Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

[Excine]

Derite explained to you earlier how all those toponyms connecting Albanian language with the area of Albania proper are without linguistic foundation or with the dubious one at best. The only certain ones are from Dardania.



Indeed, I fully agree. Other than in Shtip the Proto-Albanians also lived in Nish. And for anything else there is no firm evidence.



Maybe he is but the fact that he is not close to any Albanians raises strong doubts. If he was just an Albanian, he would have clustered with some Albanian subclusters. Instead, he split the clade..



I am not most "obsessed" with it. Poreklo admin is also big on it.:bigsmile: I think he speaks some Albanian too. Rrenjet admin came there, and started talking about Albanian-Illyrian name parallels, and instantly he appeared with the linguistic rebuttal of most of those. Justifiably, Christian names are not Illyrian. And he is an archeologist, he brought these late Bessi archeological finds into the internet spotlight.

I agree with you proto-Albanians came from Dardanian areas. There is also some Illyrian related evidence pointing to Illyrians from Dardania.. But the Matzinger, along with other linguists has given the final verdict. Albanian language is not Illyrian. It is derived of some population which lived under the Illyrian dynasty.
And as clearly demonstrated, Bessi in Late Antiquity lived also in Dardania.. And they are the only late Paleo-balkan group with proved archeological existence.

Not the Latino-Avar Komani Kruja culture..



There is also one Greek from Athens who tested as Z19851* at the FTDNA. Maybe some of these are related to him. Greek has Y111.

And?? aDNA trumps any modern day distribution. There was no meaningful V13 South of Danube river prior to LBA. Deal with it.. You and Bruzmi are promoting 15 year old debunked crackpot theory about the origin of V13..

Have you realized that north of the Danube in all of Hungary (including all recent studies, published and unpublished) there is 1 BA E-V13 in 160 samples? When we get 200 samples from Bosnia, Albania and Kosovo from the LBA and just 1 E-V13 is found among them, we can return to discussing anything else beyond the Balkans. Insisting that E-V13 came from north of the Balkans in the EIA doesn't work any longer as a plausible theory. Start dealing with it.

 

[torzio]

Someone ban Huban's stupid sock. This is getting out of hand.

who is Huban ?

 

[Oroku Saki]

Have you realized that north of the Danube in all of Hungary (including all recent studies, published and unpublished) there is 1 BA E-V13 in 160 samples? When we get 200 samples from Bosnia, Albania and Kosovo from the LBA and just 1 E-V13 is found among them, we can return to discussing anything else beyond the Balkans. Insisting that E-V13 came from north of the Balkans in the EIA doesn't work any longer as a plausible theory. Start dealing with it.

There are two, not one, one is EBA, the other LBA.

And they are from heavily undertested Eastern/NE Hungarian areas. West Hungary and MBA Hungary is overtested. With some single cultures having up to 30 samples. Mostly I2a in the case of one. This is not representative.
V13 would be likely the strongest or among the strongest Y-DNA lines in NW Romanian/NE Hungarian BA.

Bosnia is irrelevant. Already you have a bunch of Croatian EIA and MBA which belong to the same material culture dominant in BA/IA Bosnia. No V13. BA, EIA Bosnia will be mostly J2b2. You have Daunians who came from Albania in LBA, and no V13.

You might find in Bosnia some IA V13 descended of Basarabi or Hungarian Scythians.. And likely more R1b-L51.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

We are witnessing the genetic confirmation of the inevitable Bessian origin of the proto-Albanians, much to the horror of some Albanian J2b2 carriers.. All your lies and effort for nothing..

Recently a BigY of a North Macedonian was done, and he is positive for all SNP's at the E-Y140828 level, except for the Y146090.

So Y140828 is now divided into:
-North Macedonian from Shtip
-Albanians

Shtip being one of few early toponyms of Albanian origin means this Macedonian is a proto-Albanian who stayed home, whereas most others migrated to the West. Their TMRCA is just around 1000 ybp.

Additionally, Bulgarian BigY profiled E-BY147386, a new clade under Z5018 with a German. Here belongs the Albanian Nivica cluster.

