers and more branches, though there are here and there exceptions with YFull having more. You will also note that they name the branches differently, just like they detect them. So the same branch on FTDNA might be named after a different significant SNP than on YFull, even if its, actually, the same branch both describing. Just think of it as two researchers and each one getting their own material and sorting it their own way, based on just some rough preliminary outline which was established by others before. They are both pioneering without watching each other carefully, which can be quite confusing at times.
My branches and subbranches have different names on both sites

 

[Tim]

No those are definitely not the same

Hi all, I am English and can trace my male line back to my 8th great-grandfather and his marriage in 1673 (no records prior to this date) in Derbyshire, England. My surname is post-Norman conquest patronymic and Germanic in origin and first appears (Old French) in the Domesday Book with the first identically spelled (Middle English) surname recorded in early 14thC . LivingDNA says I'm 97% English (primarily Central England ie Derbyshire) and 3% South Germanic although this is only relevant for the last 10 generations or so.

As I have no real knowledge about haplogroups and genetics I need a little technical education right now....

1. LivingDNA have given me my haplogroup as E-V13 and my terminal SNPs as L142.1, L542/PF2220, Page102, PF2211/V13, PF2210/V36 which on the ISOGG tree equates to E1b1b1a1b1
2. On 'SNP Tracker' this gives my V13 location in the Albania region.
3. However, I also have CTS5856 (I have no other downstream SNPs below this) which ISOGG puts as E1b1b1a1b1 - does this make it 'earlier' than E1b1b1a1b1a?
4. CTS5856 appears as a subclade of V13 on the phylo tree and 'SNP Tracker' places CTS5856 further north along the migration path in the Slovenia region so later than V13.

Is CTS5856 really earlier than V13 - as per E1b1b1a1b1 versus E1b1b1a1b1a - or later as per the tree?And, so, am I V13* (Albanian) or CTS5856* (Slovenian)? Or not!? Either way, would I be right in considering that my ancestors route to England could be from where CTS5856 appears in Slovenia, maybe 'up the Danube' to Austria, west through Germany, over to France/Belgium finally crossing the Channel with or shortly after the Norman invasion around 900 years or so ago?

Finally, a 'technical' question,

1. why do I have no further downstream variants from CTS5856? What causes the SNP variations/mutations to stop happening? What was it in the last 4000 years that kept my haplogroup so stable?

Many thanks for any help you can give, it will be much appreciated.

No those are definitely not the same I was told that E-CTS5856 and E-CTS1273 are identical, but I am not sure how I would confirm it either way?

 

[Cercatore]

I have taken the same tests with same results, LDNA has me as E-V13, YSEQ has CTS1273 as most specific on yfull, but postive for A7730 T+, which is not on yfull. Went to Genetic Homeland and searched A7730 which shows up as BY6540 coincident with BY6543, phylogenetic parent BY6532. Does anyone have information on A7730 also known as BY6540. thanks

According to YSEQ I'm BY6525+ BY6513- so E-BY6532* or E-BY6518* at FTDNA, and E-BY6510* at YFull.

Are you on FamilyTreeDNA? My Big Y-700 recently failed QC and is being retried but my Y-111 is up and... not really popular, I have a single match at Y-12.

EDIT 2025-02-04: just received a BY6538- so cannot be E-BY6518 as it's defined as (BY6518,BY6538) on FTDNA.

 

[Cercatore]

Hey @garrett01 got a couple more SNPs, looks like we're on the same haplogroup.

I'm positive for FTDNA E-BY6532 and YFull E-BY6510:

• BY6525+ / A7731+
• BY6540+ / A7730+

...and negative for its only descendant E-BY6518:

• BY6518- / A7733-
• BY6538- / A7732-

So I am (we are?) E-BY6532*

E-BY6532 country frequency table:

• Germany 2
• Italy 1
• United States 1
• Italy (Sardinia) 1
• Unknown 2

E-BY6518 country frequency table:

• Germany 2
• United States 1
• Italy (Sardinia) 1
• Unknown 2

So there's just one sample on E-BY6532*, and it's from Italy.
Back on Nov 29, 2024 that Italy sample wasn't there: [archive.org link]
The Italy sample was added between Nov 29, 2024 and Jan 15, 2025.

My paternal line comes from Italy and I declared so on FTDNA's Earliest Known Ancestor.

My Big Y-700 failed QC early Jan... is it still possible that I am the "Italy" sample?
None of my YDNA matches are on BigY. Y-12: one exact, one GD=1. Y-25 one GD=2. Y-37 two GD=4.
Pinging @Riverman for insight on whether that (QC failed but Discover updated) is possible.

 

[garrett01]

I am locked in on Y-Full at E-BY3880, no further matches other than England, I match on FTDNA as FT171931 and have contacted this gentlemen and we are of same Surname.

 

[Cercatore]

I am locked in on Y-Full at E-BY3880, no further matches other than England, I match on FTDNA as FT171931 and have contacted this gentlemen and we are of same Surname.

Oh this threw me off:

YSEQ has CTS1273 as most specific on yfull, but postive for A7730 T+

A7730=BY6540's ancestral is T and derived is C, so you are negative... A7730 T-