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Immigration What do you think about illegal immigrants?

those who are coming from Idlib these days are well admixed with terrorists, war ciminals and their family who will swear when they arrive in Europe that they were helping people and were working in hospitals

it is with this kind of people Erdogan has allied himself with and now he asks NATO to help him
 
by the new laws for illegal immigration, and NGOs
it is illegal to help disembark an immigrant or a refuggee,
by the 480 NGOs only 15 pass and about 50 had the qualification,
NGO from rest Europe, with out asking permission to act from Greek state, and declare their personel and supply them the official recognition card,
face justice as trafficker,
that law has send back, or stop action of about 3500 activist and trafficker, with under a flag of an NGO, sometimes ghost one, earn money turning help to a job.

in the bellow video if they disembark they face jail till 3.5 years,
the one who helps them diseembark will face jail for helping a criminal tresspassing about 1.5 year, or at least 3.5 if considered trafficker.

The maritime ,law.
If those in boat. sink their boat, making as accident etc, and disembark
they will not face jail, but violent and forced return either to the country they started the voyage (if documented by local harbor authorities, tickets etc) or back according to country their pappers exist.
A law and a voyage cost aproved by EU law and economics.
if someone gathers them before drawing in open sea, HE IS OBLIGED TO CALL COASTQUARD TO RECEIVE THEM,
IT IS FORBIDEN TO DISEMBARK WITH OUT KNOWLEDGE OF COATQUARD, ELSE YOU ARE TRAFFICKER.
that may face jail according the number, to more than 25 years.
So yes you save them from drowning, good act, but must inform the local authorities as long as they are on board, and not disembark before inform local Authorities,.and follow their orders.
It is not wise, and inhuman to leave someone drown cause he is a refuggee or an immigrant,
but you can't make trafficking under the threat of drown in open sea.

B.

the video is in Greek and Turkish,
at min 0:55 is a trafficker calling people to go to Aegean shores of Turkey, and buy his boats for 7 000 E which can carry 35 people to Greece,
BUT what he hides,
by new EU law these people may not return to Turkey, but back to Afganistan or Somalia as already happened with more than 15 000 people according EU program.
They will face illegal entry accusation which might lead them to jail and wait 3,5 years till their return to Central Asia or Africa,
they also might face at 21 to 70 days quarantine isolation.
wait for more than one year in a camp so FRONTEX classify them
etc etc.

Things are not like it was at 2015-2016 or before.
EUROPEAN UNION HAS LAWS,
AND AS EVERY EUROPEAN MUST RESPECT EU LAWS, SAME WAY MUST THE IMMIGRANT TOO.
IF YOU DO NOT RESPECT EU LAWS, YOU HAVE NO RIGHT UPON EU CITIZENSHIP CULTURE ETC

THE ONES WHO LISTEN ERDOGAN AND BELIEVE BOARDERS ARE OPENED, LET THEM STAY WITH ERDOGAN.
THE ONES WHO LISTEN EU AND BELIEVE BOARDERS ARE NOT OPEN, MAYBE ARE CLOSE TO EU reality.

choose
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=36&v=FGrM1HG-Wzs&feature=emb_logo
 
Palermo Trapani said:
American is not an ethnicity. Even Native American Indians, came over during the Ice age across the straights, they were from East Siberia if I remember correctly. So, no I am an American of Sicilian-Italian ancestry. My Nationality is American. My Ethnicity is Italian. I am in my 50's and I have never denied my ethnicity for in my view to do so would 1) Not recognize what I am ethnic wise, and the DNA clearly is consistent with my ancestry, and 2) it would disrespect and dishonor, again, in my view, the Great Grandparents and in the case of my Mothers Father, my Grandfather, who all immigrated from Sicily during the period 1890 to 1904, etc. I was one of those kids who always liked listening to my Grandparents and Great-Uncles and Aunts talk and tell stories. They thought of themselves as Sicilian and Italian (both). With respect to Turkey, you are correct, there is some historic connection partially to Europe via the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantine-Constantinople). Culturally though, some are in fact European. Many that have immigrated to the USA are in fact very comfortable in European or Western Culture.
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i know that american is not an ethnicity. we already have a similar discussion in the thread about the life of german turks in germany. it's probably a reason why immigrants are faster assimilated in america as americans. because it is clear for everyone that the american identity is seperated from ethnicity. why shouldn't this be possible in europe and why should the ethnicity continue to play a role here? the turkish migrants in america are obviously able to adapt just like many turkish migrants here in europe. just like many indians, syrians, egyptians, maroccans, chinese.

