Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

The E-V13 Naissus sample:

Distance to:SRB_Naissus:R6764___AD_330
0.02956835BGR_TellKran_EBA:I19452
0.03048485BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:I20181
0.03164616BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:I20183
0.03355641HUN_IA_La_Tene_oEast:I18832
0.03391379BGR_TellKran_EBA:I19451
0.03434345HUN_IA_La_Tene_o:I4998
0.03436696MKD_Anc:I10379
0.03520359ALB_PostMA:I15707
0.03582452BGR_TellKran_EBA:I19456
0.03627610Bell_Beaker_ITA:I1979
0.03777057MDA_Trypillia_Late:Gordinesti
0.03781048HUN_early_Avar:SZK102
0.03795038HRV_Pop_CA:pOP39
0.03821662HUN_middle_Avar:ALT224
0.03924864HUN_Avar_Early_Kövegy:I16750
0.03943147BGR_IA:I5769
0.03948875HUN_late_Avar:KK1252
0.04032513ALB_PostMA:I14687
0.04077934MKD_Anc:I10383
0.04093608HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Transtisza:A181027
0.04098993GRC_Mycenaean_Kastrouli_BA:I13577
0.04159031MKD_BA:I7231
0.04166524HUN_middle_Avar:SSD198
0.04192165ALB_MA:I13839
0.04218451ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR111
0.04229528ALB_PostMA:I14686
0.04244024SVK_IA_Vekerzug:I11722
0.04269209ITA_Daunian:ORD009
0.04293508BGR_EBA:I2520
0.04294063SRB_BA:I16803
0.04356579HUN_Avar_Early_Tisza:I18185
0.04412185HUN_IA_Syrmian_SremGroup:I18259
0.04412783ITA_Sicily_Himera_409BCE:I7224
0.04430302Bell_Beaker_CZE_late:pRU001.A0101
0.04451844MKD_Anc:I7233
0.04453600ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16253
0.04456636HUN_middle_Avar:SZK180
0.04461819ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA_o:RMPR437b
0.04468136ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_2:I10950
0.04483439HRV_BA:I5073
0.04488811BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:I20185
0.04506189MKD_Anc:I10388
0.04547564HRV_MBA:I4331
0.04579186HRV_Cetina_BA:I11843
0.04587611MNE_LBA:I13167
0.04589863BGR_EBA:I2175
0.04595396MKD_Anc:I8112
0.04618943HUN_late_Avar:JHT130
0.04630413ITA_Tarquinia_EMA:TAQ022
0.04647217SRB_Mokrin_EBA_Maros:I23205


Used this model: https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...an-case/page29?p=659827&viewfull=1#post659827

I would like to change ChanneledWare to broader Danubian Urnfield component or atleast consider it as such, not tied to a very specific sub-culture.


Target: SRB_Naissus:R6764___AD_330
Distance: 1.9737% / 0.01973722
46.6GRC_Mycenaean
18.2ChannelledWare_LBA_EIA
15.4Proto_Illyrian
14.6ITA_Rome_Latini_IA
5.2South_Thrace_local

Obviously what we can conclude is that the 2 Himera samples were likely Illyrian/Pannonian in origin, especially I10946. For comparison.

Target: ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_2:I10950
Distance: 1.9362% / 0.01936230
43.0ChannelledWare_LBA_EIA
32.8GRC_Mycenaean
20.0Proto_Illyrian
3.0South_Thrace_local
1.2Dai



Target: ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_2:I10946
Distance: 2.4119% / 0.02411918
50.4Proto_Illyrian
38.4ChannelledWare_LBA_EIA
11.2GRC_Mycenaean

Still, interesting to analyze. Perhaps i am missing something.
 
Riverman said:
They have, in any case, the highest more recent Balkan contribution of all Italians going by yDNA.

287293691_5539146169451667_8855498959890092897_n.jpg


That's not just the haplogroups as such (J-L283, E-V13 etc.), but also the specific subclades.
Click to expand...
Imperial/Byzantine era "settlers" in the area mentioned before show no continuity from the native EBA-IA population that lived there prior Batos' wars and the CE multiculturalism disaster that happened afterwards.

As for that outdated "relative frequency" map of Hunter, it does not really accurately portray reality. First and foremost it completely blends out data from Kosovo especially Ulpiana/Prishtina Valley that has considerable amounts of J2b-L283 because Russian owned website Yfull does not allow to put the Kosovo flag as a location. Therefore the map needs to entail FTDNA data to be more accurate and closer to reality. Also, J2b-L283 clearly peaks in Northern Albania not in the South.

I am aware that this is a "relative" frequency map (diversity and frequency, I'm assuming?) but doesn't, according to peer reviewed genetic studies, J2b-L283 in Italy actually peak in the Po valley further up North?
 
torzio said:
Please explain your map as below is what I have for that marker
Click to expand...
You should make another screenshot with the multiple newer Proto-Illyrian J2b-L283 Cetina/Dinaric samples as the map you have is from some time ago.

The ancient EBA-IA bulk stretches from Slovenia to Albania to the West Adriatic (aDNA map):
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...S&ll=46.03451411461393,27.163847791050454&z=5 (courtesy of Veseli)

As Riverman already answered the map he posted is supposed to portray modern "relative" frequency not ancient. Besides accurately depicting the data on Moksha Russians it obviously is not accurate and outdated on other areas.
 
Most Samples posted before by that Albanian aren't Trogir Byzantine samples
which some show East Med admix but samples from Illyricum and they aren't far
away from the IA cluster of Macedonia, Albania etc nobody mentioned any continuity, since samples we have from BA/IA Croatia plot all over the place. Same with J2b2-L283, not too far away from Bronze AGE / IA cluster and clusters like a Northern Albanian



Distance to: Illyricum_Histria
0.02785719 HRV_EIA:I23995
0.03014585 MKD_Anc:I10385
0.03113771 MNE_LBA:I13775
0.03132907 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14690
0.03203364 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18746
0.03213954 MNE_LBA:I13167
0.03247886 HRV_Cetina_BA:I11843
0.03255247 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14692
0.03268822 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18747
0.03295481 HRV_EIA:I26742
0.03346578 MKD_Anc:I10384
0.03349523 HRV_EIA:I23904
0.03351858 MNE_LBA:I13777
0.03363144 MNE_LBA:I13168
0.03367046 SRB_IA:I16814
0.03371786 MKD_BA:I7231
0.03464069 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16251
0.03553820 MKD_Anc:I10388
0.03563721 HRV_EIA:I24639
0.03587973 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18745
0.03607012 MNE_LBA:I13172
0.03652464 MNE_LBA:I13169
0.03662282 HRV_IA:I5729
0.03676968 HRV_IA:I5723
0.03678835 HRV_IA:I3313




Distance to: Illyricum_Pannonia_Savia
0.02581792 HRV_Cetina_BA:I11843
0.02647273 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18746
0.02662104 HRV_EIA:I23995
0.02731375 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14690
0.02779523 MNE_LBA:I13775
0.02829294 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16251
0.02839100 MNE_LBA:I13168
0.02924939 MNE_LBA:I13777
0.02929880 SRB_IA:I16814
0.02931244 HRV_EIA:I26742
0.02938227 MKD_Anc:I10384
0.02968306 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18747
0.03003571 MNE_LBA:I13167
0.03049791 MKD_BA:I7231
0.03115717 HRV_EIA:I23904
0.03297641 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14692
0.03300500 MKD_Anc:I10385
0.03399101 MNE_LBA:I13169
0.03455868 MKD_Anc:I8112
0.03486257 MNE_LBA:I13172
0.03516327 HRV_IA:I5729
0.03548938 MNE_LBA:I13171
0.03558478 MKD_Anc:I10388
0.03582457 MNE_LBA:I14498
0.03632880 HRV_EIA:I24639



Distance to: Illyricum_Dalmatia
0.02797407 MKD_BA:I7231
0.02812783 MNE_LBA:I13167
0.02962433 MNE_LBA:I13775
0.03035552 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16251
0.03095104 HRV_Cetina_BA:I11843
0.03132504 MKD_Anc:I10388
0.03390101 HRV_EIA:I26742
0.03462856 MKD_Anc:I10384
0.03526480 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18747
0.03636502 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14690
0.03661759 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14692
0.03662327 HRV_EIA:I23904
0.03663128 MNE_LBA:I13169
0.03670965 MKD_Anc:I10385
0.03678935 MKD_Anc:I10390
0.03737838 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18746
0.03767144 HRV_EIA:I23995
0.03774514 MNE_LBA:I13172
0.03787679 MNE_LBA:I13168
0.03790791 MNE_LBA:I13777
0.03794793 MKD_Anc:I10391
0.03830005 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14688
0.03839864 SRB_IA:I16814
0.03876597 MNE_LBA:I14498
0.03909842 HRV_IA:I3313



Distance to: Roman_Dardania:Naissus:Roman_NaissusR6764-K13-sim
0.02658132 MNE_LBA:I13167
0.02823731 MKD_Anc:I10388
0.02987771 MKD_BA:I7231
0.03217765 HRV_EIA:I26742
0.03273689 MKD_Anc:I10391
0.03294800 MNE_LBA:I13775
0.03321161 MKD_Anc:I10381
0.03433016 MKD_Anc:I10384
0.03469943 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16251
0.03537362 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14688
0.03538574 MNE_LBA:I14498
0.03543487 HRV_Cetina_BA:I11843
0.03598377 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18747
0.03604131 MKD_Anc:I10390
0.03635779 BGR_IA:I5769
0.03763695 HRV_IA:I3313
0.03803486 MNE_LBA:I13169
0.03818257 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14692
0.03825414 MKD_Anc:I10383
0.03857930 MKD_Anc:I10387
0.03858007 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14690
0.03895344 HRV_EIA:I23904
0.03897452 MNE_LBA:I13168
0.03938668 MKD_Anc:I10379
0.03939984 MNE_LBA:I13777



Distance to: Moesia_Dardania:Serbia_Viminacium_J2b2_L283
0.02818554 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18746
0.02891142 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16251
0.02923684 MNE_LBA:I13775
0.02936062 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18747
0.02948860 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14690
0.02962992 SRB_IA:I16814
0.03066272 HRV_EIA:I26742
0.03075671 MNE_LBA:I13167
0.03152714 HRV_Cetina_BA:I11843
0.03215281 MKD_Anc:I10384
0.03325354 HRV_EIA:I23904
0.03346776 MKD_BA:I7231
0.03350210 MNE_LBA:I13168
0.03390106 MKD_Anc:I10385
0.03395806 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14692
0.03401255 MKD_Anc:I10388
0.03421335 HRV_EIA:I23995
0.03432340 MNE_LBA:I13172
0.03513325 MNE_LBA:I13777
0.03517217 MNE_LBA:I13169
0.03644836 MKD_Anc:I10390
0.03740735 HRV_IA:I3313
0.03887063 MNE_LBA:I14498
0.03897626 HRV_EIA:I24639
0.03905684 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18745
 
Hawk said:
The E-V13 Naissus sample:

.
Click to expand...

When I ran this sample I got totally different results, maybe because I used most Iron Age samples and Bronze Age samples from the Balkans only, left out Bronze Age Bulgaria only which is irrelevant and not identical to IA samples.

Distance to: Roman_Dardania:Naissus:Roman_NaissusR6764-K13-sim
0.02658132 MNE_LBA:I13167
0.02823731 MKD_Anc:I10388
0.02987771 MKD_BA:I7231
0.03217765 HRV_EIA:I26742
0.03273689 MKD_Anc:I10391
0.03294800 MNE_LBA:I13775
0.03321161 MKD_Anc:I10381
0.03433016 MKD_Anc:I10384
0.03469943 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16251
0.03537362 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14688
0.03538574 MNE_LBA:I14498
0.03543487 HRV_Cetina_BA:I11843
0.03598377 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18747
0.03604131 MKD_Anc:I10390
0.03635779 BGR_IA:I5769
0.03763695 HRV_IA:I3313
0.03803486 MNE_LBA:I13169
0.03818257 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14692
0.03825414 MKD_Anc:I10383
0.03857930 MKD_Anc:I10387
0.03858007 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14690
0.03895344 HRV_EIA:I23904
0.03897452 MNE_LBA:I13168
0.03938668 MKD_Anc:I10379
0.03939984 MNE_LBA:I13777



As you can see you left out some samples because distances are closer than yours except for EBA Bulgaria.
 
leshipeshi said:
When I ran this sample I got totally different results, maybe because I used most Iron Age samples and Bronze Age samples from the Balkans only, left out Bronze Age Bulgaria only which is irrelevant and not identical to IA samples.

Distance to: Roman_Dardania:Naissus:Roman_NaissusR6764-K13-sim
0.02658132 MNE_LBA:I13167
0.02823731 MKD_Anc:I10388
0.02987771 MKD_BA:I7231
0.03217765 HRV_EIA:I26742
0.03273689 MKD_Anc:I10391
0.03294800 MNE_LBA:I13775
0.03321161 MKD_Anc:I10381
0.03433016 MKD_Anc:I10384
0.03469943 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16251
0.03537362 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14688
0.03538574 MNE_LBA:I14498
0.03543487 HRV_Cetina_BA:I11843
0.03598377 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18747
0.03604131 MKD_Anc:I10390
0.03635779 BGR_IA:I5769
0.03763695 HRV_IA:I3313
0.03803486 MNE_LBA:I13169
0.03818257 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14692
0.03825414 MKD_Anc:I10383
0.03857930 MKD_Anc:I10387
0.03858007 ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14690
0.03895344 HRV_EIA:I23904
0.03897452 MNE_LBA:I13168
0.03938668 MKD_Anc:I10379
0.03939984 MNE_LBA:I13777



As you can see you left out some samples because distances are closer than yours except for EBA Bulgaria.
Click to expand...

It's because you used the sim, and i used the newly added G25 coordinates: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread...-high-mobility&p=883163&viewfull=1#post883163

There is some newly added from HRV and surroundings, maybe someone can map the Y-DNA and samples, because i lost track in so many samples.
 
I used this model, it's basically Riverman's model just the name of Channeled Ware was renamed to Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield to reflect and generalize a bit more.