Very close to this Bulgarian is 849049 on the Albanian project, I guess this is some Westerner without origin idea, as he is so close to the Bulgarian. Multiple other Bulgarians belong to E-BY147386, but importantly, there is a subcluster under E-BY147386 defined by dys391=11, Nivica cluster has this value, Bulgarian with BigY doesnt, all other Bulgarians do. So this would imply that Nivica migrated to Albania around 1000+ years ago..

The early reference to Albanians by the Byzantines refers to us as living in Italian region of the empire. Until recently that did not make sense. It does make sense though in the context of the Komani Culture, which was inhabited by Latin speaking Illyrians until they were replaced around 900 AD by Albanian speakers. The Albanians of 1000 AD had only recently settled what the Byzantine regarded as "Italian" region of the empire. A lot of pieces of the puzzle are coming in together quite nicely.

Unfortunately, the people who had once been our allies and who possessed the same rights as citizens and the same religion, i.e. the Albanians and the Latins, who live in the Italian regions of our Empire beyond Western Rome, quite suddenly became enemies when Michael Dokenianos insanely directed his command against their leaders...

 

[enter_tain]

We are witnessing the genetic confirmation of the inevitable Bessian origin of the proto-Albanians, much to the horror of some Albanian J2b2 carriers.. All your lies and effort for nothing..

Recently a BigY of a North Macedonian was done, and he is positive for all SNP's at the E-Y140828 level, except for the Y146090.

So Y140828 is now divided into:
-North Macedonian from Shtip
-Albanians

Shtip being one of few early toponyms of Albanian origin means this Macedonian is a proto-Albanian who stayed home, whereas most others migrated to the West. Their TMRCA is just around 1000 ybp.

Additionally, Bulgarian BigY profiled E-BY147386, a new clade under Z5018 with a German. Here belongs the Albanian Nivica cluster.

Very close to this Bulgarian is 849049 on the Albanian project, I guess this is some Westerner without origin idea, as he is so close to the Bulgarian. Multiple other Bulgarians belong to E-BY147386, but importantly, there is a subcluster under E-BY147386 defined by dys391=11, Nivica cluster has this value, Bulgarian with BigY doesnt, all other Bulgarians do. So this would imply that Nivica migrated to Albania around 1000+ years ago..

You are witnessing your own stupidity. The Albanian language was split into Geg/Tosk before the Slavic migrations, while the Bessi lived in Bulgaria deep into the Slavic migrations. Not to mention the Bessi were very Hellenized, and the Albanian language is not so.

The Albanians are the descendants of the Albanoi in northern Albania. There's not much more to it. It also explains why the northern Geg dialect is more conservative and closer to Proto-Albanian, while the Tosk dialect is more divergent.

 

[torzio]

You are witnessing your own stupidity. The Albanian language was split into Geg/Tosk before the Slavic migrations, while the Bessi lived in Bulgaria deep into the Slavic migrations. Not to mention the Bessi were very Hellenized, and the Albanian language is not so.

The Albanians are the descendants of the Albanoi in northern Albania. There's not much more to it. It also explains why the northern Geg dialect is more conservative and closer to Proto-Albanian, while the Tosk dialect is more divergent.

your confusing

Albania states
Shqipëria (gegërisht Shqipnia, gjithashtu Shqypnia; historikisht Arbri ose Arbëria, ndërkombëtarisht Albania), zyrtarisht Republika e Shqipërisë,

as the proper name .................the term Albanoi was first used 150AD for a tribe in modern north albania near kosovo .............no one knows if this tribe is anything except a mix of Roman Latin and local people forming a tribe ..............

 

[enter_tain]

your confusing
Albania states
Shqipëria (gegërisht Shqipnia, gjithashtu Shqypnia; historikisht Arbri ose Arbëria, ndërkombëtarisht Albania), zyrtarisht Republika e Shqipërisë,
as the proper name .................the term Albanoi was first used 150AD for a tribe in modern north albania near kosovo .............no one knows if this tribe is anything except a mix of Roman Latin and local people forming a tribe ..............

"Shqiperia" is a term that only became popular in the last few hundred years. Depending on the dialect, the historical variants were Arberia, Arbenia, Arbania, etc... "Albania" is a Latin name that applied to a few places (Albion in Britain, Arbenia in the Balkans, and Aghwank in the Caucaus). Albanus was a region next to Rome and Julius Caesar's family.