Palermo Trapani said:
So again yes, I am a citizen of the USA. I respect all the laws of the USA and believe the Constitutional Republican form of government that the Ancestors of England, in this case, laid out here, is the best form of Government on Earth. So Nationality wise, American. The foundation for the USA was built before my ancestors got here. All of these modern leftist here in the USA with their cultural marxism, Identity politics and PC speech codes, built nothing here. They want to destroy what other people built and laid down for them. Now Not saying this country was perfect, but the principles it laid down in the Constitution are. So to repeat, I am an American citizen, but my ethnicity is Sicilian-Italian, thus my "sangue, cuore e anima" are Sicilian-Italian. I would also add Catholic to that but this is not part of the Religion/Philosophy forum so I will stop on that point there. The migrants who move from one European country to the other have at their core, a common cultural heritage at some level that is shared across national borders, even though each country has its own ethnic characteristics. But that could be said in East Asia, Korea, China, Mongolia, or South East Asia (Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos) or Asian-Sub Continent (India, Bangladesh, Pakistan,).
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so it's about culture now? what are we even talking about? first it was about ethnicity now it's culture? what is it? this happens way too often in discussions like these. first people say they don't want other ethnicities like "brown skinned arabs" in their countries. then when you ask why it's suddendly about culture and because they are muslim.
 
the face of the millions immigrants that Erdogan is 'promising to Europe'

metanasteftiko15.jpg



It seems that Erdogan played his last card,
By the end of Summer, Sultan might be 'over'
the sooner the better, cause it may brink down and injure Turkey, which is not the wanted future,

Btw the way the 73 that passed yesterday are all arrested, and convicted,
Those who listen to Erdogan and cut the fench and enter illegally face the worst penalty they could imagine,
Jail for 3.5 years for illegal passing, and return NOT TO TURKEY BUT AFGANISTAN AND SOMALIA ,
https://www.protothema.gr/greece/ar...a-paranomi-eisodo-stin-ellada/?utm_source=rss

Warning via megaphones to the immigrants that boarders are not open.

[video=youtube;lfFKAL6kk6Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=7&v=lfFKAL6kk6Q[/video]
 
Ailchu said:
i know that american is not an ethnicity. we already have a similar discussion in the thread about the life of german turks in germany. it's probably a reason why immigrants are faster assimilated in america as americans. because it is clear for everyone that the american identity is seperated from ethnicity. why shouldn't this be possible in europe and why should the ethnicity continue to play a role here? the turkish migrants in america are obviously able to adapt just like many turkish migrants here in europe. just like many indians, syrians, egyptians, maroccans, chinese.



so it's about culture now? what are we even talking about? first it was about ethnicity now it's culture? what is it? this happens way too often in discussions like these. first people say they don't want other ethnicities like "brown skinned arabs" in their countries. then when you ask why it's suddendly about culture and because they are muslim.
Click to expand...

Ok, Why is it that no Europeans ever immigrated to a predominantly Muslim country. So I will be 100% honest, I would never want to live in a country that is majority Muslim. I see no such country where people who are not Muslim are afforded the same rights as the Muslim majority. Why should Europe not be like America, precisely because it is not like America. You can't undue via EU fiat, UN Commissions, etc, thousands and thousands of years of Evolution and civilization. It is both ethnicity and culture. Again, do you see the UN and its various agencies, EU buerecrats telling other countries they have to accept immigrants. The 2nd an 3rd Largest economies in the world are China and Japan. India is now 5th. So stop and think about that, 3 of the 5 largest Economies in the world are in Asia and I don't see the UN telling those countries, Diversity and changing your cultural traditions with migrants from other parts of the world is something they should do. Why is it only Europe is told it must accept Migrants from all over the world. Why don't other Muslim countries take in their fellow Muslim believers. Again, in my view, more Marxist self-Hating Europeans who have lost the will to defend the Civilization that was handed on to them from previous generations.