Code: 
Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18213,0.127482,0.149283,0.0445,0.01615,0.040931,0.004183,0.002585,-0.002538,0.01084,0.018041,-0.000974,0.008243,-0.004014,0.002202,-0.007193,-0.00769,-0.013951,0.005701,0.007165,-0.006753,-0.003868,0.000618,-0.008997,-0.014701,0.005748
Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18239,0.12862,0.14319,0.049026,-0.001938,0.047701,0,0.004465,0.000462,0.01309,0.018953,0.006171,0.007493,-0.007582,-0.00234,-0.007057,0.001989,0.007693,0.00114,-0.004274,-5e-04,0.001622,0.004328,-0.005793,-0.010001,0.003952
Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18245,0.133173,0.149283,0.05506,0.026486,0.044931,0.006972,0.011986,0.009,0.01268,0.006743,0.001949,-0.000749,-0.003865,0.003165,-0.004207,0.006099,0.005607,0.002534,0.002137,-0.001126,0.002246,-0.004451,0.000986,-0.005181,-0.010897
Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18246,0.119514,0.149283,0.056945,0.013243,0.047393,0.005578,0.001175,0.003231,0.01309,0.014397,0.002761,0.002398,-0.004906,0.006744,-0.005836,-0.004243,-0.001304,-0.007095,0.005656,-0.000375,-0.009234,0.009521,0.003574,-0.013616,0.003233
Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_LBA:I20749,0.133173,0.136081,0.065242,0.049096,0.048932,0.013387,0.003055,0.006231,0.009408,0.008018,-0.003085,-0.005245,0.000446,0.006193,-0.006922,0.016839,0.024773,-0.004054,-0.007165,0.013381,0.005241,0.001237,0.000863,-0.012893,-0.00934
Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_LBA:I1504,0.125205,0.15436,0.060716,0.033592,0.061242,0.008646,0.00423,0.007615,0.014317,0.007836,-0.004547,-0.006594,0.001041,0.007432,-0.002579,-0.001591,0.010952,-0.002027,0.008547,0.004752,0.004617,0.005317,0.003081,-0.013134,0.000239
Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_LBA:I20751,0.126344,0.142174,0.059962,0.032946,0.051394,0.009482,0.00517,0.003461,0.016157,0.020046,-0.007307,-0.000599,-0.001784,-0.003303,-0.006786,0.018297,0.014603,0.006968,0.004274,0.002626,-0.001497,0.001484,-0.004437,-0.00012,-0.002515
Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_LBA:I20771,0.133173,0.135065,0.061094,0.046512,0.050779,0.016455,0.002585,0.003461,0.010226,0.007472,-0.00065,-0.01109,-0.002676,0.001651,-0.007736,0.017237,0.024773,-0.009755,-0.005154,0.013256,0.00549,0.001237,0.000246,-0.014098,-0.005149
Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_LBA:I20773,0.132035,0.146236,0.064488,0.035207,0.056318,0.01004,0.013631,0.001154,0.018203,0.018953,0.00406,-0.002997,0.003122,-0.003991,0.00285,0.024264,0.004694,0.010515,-0.002765,-0.000875,-0.01984,0.007419,-0.014543,-0.012291,-0.002994
Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_LBA:I25505,0.130897,0.147252,0.064488,0.033592,0.045855,-0.000279,0.003995,0.004154,0.015544,0.01057,-0.007145,0.01169,-0.00223,0.005367,0.001764,-0.012066,-0.008996,0.005828,0.010307,-0.005253,0.004617,0.008285,0.002465,-0.015062,-0.004071
Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe:DA134,0.1161,0.054839,0.037335,0.057817,-0.033852,0.031236,0.00846,0.000231,-0.037223,-0.043554,0.001786,-0.005245,0.000149,-0.026974,0.02348,0.004508,-0.014473,-0.002154,-0.004777,-0.001126,-0.008859,0.01422,0.003697,0.008314,0.005029
Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe:DA136,0.113823,0.039606,0.039221,0.061047,-0.028005,0.020638,-0.007755,0.002077,-0.023111,-0.033349,-0.005521,0.006145,-0.004906,-0.03358,0.021308,0.030496,-0.002738,0.003927,-0.007793,0.009379,-0.010232,0.019166,-0.008011,0.003133,0.003592
Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe:DA139,0.104717,0.051792,0.02753,0.047481,-0.021235,0.015897,0.00094,-0.009461,-0.032724,-0.03262,-0.002111,-0.003597,-0.009217,-0.017478,0.015879,0.009149,0.01343,-0.012669,-0.003897,0.007754,-0.012728,-0.004699,-0.005546,0.009519,-0.000718
Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe:DA141,0.112685,0.039606,0.033564,0.073967,-0.031083,0.031236,0.00658,0.005538,-0.032928,-0.030616,-0.003085,-0.005245,-0.010406,-0.026974,0.018322,0.020021,0.000652,0.000507,-0.001383,-0.005878,-0.003369,0.000866,0.009367,0.014098,-0.000718
Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe:DA143,0.112685,0.054839,0.039598,0.07429,-0.033852,0.030678,0.00094,0.007384,-0.021066,-0.039545,-0.002761,-0.000899,-0.006838,-0.021056,0.019815,0.008221,-0.011735,-0.004814,-0.011187,5e-04,-0.005116,0.000866,0.002711,-0.005302,-0.000239
Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe:DA144,0.10927,0.043668,0.032432,0.076874,-0.022158,0.030678,-0.00893,0.000231,-0.032724,-0.03991,-0.011367,-0.009591,0.010704,-0.02491,0.019679,0.004641,-0.001434,0.001014,0.00088,-0.000375,-0.023583,-0.001113,-0.001356,0.010122,0.011376
CZE_MBA_Tumulus:I16099,0.126344,0.145221,0.064111,0.021641,0.044931,0.010319,0.001175,0.003692,0.015544,0.015855,-0.00341,0.009292,-0.017393,-0.007982,0.00095,0.023999,0.002347,0.005954,-0.001508,0,0.005615,0.004946,-0.008874,-0.01699,-0.005389
CZE_MBA_Tumulus:I16100,0.129758,0.133034,0.061094,0.050065,0.046778,0.016733,0,0.005077,0.008385,-0.002187,-0.005359,0.001798,-0.007284,-0.005505,0.004343,-0.002784,0.002738,-0.003674,-0.001508,-0.005503,0.008735,0.005935,-0.002342,-0.007953,0.002036
CZE_MBA_Tumulus:I16111,0.126344,0.145221,0.053551,0.033269,0.045547,0.01004,0.007755,0.006,0.001227,0.018953,0.005846,0.004196,-0.008176,-0.004266,0.006107,-0.013657,-0.02725,-0.001394,-0.001885,-0.001,0.000125,-0.001607,-0.012078,-0.002048,-0.005987
CZE_MBA_Tumulus:I16112,0.130897,0.142174,0.054305,0.022287,0.047393,0.009203,-0.00047,0.007154,0.002045,0.019499,-0.006008,0.001948,-0.018731,-0.014863,-0.005157,0.001591,-0.005737,-0.000887,-0.000126,-0.001126,-0.003619,-0.005688,-0.005423,-0.007591,-0.002994
Yoruba,-0.6300625,0.0625011,0.022113,0.0167079,0.0005035,0.0124741,-0.044417,0.0477673,-0.0488813,0.0327694,0.0046205,0.0007904,0.0230561,0.0009509,0.0125232,-0.0096067,0.0070763,0.0004491,0.006022,-0.00299,0.0015542,0.0023156,-0.0017592,-0.0004711,-0.0004246
Dai,0.0156507,-0.438709,-0.046763,-0.0609662,0.1201762,0.0622622,0.00047,-0.0073845,-0.0189698,-0.013121,0.0109208,0.0020232,-0.000446,-0.006193,0.0012895,0.0045742,0.0061282,-0.0009502,-0.0043368,-0.011662,0.0121972,0.0090268,0.0149438,0.002892,0.007095
Germanic:DEU_MA,0.1223596,0.1303939,0.061169,0.048773,0.039792,0.0199408,0.010975,0.0052151,0.0013295,-0.0024966,-0.003735,0.001109,-0.0091576,-0.0038398,0.0161643,-0.0008352,-0.0133511,0.0032684,0.0041354,0.0040271,0.0060019,0.0037342,-0.0007273,0.011146,-0.0004429
Germanic:VK2020_NOR_North_IA:VK418,0.125205,0.132019,0.070144,0.064277,0.040315,0.019522,0.00423,0.013846,0.007567,-0.007107,-0.001786,-0.002847,-0.011001,-0.001514,0.031487,-0.005967,-0.029858,-0.0019,0.00352,0.003001,0.010606,0.000371,0,0.003012,-0.000838
Germanic:VK2020_NOR_South_IA:VK391,0.12862,0.141159,0.080327,0.062662,0.047701,0.022311,0.012691,0.011076,-0.003068,-0.015672,-0.012666,-0.004496,-0.002081,-0.007707,0.019679,0.0118,0.004303,0.003547,-0.006159,0.001,0.006988,-0.002597,-0.010723,0.014098,0.011017
CZE_Early_Slav,0.12862,0.129988,0.068259,0.046835,0.02739,0.013387,0.007285,0.014076,-0.001841,-0.018406,-0.000812,-0.004346,0.003717,0.007156,-0.010993,-0.003182,0.011604,-0.002027,-0.002388,-0.004752,0.005615,0.000618,0.001725,-0.000964,-0.006706
ITA_Rome_Latini_IA,0.127482,0.147252,0.033187,-0.016796,0.044008,-0.008646,-0.00376,-0.004846,0.026588,0.052666,-0.002761,0.015137,-0.036719,-0.008533,-0.009093,0.013392,0.016037,-0.004687,0.003897,0.004127,0.00262,-0.00272,0.001972,-0.007712,-0.008742
CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany,0.12862,0.1376045,0.0705215,0.034238,0.0481625,0.004044,0.0019975,0.001385,0.018509,0.019955,-0.012017,-0.0052455,-0.00944,0.0006195,0.0095685,-0.0013255,-0.005998,0.001774,0.0048395,0.0080665,0.001061,0.0019785,-0.0006165,-0.005422,-0.0034725
Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I24342,0.127482,0.138112,0.041483,0.009367,0.038776,-0.006414,-0.002115,0.001385,0.015544,0.023144,0.004384,0.012289,-0.018285,-0.011285,0.0095,0.001724,-0.001043,0.002154,0.001383,0,0.006738,0.005193,-0.00493,-0.001807,-0.001557
Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I26726,0.121791,0.144205,0.032432,-0.012274,0.026466,-0.000279,-0.006815,-0.001154,0.005931,0.030069,0.008444,0.006145,-0.029137,0.001789,-0.000814,-0.017634,-0.01369,-0.000633,0.014078,-0.010505,-0.004617,0.004575,0.002342,0.004458,-0.001317
Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I26773,0.122929,0.144205,0.045254,0.004199,0.023697,-0.006414,-0.006815,-0.005538,0.006136,0.026242,0.002273,0.01169,-0.021853,-0.015414,0.005836,-0.001458,0.007041,0.009375,0.004274,-0.006128,-0.012228,0.003091,-0.00419,0.005543,-0.006347
Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I26774,0.12862,0.149283,0.039221,0.002907,0.033852,0.000279,-0.00282,0.008538,0.008385,0.026242,-0.000812,0.01094,-0.016353,-0.000826,0.001764,-0.006364,-0.002086,0.00076,0.007668,-0.004502,0.000374,0.011994,-0.003821,0.004097,-0.003952
Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I26893,0.129758,0.149283,0.041106,0.013889,0.02739,0.002789,0.00188,0.002077,0.004909,0.023144,-0.007957,0.010491,-0.024975,-0.014588,0.001764,0.005569,0.021383,0.001394,0.006536,0.001876,-0.002995,0.004946,0.002465,0.005302,-0.006347
Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I4331,0.12862,0.151314,0.028284,-0.007429,0.038776,-0.006972,-0.00705,-0.006,0.003681,0.028064,0.006171,0.010341,-0.017542,-0.003578,-0.0076,0.006497,0.008084,-0.003041,0.006159,-0.011631,-0.005865,-0.001113,-0.00037,0.003856,-0.001197
Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I4332,0.120652,0.147252,0.034318,-0.012274,0.038469,0.002231,-0.00423,0.001154,0.009613,0.032074,-0.006008,0.01094,-0.012487,-0.014726,-0.005972,0.01074,0.02047,-0.00114,0.000754,-0.011005,-0.001248,0.008656,-0.00419,0.002048,-0.002395
South_Thrace_local:BGR_IA:I5769,0.126344,0.157407,0.007165,-0.051034,0.029852,-0.02259,0.00423,-0.001385,0.007772,0.032074,-0.001461,0.005695,-0.013974,-0.003028,-0.015065,-0.001458,0.01369,0.006968,0.006285,-0.014757,-0.006239,0.004699,-0.007888,0.003494,-0.008861
GRC_Mycenaean:I9006,0.119514,0.160454,-0.006788,-0.068476,0.014464,-0.03514,-0.003055,-0.006923,-0.002863,0.050115,0.004384,0.015137,-0.009366,0.00289,-0.019815,-0.005304,0.024643,0.007601,0.020992,-0.000375,-0.007487,-0.012365,-0.010969,-0.000602,-0.001796
GRC_Mycenaean:I9010,0.110408,0.160454,-0.015462,-0.071383,0.029544,-0.038487,-0.003525,0.004154,0.013499,0.056129,0.018025,0.017235,-0.00223,-0.00234,-0.023208,-0.005038,0.031553,0.003421,0.005908,-0.004002,-0.006613,0.003215,-0.016145,-0.007109,-0.003113
GRC_Mycenaean:I9033,0.091058,0.150298,-0.004148,-0.050388,0.022773,-0.013387,0.007285,-0.006692,0.003068,0.041003,-0.003573,0.019333,-0.020218,0.005505,-0.006515,-0.026518,0.00678,-0.003167,0.012193,-0.008629,-0.002995,-0.006306,-0.000616,0.005904,0.006945
GRC_Mycenaean:I9041,0.110408,0.15436,-0.006034,-0.068476,0.020004,-0.021475,-0.00282,0.000923,0.007976,0.042097,0.003248,0.016036,-0.019326,-0.008533,-0.016015,-0.002387,0.021122,0.006588,0.010182,-0.002876,-0.006364,0.016199,0.001356,0.006386,-0.00491
Levant_LBN_Roman,0.0887823,0.1447132,-0.0554368,-0.085595,-0.0116175,-0.0282378,-0.0074612,-0.0076152,0.0076698,0.0121642,0.0031262,-0.01139,0.0130822,-0.0017893,-0.0105862,0.0093475,0.002673,-0.0006652,0.0025138,0.0022512,0.000655,0.0059042,-0.0035742,0.0001205,-0.005299
Berber_Tunisia_Chen,-0.0279499,0.1390711,-0.0080871,-0.0764792,0.0277316,-0.0352023,-0.0313867,0.0052818,0.0684246,0.0297957,0.0040057,-0.0043877,0.0196314,-0.0161248,0.0140923,-0.0169052,0.0001521,-0.0232896,-0.0467247,0.0078579,-0.0168314,-0.0404275,0.0281347,-0.0044517,0.0063666
TUR_Ottoman,0.079107,-0.0741335,0.01829,-0.0075905,-0.043085,-0.0133865,0.0029375,0.000808,-0.010124,-0.012119,-0.00885,-0.0063695,-0.0057235,-0.0088075,0.0052255,0,0.007758,0.000887,-0.0018855,-0.000375,-0.0089845,-0.0004325,-0.0096135,-0.001747,0.0003595
ITA_Rome_Imperial,0.1039821,0.1495156,-0.0235307,-0.0574065,0.0045265,-0.0204055,-0.0011946,-0.0051488,0.0006604,0.0196549,0.0034575,0.0025539,-0.0040602,-0.0014737,-0.0081715,-0.0014474,0.0035992,0.000454,0.0012178,-0.0032854,-0.0025579,0.0020454,-0.0006985,-0.0004845,0.0004141
TUR_Alalakh_MLBA,0.0970122,0.1472908,-0.0604988,-0.090117,-0.0156477,-0.0341748,0.0015728,-0.0050412,-0.00306,0.0125111,0.006408,-0.0047555,0.0086109,0.004912,-0.0113588,0.0070272,-0.0005767,0.0018711,0.0047668,-0.002535,0.0021548,0.0038048,-0.0040007,-0.0040968,0.0005988