The Albanoi were a tribe in northern Albania, at the time part of Roman Macedonia, which at the time is where Illyrians lived. "Illyrian" was still used as ethnonym back then. No modern historian/linguist that studies Albania in detail denies the Albanoi -> Albania link. Even Matzinger says that's where they come from, but makes excuses as to why Albanians are not the original Albanoi but a tribe that migrated there and adopted the name. There are 0 records of this, and he himself squirms around that fact by denying it's an "solution without a problem".

All this Dacian/Thracian/Bessian crap is nonsense from the 20th century and has long been debunked. It's the equivalent of the Caucaus Theory for PIE.

The 2 contending schools of thought are the mainstream Illyrian -> Albanian, and the lesser advocated for Illyrian/Messapian/Albanian grouping.

 

[mount123]

The early reference to Albanians by the Byzantines refers to us as living in Italian region of the empire. Until recently that did not make sense. It does make sense though in the context of the Komani Culture, which was inhabited by Latin speaking Illyrians until they were replaced around 900 AD by Albanian speakers. The Albanians of 1000 AD had only recently settled what the Byzantine regarded as "Italian" region of the empire. A lot of pieces of the puzzle are coming in together quite nicely.

Next to latin speaking Illyrians there were most probably also non latin speaking Illyrian remnant populations whom the Proto-Albanians and Proto-Vlachs met on their way to the Western Balkans. Interesting connection you are making there, I would assume, though, that the Proto-Albanian migration into Illyrian regions might have happened also in earlier and different waves and is most likely tied to a domino effect caused by the Slavic migrations too. The latter obviously replacing the entirety of the Illyrian natives. Neither would I assume that the Proto-Albanians were too "nice" in partially replacing Illyrians as well. Just looking at the Illyrian uniparentals and auDNA components kind of hiding up in isolated regions of inner Northern Albania, Malesia e Madhe or Kosovo gives a direct hint.

 

[enter_tain]

Next to latin speaking Illyrians there were most probably also non latin speaking Illyrian remnant populations whom the Proto-Albanians and Proto-Vlachs met on their way to the Western Balkans. Interesting connection you are making there, I would assume, though, that the Proto-Albanian migration into Illyrian regions might have happened also in earlier and different waves and is most likely tied to a domino effect caused by the Slavic migrations too. The latter obviously replacing the entirety of the Illyrian natives. Neither would I assume that the Proto-Albanians were too "nice" in partially replacing Illyrians as well. Just looking at the Illyrian uniparentals and auDNA components kind of hiding up in isolated regions of inner Northern Albania, Malesia e Madhe or Kosovo gives a direct hint.

Oh please shut up. There was no "replacement" of Illyrians. Look at the etymology of Illyrian tribes in Albania/Montenegro. Taulanti -> Dallandyshe (Greeks literally translated this). Dimallum -> Dy male. Ulqin -> Ulk. Encheledi (which was also written with the voiced "g" like Alb/unlike Greek) -> Ngjale. You have 2 places named after sheep. Delminium in Croatia, and Delvine in southern Albania.

Even Brindisi in Italy that was settled by Messapians was related to the word "bri" based on its etymology.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Next to latin speaking Illyrians there were most probably also non latin speaking Illyrian remnant populations whom the Proto-Albanians and Proto-Vlachs met on their way to the Western Balkans. Interesting connection you are making there, I would assume, though, that the Proto-Albanian migration into Illyrian regions might have happened also in earlier and different waves and is most likely tied to a domino effect caused by the Slavic migrations too. The latter obviously replacing the entirety of the Illyrian natives. Neither would I assume that the Proto-Albanians were too "nice" in partially replacing Illyrians as well. Just looking at the Illyrian uniparentals and auDNA components kind of hiding up in isolated regions of inner Northern Albania, Malesia e Madhe or Kosovo gives a direct hint.

Replacements are never nice, struggle for living space is always violent. However, how much J2b is present in Yugoslav lands? Not much, in fact there is more EV13 than J2b in Slavic portions of Illyria, that's how thoroughly they were hunted down by the Serbs. I will argue that almost all J2B in Bosnia, Serbia, Croatia comes as a late expansion from Dalmatia post 1000 AD, when Venice began trading with Serbian states. Latin speaking Illyrians moved back as merchants pursuing new markets. This reveals something about the Serbia psyche, total exterminators.
Albanian expansion has been less vicious and organized. In the south there are pockets of Slavic DNA, in the north pockets of Illyrian.

