Question What did Paleo Balkan people look like?

[norbert]

I expected the identity-obsessed Albanian extremist to be triggered but let's clarify a couple of things: I'm not a Serb nor do I wish to be one. I also do not support any Slavic autochtonous ideas, whatever the heck that might be. And I certainly never claimed that the South Slavs look like Illyrians. What I said, however, is that you can find that typically Dinaric phenotype among South Slavs, most notably in areas like Dalmatia and Herzegovina. The Western Balkans wasn't only inhabitated by the Illyrians. They were assimilated by the incoming Slavs, so it is hard to reconstruct their exact phenotype from the looks of present-day South Slavs. But to claim that the Albanians are representative of the Illyrians or even a meta-phenotype of Paleo-Balkanians borders on arrogance and stupidity. It is equally ignorant to assign certain haplogroups to Albanians exclusively. The Albanians are nothing but left-overs that eluded full romanisation and later slavicisation south of the Danube in the Serbian-Bulgarian-Romanian border region. A people that did not live in the areas identified with Illyrians proper. We don't even know who the Illyrians were. Just because some graves were find on the territory of the Roman province of Illyria, doesn't mean the people buried in them were ethnic Illyrians. We don't know anything about the self-identification of the people buried in those graves or what language(s) they spoke.

To sum it all up, when you ask what Paleo-Balkanic people looked like, you have to first ask where in the Balkans. In the Western Balkans you would have found a more "Bell Beaker-shifted" people or peoples that certainly looked different from those in the South Balkans, the area where the Albanians belong. The Albanians are definitely more Paleo-Balkanic than South Slavs but to claim that they are the archetypical Paleo-Balkanians is simply insupportable.

 

[mount123]

Does Illyrian Y DNA haplogroup make you Illyrian?
I have supposedly Slavic haplogroup and my genetic distance is not even close to average Bulgarian, let alone Serb or Bosnian

Haplogroups track human male migrations thanks to DNA sequencing and IBD sharing I for instance know that I paternally descend from the Illyrians of the Paleo-Western Balkans. Those Slavs i.e. Bosnian Serbs, Croats, Muslim Serbs (Bosniaks) from Bosnia don't. So yes it is absolute pseudo-scientific BS to claim they look like a people they are not. This is called cultural and historic appropriation

You don't have a "supposedly Slavic" Y-DNA YOU HAVE a Slavic Y-DNA. You're a Slav living in North Macedonia near Albanians and you're really suprised you have Albanian admixture? Did you actually realize that haplogroup H12a is the most common Pan-Albanian maternal DNA?

 

[mount123]

I expected the identity-obsessed Albanian extremist to be triggered but let's clarify a couple of things: I'm not a Serb nor do I wish to be one. The Albanians are nothing but left-overs that eluded full romanisation and later slavicisation south of the Danube in the Serbian-Bulgarian-Romanian border region. A people that did not live in the areas identified with Illyrians proper. We don't even know who the Illyrians were. Just because some graves were find on the territory of the Roman province of Illyria, doesn't mean the people buried in them were ethnic Illyrians. We don't know anything about the self-identification of the people buried in those graves or what language(s) they spoke.

@Polska Apparently the near n=200 approaching J2b-L283 aDNA samples according to "norbert" are exclusively Roman era samples and we don't know anything about the archeology of the samples in question Sorry for the tag but I remembered your rebuttal of his usual pseudoscientific rambling in the J2b-L283 thread not so far ago. Totally owned him there.

 

[Who Cares?]

Haplogroups track human male migrations thanks to DNA sequencing and IBD sharing I for instance know that I paternally descend from the Illyrians of the Paleo-Western Balkans. Those Slavs i.e. Bosnian Serbs, Croats, Muslim Serbs (Bosniaks) from Bosnia don't. So yes it is absolute pseudo-scientific BS to claim they look like a people they are not. This is called cultural and historic appropriation

You don't have a "supposedly Slavic" Y-DNA YOU HAVE a Slavic Y-DNA. You're a Slav living in North Macedonia near Albanians and you're really suprised you have Albanian admixture? Did you actually realize that haplogroup H12a is the most common Pan-Albanian maternal DNA?

Yes, I knew about H12a and Albanians. I said supposedly because as far as I know no early Slavic I-Z17855 was found. That would also mean that I have just like 20-25% Balto-Slavic ancestry, which is kind of surprisingly low. Or it means that the non-Slavs living there were just culturally assimilated.

 

[Hioloi]

Yes, I knew about H12a and Albanians. I said supposedly because as far as I know no early Slavic I-Z17855 was found. That would also mean that I have just like 20-25% Balto-Slavic ancestry, which is kind of surprisingly low. Or it means that the non-Slavs living there were just culturally assimilated.