These are the E-V13 samples:

Code: 
E-V13_SRB_Viminacium:R3931___AD_180,0.127482,0.113739,0.058831,0.049742,0.028928,0.020917,0.004465,-0.000923,0.004295,-0.005832,0.005684,0.000899,0.003717,0.006055,-0.001086,0.01485,0.022817,-0.002534,0.000628,0.000875,-0.013351,0.00371,0.003328,0.001928,-0.008263
E-V13_HRV_Scitarjevo:R3659___AD_313,0.122929,0.153345,0.026021,0,0.024928,-0.009203,-0.003055,-0.004615,0.011658,0.016401,0.006658,0.008692,-0.015015,-0.005092,-0.001357,-0.009944,-0.005085,0.0019,0.006285,-0.011631,-0.004866,0.000989,-0.008134,-0.004699,0.004311
E-V13_SRB_Viminacium:R3931___AD_180,0.127482,0.113739,0.058831,0.049742,0.028928,0.020917,0.004465,-0.000923,0.004295,-0.005832,0.005684,0.000899,0.003717,0.006055,-0.001086,0.01485,0.022817,-0.002534,0.000628,0.000875,-0.013351,0.00371,0.003328,0.001928,-0.008263
E-V13SRB_Naissus:R6764___AD_330,0.120652,0.161469,0.017725,-0.031008,0.040315,-0.018128,0.000705,-0.000923,0.005727,0.037358,0.007307,0.013638,-0.016799,0.003303,-0.019001,0.006364,0.029597,-0.00038,0.010936,-0.004627,-0.007237,-0.002968,-0.006779,-0.004217,-0.010538



Target: E-V13SRB_Naissus:R6764___AD_330
Distance: 1.9737% / 0.01973748
46.6GRC_Mycenaean
18.0Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield
15.8Proto_Illyrian
14.6ITA_Rome_Latini_IA
5.0South_Thrace_local


Target: E-V13_SRB_Viminacium:R3931___AD_180
Distance: 2.3718% / 0.02371829
56.8Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield
21.4Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe
21.2CZE_Early_Slav
0.6Dai


Target: E-V13_HRV_Scitarjevo:R3659___AD_313
Distance: 1.6860% / 0.01685983
43.4Proto_Illyrian
41.4Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield
9.2TUR_Alalakh_MLBA
4.8ITA_Rome_Imperial
1.0Germanic
0.2GRC_Mycenaean


Target: E-V13_SRB_Viminacium:R3931___AD_180
Distance: 2.3718% / 0.02371829
56.8Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield
21.4Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe
21.2CZE_Early_Slav
0.6Dai


Distance to:E-V13SRB_Naissus:R6764___AD_330
0.02956835BGR_TellKran_EBA:I19452
0.03048485BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:I20181
0.03164616BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:I20183
0.03355641HUN_IA_La_Tene_oEast:I18832
0.03391379BGR_TellKran_EBA:I19451
0.03434345HUN_IA_La_Tene_o:I4998
0.03436696MKD_Anc:I10379
0.03520359ALB_PostMA:I15707
0.03582452BGR_TellKran_EBA:I19456
0.03627610Bell_Beaker_ITA:I1979
0.03777057MDA_Trypillia_Late:Gordinesti
0.03781048HUN_early_Avar:SZK102
0.03795038HRV_Pop_CA:pOP39
0.03821662HUN_middle_Avar:ALT224
0.03924864HUN_Avar_Early_Kövegy:I16750
0.03943147BGR_IA:I5769
0.03948875HUN_late_Avar:KK1252
0.04032513ALB_PostMA:I14687
0.04077934MKD_Anc:I10383
0.04093608HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Transtisza:A181027
0.04098993GRC_Mycenaean_Kastrouli_BA:I13577
0.04159031MKD_BA:I7231
0.04166524HUN_middle_Avar:SSD198
0.04192165ALB_MA:I13839
0.04218451ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR111
0.04229528ALB_PostMA:I14686
0.04244024SVK_IA_Vekerzug:I11722
0.04269209ITA_Daunian:ORD009
0.04293508BGR_EBA:I2520
0.04294063SRB_BA:I16803
0.04356579HUN_Avar_Early_Tisza:I18185
0.04412185HUN_IA_Syrmian_SremGroup:I18259
0.04412783ITA_Sicily_Himera_409BCE:I7224
0.04430302Bell_Beaker_CZE_late:pRU001.A0101
0.04451844MKD_Anc:I7233
0.04453600ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16253
0.04456636HUN_middle_Avar:SZK180
0.04461819ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA_o:RMPR437b
0.04468136ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_2:I10950
0.04483439HRV_BA:I5073
0.04488811BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:I20185
0.04506189MKD_Anc:I10388
0.04547564HRV_MBA:I4331
0.04579186HRV_Cetina_BA:I11843
0.04587611MNE_LBA:I13167
0.04589863BGR_EBA:I2175
0.04595396MKD_Anc:I8112
0.04618943HUN_late_Avar:JHT130
0.04630413ITA_Tarquinia_EMA:TAQ022
0.04647217SRB_Mokrin_EBA_Maros:I23205


Distance to:E-V13_SRB_Viminacium:R3931___AD_180
0.03217769HUN_Conqueror_elite:SE64
0.03554580SVK_IA_Vekerzug:I5288
0.03700675CZE_Unetice_C:VLI060.A0101
0.03847034HUN_IA_La_Tene_o:I18182
0.04069055CZE_Unetice_C:MIB002
0.04073869HUN_Conqueror_commoner:HMSZ43
0.04074919HUN_Conqueror_commoner:IBE206
0.04079123England_Dorset_VA:VK263
0.04088222HUN_early_Arpadian_commoner:pLE441
0.04138801CZE_Unetice_C:CHL001
0.04142051HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Transtisza:A181023
0.04274357HUN_early_Arpadian_commoner:IBE106
0.04281483HRV_Bezdanjaca_BA:I18723
0.04307122Bell_Beaker_CZE_late:I7276
0.04310240DNK_Funen_VA:VK313
0.04320524HUN_early_Arpadian_commoner:MH153
0.04338950MNE_IA:I13170
0.04349544CZE_IA_La_Tene:I13780
0.04352016CZE_Early_Slav:RISE569
0.04394392SWE_Gotland_VA:VK454
0.04402821HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ5
0.04414371CZE_Unetice_C:KO1010.A0101
0.04415894RUS_Ladoga_VA:VK16
0.04425476HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Danube-Tisza:A181017
0.04434763CZE_IA_La_Tene:I15950
0.04467676HUN_Conqueror_elite:SP2
0.04468721HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ24
0.04469445NOR_North_VA:VK514
0.04479918HUN_MBA_Fuzesabony:I20750
0.04483699HUN_early_Arpadian_commoner:VPB600
0.04505840HUN_IA_La_Tene_o3:I25509
0.04518057EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK492
0.04531980CZE_IA_La_Tene:I15044
0.04533214HUN_Conqueror_commoner:pLE23
0.04534342Bell_Beaker_CZE_late:I5666
0.04534367HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Transtisza:A181028
0.04541869HUN_late_Avar:TMH798
0.04548495CZE_LBA_Knoviz:I16538
0.04558168CZE_Unetice_C:KO1014.A0101
0.04559201RUS_Ladoga_VA:VK409
0.04560501RUS_Gnezdovo_VA:VK223
0.04567282HUN_Conqueror_elite:AGY75
0.04574451HUN_Conqueror_commoner:SZA29
0.04580998HUN_early_Arpadian_commoner:IBE116
0.04586172CZE_EBA_Unetice:I15825
0.04594200Corded_Ware_CHE:MX195
0.04613207Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I3600
0.04614672SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt036
0.04616912HUN_Conqueror_commoner:HMSZ50
0.04622191HUN_Conqueror_commoner:SH12


Distance to:E-V13_HRV_Scitarjevo:R3659___AD_313
0.02701560HRV_BA:I18712
0.02856340HRV_EIA:I24639
0.02872609HRV_Cetina_BA:I18746
0.02887358ITA_Collegno_MA:CL23
0.02933023ITA_Proto-Villanovan:RMPR1
0.02958145MKD_Anc:I10385
0.02987903HRV_Cetina_BA:I19027
0.03013615HRV_BA:I5074
0.03039465HRV_Bezdanjaca_BA:I18737
0.03043954DEU_MA_Alemannic_o1:NIEcap3b
0.03047628HRV_Cetina_BA:I18747
0.03056300HUN_LBA_EIA:I11683
0.03057180MKD_Anc:I10384
0.03100311MNE_LBA:I13778
0.03106235MNE_LBA:I13172
0.03135910HRV_EIA:I23996
0.03148367HRV_Cetina_BA:I18752
0.03169412HRV_Cetina_BA:I18745
0.03223057HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ28
0.03235432HUN_early_Avar:MS45
0.03269025ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR105
0.03280165CZE_IA_La_Tene:I17139
0.03295328HUN_Conqueror_elite:SE114
0.03301400SVN_EIA:I5692
0.03301461HRV_IA:I3313
0.03315100ALB_MA:I13834
0.03342247HRV_EIA:I26742
0.03364463SRB_BA:I17913
0.03366564SRB_Mokrin_EBA_Maros:I23205
0.03372935HRV_IA:I5724
0.03380691ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14690
0.03395052Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:E09538
0.03404923HRV_BA:I5080
0.03407322HRV_MBA:I26774
0.03415481HRV_Bezdanjaca_BA:I18725
0.03419451SRB_BA:I17912
0.03427931HRV_Bezdanjaca_BA:I18078
0.03431593HUN_middle_Avar:KD29
0.03434668HRV_EIA:I23995
0.03462794HRV_MBA:I4331
0.03467031HUN_BA:I7040
0.03483448ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_2:I10946
0.03498384MNE_LBA:I13168
0.03518672HRV_IA:I5729
0.03549675MNE_LBA:I13167
0.03550130HUN_La_Tene:I18493
0.03584137ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14692
0.03600475MNE_LBA:I13777
0.03605875BGR_EBA:I2165
0.03606743HRV_MBA:I26726


Distance to:E-V13_SRB_Viminacium:R3931___AD_180
0.03217769HUN_Conqueror_elite:SE64
0.03554580SVK_IA_Vekerzug:I5288
0.03700675CZE_Unetice_C:VLI060.A0101
0.03847034HUN_IA_La_Tene_o:I18182
0.04069055CZE_Unetice_C:MIB002
0.04073869HUN_Conqueror_commoner:HMSZ43
0.04074919HUN_Conqueror_commoner:IBE206
0.04079123England_Dorset_VA:VK263
0.04088222HUN_early_Arpadian_commoner:pLE441
0.04138801CZE_Unetice_C:CHL001
0.04142051HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Transtisza:A181023
0.04274357HUN_early_Arpadian_commoner:IBE106
0.04281483HRV_Bezdanjaca_BA:I18723
0.04307122Bell_Beaker_CZE_late:I7276
0.04310240DNK_Funen_VA:VK313
0.04320524HUN_early_Arpadian_commoner:MH153
0.04338950MNE_IA:I13170
0.04349544CZE_IA_La_Tene:I13780
0.04352016CZE_Early_Slav:RISE569
0.04394392SWE_Gotland_VA:VK454
0.04402821HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ5
0.04414371CZE_Unetice_C:KO1010.A0101
0.04415894RUS_Ladoga_VA:VK16
0.04425476HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Danube-Tisza:A181017
0.04434763CZE_IA_La_Tene:I15950
0.04467676HUN_Conqueror_elite:SP2
0.04468721HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ24
0.04469445NOR_North_VA:VK514
0.04479918HUN_MBA_Fuzesabony:I20750
0.04483699HUN_early_Arpadian_commoner:VPB600
0.04505840HUN_IA_La_Tene_o3:I25509
0.04518057EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK492
0.04531980CZE_IA_La_Tene:I15044
0.04533214HUN_Conqueror_commoner:pLE23
0.04534342Bell_Beaker_CZE_late:I5666
0.04534367HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Transtisza:A181028
0.04541869HUN_late_Avar:TMH798
0.04548495CZE_LBA_Knoviz:I16538
0.04558168CZE_Unetice_C:KO1014.A0101
0.04559201RUS_Ladoga_VA:VK409
0.04560501RUS_Gnezdovo_VA:VK223
0.04567282HUN_Conqueror_elite:AGY75
0.04574451HUN_Conqueror_commoner:SZA29
0.04580998HUN_early_Arpadian_commoner:IBE116
0.04586172CZE_EBA_Unetice:I15825
0.04594200Corded_Ware_CHE:MX195
0.04613207Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I3600
0.04614672SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt036
0.04616912HUN_Conqueror_commoner:HMSZ50
0.04622191HUN_Conqueror_commoner:SH12

 
Hawk said:
It's because you used the sim, and i used the newly added G25 coordinates: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread...-high-mobility&p=883163&viewfull=1#post883163

There is some newly added from HRV and surroundings, maybe someone can map the Y-DNA and samples, because i lost track in so many samples.
Click to expand...
Hawk, I would not waste my time with these puppet accounts, most of them have been opened by entertain and that other banned person. And in what parallel universe do Cetina samples plot "all over the place" let alone like modern Northern Albanians lol putting aside paternal lineage and partial auDNA survival of course.
 
mount123 said:
Hawk, I would not waste my time with these puppet accounts, most of them have been opened by entertain and that other banned person. And in what parallel universe do Cetina samples plot "all over the place" let alone like modern Northern Albanians lol putting aside paternal lineage and partial auDNA survival of course.
Click to expand...

I agree that plotting too close to Early Bronze Age samples is a bit non-believable, especially for Balkans autosomal-wise.

If you want to map and find the G25 coordinates of J2b2-L283 samples, i found kingjohn's compilation: https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...Iron-Age/page9?p=648213&viewfull=1#post648213

Map the ID, Y-DNA and G25 coordinates and run them how they behave: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread...-high-mobility&p=883163&viewfull=1#post883163

But i have no doubt same music will ring to our ears for all J2b2-L283, Western-Balkans/Eastern-Adriatic/Northern-Italian-like.
 
Hawk said:
I agree that plotting too close to Early Bronze Age samples is a bit non-believable, especially for Balkans autosomal-wise.

If you want to map and find the G25 coordinates of J2b2-L283 samples, i found kingjohn's compilation: https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...Iron-Age/page9?p=648213&viewfull=1#post648213

Map the ID, Y-DNA and G25 coordinates and run them how they behave: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread...-high-mobility&p=883163&viewfull=1#post883163

But i have no doubt same music will ring to our ears for all J2b2-L283, Western-Balkans/Eastern-Adriatic/Northern-Italian-like.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the link! The "stable population structure" samples that are of interest to me are fortunately on the aDNA map and the ID of each sample too.

And yes that is what the data has shown thus far and will with other samples that will get published. Also, I'd like to call it what it is, a Proto-Illyrian Cetina profile ;) I am not a fan of using modern nations as a designation for the auDNA profile of an ancient population.
 
Hawk, you should add the following coordinates and you will see the proto-Illyrian role diminish.