The Komani Culture is simply the southern extension of the Latin speaking Dalmatians. Ironically both groups began losing ground the same time to different inland groups that encroached them.

 

[enter_tain]

It's hilarious seeing all these weird Kosovar posters who are desperate to remain relevant and deny the fact that Albanians come from the Albanoi in Albania, something that no major contemporary mainstream historian/linguists deny.

You're descendants of some Berishas and Thacis that moved there a few hundred years ago. We have actual records of that. No records of your fake migrations INTO Albania. Albania was part of the biggest Empire in the world. All migrations were recorded by Byzantines. But keep writing your fake migrations Lord of the Rings Dardanian/Trojan b.s.

 

[Illyria]

Replacements are never nice, struggle for living space is always violent. However, how much J2b is present in Yugoslav lands? Not much, in fact there is more EV13 than J2b in Slavic portions of Illyria, that's how thoroughly they were hunted down by the Serbs.

This reveals something about the Serbia psyche, total exterminators.

E-V13 has early origins around the Carpathian mountains, these Proto-Thracians had contacts with the Balto-Slavs north-east of them

J2b2 has early origins around the Alps of Central Europe, these Proto-Illyrians had contacts with Italo-Celts north-west of them

The most likely reason of why E-V13 outnumbers J2b2 in South Slavs, is because some E-V13 lines came to the West Balkans with the Slavic migrations, as a minor lineage among I2a-Din and R1a, from contacts with Thracians. Thracians were at one point, the second most populous people next to Indians, it's not surprising that some E-V13 became absorbed into the Proto-Slavs

It's extremely important to keep in mind that Serbs assimilated a very significant amount of Albanians, which can be seen by the haplogroup projects of Montenegro and Sandzak, the tribal histories of some of the oldest Montenegrin tribes, and the numerous Slavicized Albanian surenames that many Montenegrins, Serbs, and Bosnians still carry today. Many Albanians were assimilated under the Serbian Orthodox Church. An overwhelming amount of the E-V13 and R1b in South Slavs, belong to Albanian lines.

Also, there was a time where northern Albanian and Montenegrin tribes were allied in the medieval, mixed marriages among royal families were common to keep peace between them. Also, the West Balkans saw a huge decrease in population from the Roman-Illyrian wars followed by the Plague of Justinian, before the Slavic migrations. You are over exaggerating the amount of replacement that occurred by South Slavs. The wars and the plague had more significant impact to the decline of J2b2, than the migrations that followed after. By the time the Slavs migrated into the Balkans, the northern Balkans were extremely depopulated.

If Serbs or Slavs were as ruthless towards Albanians / Illyrians as you say, they wouldn't have assimilated them or married them, and the Montenegrins, Southern Bosnians and Southern Serbs, wouldn't have so many subclades of Albanian origin.

There were more Paleo-Balkan people assimilated into South Slavic nations, by %, than there were Slavic people assimilated into Albanians. South Slavs have higher Balkan E-V13 & R1b-Balkan, by %, than the Albanians have I2a-Din and R1a. So much for these "Serb exterminators", marrying Albanians, assimilating them, even bringing some Thracian E-V13 with them long ago. Are we forgetting they came to the Balkans with the help of Avars and Huns too? Why didn't the Serbs exterminate these people? In a struggle for living space, and autonomy, to avoid violence, sometimes you have to befriend people you don't want to, for mutual gain, and protection.

 

[mount123]

Replacements are never nice, struggle for living space is always violent. However, how much J2b is present in Yugoslav lands? Not much, in fact there is more EV13 than J2b in Slavic portions of Illyria, that's how thoroughly they were hunted down by the Serbs. I will argue that almost all J2B in Bosnia, Serbia, Croatia comes as a late expansion from Dalmatia post 1000 AD, when Venice began trading with Serbian states. Latin speaking Illyrians moved back as merchants pursuing new markets. This reveals something about the Serbia psyche, total exterminators.
Albanian expansion has been less vicious and organized. In the south there are pockets of Slavic DNA, in the north pockets of Illyrian.

The Komani Culture is simply the southern extension of the Latin speaking Dalmatians. Ironically both groups began losing ground the same time to different inland groups that encroached them.

