Religion What does religion bring that nothing else can bring ?

[Maciamo]

I have serious problems understanding why people follow some organised religions. I am fairly tolerant when it comes to believing in an impersonal god (like the Deists and Pantheists) or not. But religion is a very different issue.

I believe that everything good in religions can be obtained without religion. Let's see point by point what I mean :

1) Morals are not related to religion, as non-relgious people (Atheists, Deists, etc.) tend to have as strong morals as religious people. Likewise, there are people of dubious morals among very religious, slightly religious and non-religious people. It's more a matter of personality and environment, I would say.

2) Charities and humanitarian work : There are plenty of non-religious organisations helping other people. The Japanese are mostly non-religious but do a pretty good job when it comes to these. In fact, statistics show that the very religious USA have the lowest OECD figures for ODA per capita.

3) Sense of belonging and interpersonal support : This is obviously not a monopoly of religious organisations. People can belong to almost any kind of clubs or organisations, or even internet forums.

4) Metaphysics: it gives a ready-made vision of the universe and life. It gives the answer to the great questions of life. Why do we live ? What happens after death ? What is the universe ? But so do many philosophers, and it's often less absurd than reading the Genesis of the Bible. I think it's even more interesting to "assemble" one's own philosophy based on various readings and own thinking, than to follow some fairy tales telling thinks that sciences has proven completely wrong, or requiring the interpretation of obscure metaphors that nobody can really agree on.

5) Feel good effect: Believing in god can help people feel better about their life. It can give them the illusion of fulfilling something grander, or the hope of going to heaven. Nevertheless, many non-religious people believe in god (Deists, Pantheists...), and some religious people don't (e.g. some Buddhists).

All I see in religions is a way for some religious leaders to get money and political influence. Sometimes, this influence is strong enough to fool people into violent actions (e.g. crusades, Ku Kux Klan, terrorism...). So, had the same people only believed in god, without listenning to religious organisations, many wars and atrocities could have been avoided.

All of you that do belong to religious organisations, please tell me what it is that make you stay in it, that you cannot get from non-religious philosophies or individual beliefs ?

 

[HomicidalMouse]

Maybe its a feeling of a greater power watching over us and so on. So if something bad happens you can say its God will for example. Maybe it makes people feel safer if they think this higher being is keeping an eye on them. :?

 

[Revenant]

A part of it may be the black and white answers some of the more fundamental sects offer. In a world of confusion and grey, these answers are something that give stability.

Just growing up with a religious tradition may be of comfort to some.

All the religious traditions attempt to convey some force to be held in awe, something to be wondered at, a sense of compassion, humility, serenity, and gratitude. The triggers to these feelings in a religion may work very well for some people.

Just some ideas.

 

[Maciamo]

Maybe its a feeling of a greater power watching over us and so on. So if something bad happens you can say its God will for example. Maybe it makes people feel safer if they think this higher being is keeping an eye on them. :?

Yes, but that is NOT brought by religion - only by believing in god. It is possible to believe in god (only) and not follow an organised religion.

 

[Maciamo]

All the religious traditions attempt to convey some force to be held in awe, something to be wondered at, a sense of compassion, humility, serenity, and gratitude. The triggers to these feelings in a religion may work very well for some people.

Hmm. This is not common to all religions. What's more, it's possible to experience these feelings without religion. It's just human nature. I find it a bit pathethic that some people can't feel or think one way without having people telling them to do so.

 

[Revenant]

I would agree. I was only trying to come up with some reasons for why people stay within an organized religion.

 

[Tsuyoiko]

I find it a bit pathethic that some people can't feel or think one way without having people telling them to do so.

Not everyone has your self-confidence. For those that don't, I suppose religion is one thing that can help.

Something that I don't think has been mentioned is the sense of superiority some people seem to have when they think of themselves as god's 'chosen people'.

 

[Ma Cherie]

Well just to point out, being from the US I'm not religious. I don't go to church or nothing of the sorts. And I can't even count the hours of community service I have done. :relief: But I would like to speak from personal experience.

Growing up, I was forced to go to church, and I hated it and it has made me resent religious people in general. The reason why? Well I noticed something about some religious people (at the church I use to attend in particular ). For one, many times they were incredibly intrusive. Just pushing their beliefs on other people without thinking about weather it would be offensive or not. Another thing that has made me resent some religious people is that, whenever they would meet someone who wasn't in church or had "their" faith I would listen to them call them "evil" and would say things like "you're going to burn in hell" and other things like that.

Now, moving onto my point, maybe religion doesn't have to bring comfort or answers to the afterlike or whatever, maybe it can make people feel superior over someone who isn't of their faith. Because I really believe that at times some religious people have this superiority complex to them.

So, Maciamo do you think it's an issue of moral superiority? :?

 

[Maciamo]

Not everyone has your self-confidence. For those that don't, I suppose religion is one thing that can help.

Something that I don't think has been mentioned is the sense of superiority some people seem to have when they think of themselves as god's 'chosen people'.

These two statements seem a bit contradictory. I guess that people with a strong sense of religious superiority would also be very self-confident about their religious beliefs. So do such people only follow their religion because of the sense of superiority it gives them ? I believe that the Jews are a good example. But isn't believing that one race was chosen by god the paramount of (religious) racism ?

 

[Maciamo]

So, Maciamo do you think it's an issue of moral superiority? :?