MKD_Skopje_Anc:I10379,0.129758,0.149283,0.021873,-0.027132,0.027082,-0.012829,0.005875,0.001846,0.002659,0.034989,-0.001461,0.01169,-0.007284,-0.003716,-0.019137,0.008353,0.029206,-0.002154,0.005656,0.001876,-0.018093,0.002349,-0.002095,0.008435,-0.004311
UKR_Cimmerian_o:MJ12,0.135449,0.138112,0.015462,-0.012274,0.020927,-0.008088,0.00235,-0.007384,-0.006545,0.034625,0.000487,0.008542,-0.008325,-0.008533,-0.014522,0.005171,0.025946,-0.000127,0.011439,0.005878,-0.019091,0.007666,0.004067,0.011929,-0.000239
Click to expand...

These are likely R1b-Z2103 profiles, the samples are female.

MVtQg4l.png


Nassius and Himera I10950 represent the Moesian zone, Nassius on it's western end, and Himera I10950 likely from the eastern zone near the Black Sea.
 
PaleoRevenge said:
Hawk, you should add the following coordinates and you will see the proto-Illyrian role diminish.



These are likely R1b-Z2103 profiles, the samples are female.

MVtQg4l.png


Nassius and Himera I10950 represent the Moesian zone, Nassius on it's western end, and Himera I10950 likely from the eastern zone near the Black Sea.
Click to expand...

I don't think from those two Himeran E-V13 i can envision coming anything eastern than Central Balkans truth be told. Combine judgement between distance and admixture components. You can envision a generic picture where from they could be, specifically unfortunately we are left in void. They were mercenaries, and buried in mass-grave. No indications.
 
