What it means to be Democrat or Republican in 2004

[Maciamo]

Yesterday, as I was watching the NY Times's video of the Democratic National Convention 2004, I realised how deeply the United States were divided.

Listenning to Ted Kennedy, Teresa Heinz Kerry, Bill Clinton and John Kerry, I could only applaud in agreement, as I did watching Kerry in his debate against Bush. Indeed, I almost felt I was American when watching this Democratic Convention (and people on this forum know how I have criticized the US since the Bush Administration).

The point is that there are two USA's. One is the conservative, deeply religious, self-centered, warlike and socially divisive USA of the Republicans. The other one is the more liberal, social-minded, cosmopolitan, open to the world, tolerant and peaceful Democratic USA.

Geographically, Democrats are mostly to be found in big cities of the North-East and West Coast. Republicans are in higher proportion in the remote country, the religious South and the top 1% wealthiest people.

My feeling on what it means to be either Democrat or Republican in today's USA, and therefore how people should decide how to vote on November 2, is as follow.

Voting for Bush and the Republicans will be people who are :

- against the Kyoto Treaty to reduce CO2 in the atmosphere (i.e. against ecology)
- against the Treaty of non-proliferation of nuclear weapons (i.e. for nuclear weapons)
- against abortion in all cases - even for rapes or medically dangerous cases. (i.e. against freedom of choice)
- against gay marriage or civil unions (i.e. against sexual tolerance)
- for more social inequality between rich and poors (i.e. against egalitarianism)
- for war when big businesses have interests in one country (i.e. for militarism)
- against cheaper medical care and education (i.e. for elitism and inequalities)
- against international collaboration (i.e. against home security)
- against stem cell research (i.e. against science)

People voting for Kerry and the Democrats will be voting the exact opposite. Choose how many you agree or disagree with and see in which camp you are.
Never has the USA been so ideologically divided as it is now. Or maybe it has, but this presidential election will be the best opportunity to demonstrate it.

 

[Satori]

I think you have summed it up beautifully. And you're right--never before has the U.S. been so polarized with respect to Republican vs. Democrat as it has with this election. In my opinion, this is going to be one of the most important elections we have ever had. I will definitely be voting for Kerry and against Bush!!

Wow, thanks for that link!! I'm going to have to spend some time watching those videos, as I missed all of that on T.V. That's a wonderful site!!

 

[Maciamo]

Let us not forget these quotations :

I Pray Heaven Bestow the Best of Blessings on This House and All that shall hereafter inhabit it. May none but Honest and Wise Men ever rule under this Roof.

When Americans stand up and speak their mind and say 'America can do better', that is not a challenge to patriotism, it is the heart and soul of patriotism.

(referring to the Stars and Stripes) You see that flag; that flag doesn't belong to any president, it doesn't belong to any ideology, it doesn't belong to any party, it belongs to all the American people.

 

[Satori]

Let us not forget these quotations :

I love these quotes! And then there's Bush ...

"Every nation and every region now has a decision to make Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists." --George W. Bush

I think that says it all. kashii:

 

[Satori]

I almost forgot ... here is a link to the Kerry-Edwards Online Forum:

http://forum.johnkerry.com/

I never got around to joining, but it looks kind of interesting, especially now that the elections are fast approaching.

I found a very interesting discussion at that site in the "National Security & Foreign Policy" section, if anyone is interested:

Richard Perle Admits Iraq War "Illegal":

http://forum.johnkerry.com/index.php?showtopic=72328&st=0

Another interesting read:

Professors' Open Letter to George W. Bush:

http://forum.johnkerry.com/index.php?showtopic=88645

I'm sure there are even more interesting discussions that have taken place.

 

[Satori]

Maciamo,

This is what I was talking about earlier in another post when explaining how the far rightwing media uses it's power and influence to support its preferred candidate:

* Conservative TV Chain Orders 62 Stations to Pre-Empt Regular Programming To Air Anti-Kerry "Documentary" Before Election *

18 Democratic Senators are urging the Federal Communications Commission to investigate Sinclair Broadcasting Group's decision to air what they view as an unpaid 90-minute attack ad against Kerry. FCC Commissioner Michael Copps called Sinclair's decision to air the program an "abuse of public trust."

Listen/Watch/Read
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/10/13/144229

It's sickening ... kashii:

Edited to add: Here is a link to the documentary referred to above, called "Stolen Honor":

http://www.stolenhonor.com/

There is a link on that site where you can view excerpts from the documentary. I think the documentary is indicative of how fearful the Bush campaign is in this election. It's ridiculous for someone like Bush, who went AWOL and never served in the military at all, to attack Kerry's record. Airing this documentary so close to the elections is an act of desperation, IMO.

kashii:

 

[Lina Inverse]

Very good summary indeed :haihai:
Yes it is indeed very appaling what means the Republicans resort to... but without all these dirty tricks, no sane person would re-elect them!

