Yorkie
Regular Member
- Messages
- 264
- Reaction score
- 2
- Points
- 0
- Ethnic group
- English with some recent Norwegian and more distant Huguenot, and dashes from the 'Celtic Fringe'.
Yes, of course could be right that since my MDKA is from Ireland he could have an Old Irish origin. I do have pedigrees, starting with Gerald Cambrensis writings, but they conflict with each other and must be seen as unreliable. As you are aware, Yorkie, I think almost any pedigree reaching back a 1000 years is subject to the high opportunity for NPEs.
However, I think the odds of an Old Irish origin for my Y lineage prior to the Cambro-Norman Invasion are diminished with by the nature by Y DNA triangulations. This is the benefit of deep ancestral testing.
My only confirmed Irish matches are from two surname groups, the Barrett's and other people with Walsh variants (Welsh/Welch.) As I mentioned, this aligns with the family story that the Barrett and Walsh were brothers in the Cambro-Norman forces and descended from the Lords of Glamorganshire. Of course the name Walsh/Welsh/Welch is also indicative of Wales origin.
The triangulation evidence is that the majority of my matches are from Wales, including citizens of South Wales. Most intriguing thing to me is the Morgan family that I'm related that reside in Monmouthsire, which is adjacent to Glamorgan. This whole little group of Barrett's, Walsh's, Morgans is estimated by Nordtvedt's TMRCA tool to be about a 1000 years old so the geographic break up of the group did not happen much prior to that if at all.
I'm not trying to say this indicates a Norman Y lineage. That's hard to pin down anyway. My guess is we have a Welsh paternal lineage. I just think the alignment of the DNA evidence, family history and surnames seems to be in alignment for a migration with the Cambro-Norman Invasion. That does not prove a high or noble origin or prove anything for that matter. This is just my guess as to the odds based on the specifics of my situation.
Yes, of course, any pedigree has the possibility of a ratio of NPEs, and they all involve a leap of faith in the sense of ancestral fidelities. However, in your case, all you appear to possess is the famous pedigree compiled by Cambrensis. That in itself proves nothing either way because there is no connection to your Walsh family going back clearly, generation by generation. I might as well call Harald Hardrada a 'dear relative' because I have some recent Norwegian ancestry.
What you need is a generation by generation pedigree leading from the present back to Strongbow's times and they are as rare as hens' teeth in Ireland. Fortunately, in England there exist some pedigrees [one of my maternal lines] that can be tied up with family tree detective work as 'the other half of the jigsaw'. I am able to trace one line of mine back to Yorkshire in the late 1500s, and then with the aid of a pedigree by George Ormerod, to continue the line through, generation by generation, to some Norman-descended landed families in the east Cheshire [De Legh, Del Sherd, De Clayton etc] of the 1200s. Of course, NPEs may lurk there, but at least one can follow the line back, generation by generation. Using a pedigree by Gerald Cambrensis that doesn't lead anywhere seems a waste of time .
Is there any evidence that your Irish Walshes ever owned land? That seems a good place to start for a clue.