Tbh your slavic is very low. I thought you may be one of those assimilated Orthodox Albanians from Macedonia. Some Albanians in Macedonia, who are Orthodox, are assimilating into the "North Macedonian" culture and identity.

Or a Sanxhaklija. Some Sanxhaklija are just like Ghegs.

But you should know better than me anyway. Your slavic is like half of what the Serbian average is. Which is interesting.

 

[norbert]

@Polska Apparently the near n=200 approaching J2b-L283 aDNA samples according to "norbert" are exclusively Roman era samples and we don't know anything about the archeology of the samples in question Sorry for the tag but I remembered your rebuttal of his usual pseudoscientific rambling in the J2b-L283 thread not so far ago. Totally owned him there.

I'm sorry but you are a very disturbed person. You need to learn how to communicate with people you disagree with. I have zero interest in your identity issues and paranoia.

 

[Who Cares?]

Tbh your slavic is very low. I thought you may be one of those assimilated Orthodox Albanians from Macedonia. Some Albanians in Macedonia, who are Orthodox, are assimilating into the "North Macedonian" culture and identity.

Or a Sanxhaklija. Some Sanxhaklija are just like Ghegs.

But you should know better than me anyway. Your slavic is like half of what the Serbian average is. Which is interesting.

I don't know for every side of my family, but for my direct paternal lineage I have almost up to mid 1700's, and all were self declared as Slavs.

 

[Hioloi]

Romanians and Bulgarians are primarily Slavic in autosomal, but they do have Thracian, and i do believe Bulgarians have slightly more, even on uniparental where E-V13 is more prominent in Bulgaria.

You have tomb paintings of Thracians in Alexandrovo mound.

This one looks exotic i would say, probably quite a lot of Aegean-Anatolian autosomal.

These ones were most likely more common

Also, looking at King Seuthes III sculpture, he had quite a Dinaric look.

The statue looks like him

 

[Dalmat]

Ancestral Whispers

www.ancestralwhispers.org

 

[MandM]

The statue looks like him

Just the nose! I look more like the statue then him

 

[Hioloi]

Just the nose! I look more like the statue then him
View attachment 15999

Nah, you look like a Bulgar, the Turkic type, the statue clearly resembles the Albanian man.

His face is way longer than yours, his cheekbones are also way more prominent, his eyes are bigger, the nose is different.

You look like Mehmed the Conqeror lol.

 

[MandM]

Nah, you look like a Bulgar, the Turkic type, the statue clearly resembles the Albanian man.

His face is way longer than yours, his cheekbones are also way more prominent, his eyes are bigger, the nose is different.

You look like Mehmed the Conqeror lol.

If the Albanian guy would have a beard he would look more like mehmed and he looks more like Turk then me, and i didint say i look like the statue, i said i looke more then the pic you posted, am classified as dinaro-med so keep your wet dreams about Bulgar Turkic use a real pic instead of old painting, they lack details of facial features

 

[Hioloi]

If the Albanian guy would have a beard he would look more like mehmed and he looks more like Turk then me, and i didint say i look like the statue, i said i looke more then the pic you posted, am classified as dinaro-med so keep your wet dreams about Bulgar Turkic use a real pic instead of old painting, they lack details of facial features

No lol. You don't resemble the Albanian man, who looks clearly Balkanic, stop coping dude, I'm a stranger telling you you look nothing like this.

You look like a Turkic person, no med, bruh. How do people convince themselves they look like Balkanics when they look like Mehmed the conqueror .

It's like Pakistanis thinking they pass as Italian.

 

[MandM]

No lol. You don't resemble the Albanian man, who looks clearly Balkanic, stop coping dude, I'm a stranger telling you you look nothing like this.

You look like a Turkic person, no med, bruh. How do people convince themselves they look like Balkanics when they look like Mehmed the conqueror .

It's like Pakistanis thinking they pass as Italian.

Well then i can see that you are quite delusional, never said i looken like the Albanian, i said i looken MORE like Seuthes then the Albanian guy you posted, but we can end it here were we can agree to disagree

 

[Who Cares?]

No lol. You don't resemble the Albanian man, who looks clearly Balkanic, stop coping dude, I'm a stranger telling you you look nothing like this.

You look like a Turkic person, no med, bruh. How do people convince themselves they look like Balkanics when they look like Mehmed the conqueror .

It's like Pakistanis thinking they pass as Italian.

I think he can pass in eastern Balkans.

 

[Hioloi]

Well then i can see that you are quite delusional, never said i looken like the Albanian, i said i looken MORE like Seuthes then the Albanian guy you posted, but we can end it here were we can agree to disagree

Nice projection. You don't look like him. The Albanian does. End of the story.

 

[MandM]

I think he can pass in eastern Balkans.

I am Romanian so hopefully i can at least pass there hehe