So again, I will support Trump in 2020 first and foremost for his willingness to address illegal immigration in the USA and I will hope parties like Brothers of Italy (Meloni and Salvini's party) win the next round of elections in Italy and stop illegal immigration there.
 
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Palermo Trapani said:
Ok, Why is it that no Europeans ever immigrated to a predominantly Muslim country. So I will be 100% honest, I would never want to live in a country that is majority Muslim. I see no such country where people who are not Muslim are afforded the same rights as the Muslim majority. Why should not Europe be like America, precisely because it is not like America. You can't undue via EU fiat, UN Commissions, etc, thousands and thousands of years of Evolution and civilization. It is both ethnicity and culture. Again, do you see the UN and its various agencies, EU buerecrats telling other countries they have to accept immigrants. The 2nd an 3rd Largest economies in the world are China and Japan. India is now 5th. So stop and think about that, 3 of the 5 largest Economies in the world are in Asia and I don't see the UN telling those countries, Diversity and changing your cultural traditions with migrants from other parts of the world is something they should do. Why is it only Europe is told it must accept Migrants from all over the world. Why don't other Muslim countries take in their fellow Muslim believers. Again, in my view, more Marxist self-Hating Europeans who have lost the will to defend the Civilization that was handed on to them from previous generations.

So again, I will support Trump in 2020 first and foremost for his willingness to address illegal immigration in the USA and I will hope parties like Brothers of Italy (Meloni and Salvini's party) win the next round of elections in Italy and stop illegal immigration there.
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it's about ethnicity and culture? please explain? christians from near east who are ethnically the same as the surrounding muslims should not be allowed to enter? albanian muslims should not be allowed to enter christian countries?
or what do you mean? you mean if the germans want to protect their culture they need to kick out those germans with turkish background and everyone who isn't ethnically german even if they are culturally german?
thousands and thousands of years of evolution and civilization? that might be true in near east but not in europe, certainly not in northern europe where "civilization" startet relatively late compared to the near east, north africa or asia. those people are far from uncivilized and they can do as good in western cultures as any other western person.
 
Ailchu said:
it's about ethnicity and culture? please explain? christians from near east who are ethnically the same as the surrounding muslims should not be allowed to enter? albanian muslims should not be allowed to enter christian countries?
or what do you mean? you mean if the germans want to protect their culture they need to kick out those germans with turkish background and everyone who isn't ethnically german even if they are culturally german?
thousands and thousands of years of evolution and civilization? that might be true in near east but not in europe, certainly not in northern europe where "civilization" startet relatively late compared to the near east, north africa or asia. those people are far from uncivilized and they can do as good in western cultures as any other western person.
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2 questions,

1. which is the ethnicity and culture that your gran-gran-gran---dad bequathed to you,
and which is the ethnicity and culture your dad bequathed to you?

2. do you really believe what you say?

3. USA was build by settlers and immigrants, Today is mosaic of everything in the planet, maybe is No1 in planet.
Why USA sends you back and tells you to participate to the VISA LOTTERY?
 
Ailchu: I have already explained it to you. If tomorrow for example 30 million Chinese migrants moved to Italy. Is is the same country culturally? I am not against immigration to the US. But what has been going on the last 20-30 years here in the USA and Europe, Australia as well is not immigration . People crashing the border and just being invited in without a legal process to to determine who they are, background checks for crime or ideology that is inconsistent with living in a modern country with a Constitution and democratic elections, is a country that is on a suicide mission.