I yesterday did a smartselect test (look in the Humor and tests section... perhaps it should better be moved here since I didn't see any humorous in it?), and it said that Bush agrees at exactly 1% with all my views and opinions... kashii:

 

[Fantt]

The conservatives would say that a vote for Kerry would be a vote for:

Spreading deviant sexual lifestyles.
The destruction of the American family.
Continuing decay of American values.
Eventual confiscation of all firearms.
Socialized health care.
Socialism in general.
The selling out of the power of the US to the UN.
The terrorists.

I don't believe any of that crap, but most of my conservative friends do. For real. And that boggles my mind.

 

[Kamisama]

U.S.A. has many parts. Democrats actually use to be like republicans many years ago and vice versa. But today people hope that democrat=democracy which then equals freedom or a.k.a. the government taking an active role in people's lives to help the common good. Replublicans are to stay out of the public's life and go about government business in a different manner than freedom such as using military, or self exploration interests. Which is pretty much what george bush is doing. If you were to ask me, i think a lot of people in america are complete idiots and don't exactly know what the government is and they blame a lot of it on the president. Although it is the president's fault to have congress pass laws to mess up the world, congress passed the laws. So it is congress and the president's fault for making a lot of people angry these past 4 years. Most people don't even understand what congress does. The more people elected as republicans in congress the greater chance the republican president has for things to tip in thier favor and with a democrat president in a republican congress, kinda like bill clinton's experience, things don't go so well.

VOTE JOHN KERRY.
We have to pick someone, just pick someone who hasn't messed up yet.

By the way, half the stuff Bush talks about is bull****. He promises all this great stuff and does nothing. That's the fear you have with picking a president. I actually think john kerry is an isolationist and that is a pretty good thing in the end. We don't need to start trouble with other countries. I would have used military force in trouble places like south africa and more around the us for special tasks to take down druggies. Many troops who go over to iraq are given crap for weapons like the national guard. They don't get much in artillery. If you want to know something neat, notice how the air force, one of the safest military forces to not get shot in got packed up in a big hurry. They don't want to accept people anymore unless you want special ops, or some other jobs that really sucks. I don't trust any president really.

 

[Fantt]

Actually, I don't really like Kerry. Primarily, my vote is a vote cast against Bush. Kerry could have had Ho Chih Minh's lovechild and I'd still vote for him.

 

[Kamisama]

I just wouldn't want bush. I think the most corrupt thing that happened during his four years is the incident with where government money went. One of the medical companies around here got sued by the government. Phizer was it? Because paxil made people go through psychotic episodes. The FDA sued the crap out of them. But what made me angry was how bush and congress landed a refund plus more back in their lap saying it was for scientific research. Many doctors in america and politicians were annoyed by this. That company should really be knocked out many because they made another pill Vioxx was it? And it was giving people heart attacks and a bunch of other stuff.

 

[Satori]

I just wouldn't want bush. I think the most corrupt thing that happened during his four years is the incident with where government money went. One of the medical companies around here got sued by the government. Phizer was it? Because paxil made people go through psychotic episodes. The FDA sued the crap out of them. But what made me angry was how bush and congress landed a refund plus more back in their lap saying it was for scientific research. Many doctors in america and politicians were annoyed by this. That company should really be knocked out many because they made another pill Vioxx was it? And it was giving people heart attacks and a bunch of other stuff.

If you want to read about the Paxil and Vioxx class actions, here is a link:

http://www.bigclassaction.com

 

[Elizabeth]

Actually, I don't really like Kerry. Primarily, my vote is a vote cast against Bush. Kerry could have had Ho Chih Minh's lovechild and I'd still vote for him.

I don't find Kerry and 'his plan' particularly attractive either. Basically any so-called 'ideological divide' is laughable and seems to me more a matter of comfort with Bush's personality and style (or not) than anything related to his policies, much less those of the entire party. Although since most of the country still believes the US is headed in the wrong direction, the apparent tightness of contest at this late date is a little surprising. :?

 

[alfiegal]

Thanks to everyone for the heads-up, especially to Satori & Maciamo for the valuable links. Last night Ted Koppel of "Nightline" had a special report to verify claims made by Swiftboat Veterans for Truth. Their extremely well-funded ad campaign to smear Kerry's war record has been so damaging, that Kerry didn't gain in polls until he started to outdo himself in the 3 debates.

Koppel's people went to the remote Vietnamese town for eyewitnesses of Kerry's combat. They didn't exactly prove details of Kerry's medal citations (did young Vietcong die in crossfire, or did Kerry personally shoot him down?), but the intensity of Vietcong resistance was corroborated.

The scary thing was, the Swiftboat Vet interviewed by Koppel fit everything on Maciamo's above list. And some more. The guy is as charismatic, lovable lug of favorite uncle variety like Dubya himself. Holding up endless books with underlined passages at the camera, he kept evading Koppel's questions: Why do memories of the Vietnamese nobodies confirm Kerry's records? What would they gain from Kerry's election?

