Immigration What do you think about illegal immigrants?

[Palermo Trapani]

they don't suffer for it, and i don't think they should, but the point is that it's exactly the opposite, their name is beneficial for them. and brothers of italy knows and uses this to catch votes. look at the poster it is literally just the name "Mussolini". his first name doesn't even matter.

No I read his name quite well. Many of Salvini's posters had just his last name on it. I don't see any problem with his poster. His name is Mussolini, so maybe he is just saying that is my name, I will not run from my name nor should modern Italians today have to apologize for voting for me because my name is Mussolini. I can assure you as an American who spent 3 weeks in Italy last summer, Sicily and Rome, that I don't feel the national security of the USA is threatened by Meloni and Salvini's fratelli di Italia party. In addition, I doubt the 4 countries that share a land border with Italy (Slovenia, Austria, France and Switzerland) feel there national security is threatened by Fratelli di Italia.

As I stated before, I am in my 50's and have seen every President (Republican) since President Reagan labelled a fascist by the American left wing. The Brothers of Italy are a conservative party and again in my following politics in the USA and across the pond in Europe, every traditional conservative in the USA and Europe has been branded a fascist by the American and European Left. Even Pope John Paul the 2 was called by the marxist of Europe as a "Nationalist and Right wing" because he wanted Poland to reaffirm its cultural heritage and traditions and do away with Communism. Did that make him a fascist? For the record, while the European and American Left called President Reagan and PM Thatcher "fascist" I have no evidence that the late Pope was called such. But the far left hated him as much as Reagan and Thatcher. It is just what the Left here and there do. As I alluded to, Ms. Thatcher in the UK was characterized the same way Mr. Reagan was here in the USA, a fascist. So in Italy, the Fratelli di Italia being labelled as such is not surprising and in fact entirely predictable.

 

[Twilight]

noone treats guests bad because they'll leave again. then nothing needs to be "conserved".

but what happens if you want to settle down for whatever reason, maybe you have to flee, maybe you found work or maybe you just fell in love, and you are seen as a threat for the ethnicity? will they implement apartheid? will they send you out of the country or will they just eliminate you if they don't know where to place you?

illegal or legal makes no difference in that case.

No one is calling folks illegal based on your race. If you have your immigrant paperwork, you got your visa and token the citizenship test, you are good to go.

 

[Yetos]

The beast does not stop here.
after all these about millions Syrrians refuggees
who sudenly proved from elsewhere, and Turkish Speaking,
After emptying the prisons in order to send the convicted to Europe,
After the lies about dead people etc etc,
After the organised attacks against boarders,
The Beast (Erdogan) is sending 1000 special forces of Jandarma (Gendarmerie)
in order to stop Greek police from defending the boarders !!!!!!

 

[Alan]

Right now the refugees are used as weapon to force the West into direct conflict with Russia.

 

[Ailchu]

Big difference,

Illegal immigrant has nothing to do with legal immigrant has nothing to do with refuggee.

And the one who supports and organise illegal migration is call Human trafficker or better Human Smuggling

STOP HUMAN SMUGGLING NOW,

it makes no difference if a country's population gets the stupid idea to conserve ethnicity.

do people here not know the difference between culture and ethnicity or what's with this constant avoiding?

also, most refugees are at the beginning "illegal" immigrants. they have to register themselves in the country first to become legal.

No one is calling folks illegal based on your race. If you have your immigrant paperwork, you got your visa and token the citizenship test, you are good to go.

exactly, beeing illegal or legal has nothing to do with ethnicity, that's why it makes no difference if an immigrant is legal or not if the country is ethno-nationalistic.

 

[Ailchu]

So if conserving Culture and ethnicity is nazism, then there are tons of non European countries who do the same thing. You don't think Japan's immigration policy is designed to protect Japanese culture. You don't think South Korea's is. Both of those are very strong modern economies and rather than open their borders to mass immigration, they are using technology and robotics to fill jobs that use to be done by labor precisely because they want to retain their countries unique cultural and ethnic traditions, as they have the right to do. China's economy has now gotten close to the US. Rather than import labor from other countries, they have started putting manufacturing facilities in other parts of the world (they are heavily invested in sub-Saharan Africa) to create supply chains around the world along with developing those economies so in the future those countries will develop and potentially provide another customer base for Chinese goods. What you don't see is China opening its borders to mass migration.

so, do you think the chinese are doing it right? i mean they aren't really nice with their minorities or with their own people. they also don't seem to like legal immigrants.

and concerning Giorgia Meloni, you don't think that it might be a bit problematic to call fascists simple patriots who dream of a strong and free italy without any form of critique?
i bet all the people who were killed by the fascists don't matter. that's why the Brothers of Italy wanted to abolish the commemoration day for the liberation from the nazis and fascists.

