Politics Vote for a president of USA - 2016 election

[bicicleur 2]

@Yetos,
No, all terrorists are not Muslims, or they didn't use to be. We've had IRA Irish terrorists for a long time, although they've recently been quiet.

In the U.S. we've had skin head white racist terrorists, extreme Christian terrorists, black terrorists and white Communist/Socialist terrorists in the sixties, American Indian extremists or terrorists.

In Europe there was the Red Brigades and the Baader-Meinhof group. Communism came to power through the admitted use of terror.

It goes on and on.

Yes, these were dispicable.
But none of them (I mean terrorist groups) have ever had so much support worldwide.
None of them have had the opportunity to commit the atrocities Muslim extremism has done so far.
None of them wanted to conquer the world and persecute everyone that don't want to subject to their ideologie.
Boko Haram is killer n° 1 worldwide, ISIS is killer n°2.
If they'd find even more support and means, they'd start WW III.

It is not an American problem, it is a worldwide problem which will ultimately also affect America.

 

[bicicleur 2]

On the other hand, in a broader sense, anyone who joins ISIS and does these kinds of horrendous acts is borderline psychotic in my opinion. Also, he made two trips to Saudi Arabia, and was questioned twice by the FBI, so this is not just some crazy who snapped and latched on to the ideology to commit suicide by cop.

So, definitely, the ideology itself has to be fought. We also have to stop with the political correctness. If the most current reports are correct, he was talking about killing people in the name of Islam to co-workers, who reported it, but the company allegedly refused to call the police or FBI for fear of profiling Muslims. This has got to stop.

How must the FBI agent who closed this case, or the company officers feel when they look at the footage of that poor mother outside the club screaming, "Where's my son? Nobody can tell me where my son is."

In Europe the problem is even worse. There are thousands or ISIS fighters coming back to Europe.
Politicians claim they are all followed and monitored. That is bullshit, that would require a manpower nobody can afford.
Putting all of them in jail, that is 'against there rights', there is to little proof, lawyers are ready and happy to defend these guys.
Furthermore the jails would be overcrowded.
Someone in jail costs the Belgian taxpayer 50.000 € every year.
Monitoring and following some one 24/24 costs some 450.000 €/year in Belgium.
So, why not admit that the system as it is organised today is unable to controll the situation?
These guys who go to another country to murder and torture other people, or these guys that preach that hatred ideology simply have to many rights.

 

[Angela]

I've been a long time supporter of James Comey, the FBI director, but I was very disappointed with his public statement. He doesn't see any cognitive dissonance between on the one hand telling tell people to report anything suspicious, and on the other hand revealing that the FBI interviewed him as the result of a complaint about his behavior from an employer, but closed that investigation.

I don't see how anyone could think, albeit in hindsight, that this was the correct decision.

There's also the access to guns question. When someone has this many red flags, he should not have been able to buy firearms. His name should have been flagged.

 

[bicicleur 2]

I've been a long time supporter of James Comey, the FBI director, but I was very disappointed with his public statement. He doesn't see any cognitive dissonance between on the one hand telling tell people to report anything suspicious, and on the other hand revealing that the FBI interviewed him as the result of a complaint about his behavior from an employer, but closed that investigation.

I don't see how anyone could think, albeit in hindsight, that this was the correct decision.

maybe there are far more such lunatics walking around in America than you can imagine ..

 

[bicicleur 2]

There's also the access to guns question. When someone has this many red flags, he should not have been able to buy firearms. His name should have been flagged.

the free arms law in America is uncomprehensible for Europeans

on the other hand possesion of arms is forbidden or very strict regulated in Europe, yet all big criminal organisations and terrorist groups posses arms

 

[Angela]

the free arms law in America is uncomprehensible for Europeans

on the other hand possesion of arms is forbidden or very strict regulated in Europe, yet all big criminal organisations and terrorist groups posses arms

There's really no point in debating the general right to bear arms in the U.S. There's enough in the constitution (although it doesn't actually say what people claim it says,in my opinion), and enough precedent from the Supreme Court on down, that owning a gun will never be banned here.

Only the fringe thinks there shouldn't be controls, however. This guy should never have been able to get guns, much less a concealed carry permit.