Does Ms. Merkel know anything about who those 1 million refugees that she let in a few years back? Does anyone know who they are. How many are supporters of terrorist groups? vs. How many were people who were standing up against the terrorist. As for illegal immigrants, I think those that committed crimes should be deported, those that lied on their immigration forms (In the USA that is a felony and can result in deportation, even if the person became a naturalized citizen), and illegal immigrants should be granted citizenship nor should their children be given birthright citizenship. The children could once they are an adult go through the standard immigration process that law abiding immigrants did and "what My ancestors did" All of my ancestors got on legal ports of departure (in my case, the Port of Palermo), had their paperwork as to who they were and entered legal ports of Entry here in the USA. I have "all of the Ship manifest for all of my Great Grandparents that had to be given to USA Immigration officials detailing every Man, Woman and Child, age, and whether the bought their ticket or not)

Immigration to me is where someone gets an entry VISA or Student Visa to a Host country. Next, they get a permit for Legal Residence to work here legally, (In the USA these are H Visas I believe), then you can apply for Green Card (which I think gives the immigrant legal permanent residence status) and then the immigrant goes through the process of becoming a citizen of the country. Throughout that process, if the person commits a crime, then they are not eligible for citizenship, if they lied on their Immigration forms, that is a Felony, not eligible. So what has been going on in Europe with Migrants crashing the border is in my view "not immigration" it is the product of a leftist ideologues (UN, EU, NGOs, leftist Media and Academics,) who are trying to change Europe as we know it.

And for the record, I am well aware civilization did not start in Northern Europe. I have had my share of lets say spirited discussions with the Nordicist types over the years. Ancient Levant, Persia, Anatolia, then Greece and Rome,
 
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Yetos said:
2 questions,

1. which is the ethnicity and culture that your gran-gran-gran---dad bequathed to you,
and which is the ethnicity and culture your dad bequathed to you?

2. do you really believe what you say?

3. USA was build by settlers and immigrants, Today is mosaic of everything in the planet, maybe is No1 in planet.
Why USA sends you back and tells you to participate to the VISA LOTTERY?
Click to expand...

1. why does that matter? i'm ethnically not like my grandfathers anymore. i've also more cultural similarities with the chinese friend back in school or the swiss/turkish collegue from work than with my grandparents.
2. yes i do believe what i say based on personal experience. kurdish people or iranians but also indians i've met for example are generally really nice and smart people. i also do think that the european national states need to be more selective, but it's just bullshit to think that ethnicity should play any role here. it just makes no sense and in the end it just ends with nazism and fascism again.
 
Ailchu: This notion of anyone who wants to control immigration is labeled at best "xenophobe" or on the worst case "Nazi/Facist" is exactly the same thing here in the USA. Rather than debate what is immigration vs. illegal immigration, what is the right of the Nation State to ensure the immigrants that are being admitted are those who can be easily assimilated vs. those who will likely never be assimilated, the modern left immediately goes with the terms you used (Leftwing Media, Academe etc). The last President in this country that I can say I was positively for was Ronald Reagan. In every election since, it is more Who I have been against. Today we have someone praising Fidel Castro running? Why does nobody scream "Communist" and remember what the likes of Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, etc, etc, which is and was just as bad is Nazism.

So what is it you are exactly for. Uncontrolled immigration to Europe.
 
Ailchu said:
1. why does that matter? i'm ethnically not like my grandfathers anymore. i've also more cultural similarities with the chinese friend back in school or the swiss/turkish collegue from work than with my grandparents.
2. yes i do believe what i say based on personal experience. kurdish people or iranians but also indians i've met for example are generally really nice and smart people. i also do think that the european national states need to be more selective, but it's just bullshit to think that ethnicity should play any role here. it just makes no sense and in the end it just ends with nazism and fascism again.
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It matters a lot.
cause the ethnicity and culture of your grand-grand...father, might be a civilized mesopotamian of 1000 BC but surely you act and consider good today that you must act as a ... German ? a Swiss? an Italian?
offcourse your father ethnicity, that is the bigger effect fracture, do you live and think as a German in Germany? (your flag) as second or third immigrant generation? or you still act and think as another?
if your chinese friend, eats a pagolin or a bat infront you, or a dog, how you would act?

on the other hand Look at Ameridians and 'NATIVE Americans' they become minority in their ex 'own lands'

something tells me that you bough to corporation, and not the commonality and state,

MY SUGGESTION IS TO COME TO GREECE, AND SIGN FOR NEED OF WORKERS, AND GUARANTEE THEM Shelter YOUR HOUSE, AND TAKE 2-3 IN YOUR ROOM,
WHY YOU DON'T JUST DO IT? Since you believe so?