 

[Palermo Trapani]

China is hard on those who seem to have potential ties with a religion that is not from China. I will let you figure that one out. So that has more to do with China not wanting situations similar to Afghanistan, which is shares a border with or what has been going on off and on in Russia with Chechnya, etc. So in principle I agree with it, although My Western belief in Due process means in the USA I would rather it be done via the US Constitution which requires due process and conviction in a court of Law where basic Constitutional rights are guaranteed. So yes I agree with China limiting illegal immigration and protecting its borders. I do agree with them cracking down on potential religious extremism in their country. I do not agree with the means to the end which they choose to use. That again goes back to my Western European principles and my Catholic Theological upbringing borrowing from Saint Thomas Aquinas, the ends do not justify the means. Indiscriminately targeting all Uighurs for the actions of some would be wrong.

With respect to legal immigrants, China has the right to limit immigration to their country if they want to. That is their right as sovereign state. Now for the record, I am no fan of China, and to Trump's credit, he is the first president to question this globalist trade system that while promoted as free trade, is not free trade, at least dealing with China. This Russia Russia Russian narrative here is a faint, China has been stealing more US technology and engaged in more cyber hacking of US assets, Technology ,than any other country in the world. My advice to US Leaders, form more alliances with India.

But I digress.

 

[Palermo Trapani]

so, do you think the chinese are doing it right? i mean they aren't really nice with their minorities or with their own people. they also don't seem to like legal immigrants.

and concerning Giorgia Meloni, you don't think that it might be a bit problematic to call fascists simple patriots who dream of a strong and free italy without any form of critique?
i bet all the people who were killed by the fascists don't matter. that's why the Brothers of Italy wanted to abolish the commemoration day for the liberation from the nazis and fascists.

Do all the people killed by Communist not matter? For the record, their body count is greater than the Nazis, whose was far greater than the Fascists. Like I said, I have no use for any totalitarian form of Government. I believe in a Constitutional Republic which as Plato noted a long time ago, is the best form of government to protect the rights of all citizens. I just do not believe, as I have noted, that the Fratelli of Italy is a threat to any country that borders Italy. They are a Conservative, Traditional Italian party. In addition, as I have noted, Former President Reagan, Former UK PM Thatcher were all called fascist, many on the Far left in Europe implied the late Pope John Paul II was a crypto-fascist. Again, I don't know the context of which fascist you are talking about. So yes if you want to critique Meloni's policies, critique them. That is legitimate, but to associate her with Nazis is nonsense and slander (although since she is a public figure, not something that could be held in court) and even the term fascist is incorrect, i.e. Mussolini's version where he foolishly launched and invasion into Libya in the 1930's and I think Ethiopia as well, largely to secure Oil and greater access to the Middle East Oil.

Where has Meloni advocated anything but policies that are internal to the affairs of the Italian state? That is it.

 

[Jovialis]

The podcast I heard about Gabriele D'annunzio was both interesting and informative. Fascism was actually a by-product of his personality, rather than a conscious effort. He was a poet, that was infatuated with Roman and Greek history, and he had a deep connection with the Italian identity. He was considered the greatest Italian poet since Dante, and was extremely popular in Italy. After his participation in WWI he led an army to conqueror the city of Fiume, to facilitate irredentism. He ruled it as a dictator, and attracted extremists from both the Left and Right; including people that began to refer to themselves as Fascist. D'annunzio's men where the first in modern history to implement the Roman Salute, as well as the black uniform, and brandished daggers. He supplied the IRA with weapons to fight against the British. He also had correspondence with Benito Mussolini, who was at the time a socialist. He had a great impact on both Mussolini, and in-turn Hitler. However, in reality, he hated Mussolini for stealing his ideas. He also hated Hitler, and considered Germans to be a "Barbaric, and disgusting race". In fact during WWI he gave impassioned speeches at massive rallies, about how Italy should switch sides and attack Germany. Ironically, his ideas, and actions inadvertently partly gave rise to Nazism.