Criminals and terrorists will always be able to get guns. That's not to say that it isn't more difficult when there are more regulations.

I'm personally torn, honestly, partly because I tend to be a bit of a libertarian, and partly because of what I know from history.

To take a hunting rifle from rural Americans who regularly go hunting in accordance with long established custom is crazy in my opinion. The problem is really with semi-automatic weapons. How do we handle access to them? Our gun rights organizations demonize any attempt to control them because they say it's the thin edge of the wedge; once the government bans those it will ban all guns. A significant number of Americans are pushed by that fear into not supporting a total ban. Even Bernie Sanders, Socialist/Communist extraordinaire, was pro gun rights. He couldn't be anything else and get elected from Vermont, which is still a very rural state with a strong tradition of hunting.

The United States has traditionally had a mistrust of government, and particularly strong, centralized governments, and that distrust is enshrined in American institutions and laws. Some Americans believe that if private citizens don't have the means to defend themselves against armed government officials, the day could come when they would lose their liberty to a government overthrown or subverted from within. I don't think that's totally crazy. One of the first things the fascists did in Italy after coming to power was to confiscate every single gun in private hands. That's one of the reasons there was no resistance to them, and that it only started once the British and Americans started dropping weapons and ammunition in for the partisans.

On the other hand, you can have loony mothers who allow depressed, mal-adjusted teens to have access to semi-automatic weapons, as in a recent school shooting case.

Then, the carnage of the Boston Marathon terror attack was perpetrated largely by making bombs out of pressure cookers.

I don't know what the answer is...it's just a mess.

 

[Athiudisc]

This event bolstered both Trump and Clinton, in the eyes of their supporters.

Trumpers: "See? Muslims are clearly dangerous and should be subject to extra scrutiny! Enough with the political correctness!"

Clintonites: "See? Guns are too dangerous to be so readily-available! We need more gun control! Enough from the gun lobbies!"

 

[elghund]

Don't be bringing in Wahhabi and then try to limit my rights because they go jihad.

 

[Yetos]

@Yetos,
No, all terrorists are not Muslims, or they didn't use to be. We've had IRA Irish terrorists for a long time, although they've recently been quiet.

In the U.S. we've had skin head white racist terrorists, extreme Christian terrorists, black terrorists and white Communist/Socialist terrorists in the sixties, American Indian extremists or terrorists.

In Europe there was the Red Brigades and the Baader-Meinhof group. Communism came to power through the admitted use of terror.

It goes on and on.

Angela before 30 yes,

we had 17 November, Mafias, Red Brigade, IRA, ETA etc etc

but where are they the last 30 years?
and ok the 20 years?
after Heathrow 1970s islamic terror is rising, (Shuna)
while political terror declines,

The domino effect? the anti-muslim feeling is getting stronger, soon we will have attack on innocent muslims,
if Muslims do not isolate and protest against ISIS ideas, then we will face more terror as retaliation of societies,

At the funeral of Mohamed Ali even politician and presidents went to honor a great Muslim,
But would the same people go to the funeral of the victims of the terrorist attack? NO
why? cause they were LGBT? or because Shuna is sacred?

the last 40 years Islam is testing the West societies,
the last 20-30 years all terrorists are MUslims
The last 20 years I have not seen a Muslim gathering to protest against Foundamental Islam
Only against USA and WEST general.

 

[LeBrok]

For starters these American Muslim leaders could and should have acknowledged that Muslim fundamentalism is a worldwide problem and that even some American Muslims are also prone to the fundamentalist rhetoric. They should have warned for this allready before there was an attack. This is to little to late. They are washing their hands in innocence after harm has been done.

Give them some creadit. After 9/11 there were nowhere to be found. Now they are on TV right away denouncing extremists, terrorists, and intolerance to others. That's a huge progress!

Even Obama never dared to criticise Islam.

or Christianity or Hinduism.

 

[Yetos]

For starters these American Muslim leaders could and should have acknowledged that Muslim fundamentalism is a worldwide problem and that even some American Muslims are also prone to the fundamentalist rhetoric. They should have warned for this allready before there was an attack. This is to little to late. They are washing their hands in innocence after harm has been done.
Even Obama never dared to criticise Islam.
It is this silence that makes Trump stronger.
Not all short sighted people are in the Trump camp.