This Vet guy was just short of calling Koppel and "Nightline" Commies, for the audacity to check with Vietnamese eyewitnesses about Kerry's past, instead of what the almighty Vets & Boston Globe have published -- in favor of Bush's character assasination of Kerry of course. It's the same kind of right-wing Republican scare tactics going back to McCarthy: You're either with us God's Children the Vets, or you're with the Commie, closed-society Vietnamese who count Kerry their own war hero (for not dismantling all the weapons when they landed.)

Then there was New York Times' "Frontline" program of "Decision 2004", that recapped Bush & Kerry's climb to candidacy. It's literally the Charming Guy with Born PR Skills, vs. Self-Righteous Guy with Over-Articulate Obsession with Issues. Bush basically, after an early life of pulling on his name & downing pints, had some epiphany about his rock star charisma & people skills. This necessitates the "Born again Christian" cloak that reads like the wish fulfillment fairy tale his political bio desires. Then add a team of politically ambitious, connected business tycoons looking for a Great Face for their cheerleading team, and you've got a president MADE by extremely aggressive smear campaigns (which is almost genius-level psychological manipulation and ad culture.) There's no doubt the Swiftboat Vet guy came from the same smear campaign school of Bush's braintrust, i.e. tell people Black is White long enough before people start buying in truckloads.

Jesus, there is the legitimate, rational fear of terrorism by those who don't subscribe to it.
Then there's the irrational, narcissistic fear-mongering spawned by Bushworld!!

It's just nice to see SOMEBODY in the media parse through the BS it's surrounded with sometimes.

 

[Satori]

More on the "Stolen Honor" documentary:

Monday, October 18th, 2004
Sinclair Spokesperson Discusses His Former CIA Job and Whether He Will Air Anti-Kerry Special

We speak with Mark Hyman, Vice President for Corporate Relations at Sinclair Broadcast Group, which created an uproar last week when plans surfaced it ordered its 62 TV stations to pre-empt regular prime-time programming in favor of airing what many call an anti-Kerry film. Before working for Sinclair, Hyman served as an officer in Naval Intelligence and did work for the Central Intelligence Agency. [includes rush transcript] The Sinclair Broadcasting Group created an uproar last week when plans surfaced it ordered its 62 TV stations to pre-empt regular prime-time programming in favor of airing the film "Stolen Honor: Wounds That Never Heal." The documentary was produced by Carlton Sherwood, a former Washington Times reporter who used to work for Department of Homeland Security director Tom Ridge while he was governor of Pennsylvania.

In response, 18 Democratic Senators urged the Federal Communications Commission to investigate Sinclair"s decision to air what they view as an unpaid 90-minute attack ad against Kerry. FCC Commissioner Michael Copps released a statement calling Sinclair's decision to air the program a "abuse of public trust." And some groups complied databases of all of Sinclai"r advertisers so individuals could contact these companies and directly threaten to boycott their businesses if they did not pull their ads.

Well last Friday, I had a chance to speak with the Vice President for Corporate Relations for Sinclair, Mark Hyman. He joined me on the air in Canada while I was guest-hosting a radio show for CBC, Canada"s national public broadcaster.

* Mark Hyman, Vice President for Corporate Relations for Sinclair Broadcast Group.

Full transcript here:

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/10/18/1438238



:souka:

 

[misa.j]

It makes me wonder what it means.

I recently have encountered a few people who seemed to be democrats at separate occasions.

My sister-in-law, who is taking the graduete course in journalism at NYU, had missed voting because her absentee ballot didn't get there on time; she went to Pittsburgh for observation and called us from the bus on the way home to check how the candidates were doing, insisted to know who my husband had voted for, which he refused to tell her. After all, she said "That's gross!", assuming that he had voted for Bush.

One of my customers said that the movie "Farenheit 9/11" told all the truth; I said "It told us all the lies, too", the customer told me to stop; the same customer asked me what the movie "Control Room" was about (how Al-Jazeera aired the military actions from their prospective) which he didn't want to watch it because "The media tends to lean towards republicans."

Another customer was very fearful about getting her 18 yrs old son drafted, was scared of what's happening in Iraq. She was so scared that she didn't hear me saying that it was scary that a lot of people would believe everything what they heard or watched through media...

These are only pieces of my experience which made me wonder if people who would call themselves "democrats" were really so. IMHO, the labels such as that, or "foundamentalists" could narrow inteligent conversations.

I just wanted to share my opinion. Any arguements are welcome. Thanks for reading.

 

[No-name]

I'm a Democrat. I'm sad-- almost inconsolable. Lets just drop it. Let Mikecash celebrate and gloat. Waaaaah waaaah, sob sob...

Ahhhh that felt good. Let's talk about sushi- The best sushi chefs in the inland empire that I know of aren't even Japanese- one is Korean and the other is Mexican-American.