 

[Yetos]

it makes no difference if a country's population gets the stupid idea to conserve ethnicity.

do people here not know the difference between culture and ethnicity or what's with this constant avoiding?

also, most refugees are at the beginning "illegal" immigrants. they have to register themselves in the country first to become legal.



exactly, beeing illegal or legal has nothing to do with ethnicity, that's why it makes no difference if an immigrant is legal or not if the country is ethno-nationalistic.

Plz Stop with Stupidity,

It is another thing the immigrant
It is another thing the Illegal immigrant
it is another thing the Refuggee
it is another thing the asylum seeker

And it is another thing
HUMAN TRAFFICKING
HUMAN SMUGGLING

understand that,

Immigrants are the 200 000 Greeks which left Greece the times of crisis to elsewhere, From EU to Australia etc
Illegal immigrants are the one who tried to enter USA but returned and wait the lottery.
Refuggees are the ones who seek temporary shelter outside the war zone,
Asylum seekers are personalities with high political or cultural activity, which might are in chase of life,
they can be from bad dictators to priest, to parliamentals to scientists, etc,


Now if for you, citizen of the world, and your friend G Sorros who maybe could sell even his .... for money (if not did)
all are flat and equal, for some are not,

 

[Yetos]

Watch Erdogan, at 7:34
What he did say?
Does he says that he is repeating Ethnic cleansing?

by new Erdogan command ALL JOURNALISTS ARE FORBIDEN IN MIGRANT CAMPS? WHY? are they real migrant camps or training grounds?

a very interesting video is how Turks quide and frighten the migrants
Usage of guns even infront children

https://www.facebook.com/KastanCity/videos/2296461397320598/

https://www.facebook.com/GreeceAndGreekNews/videos/906628589769682/

 

[Ailchu]

Plz Stop with Stupidity,

It is another thing the immigrant
It is another thing the Illegal immigrant
it is another thing the Refuggee
it is another thing the asylum seeker

And it is another thing
HUMAN TRAFFICKING
HUMAN SMUGGLING

understand that,

Immigrants are the 200 000 Greeks which left Greece the times of crisis to elsewhere, From EU to Australia etc
Illegal immigrants are the one who tried to enter USA but returned and wait the lottery.
Refuggees are the ones who seek temporary shelter outside the war zone,
Asylum seekers are personalities with high political or cultural activity, which might are in chase of life,
they can be from bad dictators to priest, to parliamentals to scientists, etc,


Now if for you, citizen of the world, and your friend G Sorros who maybe could sell even his .... for money (if not did)
all are flat and equal, for some are not,

and you please stop with the ignorance. how are those 200'000 greeks different from illegals or asylum seekers when they would try to enter an ethno-nationalist country?

and will those 200'000 greeks return to greece if the crisis is over?

 

[Yetos]

and you please stop with the ignorance. how are those 200'000 greeks different from illegals or asylum seekers when they would try to enter an ethno-nationalist country?

and will those 200'000 greeks return to greece if the crisis is over? will those from syria be able to return to syria in the near future? Dalai Lama also said something similar, refugees should return home. but the people who fled from tibet and their children who maybe never saw tibet and grew up in europe will certainly not return to tibet/china.

Because they moved by officials pappers,
Not like burglars, neither under Erdogan's command,
that is a difference among legal and illegal,

Citizen's of the world, like your ideas,
SUPPORT HUMAN TRAFFICKING
SUPPORT HUMAN SMUGGLING
Eliminate every value of state,
pumb up only their banking accounts, they don't even a house,

you wann go with them? Go
try to enter ilegally or live as migrant to their homeland,
and comeback

 

[Ailchu]

Because they moved by officials pappers,
Not like burglars, neither under Erdogan's command,
that is a difference among legal and illegal,

Citizen's of the world, like your ideas,
SUPPORT HUMAN TRAFFICKING
SUPPORT HUMAN SMUGGLING
Eliminate every value of state,
pumb up only their banking accounts, they don't even a house,

you wann go with them? Go
try to enter ilegally or live as migrant to their homeland,
and comeback

well you still didn't answer my questions.
and why should those greeks be allowed to leave the economic crisis in their country but the syrians should take up weapons and risk getting shot?