No they are not washing their hands,
infact they attack again giving a second slap to freedom

like a common crime of a homosexual and a homophobic,
just kill 50 perverts, deviants at a bar, well done to him, he will be in paradise cause he killed 50 pervert

that is not wash my hands,
when say wash hands, you mean i only execute, other is responcible,
that is a second slap on face,

the first is the massacre,
the second is that the fault is in the west that has perverts, and he a 'angel of God' clear the perverts from gods garden,
so foundamental Islam is again clean and on top.

I still wonder
ALL THESE GUYS THAT WENT TO MOHAMED ALI FUNERAL,
WILL THEY GO TO PUT A FLOWER FOR THE DEAD? OR TEACH THAT THIS IS PARANOIA?

 

[Maleth]

I would not exclude that he would have had homosexual tendencies himself and the circumstances would have made his life impossible full of guilt and resentment. But those are deeper things we will never find out. He had a very short marriage and beated up his wife for not doing the laundry example. In return suppression and depression would make you cling to something. Some commit suicide quitley to get away from an unbearable situation. Others want to bring down the world with them.

hmm getting drunk in a gaybar been visiting for the past 3 years? would we get to know more about this?

[video]http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/14/us/orlando-shooter-omar-mateen/index.html[/video]

 

[bicicleur 2]

No they are not washing their hands,
infact they attack again giving a second slap to freedom

like a common crime of a homosexual and a homophobic,
just kill 50 perverts, deviants at a bar, well done to him, he will be in paradise cause he killed 50 pervert

that is not wash my hands,
when say wash hands, you mean i only execute, other is responcible,
that is a second slap on face,

the first is the massacre,
the second is that the fault is in the west that has perverts, and he a 'angel of God' clear the perverts from gods garden,
so foundamental Islam is again clean and on top.

I still wonder
ALL THESE GUYS THAT WENT TO MOHAMED ALI FUNERAL,
WILL THEY GO TO PUT A FLOWER FOR THE DEAD? OR TEACH THAT THIS IS PARANOIA?

'this is not Islam'
but it is the way to paradise
how stupid and blind can you be?

 

[Angela]

hmm getting drunk in a gaybar been visiting for the past 3 years? would we get to know more about this?

[video]http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/14/us/orlando-shooter-omar-mateen/index.html[/video]

I'm not sure what to make of it. It's certainly possible that he was actually homosexual and was conflicted about it. At the same time, he might have been "casing" these types of places, so that may have been a part of it. I just saw the CNN interview with his ex-wife, and I think they were pushing her to say she suspected he was secretly gay. It didn't seem to me that she had suspected it before this information came out, not that this is dispositive, of course.

What's clear is that he also was radicalized on the internet by extremist Muslim clerics. There are leaks coming out that he consumed an incredible amount of this garbage.

It's important to realize, as well, that since childhood he was in an alternative school specifically designed for kids with emotional and/or psychiatric problems.

I wonder if he was on anti-psychotic meds, and if he had been prescribed them, whether he was taking them. From what the wife was saying, there was an abrupt change in him a few months after she married him, with him displaying a lot of anger and physically abusing her.

 

[Angela]

No they are not washing their hands,
infact they attack again giving a second slap to freedom

like a common crime of a homosexual and a homophobic,
just kill 50 perverts, deviants at a bar, well done to him, he will be in paradise cause he killed 50 pervert

that is not wash my hands,
when say wash hands, you mean i only execute, other is responcible,
that is a second slap on face,

the first is the massacre,
the second is that the fault is in the west that has perverts, and he a 'angel of God' clear the perverts from gods garden,
so foundamental Islam is again clean and on top.

I still wonder
ALL THESE GUYS THAT WENT TO MOHAMED ALI FUNERAL,
WILL THEY GO TO PUT A FLOWER FOR THE DEAD? OR TEACH THAT THIS IS PARANOIA?