Hawk said:
I used this model, it's basically Riverman's model just the name of Channeled Ware was renamed to Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield to reflect and generalize a bit more.
Code: 
Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18213,0.127482,0.149283,0.0445,0.01615,0.040931,0.004183,0.002585,-0.002538,0.01084,0.018041,-0.000974,0.008243,-0.004014,0.002202,-0.007193,-0.00769,-0.013951,0.005701,0.007165,-0.006753,-0.003868,0.000618,-0.008997,-0.014701,0.005748
Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18239,0.12862,0.14319,0.049026,-0.001938,0.047701,0,0.004465,0.000462,0.01309,0.018953,0.006171,0.007493,-0.007582,-0.00234,-0.007057,0.001989,0.007693,0.00114,-0.004274,-5e-04,0.001622,0.004328,-0.005793,-0.010001,0.003952
Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18245,0.133173,0.149283,0.05506,0.026486,0.044931,0.006972,0.011986,0.009,0.01268,0.006743,0.001949,-0.000749,-0.003865,0.003165,-0.004207,0.006099,0.005607,0.002534,0.002137,-0.001126,0.002246,-0.004451,0.000986,-0.005181,-0.010897
Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18246,0.119514,0.149283,0.056945,0.013243,0.047393,0.005578,0.001175,0.003231,0.01309,0.014397,0.002761,0.002398,-0.004906,0.006744,-0.005836,-0.004243,-0.001304,-0.007095,0.005656,-0.000375,-0.009234,0.009521,0.003574,-0.013616,0.003233
Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_LBA:I20749,0.133173,0.136081,0.065242,0.049096,0.048932,0.013387,0.003055,0.006231,0.009408,0.008018,-0.003085,-0.005245,0.000446,0.006193,-0.006922,0.016839,0.024773,-0.004054,-0.007165,0.013381,0.005241,0.001237,0.000863,-0.012893,-0.00934
Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_LBA:I1504,0.125205,0.15436,0.060716,0.033592,0.061242,0.008646,0.00423,0.007615,0.014317,0.007836,-0.004547,-0.006594,0.001041,0.007432,-0.002579,-0.001591,0.010952,-0.002027,0.008547,0.004752,0.004617,0.005317,0.003081,-0.013134,0.000239
Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_LBA:I20751,0.126344,0.142174,0.059962,0.032946,0.051394,0.009482,0.00517,0.003461,0.016157,0.020046,-0.007307,-0.000599,-0.001784,-0.003303,-0.006786,0.018297,0.014603,0.006968,0.004274,0.002626,-0.001497,0.001484,-0.004437,-0.00012,-0.002515
Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_LBA:I20771,0.133173,0.135065,0.061094,0.046512,0.050779,0.016455,0.002585,0.003461,0.010226,0.007472,-0.00065,-0.01109,-0.002676,0.001651,-0.007736,0.017237,0.024773,-0.009755,-0.005154,0.013256,0.00549,0.001237,0.000246,-0.014098,-0.005149
Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_LBA:I20773,0.132035,0.146236,0.064488,0.035207,0.056318,0.01004,0.013631,0.001154,0.018203,0.018953,0.00406,-0.002997,0.003122,-0.003991,0.00285,0.024264,0.004694,0.010515,-0.002765,-0.000875,-0.01984,0.007419,-0.014543,-0.012291,-0.002994
Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_LBA:I25505,0.130897,0.147252,0.064488,0.033592,0.045855,-0.000279,0.003995,0.004154,0.015544,0.01057,-0.007145,0.01169,-0.00223,0.005367,0.001764,-0.012066,-0.008996,0.005828,0.010307,-0.005253,0.004617,0.008285,0.002465,-0.015062,-0.004071
Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe:DA134,0.1161,0.054839,0.037335,0.057817,-0.033852,0.031236,0.00846,0.000231,-0.037223,-0.043554,0.001786,-0.005245,0.000149,-0.026974,0.02348,0.004508,-0.014473,-0.002154,-0.004777,-0.001126,-0.008859,0.01422,0.003697,0.008314,0.005029
Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe:DA136,0.113823,0.039606,0.039221,0.061047,-0.028005,0.020638,-0.007755,0.002077,-0.023111,-0.033349,-0.005521,0.006145,-0.004906,-0.03358,0.021308,0.030496,-0.002738,0.003927,-0.007793,0.009379,-0.010232,0.019166,-0.008011,0.003133,0.003592
Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe:DA139,0.104717,0.051792,0.02753,0.047481,-0.021235,0.015897,0.00094,-0.009461,-0.032724,-0.03262,-0.002111,-0.003597,-0.009217,-0.017478,0.015879,0.009149,0.01343,-0.012669,-0.003897,0.007754,-0.012728,-0.004699,-0.005546,0.009519,-0.000718
Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe:DA141,0.112685,0.039606,0.033564,0.073967,-0.031083,0.031236,0.00658,0.005538,-0.032928,-0.030616,-0.003085,-0.005245,-0.010406,-0.026974,0.018322,0.020021,0.000652,0.000507,-0.001383,-0.005878,-0.003369,0.000866,0.009367,0.014098,-0.000718
Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe:DA143,0.112685,0.054839,0.039598,0.07429,-0.033852,0.030678,0.00094,0.007384,-0.021066,-0.039545,-0.002761,-0.000899,-0.006838,-0.021056,0.019815,0.008221,-0.011735,-0.004814,-0.011187,5e-04,-0.005116,0.000866,0.002711,-0.005302,-0.000239
Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe:DA144,0.10927,0.043668,0.032432,0.076874,-0.022158,0.030678,-0.00893,0.000231,-0.032724,-0.03991,-0.011367,-0.009591,0.010704,-0.02491,0.019679,0.004641,-0.001434,0.001014,0.00088,-0.000375,-0.023583,-0.001113,-0.001356,0.010122,0.011376
CZE_MBA_Tumulus:I16099,0.126344,0.145221,0.064111,0.021641,0.044931,0.010319,0.001175,0.003692,0.015544,0.015855,-0.00341,0.009292,-0.017393,-0.007982,0.00095,0.023999,0.002347,0.005954,-0.001508,0,0.005615,0.004946,-0.008874,-0.01699,-0.005389
CZE_MBA_Tumulus:I16100,0.129758,0.133034,0.061094,0.050065,0.046778,0.016733,0,0.005077,0.008385,-0.002187,-0.005359,0.001798,-0.007284,-0.005505,0.004343,-0.002784,0.002738,-0.003674,-0.001508,-0.005503,0.008735,0.005935,-0.002342,-0.007953,0.002036
CZE_MBA_Tumulus:I16111,0.126344,0.145221,0.053551,0.033269,0.045547,0.01004,0.007755,0.006,0.001227,0.018953,0.005846,0.004196,-0.008176,-0.004266,0.006107,-0.013657,-0.02725,-0.001394,-0.001885,-0.001,0.000125,-0.001607,-0.012078,-0.002048,-0.005987
CZE_MBA_Tumulus:I16112,0.130897,0.142174,0.054305,0.022287,0.047393,0.009203,-0.00047,0.007154,0.002045,0.019499,-0.006008,0.001948,-0.018731,-0.014863,-0.005157,0.001591,-0.005737,-0.000887,-0.000126,-0.001126,-0.003619,-0.005688,-0.005423,-0.007591,-0.002994
Yoruba,-0.6300625,0.0625011,0.022113,0.0167079,0.0005035,0.0124741,-0.044417,0.0477673,-0.0488813,0.0327694,0.0046205,0.0007904,0.0230561,0.0009509,0.0125232,-0.0096067,0.0070763,0.0004491,0.006022,-0.00299,0.0015542,0.0023156,-0.0017592,-0.0004711,-0.0004246
Dai,0.0156507,-0.438709,-0.046763,-0.0609662,0.1201762,0.0622622,0.00047,-0.0073845,-0.0189698,-0.013121,0.0109208,0.0020232,-0.000446,-0.006193,0.0012895,0.0045742,0.0061282,-0.0009502,-0.0043368,-0.011662,0.0121972,0.0090268,0.0149438,0.002892,0.007095
Germanic:DEU_MA,0.1223596,0.1303939,0.061169,0.048773,0.039792,0.0199408,0.010975,0.0052151,0.0013295,-0.0024966,-0.003735,0.001109,-0.0091576,-0.0038398,0.0161643,-0.0008352,-0.0133511,0.0032684,0.0041354,0.0040271,0.0060019,0.0037342,-0.0007273,0.011146,-0.0004429
Germanic:VK2020_NOR_North_IA:VK418,0.125205,0.132019,0.070144,0.064277,0.040315,0.019522,0.00423,0.013846,0.007567,-0.007107,-0.001786,-0.002847,-0.011001,-0.001514,0.031487,-0.005967,-0.029858,-0.0019,0.00352,0.003001,0.010606,0.000371,0,0.003012,-0.000838
Germanic:VK2020_NOR_South_IA:VK391,0.12862,0.141159,0.080327,0.062662,0.047701,0.022311,0.012691,0.011076,-0.003068,-0.015672,-0.012666,-0.004496,-0.002081,-0.007707,0.019679,0.0118,0.004303,0.003547,-0.006159,0.001,0.006988,-0.002597,-0.010723,0.014098,0.011017
CZE_Early_Slav,0.12862,0.129988,0.068259,0.046835,0.02739,0.013387,0.007285,0.014076,-0.001841,-0.018406,-0.000812,-0.004346,0.003717,0.007156,-0.010993,-0.003182,0.011604,-0.002027,-0.002388,-0.004752,0.005615,0.000618,0.001725,-0.000964,-0.006706
ITA_Rome_Latini_IA,0.127482,0.147252,0.033187,-0.016796,0.044008,-0.008646,-0.00376,-0.004846,0.026588,0.052666,-0.002761,0.015137,-0.036719,-0.008533,-0.009093,0.013392,0.016037,-0.004687,0.003897,0.004127,0.00262,-0.00272,0.001972,-0.007712,-0.008742
CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany,0.12862,0.1376045,0.0705215,0.034238,0.0481625,0.004044,0.0019975,0.001385,0.018509,0.019955,-0.012017,-0.0052455,-0.00944,0.0006195,0.0095685,-0.0013255,-0.005998,0.001774,0.0048395,0.0080665,0.001061,0.0019785,-0.0006165,-0.005422,-0.0034725
Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I24342,0.127482,0.138112,0.041483,0.009367,0.038776,-0.006414,-0.002115,0.001385,0.015544,0.023144,0.004384,0.012289,-0.018285,-0.011285,0.0095,0.001724,-0.001043,0.002154,0.001383,0,0.006738,0.005193,-0.00493,-0.001807,-0.001557
Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I26726,0.121791,0.144205,0.032432,-0.012274,0.026466,-0.000279,-0.006815,-0.001154,0.005931,0.030069,0.008444,0.006145,-0.029137,0.001789,-0.000814,-0.017634,-0.01369,-0.000633,0.014078,-0.010505,-0.004617,0.004575,0.002342,0.004458,-0.001317
Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I26773,0.122929,0.144205,0.045254,0.004199,0.023697,-0.006414,-0.006815,-0.005538,0.006136,0.026242,0.002273,0.01169,-0.021853,-0.015414,0.005836,-0.001458,0.007041,0.009375,0.004274,-0.006128,-0.012228,0.003091,-0.00419,0.005543,-0.006347
Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I26774,0.12862,0.149283,0.039221,0.002907,0.033852,0.000279,-0.00282,0.008538,0.008385,0.026242,-0.000812,0.01094,-0.016353,-0.000826,0.001764,-0.006364,-0.002086,0.00076,0.007668,-0.004502,0.000374,0.011994,-0.003821,0.004097,-0.003952
Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I26893,0.129758,0.149283,0.041106,0.013889,0.02739,0.002789,0.00188,0.002077,0.004909,0.023144,-0.007957,0.010491,-0.024975,-0.014588,0.001764,0.005569,0.021383,0.001394,0.006536,0.001876,-0.002995,0.004946,0.002465,0.005302,-0.006347
Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I4331,0.12862,0.151314,0.028284,-0.007429,0.038776,-0.006972,-0.00705,-0.006,0.003681,0.028064,0.006171,0.010341,-0.017542,-0.003578,-0.0076,0.006497,0.008084,-0.003041,0.006159,-0.011631,-0.005865,-0.001113,-0.00037,0.003856,-0.001197
Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I4332,0.120652,0.147252,0.034318,-0.012274,0.038469,0.002231,-0.00423,0.001154,0.009613,0.032074,-0.006008,0.01094,-0.012487,-0.014726,-0.005972,0.01074,0.02047,-0.00114,0.000754,-0.011005,-0.001248,0.008656,-0.00419,0.002048,-0.002395
South_Thrace_local:BGR_IA:I5769,0.126344,0.157407,0.007165,-0.051034,0.029852,-0.02259,0.00423,-0.001385,0.007772,0.032074,-0.001461,0.005695,-0.013974,-0.003028,-0.015065,-0.001458,0.01369,0.006968,0.006285,-0.014757,-0.006239,0.004699,-0.007888,0.003494,-0.008861
GRC_Mycenaean:I9006,0.119514,0.160454,-0.006788,-0.068476,0.014464,-0.03514,-0.003055,-0.006923,-0.002863,0.050115,0.004384,0.015137,-0.009366,0.00289,-0.019815,-0.005304,0.024643,0.007601,0.020992,-0.000375,-0.007487,-0.012365,-0.010969,-0.000602,-0.001796
GRC_Mycenaean:I9010,0.110408,0.160454,-0.015462,-0.071383,0.029544,-0.038487,-0.003525,0.004154,0.013499,0.056129,0.018025,0.017235,-0.00223,-0.00234,-0.023208,-0.005038,0.031553,0.003421,0.005908,-0.004002,-0.006613,0.003215,-0.016145,-0.007109,-0.003113
GRC_Mycenaean:I9033,0.091058,0.150298,-0.004148,-0.050388,0.022773,-0.013387,0.007285,-0.006692,0.003068,0.041003,-0.003573,0.019333,-0.020218,0.005505,-0.006515,-0.026518,0.00678,-0.003167,0.012193,-0.008629,-0.002995,-0.006306,-0.000616,0.005904,0.006945
GRC_Mycenaean:I9041,0.110408,0.15436,-0.006034,-0.068476,0.020004,-0.021475,-0.00282,0.000923,0.007976,0.042097,0.003248,0.016036,-0.019326,-0.008533,-0.016015,-0.002387,0.021122,0.006588,0.010182,-0.002876,-0.006364,0.016199,0.001356,0.006386,-0.00491
Levant_LBN_Roman,0.0887823,0.1447132,-0.0554368,-0.085595,-0.0116175,-0.0282378,-0.0074612,-0.0076152,0.0076698,0.0121642,0.0031262,-0.01139,0.0130822,-0.0017893,-0.0105862,0.0093475,0.002673,-0.0006652,0.0025138,0.0022512,0.000655,0.0059042,-0.0035742,0.0001205,-0.005299
Berber_Tunisia_Chen,-0.0279499,0.1390711,-0.0080871,-0.0764792,0.0277316,-0.0352023,-0.0313867,0.0052818,0.0684246,0.0297957,0.0040057,-0.0043877,0.0196314,-0.0161248,0.0140923,-0.0169052,0.0001521,-0.0232896,-0.0467247,0.0078579,-0.0168314,-0.0404275,0.0281347,-0.0044517,0.0063666
TUR_Ottoman,0.079107,-0.0741335,0.01829,-0.0075905,-0.043085,-0.0133865,0.0029375,0.000808,-0.010124,-0.012119,-0.00885,-0.0063695,-0.0057235,-0.0088075,0.0052255,0,0.007758,0.000887,-0.0018855,-0.000375,-0.0089845,-0.0004325,-0.0096135,-0.001747,0.0003595
ITA_Rome_Imperial,0.1039821,0.1495156,-0.0235307,-0.0574065,0.0045265,-0.0204055,-0.0011946,-0.0051488,0.0006604,0.0196549,0.0034575,0.0025539,-0.0040602,-0.0014737,-0.0081715,-0.0014474,0.0035992,0.000454,0.0012178,-0.0032854,-0.0025579,0.0020454,-0.0006985,-0.0004845,0.0004141
TUR_Alalakh_MLBA,0.0970122,0.1472908,-0.0604988,-0.090117,-0.0156477,-0.0341748,0.0015728,-0.0050412,-0.00306,0.0125111,0.006408,-0.0047555,0.0086109,0.004912,-0.0113588,0.0070272,-0.0005767,0.0018711,0.0047668,-0.002535,0.0021548,0.0038048,-0.0040007,-0.0040968,0.0005988
These are the E-V13 samples:
Code: 
E-V13_SRB_Viminacium:R3931___AD_180,0.127482,0.113739,0.058831,0.049742,0.028928,0.020917,0.004465,-0.000923,0.004295,-0.005832,0.005684,0.000899,0.003717,0.006055,-0.001086,0.01485,0.022817,-0.002534,0.000628,0.000875,-0.013351,0.00371,0.003328,0.001928,-0.008263
E-V13_HRV_Scitarjevo:R3659___AD_313,0.122929,0.153345,0.026021,0,0.024928,-0.009203,-0.003055,-0.004615,0.011658,0.016401,0.006658,0.008692,-0.015015,-0.005092,-0.001357,-0.009944,-0.005085,0.0019,0.006285,-0.011631,-0.004866,0.000989,-0.008134,-0.004699,0.004311
E-V13_SRB_Viminacium:R3931___AD_180,0.127482,0.113739,0.058831,0.049742,0.028928,0.020917,0.004465,-0.000923,0.004295,-0.005832,0.005684,0.000899,0.003717,0.006055,-0.001086,0.01485,0.022817,-0.002534,0.000628,0.000875,-0.013351,0.00371,0.003328,0.001928,-0.008263
E-V13SRB_Naissus:R6764___AD_330,0.120652,0.161469,0.017725,-0.031008,0.040315,-0.018128,0.000705,-0.000923,0.005727,0.037358,0.007307,0.013638,-0.016799,0.003303,-0.019001,0.006364,0.029597,-0.00038,0.010936,-0.004627,-0.007237,-0.002968,-0.006779,-0.004217,-0.010538
Target: E-V13SRB_Naissus:R6764___AD_330
Distance: 1.9737% / 0.01973748
46.6GRC_Mycenaean
18.0Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield
15.8Proto_Illyrian
14.6ITA_Rome_Latini_IA
5.0South_Thrace_local
Target: E-V13_SRB_Viminacium:R3931___AD_180
Distance: 2.3718% / 0.02371829
56.8Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield
21.4Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe
21.2CZE_Early_Slav
0.6Dai
Target: E-V13_HRV_Scitarjevo:R3659___AD_313
Distance: 1.6860% / 0.01685983
43.4Proto_Illyrian
41.4Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield
9.2TUR_Alalakh_MLBA
4.8ITA_Rome_Imperial
1.0Germanic
0.2GRC_Mycenaean
Target: E-V13_SRB_Viminacium:R3931___AD_180
Distance: 2.3718% / 0.02371829
56.8Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield
21.4Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe
21.2CZE_Early_Slav
0.6Dai
Distance to:E-V13SRB_Naissus:R6764___AD_330
0.02956835BGR_TellKran_EBA:I19452
0.03048485BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:I20181
0.03164616BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:I20183
0.03355641HUN_IA_La_Tene_oEast:I18832
0.03391379BGR_TellKran_EBA:I19451
0.03434345HUN_IA_La_Tene_o:I4998
0.03436696MKD_Anc:I10379
0.03520359ALB_PostMA:I15707
0.03582452BGR_TellKran_EBA:I19456
0.03627610Bell_Beaker_ITA:I1979
0.03777057MDA_Trypillia_Late:Gordinesti
0.03781048HUN_early_Avar:SZK102
0.03795038HRV_Pop_CA:pOP39
0.03821662HUN_middle_Avar:ALT224
0.03924864HUN_Avar_Early_Kövegy:I16750
0.03943147BGR_IA:I5769
0.03948875HUN_late_Avar:KK1252
0.04032513ALB_PostMA:I14687
0.04077934MKD_Anc:I10383
0.04093608HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Transtisza:A181027
0.04098993GRC_Mycenaean_Kastrouli_BA:I13577
0.04159031MKD_BA:I7231
0.04166524HUN_middle_Avar:SSD198
0.04192165ALB_MA:I13839
0.04218451ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR111
0.04229528ALB_PostMA:I14686
0.04244024SVK_IA_Vekerzug:I11722
0.04269209ITA_Daunian:ORD009
0.04293508BGR_EBA:I2520
0.04294063SRB_BA:I16803
0.04356579HUN_Avar_Early_Tisza:I18185
0.04412185HUN_IA_Syrmian_SremGroup:I18259
0.04412783ITA_Sicily_Himera_409BCE:I7224
0.04430302Bell_Beaker_CZE_late:pRU001.A0101
0.04451844MKD_Anc:I7233
0.04453600ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16253
0.04456636HUN_middle_Avar:SZK180
0.04461819ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA_o:RMPR437b
0.04468136ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_2:I10950
0.04483439HRV_BA:I5073
0.04488811BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:I20185
0.04506189MKD_Anc:I10388
0.04547564HRV_MBA:I4331
0.04579186HRV_Cetina_BA:I11843
0.04587611MNE_LBA:I13167
0.04589863BGR_EBA:I2175
0.04595396MKD_Anc:I8112
0.04618943HUN_late_Avar:JHT130
0.04630413ITA_Tarquinia_EMA:TAQ022
0.04647217SRB_Mokrin_EBA_Maros:I23205
Distance to:E-V13_SRB_Viminacium:R3931___AD_180
0.03217769HUN_Conqueror_elite:SE64
0.03554580SVK_IA_Vekerzug:I5288
0.03700675CZE_Unetice_C:VLI060.A0101
0.03847034HUN_IA_La_Tene_o:I18182
0.04069055CZE_Unetice_C:MIB002
0.04073869HUN_Conqueror_commoner:HMSZ43
0.04074919HUN_Conqueror_commoner:IBE206
0.04079123England_Dorset_VA:VK263
0.04088222HUN_early_Arpadian_commoner:pLE441
0.04138801CZE_Unetice_C:CHL001
0.04142051HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Transtisza:A181023
0.04274357HUN_early_Arpadian_commoner:IBE106
0.04281483HRV_Bezdanjaca_BA:I18723
0.04307122Bell_Beaker_CZE_late:I7276
0.04310240DNK_Funen_VA:VK313
0.04320524HUN_early_Arpadian_commoner:MH153
0.04338950MNE_IA:I13170
0.04349544CZE_IA_La_Tene:I13780
0.04352016CZE_Early_Slav:RISE569
0.04394392SWE_Gotland_VA:VK454
0.04402821HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ5
0.04414371CZE_Unetice_C:KO1010.A0101
0.04415894RUS_Ladoga_VA:VK16
0.04425476HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Danube-Tisza:A181017
0.04434763CZE_IA_La_Tene:I15950
0.04467676HUN_Conqueror_elite:SP2
0.04468721HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ24
0.04469445NOR_North_VA:VK514
0.04479918HUN_MBA_Fuzesabony:I20750
0.04483699HUN_early_Arpadian_commoner:VPB600
0.04505840HUN_IA_La_Tene_o3:I25509
0.04518057EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK492
0.04531980CZE_IA_La_Tene:I15044
0.04533214HUN_Conqueror_commoner:pLE23
0.04534342Bell_Beaker_CZE_late:I5666
0.04534367HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Transtisza:A181028
0.04541869HUN_late_Avar:TMH798
0.04548495CZE_LBA_Knoviz:I16538
0.04558168CZE_Unetice_C:KO1014.A0101
0.04559201RUS_Ladoga_VA:VK409
0.04560501RUS_Gnezdovo_VA:VK223
0.04567282HUN_Conqueror_elite:AGY75
0.04574451HUN_Conqueror_commoner:SZA29
0.04580998HUN_early_Arpadian_commoner:IBE116
0.04586172CZE_EBA_Unetice:I15825
0.04594200Corded_Ware_CHE:MX195
0.04613207Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I3600
0.04614672SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt036
0.04616912HUN_Conqueror_commoner:HMSZ50
0.04622191HUN_Conqueror_commoner:SH12
Distance to:E-V13_HRV_Scitarjevo:R3659___AD_313
0.02701560HRV_BA:I18712
0.02856340HRV_EIA:I24639
0.02872609HRV_Cetina_BA:I18746
0.02887358ITA_Collegno_MA:CL23
0.02933023ITA_Proto-Villanovan:RMPR1
0.02958145MKD_Anc:I10385
0.02987903HRV_Cetina_BA:I19027
0.03013615HRV_BA:I5074
0.03039465HRV_Bezdanjaca_BA:I18737
0.03043954DEU_MA_Alemannic_o1:NIEcap3b
0.03047628HRV_Cetina_BA:I18747
0.03056300HUN_LBA_EIA:I11683
0.03057180MKD_Anc:I10384
0.03100311MNE_LBA:I13778
0.03106235MNE_LBA:I13172
0.03135910HRV_EIA:I23996
0.03148367HRV_Cetina_BA:I18752
0.03169412HRV_Cetina_BA:I18745
0.03223057HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ28
0.03235432HUN_early_Avar:MS45
0.03269025ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR105
0.03280165CZE_IA_La_Tene:I17139
0.03295328HUN_Conqueror_elite:SE114
0.03301400SVN_EIA:I5692
0.03301461HRV_IA:I3313
0.03315100ALB_MA:I13834
0.03342247HRV_EIA:I26742
0.03364463SRB_BA:I17913
0.03366564SRB_Mokrin_EBA_Maros:I23205
0.03372935HRV_IA:I5724
0.03380691ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14690
0.03395052Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:E09538
0.03404923HRV_BA:I5080
0.03407322HRV_MBA:I26774
0.03415481HRV_Bezdanjaca_BA:I18725
0.03419451SRB_BA:I17912
0.03427931HRV_Bezdanjaca_BA:I18078
0.03431593HUN_middle_Avar:KD29
0.03434668HRV_EIA:I23995
0.03462794HRV_MBA:I4331
0.03467031HUN_BA:I7040
0.03483448ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_2:I10946
0.03498384MNE_LBA:I13168
0.03518672HRV_IA:I5729
0.03549675MNE_LBA:I13167
0.03550130HUN_La_Tene:I18493
0.03584137ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14692
0.03600475MNE_LBA:I13777
0.03605875BGR_EBA:I2165
0.03606743HRV_MBA:I26726
Distance to:E-V13_SRB_Viminacium:R3931___AD_180
0.03217769HUN_Conqueror_elite:SE64
0.03554580SVK_IA_Vekerzug:I5288
0.03700675CZE_Unetice_C:VLI060.A0101
0.03847034HUN_IA_La_Tene_o:I18182
0.04069055CZE_Unetice_C:MIB002
0.04073869HUN_Conqueror_commoner:HMSZ43
0.04074919HUN_Conqueror_commoner:IBE206
0.04079123England_Dorset_VA:VK263
0.04088222HUN_early_Arpadian_commoner:pLE441
0.04138801CZE_Unetice_C:CHL001
0.04142051HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Transtisza:A181023
0.04274357HUN_early_Arpadian_commoner:IBE106
0.04281483HRV_Bezdanjaca_BA:I18723
0.04307122Bell_Beaker_CZE_late:I7276
0.04310240DNK_Funen_VA:VK313
0.04320524HUN_early_Arpadian_commoner:MH153
0.04338950MNE_IA:I13170
0.04349544CZE_IA_La_Tene:I13780
0.04352016CZE_Early_Slav:RISE569
0.04394392SWE_Gotland_VA:VK454
0.04402821HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ5
0.04414371CZE_Unetice_C:KO1010.A0101
0.04415894RUS_Ladoga_VA:VK16
0.04425476HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Danube-Tisza:A181017
0.04434763CZE_IA_La_Tene:I15950
0.04467676HUN_Conqueror_elite:SP2
0.04468721HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ24
0.04469445NOR_North_VA:VK514
0.04479918HUN_MBA_Fuzesabony:I20750
0.04483699HUN_early_Arpadian_commoner:VPB600
0.04505840HUN_IA_La_Tene_o3:I25509
0.04518057EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK492
0.04531980CZE_IA_La_Tene:I15044
0.04533214HUN_Conqueror_commoner:pLE23
0.04534342Bell_Beaker_CZE_late:I5666
0.04534367HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Transtisza:A181028
0.04541869HUN_late_Avar:TMH798
0.04548495CZE_LBA_Knoviz:I16538
0.04558168CZE_Unetice_C:KO1014.A0101
0.04559201RUS_Ladoga_VA:VK409
0.04560501RUS_Gnezdovo_VA:VK223
0.04567282HUN_Conqueror_elite:AGY75
0.04574451HUN_Conqueror_commoner:SZA29
0.04580998HUN_early_Arpadian_commoner:IBE116
0.04586172CZE_EBA_Unetice:I15825
0.04594200Corded_Ware_CHE:MX195
0.04613207Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I3600
0.04614672SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt036
0.04616912HUN_Conqueror_commoner:HMSZ50
0.04622191HUN_Conqueror_commoner:SH12
Click to expand...
thanks ....me below
Distance to: Veritus_scaled
0.02790803 Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I26774
0.03349606 Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I26726
0.03514283 Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18213
0.04182106 Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I4331
0.04290291 Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I24342
0.04439763 Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18239
0.04598773 Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18246
0.04643187 Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I26773
0.05118026 Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I4332
0.05235341 CZE_MBA_Tumulus:I16112
0.05470529 CZE_MBA_Tumulus:I16111
0.05513807 Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I26893
0.05727284 Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18245
0.06057024 Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_LBA:I25505
0.06678416 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany
0.06762352 CZE_MBA_Tumulus:I16099
0.06872888 Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_LBA:I20751
0.06997497 Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_LBA:I1504
0.07145475 South_Thrace_local:BGR_IA:I5769
0.07296134 ITA_Rome_Latini_IA
0.07613313 CZE_MBA_Tumulus:I16100
0.07618174 Germanic:DEU_MA
0.07950179 Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_LBA:I20773
0.08256922 GRC_Mycenaean:I9033
0.08588754 CZE_Early_Slav

Target: Veritus_scaled
Distance: 0.0131% / 0.01305974
29.5 Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield
25.8 Proto_Illyrian
12.1 Germanic
10.9 South_Thrace_local
8.8 Levant_LBN_Roman
8.3 CZE_MBA_Tumulus
3.0 GRC_Mycenaean
1.6 CZE_Early_Slav


I was always told I was north-pannonian in the bronze and early iron age ...............................if you add sample R1 ....I would have that Liburnian as well as a close match and also sample SZ1
 
Hawk said:
I used this model, it's basically Riverman's model just the name of Channeled Ware was renamed to Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield to reflect and generalize a bit more.