 

[bigsnake49]

well you still didn't answer my questions.
and why should those greeks be allowed to leave the economic crisis in their country but the syrians should take up weapons and risk getting shot?

There is legal immigration and illegal immigration. The 200,000 Greeks that left Greece to immigrate to other EU counties are young & highly educated and given the usual pattern of Greeks leaving their country will become very successful in their new country. They will contribute a lot to the social security coffers of their new countries. They will not become a drain on those social security systems. Will they come back after the crisis is over? Hard to say. If there is investment by the more industrialized counties of Northwest Europe yes. If those same industrialized counties continue to see Greece as purely a market for their products they probably won't.

The Greeks that emigrated were highly sought after and had jobs before they moved. They were not unwanted or feared. Big difference!

 

[bicicleur 2]

well you still didn't answer my questions.
and why should those greeks be allowed to leave the economic crisis in their country but the syrians should take up weapons and risk getting shot?

the answer is simple
Greeks are part of the EU, Syria is not
if an economic crisis anywhere in the world would give them the right to move to Europe, Europe should absorb 3-4 billion people, which is just impossible

 

[Ailchu]

look, i know that those 2 groups are not the same. but there are definitly similarities that are overlooked in one case but criticized in the other.

for example, the syrians are young men who should take up weapons and fight in a war and then move back into destroyed cities , the greeks are young people who flee from low salaries but no critique there.

then there was the argument of conserving culture and ethnicity. for the last time, if a country would do that, how exactly are papers going to change your ethnicity?

greeks are part of the EU indeed, but wasn't the free movement of people inside it a big reason for brexit?

 

[bigsnake49]

look, i know that those 2 groups are not the same. but there are definitly similarities that are overlooked in one case but criticized in the other.

for example, the syrians are young men who should take up weapons and fight in a war and then move back into destroyed cities , the greeks are young people who flee from low salaries but no critique there.

then there was the argument of conserving culture and ethnicity. for the last time, if a country would do that, how exactly are papers going to change your ethnicity?

greeks are part of the EU indeed, but wasn't the free movement of people inside it a big reason for brexit?

No, Brexit was due to the fact that Germany accepted a lot of refugees without consulting with either France or Britain. Once those refugees were accepted by Germany they can move around and about. It does not help that the refugees were Muslim and coming in without proper screening as to their radical islam tendencies. In general the Brits were very uncomfortable with the Germans throwing their weight around.
A minor contributor to Brexit was tha fact that a lot of Polish unskilled workers moved to Britain looking for work which depressed wages for unskilled, unemployed locals. Actually Poland is doing pretty well since then and a lot are actually moving back to Poland.

 

[bigsnake49]

The other major fear about the Syrians and the Afganis is that you are importing terrorism.

I have long supported that the major powers in conjunction with the UN should have established safe zones in Syria for the refugees to have moved to. It would have avoided all these refugee crises.

 

[Ailchu]

No, Brexit was due to the fact that Germany accepted a lot of refugees without consulting with either France or Britain. Once those refugees were accepted by Germany they can move around and about. It does not help that the refugees were Muslim and coming in without proper screening as to their radical islam tendencies. In general the Brits were very uncomfortable with the Germans throwing their weight around.
A minor contributor to Brexit was tha fact that a lot of Polish unskilled workers moved to Britain looking for work which depressed wages for unskilled, unemployed locals. Actually Poland is doing pretty well since then and a lot are actually moving back to Poland.

simply not true sry. the EU migrants were not a minor contributor. and brexit was certainly not due to the refugees in germany.

and skilled or unskilled both are legal and those polish workers had work, and were no threat.

anyways i agree with you that the education of the immigrants is important, but ethnicity should have 0 value and if it had value, like some people here think it should, it WOULDN'T MATTER IF YOU ARE LEGAL OR ILLEGAL, like it was the case with the identity problems some brexit voters got. they didn't care if an immigrants was legal or illegal. there were too many foreigners.
what's so hard to understand about this? i have never said anything different here.