You are making statements directly contradicted by the facts. Hundreds stood in line for six hours and more to give blood for the victims. An online site has already collected over 2 million dollars for them. Millions have participated in ceremonies honoring them, the House of Representatives observed a minute of silence for them, and the President will indeed be going to Orlando.

 

[bicicleur 2]

You are making statements directly contradicted by the facts. Hundreds stood in line for six hours and more to give blood for the victims. An online site has already collected over 2 million dollars for them. Millions have participated in ceremonies honoring them, the House of Representatives observed a minute of silence for them, and the President will indeed be going to Orlando.

that is one side, and it is Americans that feel sympathy for the victims and their relatives
the paper shows another side, how Muslims in Turkey look at it, it's the duty of the American Muslim leaders to warn for this kind of interpretation of Islam that does exist in many countries around the world
if the American Muslim leaders don't do that, then Trumps comments on the shooting make more sense than what Clinton says

 

[bicicleur 2]

No they are not washing their hands,
infact they attack again giving a second slap to freedom

like a common crime of a homosexual and a homophobic,
just kill 50 perverts, deviants at a bar, well done to him, he will be in paradise cause he killed 50 pervert

that is not wash my hands,
when say wash hands, you mean i only execute, other is responcible,
that is a second slap on face,

the first is the massacre,
the second is that the fault is in the west that has perverts, and he a 'angel of God' clear the perverts from gods garden,
so foundamental Islam is again clean and on top.

I still wonder
ALL THESE GUYS THAT WENT TO MOHAMED ALI FUNERAL,
WILL THEY GO TO PUT A FLOWER FOR THE DEAD? OR TEACH THAT THIS IS PARANOIA?

I don't understand Turkish

just kill 50 perverts, deviants at a bar, well done to him, he will be in paradise cause he killed 50 pervert

is that what the paper says?

 

[Angela]

that is one side, and it is Americans that feel sympathy for the victims and their relatives
the paper shows another side, how Muslims in Turkey look at it, it's the duty of the American Muslim leaders to warn for this kind of interpretation of Islam that does exist in many countries around the world

I don't disagree with that. I was responding to the other part of his post.

 

[Maleth]

I'm not sure what to make of it. It's certainly possible that he was actually homosexual and was conflicted about it. At the same time, he might have been "casing" these types of places, so that may have been a part of it. I just saw the CNN interview with his ex-wife, and I think they were pushing her to say she suspected he was secretly gay. It didn't seem to me that she had suspected it before this information came out, not that this is dispositive, of course.

That is what I initially thought as well, but I believe he would have needed to visit the bar less for that particular reason. He also drank alcohol which is Haram (forbiden) for Muslims, so if he was so practicing the religion he would not be doing that. I also know what his father thought of homosexuals (The god created a man and a woman fable, we are so used to hear from all Religions ...But only god can judge the choice of these people). Imagine if this to become terrorist has to be brought up in this environment since a kid, then he has to deal with his own sexuality at puberty?.....and the same people that brought him to this world and nurtured could only be known to believe this?..........



The most vociferous anti gay religious leader in Malta is a '''converted''' gay ballerina to become a Pastor, who had become brainwashed in Texas when he joined the Evangelists. Shooting innocent people is a very hideous crime no doubt, but continuous verbal violence comes a close second. Now how can psychology explain this?

It figures that Pastor Manche brought his gay conversion Evangelist ideas from the United States where, he tells us, he was a professional ballet dancer until he “saw God” (“He spoke to me, but I did not see his face”). Is professional ballet dancer here a cipher for homosexual?

http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2011/05/queer-no-more/

I wonder if he was on anti-psychotic meds, and if he had been prescribed them, whether he was taking them. From what the wife was saying, there was an abrupt change in him a few months after she married him, with him displaying a lot of anger and physically abusing her.

This reminds me of Andreas Lubitz who deliberately crashed a German wings plane in the mountains killing 150 people. Mateens ex wife in another interview did mention that he was bi polar.

 

[Athiudisc]

He also drank alcohol which is Haram (forbiden) for Muslims, so if he was so practicing the religion he would not be doing that.

No true Scotsman? The 9/11 attackers weren't adverse to alcohol, either. Pederasty is hardly unknown in Muslim cultures, despite it being haram, as another example.