Code: 
Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18213,0.127482,0.149283,0.0445,0.01615,0.040931,0.004183,0.002585,-0.002538,0.01084,0.018041,-0.000974,0.008243,-0.004014,0.002202,-0.007193,-0.00769,-0.013951,0.005701,0.007165,-0.006753,-0.003868,0.000618,-0.008997,-0.014701,0.005748
Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18239,0.12862,0.14319,0.049026,-0.001938,0.047701,0,0.004465,0.000462,0.01309,0.018953,0.006171,0.007493,-0.007582,-0.00234,-0.007057,0.001989,0.007693,0.00114,-0.004274,-5e-04,0.001622,0.004328,-0.005793,-0.010001,0.003952
Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18245,0.133173,0.149283,0.05506,0.026486,0.044931,0.006972,0.011986,0.009,0.01268,0.006743,0.001949,-0.000749,-0.003865,0.003165,-0.004207,0.006099,0.005607,0.002534,0.002137,-0.001126,0.002246,-0.004451,0.000986,-0.005181,-0.010897
Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18246,0.119514,0.149283,0.056945,0.013243,0.047393,0.005578,0.001175,0.003231,0.01309,0.014397,0.002761,0.002398,-0.004906,0.006744,-0.005836,-0.004243,-0.001304,-0.007095,0.005656,-0.000375,-0.009234,0.009521,0.003574,-0.013616,0.003233
Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_LBA:I20749,0.133173,0.136081,0.065242,0.049096,0.048932,0.013387,0.003055,0.006231,0.009408,0.008018,-0.003085,-0.005245,0.000446,0.006193,-0.006922,0.016839,0.024773,-0.004054,-0.007165,0.013381,0.005241,0.001237,0.000863,-0.012893,-0.00934
Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_LBA:I1504,0.125205,0.15436,0.060716,0.033592,0.061242,0.008646,0.00423,0.007615,0.014317,0.007836,-0.004547,-0.006594,0.001041,0.007432,-0.002579,-0.001591,0.010952,-0.002027,0.008547,0.004752,0.004617,0.005317,0.003081,-0.013134,0.000239
Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_LBA:I20751,0.126344,0.142174,0.059962,0.032946,0.051394,0.009482,0.00517,0.003461,0.016157,0.020046,-0.007307,-0.000599,-0.001784,-0.003303,-0.006786,0.018297,0.014603,0.006968,0.004274,0.002626,-0.001497,0.001484,-0.004437,-0.00012,-0.002515
Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_LBA:I20771,0.133173,0.135065,0.061094,0.046512,0.050779,0.016455,0.002585,0.003461,0.010226,0.007472,-0.00065,-0.01109,-0.002676,0.001651,-0.007736,0.017237,0.024773,-0.009755,-0.005154,0.013256,0.00549,0.001237,0.000246,-0.014098,-0.005149
Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_LBA:I20773,0.132035,0.146236,0.064488,0.035207,0.056318,0.01004,0.013631,0.001154,0.018203,0.018953,0.00406,-0.002997,0.003122,-0.003991,0.00285,0.024264,0.004694,0.010515,-0.002765,-0.000875,-0.01984,0.007419,-0.014543,-0.012291,-0.002994
Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield:HUN_LBA:I25505,0.130897,0.147252,0.064488,0.033592,0.045855,-0.000279,0.003995,0.004154,0.015544,0.01057,-0.007145,0.01169,-0.00223,0.005367,0.001764,-0.012066,-0.008996,0.005828,0.010307,-0.005253,0.004617,0.008285,0.002465,-0.015062,-0.004071
Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe:DA134,0.1161,0.054839,0.037335,0.057817,-0.033852,0.031236,0.00846,0.000231,-0.037223,-0.043554,0.001786,-0.005245,0.000149,-0.026974,0.02348,0.004508,-0.014473,-0.002154,-0.004777,-0.001126,-0.008859,0.01422,0.003697,0.008314,0.005029
Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe:DA136,0.113823,0.039606,0.039221,0.061047,-0.028005,0.020638,-0.007755,0.002077,-0.023111,-0.033349,-0.005521,0.006145,-0.004906,-0.03358,0.021308,0.030496,-0.002738,0.003927,-0.007793,0.009379,-0.010232,0.019166,-0.008011,0.003133,0.003592
Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe:DA139,0.104717,0.051792,0.02753,0.047481,-0.021235,0.015897,0.00094,-0.009461,-0.032724,-0.03262,-0.002111,-0.003597,-0.009217,-0.017478,0.015879,0.009149,0.01343,-0.012669,-0.003897,0.007754,-0.012728,-0.004699,-0.005546,0.009519,-0.000718
Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe:DA141,0.112685,0.039606,0.033564,0.073967,-0.031083,0.031236,0.00658,0.005538,-0.032928,-0.030616,-0.003085,-0.005245,-0.010406,-0.026974,0.018322,0.020021,0.000652,0.000507,-0.001383,-0.005878,-0.003369,0.000866,0.009367,0.014098,-0.000718
Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe:DA143,0.112685,0.054839,0.039598,0.07429,-0.033852,0.030678,0.00094,0.007384,-0.021066,-0.039545,-0.002761,-0.000899,-0.006838,-0.021056,0.019815,0.008221,-0.011735,-0.004814,-0.011187,5e-04,-0.005116,0.000866,0.002711,-0.005302,-0.000239
Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe:DA144,0.10927,0.043668,0.032432,0.076874,-0.022158,0.030678,-0.00893,0.000231,-0.032724,-0.03991,-0.011367,-0.009591,0.010704,-0.02491,0.019679,0.004641,-0.001434,0.001014,0.00088,-0.000375,-0.023583,-0.001113,-0.001356,0.010122,0.011376
CZE_MBA_Tumulus:I16099,0.126344,0.145221,0.064111,0.021641,0.044931,0.010319,0.001175,0.003692,0.015544,0.015855,-0.00341,0.009292,-0.017393,-0.007982,0.00095,0.023999,0.002347,0.005954,-0.001508,0,0.005615,0.004946,-0.008874,-0.01699,-0.005389
CZE_MBA_Tumulus:I16100,0.129758,0.133034,0.061094,0.050065,0.046778,0.016733,0,0.005077,0.008385,-0.002187,-0.005359,0.001798,-0.007284,-0.005505,0.004343,-0.002784,0.002738,-0.003674,-0.001508,-0.005503,0.008735,0.005935,-0.002342,-0.007953,0.002036
CZE_MBA_Tumulus:I16111,0.126344,0.145221,0.053551,0.033269,0.045547,0.01004,0.007755,0.006,0.001227,0.018953,0.005846,0.004196,-0.008176,-0.004266,0.006107,-0.013657,-0.02725,-0.001394,-0.001885,-0.001,0.000125,-0.001607,-0.012078,-0.002048,-0.005987
CZE_MBA_Tumulus:I16112,0.130897,0.142174,0.054305,0.022287,0.047393,0.009203,-0.00047,0.007154,0.002045,0.019499,-0.006008,0.001948,-0.018731,-0.014863,-0.005157,0.001591,-0.005737,-0.000887,-0.000126,-0.001126,-0.003619,-0.005688,-0.005423,-0.007591,-0.002994
Yoruba,-0.6300625,0.0625011,0.022113,0.0167079,0.0005035,0.0124741,-0.044417,0.0477673,-0.0488813,0.0327694,0.0046205,0.0007904,0.0230561,0.0009509,0.0125232,-0.0096067,0.0070763,0.0004491,0.006022,-0.00299,0.0015542,0.0023156,-0.0017592,-0.0004711,-0.0004246
Dai,0.0156507,-0.438709,-0.046763,-0.0609662,0.1201762,0.0622622,0.00047,-0.0073845,-0.0189698,-0.013121,0.0109208,0.0020232,-0.000446,-0.006193,0.0012895,0.0045742,0.0061282,-0.0009502,-0.0043368,-0.011662,0.0121972,0.0090268,0.0149438,0.002892,0.007095
Germanic:DEU_MA,0.1223596,0.1303939,0.061169,0.048773,0.039792,0.0199408,0.010975,0.0052151,0.0013295,-0.0024966,-0.003735,0.001109,-0.0091576,-0.0038398,0.0161643,-0.0008352,-0.0133511,0.0032684,0.0041354,0.0040271,0.0060019,0.0037342,-0.0007273,0.011146,-0.0004429
Germanic:VK2020_NOR_North_IA:VK418,0.125205,0.132019,0.070144,0.064277,0.040315,0.019522,0.00423,0.013846,0.007567,-0.007107,-0.001786,-0.002847,-0.011001,-0.001514,0.031487,-0.005967,-0.029858,-0.0019,0.00352,0.003001,0.010606,0.000371,0,0.003012,-0.000838
Germanic:VK2020_NOR_South_IA:VK391,0.12862,0.141159,0.080327,0.062662,0.047701,0.022311,0.012691,0.011076,-0.003068,-0.015672,-0.012666,-0.004496,-0.002081,-0.007707,0.019679,0.0118,0.004303,0.003547,-0.006159,0.001,0.006988,-0.002597,-0.010723,0.014098,0.011017
CZE_Early_Slav,0.12862,0.129988,0.068259,0.046835,0.02739,0.013387,0.007285,0.014076,-0.001841,-0.018406,-0.000812,-0.004346,0.003717,0.007156,-0.010993,-0.003182,0.011604,-0.002027,-0.002388,-0.004752,0.005615,0.000618,0.001725,-0.000964,-0.006706
ITA_Rome_Latini_IA,0.127482,0.147252,0.033187,-0.016796,0.044008,-0.008646,-0.00376,-0.004846,0.026588,0.052666,-0.002761,0.015137,-0.036719,-0.008533,-0.009093,0.013392,0.016037,-0.004687,0.003897,0.004127,0.00262,-0.00272,0.001972,-0.007712,-0.008742
CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany,0.12862,0.1376045,0.0705215,0.034238,0.0481625,0.004044,0.0019975,0.001385,0.018509,0.019955,-0.012017,-0.0052455,-0.00944,0.0006195,0.0095685,-0.0013255,-0.005998,0.001774,0.0048395,0.0080665,0.001061,0.0019785,-0.0006165,-0.005422,-0.0034725
Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I24342,0.127482,0.138112,0.041483,0.009367,0.038776,-0.006414,-0.002115,0.001385,0.015544,0.023144,0.004384,0.012289,-0.018285,-0.011285,0.0095,0.001724,-0.001043,0.002154,0.001383,0,0.006738,0.005193,-0.00493,-0.001807,-0.001557
Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I26726,0.121791,0.144205,0.032432,-0.012274,0.026466,-0.000279,-0.006815,-0.001154,0.005931,0.030069,0.008444,0.006145,-0.029137,0.001789,-0.000814,-0.017634,-0.01369,-0.000633,0.014078,-0.010505,-0.004617,0.004575,0.002342,0.004458,-0.001317
Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I26773,0.122929,0.144205,0.045254,0.004199,0.023697,-0.006414,-0.006815,-0.005538,0.006136,0.026242,0.002273,0.01169,-0.021853,-0.015414,0.005836,-0.001458,0.007041,0.009375,0.004274,-0.006128,-0.012228,0.003091,-0.00419,0.005543,-0.006347
Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I26774,0.12862,0.149283,0.039221,0.002907,0.033852,0.000279,-0.00282,0.008538,0.008385,0.026242,-0.000812,0.01094,-0.016353,-0.000826,0.001764,-0.006364,-0.002086,0.00076,0.007668,-0.004502,0.000374,0.011994,-0.003821,0.004097,-0.003952
Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I26893,0.129758,0.149283,0.041106,0.013889,0.02739,0.002789,0.00188,0.002077,0.004909,0.023144,-0.007957,0.010491,-0.024975,-0.014588,0.001764,0.005569,0.021383,0.001394,0.006536,0.001876,-0.002995,0.004946,0.002465,0.005302,-0.006347
Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I4331,0.12862,0.151314,0.028284,-0.007429,0.038776,-0.006972,-0.00705,-0.006,0.003681,0.028064,0.006171,0.010341,-0.017542,-0.003578,-0.0076,0.006497,0.008084,-0.003041,0.006159,-0.011631,-0.005865,-0.001113,-0.00037,0.003856,-0.001197
Proto_Illyrian:HRV_MBA:I4332,0.120652,0.147252,0.034318,-0.012274,0.038469,0.002231,-0.00423,0.001154,0.009613,0.032074,-0.006008,0.01094,-0.012487,-0.014726,-0.005972,0.01074,0.02047,-0.00114,0.000754,-0.011005,-0.001248,0.008656,-0.00419,0.002048,-0.002395
South_Thrace_local:BGR_IA:I5769,0.126344,0.157407,0.007165,-0.051034,0.029852,-0.02259,0.00423,-0.001385,0.007772,0.032074,-0.001461,0.005695,-0.013974,-0.003028,-0.015065,-0.001458,0.01369,0.006968,0.006285,-0.014757,-0.006239,0.004699,-0.007888,0.003494,-0.008861
GRC_Mycenaean:I9006,0.119514,0.160454,-0.006788,-0.068476,0.014464,-0.03514,-0.003055,-0.006923,-0.002863,0.050115,0.004384,0.015137,-0.009366,0.00289,-0.019815,-0.005304,0.024643,0.007601,0.020992,-0.000375,-0.007487,-0.012365,-0.010969,-0.000602,-0.001796
GRC_Mycenaean:I9010,0.110408,0.160454,-0.015462,-0.071383,0.029544,-0.038487,-0.003525,0.004154,0.013499,0.056129,0.018025,0.017235,-0.00223,-0.00234,-0.023208,-0.005038,0.031553,0.003421,0.005908,-0.004002,-0.006613,0.003215,-0.016145,-0.007109,-0.003113
GRC_Mycenaean:I9033,0.091058,0.150298,-0.004148,-0.050388,0.022773,-0.013387,0.007285,-0.006692,0.003068,0.041003,-0.003573,0.019333,-0.020218,0.005505,-0.006515,-0.026518,0.00678,-0.003167,0.012193,-0.008629,-0.002995,-0.006306,-0.000616,0.005904,0.006945
GRC_Mycenaean:I9041,0.110408,0.15436,-0.006034,-0.068476,0.020004,-0.021475,-0.00282,0.000923,0.007976,0.042097,0.003248,0.016036,-0.019326,-0.008533,-0.016015,-0.002387,0.021122,0.006588,0.010182,-0.002876,-0.006364,0.016199,0.001356,0.006386,-0.00491
Levant_LBN_Roman,0.0887823,0.1447132,-0.0554368,-0.085595,-0.0116175,-0.0282378,-0.0074612,-0.0076152,0.0076698,0.0121642,0.0031262,-0.01139,0.0130822,-0.0017893,-0.0105862,0.0093475,0.002673,-0.0006652,0.0025138,0.0022512,0.000655,0.0059042,-0.0035742,0.0001205,-0.005299
Berber_Tunisia_Chen,-0.0279499,0.1390711,-0.0080871,-0.0764792,0.0277316,-0.0352023,-0.0313867,0.0052818,0.0684246,0.0297957,0.0040057,-0.0043877,0.0196314,-0.0161248,0.0140923,-0.0169052,0.0001521,-0.0232896,-0.0467247,0.0078579,-0.0168314,-0.0404275,0.0281347,-0.0044517,0.0063666
TUR_Ottoman,0.079107,-0.0741335,0.01829,-0.0075905,-0.043085,-0.0133865,0.0029375,0.000808,-0.010124,-0.012119,-0.00885,-0.0063695,-0.0057235,-0.0088075,0.0052255,0,0.007758,0.000887,-0.0018855,-0.000375,-0.0089845,-0.0004325,-0.0096135,-0.001747,0.0003595
ITA_Rome_Imperial,0.1039821,0.1495156,-0.0235307,-0.0574065,0.0045265,-0.0204055,-0.0011946,-0.0051488,0.0006604,0.0196549,0.0034575,0.0025539,-0.0040602,-0.0014737,-0.0081715,-0.0014474,0.0035992,0.000454,0.0012178,-0.0032854,-0.0025579,0.0020454,-0.0006985,-0.0004845,0.0004141
TUR_Alalakh_MLBA,0.0970122,0.1472908,-0.0604988,-0.090117,-0.0156477,-0.0341748,0.0015728,-0.0050412,-0.00306,0.0125111,0.006408,-0.0047555,0.0086109,0.004912,-0.0113588,0.0070272,-0.0005767,0.0018711,0.0047668,-0.002535,0.0021548,0.0038048,-0.0040007,-0.0040968,0.0005988