Funny that you mention possible "back" migrations, I actually also have roots in Kotorr on the maternal side of my paternal grandfathers side which have been brutally expelled by the Serbs who got that land thanks to the West and the Ottomans. The architecture of the buildings there is so similar to how our ancestors from where I come from used to build our houses and many still do. I totally agree with you on the extension hypotheses too. Also, notice how a more North Western origin is also part of the Hoti origin folklore who are J2b-L283.

 

[Hawk]

So far we have a general pattern that the fringes of Western Balkans was packed with J2b2-L283 historically associated either with Illyrians or similar people to them and the fringes of Eastern Balkans with E-V13.

R1b-Z2103 the original Yamnaya lineage was found in small percentages but all over Balkans afaik, and it looks like it was a major lineage during Early Bronze Age.

Further down in Albanian Illyria we don't know what the picture looked like. How the accurate picture of ancient Balkans look like, we don't know precisely.

For a time it was believed Illyrians were bearers of Eastern Urnfielders but this theory was dismissed by Yugoslav, Albanian and recently aknowledged by Austrian archaeologists as having small influence from them. On the other hand Eastern Urnfielders left a legacy in Central, Eastern and Southern Balkans in Early Iron Age Greece.

 

[enter_tain]

There is 0 evidence EV-13 was the majority anywhere in the Balkans. The only place it reaches 50% in modern times is in Kosovo, and 3/4 of Kosovar lineages are just recent major expansions. They are not representative of ancient population Y-DNA % ratios.

EV-13 is uniform in ALL Balkan populations, including Greeks. Given that Southern Illyrians and Northern Greeks intermixed, there is no reason to suspect southern Illyrians were 100% J2b. That is nonsense.

 

[Hawk]

There is 0 evidence EV-13 was the majority anywhere in the Balkans. The only place it reaches 50% in modern times is in Kosovo, and 3/4 of Kosovar lineages are just recent major expansions. They are not representative of ancient population Y-DNA % ratios.

EV-13 is uniform in ALL Balkan populations, including Greeks. Given that Southern Illyrians and Northern Greeks intermixed, there is no reason to suspect southern Illyrians were 100% J2b. That is nonsense.

Yeah, yeah. Your self-serving bias.

[h=1]Cosmopolitanism at the Roman Danubian Frontier, Slavic Migrations, and the Genomic Formation of Modern Balkan Peoples[/h]

A local origin is supported by a high frequency of Y-chromosome lineage E-V13, which has been hypothesized to have experienced a Bronze-to-Iron Age expansion in the Balkans and is found in its highest frequencies in the present-day Balkans

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.30.458211v1.full

 

[mount123]

So far we have a general pattern that the fringes of Western Balkans was packed with J2b2-L283 historically associated either with Illyrians or similar people to them and the fringes of Eastern Balkans with E-V13.

Further down in Albanian Illyria we don't know what the picture looked like. How the accurate picture of ancient Balkans look like, we don't know precisely.

Some of the IA Illyrian samples are from central Dalmatia and there are also MBA Dalmatian Posusje samples from south Dalmatia which as a region I would not call the "fringes" of the Western Balkans.

 

[mount123]

Yeah, yeah. Your self-serving bias.

He is a troll don't waste your time with him

 

[PaleoRevenge]

E-V13 has early origins around the Carpathian mountains, these Proto-Thracians had contacts with the Balto-Slavs north-east of them

J2b2 has early origins around the Alps of Central Europe, these Proto-Illyrians had contacts with Italo-Celts north-west of them

The most likely reason of why E-V13 outnumbers J2b2 in South Slavs, is because some E-V13 lines came to the West Balkans with the Slavic migrations, as a minor lineage among I2a-Din and R1a, from contacts with Thracians. Thracians were at one point, the second most populous people next to Indians, it's not surprising that some E-V13 became absorbed into the Proto-Slavs

It's extremely important to keep in mind that Serbs assimilated a very significant amount of Albanians, which can be seen by the haplogroup projects of Montenegro and Sandzak, the tribal histories of some of the oldest Montenegrin tribes, and the numerous Slavicized Albanian surenames that many Montenegrins, Serbs, and Bosnians still carry today. Many Albanians were assimilated under the Serbian Orthodox Church. An overwhelming amount of the E-V13 and R1b in South Slavs, belong to Albanian lines.