Until you decide to take 2-3 from Evros river, to your house, until they get citizenship,
watch the bellow video, and UNDERSTAND WHAT IS TRAFFICKING.
from your side is the Greek island, from screen side is the Turkey coast. interesting MIN 0:46
AND THE QUESTION IS would trust to import your house such ?

you try days to accuse us as Xenophobicous or Nazi etc etc,
WHAT IS YOUR OPINION ABOUT TRAFFICKING?, and what is your opinion about state of law?


in Greece we expect the 3 next days 3 waves of about 150-300 000 from sea,
WILL YOU DONATE? FOR THEIR FOOD, SHELTER, MEDICINES, SCHOOLS,ETC
OR YOU EXPECT GREEK PEOPLE? TO PAY MORE TAXES AND MAKE MORE SACRI​FICES after a 10 years economical crisis?

and the finally question,
do you think is wise to allow them pass to Europe?
look from where they leave and what they Hail!!!!


They listen to Erdogan more than EU police,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w04uqt0mAk4
in another EU country we might had thousands dead.


 
 
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ESHU2aKWAAI1TUA
 
Yetos said:
Click to expand...

i act as myself not as a swiss, german or italian.

the chinese friend would never eat a bat or a dog, because he grew up in switzerland and was culturally not chinese anymore.

i don't get the problem. does an indian act "indian" even if he and his parents grew up somewhere in europe?

i agree with you as i already said, that the national states in europe should be more careful. but do you think that ethnicity, phenotype should have any importance? this is what i took from Palermo Trapani's post.

"That at least is my view and the view of Douglas Murray in his book the "Death of Europe". So the question is does Europe want to survive as Europe? I would like to think there will still be people looking like me at least in Italy, I am sure the English want to have people looking like them in England, same for the Polish, same for everybody all over the world. Again, to borrow from Douglas Murray, every other ethnic group has the right to call somewhere its ancestral home and protect their ethnic, cultural, linguistic, traditions except Europe thus making the rest of the world for native ethnic groups to that part of the world but Europe is for everyone. "

do you think the germans should call germany or their ancestral home and start to protect their ethnicity because they want that the germans continue to look german!? do you think that german turks can never be truly german?
maybe also write your opinion here
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/39569-The-Lives-of-German-Turks

"in Greece we expect the 3 next days 3 waves of about 150-300 000 from sea,
WILL YOU DONATE? FOR THEIR FOOD, SHELTER, MEDICINES, SCHOOLS,ETC
OR YOU EXPECT GREEK PEOPLE? TO PAY MORE TAXES AND MAKE MORE SACRI​FICES after a 10 years economical crisis?"

i expect that most of those who manage to get on land will leave greece again for western europe. but as already said they should not be allowed to enter. though some exceptions should be possible of course.
would you let them enter if the migrants were officially equally distributed among european countries?
 
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Ailchu said:
i act as myself not as a swiss, german or italian.


i'll expect that most of those who manage to get on land will leave greece again for western europe. but as already said they should not be allowed to enter. though some exceptions should be possible of course.
would you let them enter if the migrants were officially equally distributed among european countries?
Click to expand...