These are the E-V13 samples:

Code: 
E-V13_SRB_Viminacium:R3931___AD_180,0.127482,0.113739,0.058831,0.049742,0.028928,0.020917,0.004465,-0.000923,0.004295,-0.005832,0.005684,0.000899,0.003717,0.006055,-0.001086,0.01485,0.022817,-0.002534,0.000628,0.000875,-0.013351,0.00371,0.003328,0.001928,-0.008263
E-V13_HRV_Scitarjevo:R3659___AD_313,0.122929,0.153345,0.026021,0,0.024928,-0.009203,-0.003055,-0.004615,0.011658,0.016401,0.006658,0.008692,-0.015015,-0.005092,-0.001357,-0.009944,-0.005085,0.0019,0.006285,-0.011631,-0.004866,0.000989,-0.008134,-0.004699,0.004311
E-V13_SRB_Viminacium:R3931___AD_180,0.127482,0.113739,0.058831,0.049742,0.028928,0.020917,0.004465,-0.000923,0.004295,-0.005832,0.005684,0.000899,0.003717,0.006055,-0.001086,0.01485,0.022817,-0.002534,0.000628,0.000875,-0.013351,0.00371,0.003328,0.001928,-0.008263
E-V13SRB_Naissus:R6764___AD_330,0.120652,0.161469,0.017725,-0.031008,0.040315,-0.018128,0.000705,-0.000923,0.005727,0.037358,0.007307,0.013638,-0.016799,0.003303,-0.019001,0.006364,0.029597,-0.00038,0.010936,-0.004627,-0.007237,-0.002968,-0.006779,-0.004217,-0.010538



Target: E-V13SRB_Naissus:R6764___AD_330
Distance: 1.9737% / 0.01973748
46.6GRC_Mycenaean
18.0Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield
15.8Proto_Illyrian
14.6ITA_Rome_Latini_IA
5.0South_Thrace_local


Target: E-V13_SRB_Viminacium:R3931___AD_180
Distance: 2.3718% / 0.02371829
56.8Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield
21.4Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe
21.2CZE_Early_Slav
0.6Dai


Target: E-V13_HRV_Scitarjevo:R3659___AD_313
Distance: 1.6860% / 0.01685983
43.4Proto_Illyrian
41.4Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield
9.2TUR_Alalakh_MLBA
4.8ITA_Rome_Imperial
1.0Germanic
0.2GRC_Mycenaean


Target: E-V13_SRB_Viminacium:R3931___AD_180
Distance: 2.3718% / 0.02371829
56.8Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield
21.4Sarmatian_RUS_Caspian_steppe
21.2CZE_Early_Slav
0.6Dai


Distance to:E-V13SRB_Naissus:R6764___AD_330
0.02956835BGR_TellKran_EBA:I19452
0.03048485BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:I20181
0.03164616BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:I20183
0.03355641HUN_IA_La_Tene_oEast:I18832
0.03391379BGR_TellKran_EBA:I19451
0.03434345HUN_IA_La_Tene_o:I4998
0.03436696MKD_Anc:I10379
0.03520359ALB_PostMA:I15707
0.03582452BGR_TellKran_EBA:I19456
0.03627610Bell_Beaker_ITA:I1979
0.03777057MDA_Trypillia_Late:Gordinesti
0.03781048HUN_early_Avar:SZK102
0.03795038HRV_Pop_CA:pOP39
0.03821662HUN_middle_Avar:ALT224
0.03924864HUN_Avar_Early_Kövegy:I16750
0.03943147BGR_IA:I5769
0.03948875HUN_late_Avar:KK1252
0.04032513ALB_PostMA:I14687
0.04077934MKD_Anc:I10383
0.04093608HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Transtisza:A181027
0.04098993GRC_Mycenaean_Kastrouli_BA:I13577
0.04159031MKD_BA:I7231
0.04166524HUN_middle_Avar:SSD198
0.04192165ALB_MA:I13839
0.04218451ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR111
0.04229528ALB_PostMA:I14686
0.04244024SVK_IA_Vekerzug:I11722
0.04269209ITA_Daunian:ORD009
0.04293508BGR_EBA:I2520
0.04294063SRB_BA:I16803
0.04356579HUN_Avar_Early_Tisza:I18185
0.04412185HUN_IA_Syrmian_SremGroup:I18259
0.04412783ITA_Sicily_Himera_409BCE:I7224
0.04430302Bell_Beaker_CZE_late:pRU001.A0101
0.04451844MKD_Anc:I7233
0.04453600ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16253
0.04456636HUN_middle_Avar:SZK180
0.04461819ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA_o:RMPR437b
0.04468136ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_2:I10950
0.04483439HRV_BA:I5073
0.04488811BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:I20185
0.04506189MKD_Anc:I10388
0.04547564HRV_MBA:I4331
0.04579186HRV_Cetina_BA:I11843
0.04587611MNE_LBA:I13167
0.04589863BGR_EBA:I2175
0.04595396MKD_Anc:I8112
0.04618943HUN_late_Avar:JHT130
0.04630413ITA_Tarquinia_EMA:TAQ022
0.04647217SRB_Mokrin_EBA_Maros:I23205

Distance to:E-V13_SRB_Viminacium:R3931___AD_180
0.03217769HUN_Conqueror_elite:SE64
0.03554580SVK_IA_Vekerzug:I5288
0.03700675CZE_Unetice_C:VLI060.A0101
0.03847034HUN_IA_La_Tene_o:I18182
0.04069055CZE_Unetice_C:MIB002
0.04073869HUN_Conqueror_commoner:HMSZ43
0.04074919HUN_Conqueror_commoner:IBE206
0.04079123England_Dorset_VA:VK263
0.04088222HUN_early_Arpadian_commoner:pLE441
0.04138801CZE_Unetice_C:CHL001
0.04142051HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Transtisza:A181023
0.04274357HUN_early_Arpadian_commoner:IBE106
0.04281483HRV_Bezdanjaca_BA:I18723
0.04307122Bell_Beaker_CZE_late:I7276
0.04310240DNK_Funen_VA:VK313
0.04320524HUN_early_Arpadian_commoner:MH153
0.04338950MNE_IA:I13170
0.04349544CZE_IA_La_Tene:I13780
0.04352016CZE_Early_Slav:RISE569
0.04394392SWE_Gotland_VA:VK454
0.04402821HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ5
0.04414371CZE_Unetice_C:KO1010.A0101
0.04415894RUS_Ladoga_VA:VK16
0.04425476HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Danube-Tisza:A181017
0.04434763CZE_IA_La_Tene:I15950
0.04467676HUN_Conqueror_elite:SP2
0.04468721HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ24
0.04469445NOR_North_VA:VK514
0.04479918HUN_MBA_Fuzesabony:I20750
0.04483699HUN_early_Arpadian_commoner:VPB600
0.04505840HUN_IA_La_Tene_o3:I25509
0.04518057EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK492
0.04531980CZE_IA_La_Tene:I15044
0.04533214HUN_Conqueror_commoner:pLE23
0.04534342Bell_Beaker_CZE_late:I5666
0.04534367HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Transtisza:A181028
0.04541869HUN_late_Avar:TMH798
0.04548495CZE_LBA_Knoviz:I16538
0.04558168CZE_Unetice_C:KO1014.A0101
0.04559201RUS_Ladoga_VA:VK409
0.04560501RUS_Gnezdovo_VA:VK223
0.04567282HUN_Conqueror_elite:AGY75
0.04574451HUN_Conqueror_commoner:SZA29
0.04580998HUN_early_Arpadian_commoner:IBE116
0.04586172CZE_EBA_Unetice:I15825
0.04594200Corded_Ware_CHE:MX195
0.04613207Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I3600
0.04614672SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt036
0.04616912HUN_Conqueror_commoner:HMSZ50
0.04622191HUN_Conqueror_commoner:SH12

Distance to:E-V13_HRV_Scitarjevo:R3659___AD_313
0.02701560HRV_BA:I18712
0.02856340HRV_EIA:I24639
0.02872609HRV_Cetina_BA:I18746
0.02887358ITA_Collegno_MA:CL23
0.02933023ITA_Proto-Villanovan:RMPR1
0.02958145MKD_Anc:I10385
0.02987903HRV_Cetina_BA:I19027
0.03013615HRV_BA:I5074
0.03039465HRV_Bezdanjaca_BA:I18737
0.03043954DEU_MA_Alemannic_o1:NIEcap3b
0.03047628HRV_Cetina_BA:I18747
0.03056300HUN_LBA_EIA:I11683
0.03057180MKD_Anc:I10384
0.03100311MNE_LBA:I13778
0.03106235MNE_LBA:I13172
0.03135910HRV_EIA:I23996
0.03148367HRV_Cetina_BA:I18752
0.03169412HRV_Cetina_BA:I18745
0.03223057HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ28
0.03235432HUN_early_Avar:MS45
0.03269025ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR105
0.03280165CZE_IA_La_Tene:I17139
0.03295328HUN_Conqueror_elite:SE114
0.03301400SVN_EIA:I5692
0.03301461HRV_IA:I3313
0.03315100ALB_MA:I13834
0.03342247HRV_EIA:I26742
0.03364463SRB_BA:I17913
0.03366564SRB_Mokrin_EBA_Maros:I23205
0.03372935HRV_IA:I5724
0.03380691ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14690
0.03395052Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:E09538
0.03404923HRV_BA:I5080
0.03407322HRV_MBA:I26774
0.03415481HRV_Bezdanjaca_BA:I18725
0.03419451SRB_BA:I17912
0.03427931HRV_Bezdanjaca_BA:I18078
0.03431593HUN_middle_Avar:KD29
0.03434668HRV_EIA:I23995
0.03462794HRV_MBA:I4331
0.03467031HUN_BA:I7040
0.03483448ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_2:I10946
0.03498384MNE_LBA:I13168
0.03518672HRV_IA:I5729
0.03549675MNE_LBA:I13167
0.03550130HUN_La_Tene:I18493
0.03584137ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14692
0.03600475MNE_LBA:I13777
0.03605875BGR_EBA:I2165
0.03606743HRV_MBA:I26726

Distance to:E-V13_SRB_Viminacium:R3931___AD_180
0.03217769HUN_Conqueror_elite:SE64
0.03554580SVK_IA_Vekerzug:I5288
0.03700675CZE_Unetice_C:VLI060.A0101
0.03847034HUN_IA_La_Tene_o:I18182
0.04069055CZE_Unetice_C:MIB002
0.04073869HUN_Conqueror_commoner:HMSZ43
0.04074919HUN_Conqueror_commoner:IBE206
0.04079123England_Dorset_VA:VK263
0.04088222HUN_early_Arpadian_commoner:pLE441
0.04138801CZE_Unetice_C:CHL001
0.04142051HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Transtisza:A181023
0.04274357HUN_early_Arpadian_commoner:IBE106
0.04281483HRV_Bezdanjaca_BA:I18723
0.04307122Bell_Beaker_CZE_late:I7276
0.04310240DNK_Funen_VA:VK313
0.04320524HUN_early_Arpadian_commoner:MH153
0.04338950MNE_IA:I13170
0.04349544CZE_IA_La_Tene:I13780
0.04352016CZE_Early_Slav:RISE569
0.04394392SWE_Gotland_VA:VK454
0.04402821HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ5
0.04414371CZE_Unetice_C:KO1010.A0101
0.04415894RUS_Ladoga_VA:VK16
0.04425476HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Danube-Tisza:A181017
0.04434763CZE_IA_La_Tene:I15950
0.04467676HUN_Conqueror_elite:SP2
0.04468721HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ24
0.04469445NOR_North_VA:VK514
0.04479918HUN_MBA_Fuzesabony:I20750
0.04483699HUN_early_Arpadian_commoner:VPB600
0.04505840HUN_IA_La_Tene_o3:I25509
0.04518057EST_Saaremaa_EVA:VK492
0.04531980CZE_IA_La_Tene:I15044
0.04533214HUN_Conqueror_commoner:pLE23
0.04534342Bell_Beaker_CZE_late:I5666
0.04534367HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Transtisza:A181028
0.04541869HUN_late_Avar:TMH798
0.04548495CZE_LBA_Knoviz:I16538
0.04558168CZE_Unetice_C:KO1014.A0101
0.04559201RUS_Ladoga_VA:VK409
0.04560501RUS_Gnezdovo_VA:VK223
0.04567282HUN_Conqueror_elite:AGY75
0.04574451HUN_Conqueror_commoner:SZA29
0.04580998HUN_early_Arpadian_commoner:IBE116
0.04586172CZE_EBA_Unetice:I15825
0.04594200Corded_Ware_CHE:MX195
0.04613207Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I3600
0.04614672SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt036
0.04616912HUN_Conqueror_commoner:HMSZ50
0.04622191HUN_Conqueror_commoner:SH12
Click to expand...