Maybe, but that would be very ironic, given that each religion has different moral values. What's more morals vary across culture, linguistic groups and individuals. There are few beliefs as relative as morals indeed. But I guess that's why Christian sects all believe that their interpretation of the Bible is "the only" correct one...

 

[No-name]

Born again Christians will tell you that religion is a construct of man- I think it is to achieve those goals that you outlined in the very first post of this thread. Christianity differs in that all those goals you listed are merely by-products of the only function of Christianity- a restored relationship with the living God. Certainly morals, charity, metaphysics and the feel good effect- can all be achieved outside of this. But the absolute, fundamental, basic reason for becoming a Christian is the relationship with Christ only- these other things are natural by-products.

 

[UFSI]

It Brings Me ......

Jehova's witnesses and Mormons to my door.

 

[Zentron]

I'm an ex-Christian(I say again EX), and I found there is much in most religions that is just a load of bull, which are made-up to keep you from thinking for yourself and in line. A fake religion is one that gives you an ultimatum, and orders you to join them(I won't point fingers at any, but you should know which ones I'm on about). A real religion does not give you an ultimatum and does not order you to join but come of your own free will(though some may manipulate you into believing you came on your own accord, so be wary of those).

Many come with the guise that they are there to promote love between one-another, to help people in need and that they are the 'one true religion', but yet, they promote fear and hate, the very things they say they are trying to get rid of(avoid those).

What does religion bring? Fake ones, bring idiots. Real ones, happy-go-lucky people(for lack of a better term)

 

[No-name]

Now I'm sad.

 

[kirei_na_me]

I think the promise of eternal life is a big part of it. People want to believe that when they die, they'll go on to another place, where they won't have to worry about dying again and they'll be reunited with all their loved ones. I just think it's kind of like insurance for some people, the believers.

 

[Revenant]

Just wanted to clarify which part I was agreeing with.

Hmm. This is not common to all religions. What's more, it's possible to experience these feelings without religion. It's just human nature.

I would agree. I was only trying to come up with some reasons for why people stay within an organized religion. I also didn't articulate that well. Not all religions have a force to be held in awe or wondered at, but at least from what I know, all attempto to instill awe and wonder.

I find it a bit pathethic that some people can't feel or think one way without having people telling them to do so.

The religion works for them, if something works, why change it? People usually don't change unless something's not working. I don't think it's quite as you put it.

 

[Ma Cherie]

I would agree that religion works for some people. But don't you think that's maybe religion was designed to make people feel guilty? I mean I listen to Bill Mahr alot and he raised some points. Like religion may be a guise of morality and he also points out that religion is "dishonest" and "stops people from thinking". For the most part I agree with him.

 

[Revenant]

Guilt was probably reasoned as a good way of conditioning people not to repeat the same action. I'm sure there are better ways of conditioning in some cases, but it is still a conditioner of sorts that does work well for some people.

But I do not think all religions were built with guilt as a part of them. Buddhism for example tells a person not to beat themselves up for having a thought, or impulse, but to simply watch it. To watch it rise like a bubble from the deep, and then wink out of existence.

This reasoning that religion is dishonest or stops people from thinking I don't think is entirely founded. What is dishonest about it? And I certainly do know religious people who think very well for themselves. To add to that, I really do feel that there are people who aren't well thought out in every belief system, including secular belief systems.

Morality is a part of every religion, and I would put forth that every religion has a method of instilling the better qualities in a person. Some of the religions are a bit more hit and miss, or rather the message is obscured by other parts of scriptures or doctrine. Some of the religion's 'spiritual' side is hidden, or sort of needs to be 'dug up' from all the other stuff.

But as I studied Christianity, it led me to Buddhism, and then I realized that although Christianity doesn't emphasize or elaborate on the better qualities, they are much the same as those found within Buddhism.

 

[Maciamo]

I think the promise of eternal life is a big part of it. People want to believe that when they die, they'll go on to another place, where they won't have to worry about dying again and they'll be reunited with all their loved ones. I just think it's kind of like insurance for some people, the believers.

But they could believe in this without following an organised religion. People can believe anything they want by themselves. The great thing about believing by yourself is that you can change your beliefs anytime you want, once they don't suit you anymore, or your understanding of the world evolves.

 

[Maciamo]

Just wanted to clarify which part I was agreeing with.
The religion works for them, if something works, why change it? People usually don't change unless something's not working. I don't think it's quite as you put it.

I really do believe (from my limited experience) that most people who follow religions by tradition (because their family followed that religion...) are not very happy with that religion. But as they don't know much else, they are stuck in it out of laziness to look for something better, or decide by themselves what they should believe in. This is what I find pathetic. Please keep in my that I come from a country where all non-immigrant are traditionally Catholic, and nothing else.

Catholicism is by far the biggest branch of Christianity with 1 billion followers (over half all Christians worldwide, and 4x the religious population of the USA). So it's the best example of institutionalised religion in the world, along with Sunni Islam (also about 1 billion followers). So 1 person out of 3 in the world is either a Catholic Christian or Sunni Muslim. The vast majority of them follow this religion not by choice but by tradition and social pressure. North America, and epecially the USA, is quite unique in its diversity of religions and sects. In most of Europe, Christians means Catholic/Anglican or Protestant, but few people are aware that there are more kinds of Protestants than Lutheran and Calvinist ! (see List of Christian denominations)