So as you tell us you are a citizen of the World? correct? like G Sorros

First as you have seen are not immigrants, but trained from Daesh kids, most of them were supposed to go to Libya as Erdogan declared
Second Why the DO NOT HEAR EU moblie msg and megaphones, and listen to Erdogan's voice?
Did Germany said open the boarder? Did France or Italy? NO why they all sudenly move after Erdogan's voice, WHO IS THEIR TRUE LEADER?

try to understand it,
Erdogan entered wounded Syria, to setlle all them in Idlib and Haleppo, and gain acces to oils of kazemir,
and to declare it a semi indepent democracy a kind of Turco-Syrian rebublic
he messed up, and ask EU and NATO to enter a war with Russia for his shake, his publicity is falling rapidly.
in Libya he also messed up, I will expand to this. He drop the Turkish Lira very low, he sent to prison tenths of millions accusing them as Gulenists.
his last card is this, to make more Chaos, unstabilizing Greece.
 
Yetos said:
So as you tell us you are a citizen of the World? correct? like G Sorros

First as you have seen are not immigrants, but trained from Daesh kids, most of them were supposed to go to Libya as Erdogan declared
Second Why the DO NOT HEAR EU moblie msg and megaphones, and listen to Erdogan's voice?
Did Germany said open the boarder? Did France or Italy? NO why they all sudenly move after Erdogan's voice, WHO IS THEIR TRUE LEADER?

try to understand it,
Erdogan entered wounded Syria, to setlle all them in Idlib and Haleppo, and gain acces to oils of kazemir,
and to declare it a semi indepent democracy a kind of Turco-Syrian rebublic
he messed up, and ask EU and NATO to enter a war with Russia for his shake, his publicity is falling rapidly.
in Libya he also messed up, I will expand to this. He drop the Turkish Lira very low, he sent to prison tenths of millions accusing them as Gulenists.
his last card is this, to make more Chaos, unstabilizing Greece.
Click to expand...

Yetos: The US was the driving force for the creation of NATO after WW2 to deal with the Spread of Communism but mostly to deal with the Communist Soviet Union. The USSR no longer exists so while I support NATO in principle, it needs to be reformatted to deal with the treats today, the largest one coming from terrorism in the Middle East. Turkey's invasion into Syria led some in the USA to ask whether Turkey could and should be kicked out of the NATO? Given Erdogan's have consequences relative to dealing with terroist in the region and its impact on Europe via Him letting migrants cross Turkey, vs. sending them back, into Europe, I have come to think the USA and European countries tired of Erdogan's behavior should kick Turkey out. The Cold War is over. Isolate Turkey and thus his behavior of letting migrants into Europe can be then viewed as an act that threatens the national interest of other countries and their National security. Now at this point kicking them out would and could cause more problems, but lets all be honest, Turkey is does not act like and ally to the USA nor Europe. The first article is from the United States Army Stars and Stripes. The 2nd article is from the American Conservative and the 3rd is from the National Review (Conservative Magazine, founded by the late, and my opinion, great W.F. Buckley) and 4th one is from the Atlantic, which is a liberal American newspaper.

https://www.stripes.com/news/europe/kick-turkey-out-of-nato-it-wouldn-t-be-easy-1.602661

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/time-to-kick-the-islamizing-turkey-out-of-nato/

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/11/turkey-nato-shifting-world/


https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/10/turkey-and-nato-troubled-relationship/599890/

Yes there are still some in the US foreign policy establishment who see Turkey given its geography and its air base as so important that the US puts up with Erdogan's nonsense. However, more and more people here are asking the question why is the US allied with Turkey's Erdogan.
 
Yetos said:
ESGhr9iWsAAWDMH



ESHU2aKWAAI1TUA
Click to expand...

Erdogan is playing a dishonest game with the desperation of these people, but he is not responsible for the presence of these emigrants. Number one man responsible is Putin who is bombing Syrian cities indiscriminately, and Eu is not punishing him for this tragedy. Without Putin Asad would have long been dead and this people would be home.
Also among these emigrants are many from North Africa and Asia where inept and corrupt governments have failed to give people hope in their country. If huge gaps in development of the world continue illegal immigration will continue until Europe is saturated
 
Ailchu said:
according to Stelios Petsas the death of this man is fake news. so what exactly is true about this video?
Click to expand...

the war scream,
 
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