We really see the different ancestries in those groups. Those from Viminacium are particularly interesting. Probably complex mixes, but still more Northern Thracian/Dacian oriented.

The Himeran samples seem to be similar int his respect, but could be very well from the Central Balkans indeed. However, considering their comrades, a more Eastern origin is more likely if assuming they all came from the North Pontic sphere rather. I don't think that North Thracians/Dacian groups must have been fundamentally different at that time. They could, since we don't know for sure, but I see no reason why they had to be.
 
torzio said:
North Dalmatian word for father is Tata same as what the Frisians say
Click to expand...

in Frisian, father is heit -tata is a affective form as dad(dy) in English: it occurred other languages as Brittonis tad, tas, tad, Romanian tata - from an onomatopoeia? It was not atta in Hittite -

Concerning the Vegliot dialect, it seems at first sight an Italic dialect, but not Latin. I can only base myself on numbers figures which show the -kt > -pt shift (see Romanian) and the w- > gw- shift (Western Romances and P- Celts) - Or someone could places them in the Eastern Latin group?
Here we need specialists opinion.
 
MOESAN said:
in Frisian, father is heit -tata is a affective form as dad(dy) in English: it occurred other languages as Brittonis tad, tas, tad, Romanian tata - from an onomatopoeia? It was not atta in Hittite -

Concerning the Vegliot dialect, it seems at first sight an Italic dialect, but not Latin. I can only base myself on numbers figures which show the -kt > -pt shift (see Romanian) and the w- > gw- shift (Western Romances and P- Celts) - Or someone could places them in the Eastern Latin group?
Here we need specialists opinion.
Click to expand...

thanks.....

vegliot is a ancient liburnian island

spoken on the island of Veglia

now called Krk
Veglia

(dated) Krk, a Croatian island in the Adriatic Sea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krk
 
Riverman said:
We really see the different ancestries in those groups. Those from Viminacium are particularly interesting. Probably complex mixes, but still more Northern Thracian/Dacian oriented.

The Himeran samples seem to be similar int his respect, but could be very well from the Central Balkans indeed. However, considering their comrades, a more Eastern origin is more likely if assuming they all came from the North Pontic sphere rather. I don't think that North Thracians/Dacian groups must have been fundamentally different at that time. They could, since we don't know for sure, but I see no reason why they had to be.
Click to expand...

This is the Dacian from Glinoe

Distance to:Scythian_MDA:scy197
0.03235596HUN_middle_Avar:HH102
0.03305237HUN_early_Avar:MM131
0.03333273HUN_late_Avar:SZKT265
0.03355405GRC_Logkas_MBA:Log02
0.03448790MNE_LBA:I13167
0.03466258HRV_BA:I18748
0.03481747HUN_middle_Avar:SSD144
0.03510918ALB_MA:I13834
0.03568571SVK_IA_Vekerzug:I11721
0.03569426HUN_La_Tene:I18493
0.03586429ITA_Proto-Villanovan:RMPR1
0.03592852HUN_Conqueror_elite:K233
0.03658023ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR33
0.03676034HUN_IA_Syrmian_SremGroup:I18259
0.03683699HUN_EIA:I25507
0.03698110MKD_Anc:I10388
0.03699059HUN_LBA_EIA:I11683
0.03735294MNE_LBA:I13172
0.03747412SRB_Mokrin_EBA_Maros:I23205
0.03750194ALB_MA:I13839
0.03759260MKD_BA:I7231
0.03771639HUN_La_Tene:I18491
0.03783931MKD_Anc:I10390
0.03786359SRB_Mokrin_EBA_Maros_oAegean:MOK17A
0.03813682HRV_Pop_CA:pOP39
0.03818383HRV_Cetina_BA:I18747
0.03836598DEU_MA_Alemannic_o1:NIEcap3b
0.03841593HUN_BA:I7043
0.03842707HRV_Cetina_BA:I11843
0.03855679HUN_Conqueror_commoner:HMSZ86
0.03877949HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ43
0.03893838ITA_Collegno_MA:CL36
0.03903452HUN_middle_Avar:SZM259
0.03927046SRB_BA:I17912
0.03927986ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16251
0.03941921MNE_LBA:I13777
0.03954362DEU_MA_Alemannic_o2:NIEcap3c
0.03984785HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ36
0.03985903HRV_EIA:I23904
0.03990998MKD_Anc:I10384
0.04011964HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ28
0.04015169HUN_late_Avar:ARK38
0.04043489Scythian_MDA:scy300
0.04064891MKD_Anc:I10381
0.04071754ITA_Rome_MA:RMPR1287
0.04113097ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_2:I10950
0.04120576HUN_middle_Avar:SSD198
0.04121241SRB_BA:I17913
0.04129485HRV_BA:I5074
0.04140707MNE_LBA:I13169

These are the Himera samples

Distance to:ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_2:I10950
0.02582730HUN_La_Tene:I18493
0.02644317MNE_LBA:I13777
0.02800750HUN_IA_Syrmian_SremGroup:I18259
0.02816046SRB_BA_Maros:I23209
0.02877046SRB_BA:I17912
0.02897195HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ28
0.02904827HRV_Pop_CA:pOP39
0.03004671MNE_LBA:I13168
0.03053016SRB_BA:I16803
0.03093311HUN_late_Avar:SZKT265
0.03112798HRV_BA:I18748
0.03129665ITA_Etruscan:RMPR474b
0.03130431HRV_BA:I5080
0.03136522HRV_Cetina_BA:I11843
0.03148549HUN_IA_La_Tene:I18529
0.03157443Bell_Beaker_CZE_late:pRU001.A0101
0.03205084HUN_late_Avar:ARK38
0.03286578HUN_IA_La_Tene:I18528
0.03298742HUN_BA:I7043
0.03313887CZE_LBA_Knoviz_o3:I13794
0.03315753SVK_IA_Vekerzug:I11721
0.03331552HUN_IA_La_Tene:I18834
0.03339874HRV_LIA_La_Tene:I26735
0.03349799MNE_LBA:I13169
0.03355738HUN_La_Tene:I18491
0.03389818HRV_IA:I5723
0.03396227SRB_Mokrin_EBA_Maros_oAegean:MOK17A
0.03400388SRB_Mokrin_EBA_Maros:MOK13
0.03443533SVK_IA_Vekerzug:I14465
0.03457736HRV_EIA:I23995
0.03461900HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ43
0.03494391MKD_BA:I7231
0.03515462HRV_MBA:I4331
0.03519045HRV_EIA:I26742
0.03529349SRB_Mokrin_EBA_Maros:I23208
0.03529822HUN_IA_La_Tene:I25510
0.03534179HUN_early_Avar:MM131
0.03536962HUN_Sarmatian_Late_Transtisza:A181024
0.03538454SRB_Mokrin_EBA_Maros_oAegean:MOK31
0.03551347ITA_Rome_MA:RMPR55
0.03563775HUN_IA_La_Tene:I25522
0.03564827SRB_Mokrin_EBA_Maros:MOK27
0.03581601HUN_middle_Avar:SZM38
0.03597359MNE_LBA:I14498
0.03614792ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16253
0.03634671HRV_Cetina_BA:I18746
0.03648925SRB_Mokrin_EBA_Maros:MOK26A
0.03655479HRV_EIA:I23904
0.03681637MNE_LBA:I13775
0.03691214HRV_IA:I5724


Distance to:ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_2:I10946
0.02742545CZE_IA_La_Tene:I17139
0.03152487SRB_BA:I17912
0.03331283HUN_early_Avar:MM131
0.03356102MNE_LBA:I13172
0.03393812HUN_La_Tene:I18493
0.03445125HRV_MBA:I26726
0.03459529SRB_BA:I17913
0.03464924DEU_MA_ACD_Baiuvaric:NW_54
0.03467261ITA_Etruscan_Casenovole:CSN006
0.03467688SRB_Mokrin_EBA_Maros_oAegean:MOK31
0.03473453SVN_EIA:I22940
0.03505717HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ28
0.03516161HUN_early_Avar:MS43
0.03556158HUN_IA_La_Tene:I18834
0.03583980SRB_Mokrin_EBA_Maros:I23205
0.03586256MNE_LBA:I13778
0.03593545HRV_BA:I5074
0.03603379MNE_LBA:I13777
0.03606563HUN_early_Avar:MS45
0.03609815HUN_La_Tene:I18491
0.03615253HUN_LBA_EIA:I11683
0.03651398HRV_Cetina_BA:I18745
0.03663615MKD_Anc:I10385
0.03695543HRV_EIA:I24639
0.03714660HRV_BA:I18748
0.03715715ITA_Proto-Villanovan:RMPR1
0.03745260HRV_MBA:I4331
0.03755520CZE_LBA_Knoviz_o3:I13786
0.03769119HRV_IA:I3313
0.03771650HRV_Bezdanjaca_BA:I18725
0.03773390MNE_LBA:I13168
0.03775108MKD_Anc:I10390
0.03810922HRV_Bezdanjaca_BA:I18415
0.03837600ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_2:I10950
0.03850940HRV_Bezdanjaca_BA:I18737
0.03878635HRV_BA:I5080
0.03878871HRV_IA:I5724
0.03893598SRB_Mokrin_EBA_Maros_oAegean:MOK17A
0.03900694MKD_Anc:I10388
0.03904534ITA_Etruscan:RMPR474b
0.03905024HRV_IA:I5723
0.03905459HRV_MBA:I26774
0.03907385GRC_Logkas_MBA:Log02
0.03916860MNE_LBA:I13169
0.03932334HRV_Cetina_BA:I18746
0.03939193MKD_Anc:I10391
0.03948112HRV_BA:I18712
0.03968012Bell_Beaker_CZE_late:pRU001.A0101
0.03978386DEU_MA_Alemannic_o1:NIEcap3b
0.03993394HRV_EIA:I23996

Here are the component admixtures



Target: Scythian_MDA:scy197
Distance: 2.4509% / 0.02450861
30.6South_Thrace_local
23.4GRC_Mycenaean
14.6CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany
14.0Proto_Illyrian
11.2Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield
4.6TUR_Ottoman
1.0CZE_MBA_Tumulus
0.6CZE_Early_Slav


Target: ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_2:I10950
Distance: 1.9362% / 0.01936223
43.0Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield
33.0GRC_Mycenaean
20.0Proto_Illyrian
2.8South_Thrace_local
1.2Dai




Target: ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_2:I10946
Distance: 2.4119% / 0.02411918
50.4Proto_Illyrian
38.4Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield
11.2GRC_Mycenaean

What can i conclude about this is that the Himera mercenaries came from Central/Western Balkans not from North Pontic or Black Sea.
 
I haven't followed the thread very well due to the immense size, but what is the current consensus after Southern Arc came out?

Albanian is a Catacomb related language or something else?
 
eupator said:
I haven't followed the thread very well due to the immense size, but what is the current consensus after Southern Arc came out?

Albanian is a Catacomb related language or something else?
Click to expand...

The most recent arguments regarding Albanian come from Matzinger 2021 and Hyllested 2022.

Matzinger thinks Albanian is a Balkanic IE unlike Illyrian which is an Eastern Alpine/Western-Balkans language and belongs to different block. Matzinger believes that Albanian is not related to Thracian and its related idioms as well.

Matzinger believes Albanian has/could have a connection with Messapian instead who doesn't have connection with Illyrian.

Hyllested also put Albanian in the same group as Messapian although he admits it's still a controversial grouping, and he puts both languages under "Illyric" branch noting in quotes that it means more of a geographic rather than phylogenetic tree since he isn't sure whether all languages spoken in Western Balkans had the same source.

Ultimately, Hyllested believes Albanian shares the same origin as Greek within IE branch, probably both descending from Yamnaya (but not referring in specific Catacomb or what). It's a controversial branching but per him the best bet so far.

That's how i understood.
 
Hawk said:
This is the Dacian from Glinoe


Target: ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_2:I10950
Distance: 1.9362% / 0.01936223
43.0Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield
33.0GRC_Mycenaean
20.0Proto_Illyrian
2.8South_Thrace_local
1.2Dai




Target: ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_2:I10946
Distance: 2.4119% / 0.02411918
50.4Proto_Illyrian
38.4Pannonian_Carpathian_Urnfield
11.2GRC_Mycenaean

What can i conclude about this is that the Himera mercenaries came from Central/Western Balkans not from North Pontic or Black Sea.
Click to expand...


I10950 has zero Illyrian, add the following components:

MKD_Skopje_Anc:I10379,0.129758,0.149283,0.021873,-0.027132,0.027082,-0.012829,0.005875,0.001846,0.002659,0.034989,-0.001461,0.01169,-0.007284,-0.003716,-0.019137,0.008353,0.029206,-0.002154,0.005656,0.001876,-0.018093,0.002349,-0.002095,0.008435,-0.004311
UKR_Cimmerian_o:MJ12,0.135449,0.138112,0.015462,-0.012274,0.020927,-0.008088,0.00235,-0.007384,-0.006545,0.034625,0.000487,0.008542,-0.008325,-0.008533,-0.014522,0.005171,0.025946,-0.000127,0.011439,0.005878,-0.019091,0.007666,0.004067,0.011929,-0.000239
MKD_BA:I7231,0.133173,0.150298,0.010559,-0.02261,0.026774,-0.00753,0.003525,-0.000923,0.004704,0.030433,0.001949,0.002698,-0.012487,0.001789,-0.015744,0.000398,0.008475,0.003927,0.008547,-0.010255,-0.013851,0.007296,-0.003821,-0.002169,-0.000838
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I10950 seems to be Gava plus Bronze Age R1b-Z2103 genetics. There is not one true Illyrian profile in the Himera mass grave, but we have Uralic profiles. To me that indicates the mercenaries were recruited on the Black Sea ports. I10946 is the only one that shows west of Danube signals.

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Individual Slovak IA (probably Dacians in Celtic zones) show affinity to both Himera E-V13s, that and Cimmerian MJ-12 are indicators of Carpathian zone. I10946 seems to have lived in Hungary, while I10950 in Wallachia. The problem is cremation, we are getting reads by proxies and not direct populations, especially for I10946 (look at the poor fit).
 
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