Also, there was a time where northern Albanian and Montenegrin tribes were allied in the medieval, mixed marriages among royal families were common to keep peace between them. Also, the West Balkans saw a huge decrease in population from the Roman-Illyrian wars followed by the Plague of Justinian, before the Slavic migrations. You are over exaggerating the amount of replacement that occurred by South Slavs. The wars and the plague had more significant impact to the decline of J2b2, than the migrations that followed after. By the time the Slavs migrated into the Balkans, the northern Balkans were extremely depopulated.

If Serbs or Slavs were as ruthless towards Albanians / Illyrians as you say, they wouldn't have assimilated them or married them, and the Montenegrins, Southern Bosnians and Southern Serbs, wouldn't have so many subclades of Albanian origin.

There were more Paleo-Balkan people assimilated into South Slavic nations, by %, than there were Slavic people assimilated into Albanians. South Slavs have higher Balkan E-V13 & R1b-Balkan, by %, than the Albanians have I2a-Din and R1a. So much for these "Serb exterminators", marrying Albanians, assimilating them, even bringing some Thracian E-V13 with them long ago. Are we forgetting they came to the Balkans with the help of Avars and Huns too? Why didn't the Serbs exterminate these people? In a struggle for living space, and autonomy, to avoid violence, sometimes you have to befriend people you don't want to, for mutual gain, and protection.

Everything you mentioned I am well aware off. There's a lot you don't know. Serbs are quite different from other Balkan Slavs. Their tribe is almost exclusively I2a-Dinaric south originally, these are the original Serbs. EV-13 and R1B is mostly Vlach origin among Serbs, and is more common in eastern Serbia which was not Serbian but settled by the Moravian and Timok Slavs, who were of different Y-DNA (Dinaric North and R1a), like the Macedonian Slavs( Brsite and Dragovites), these Slavs were more mellow, they merged with the paleo-Balkan population more harmoniously. This can be seen in the current Y-Dna of these people. When Serbs expanded east they simply incorporated these mixed Slavs into their kingdom and eventually their nation. This merger is not a sign how generous Serbs are, Serbs simply got cucked.

These eastern lands were originally packed with Vlach, and very likely Albanians before we migrated to Albania. Serbs had a violent war with the early Bulgarian khans, the Bulgars boasted to have almost wiped out the Serbs. The empty space of land west of Morava in the 9th and 10th century opened the way for the Vlach expansion towards Bosnia. Eventually the Serbs recovered and the Vlachs became subjects of the Serbs. The Vlach occupied the mountains, took care of animal husbandry and that was their niche. Albanians began doing the same from the south, and Albanian clans were establishing themselves as shepherds for medieval Serbs in Montenegro and Herzegovina. When the Serbian kingdom(s) crashed because of Ottoman expansion, Slavs began to flee into the mountain valleys, and the niche the Vlach occupied once, was no longer theirs, they had to share their habitat with the Slavs. Because of this confusion(disruption of the old societies), the Vlach began to merge with the Serbs, a new community was made, this mixture was facilitated by the sharing of common religion. Ironically this is why Krajina Serbs and much of Bosnian Serbs are genetically less Serbian than the Bosnians and Croats.

There is no doubt all Shtovakian speakers are related to I2a-Dinaric south clade. Before the Ottoman empire expanded into Croatia, the medieval frontier of Croatia in Dalmatia was the linguistic frontier of Shtovakian speakers and Chakavian speakers (original Croats). After the Ottomans devastated Dalmatia with the help of frontier Serbs, the repopulated land is now genetically almost devoid of the old Croatian Slavic Y-DNA, just like it is absent of J2b. The Serbs were just as aggressive toward the other Slavs as they were toward the Illyrians. The Serbs that were converted to Catholic religion are ironically much closer to medieval Serbs genetically than the Vlach infused modern Serbs. This is ironic, that such a aggressive macho tribe gets cucked from within. EV-13 and R1b are incubating from within and taking over. There is an additional aspect to this competition. I2A tend to have female children, especially in non-violent times, and EV-13 tends to have male children(it's a short male with a chip on their shoulder thing). Even if Albanians were to disappear, the Serb nation would Albanize itself from within.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Some of the IA Illyrian samples are from central Dalmatia and there are also MBA Dalmatian Posusje samples from south Dalmatia which as a region I would not call the "fringes" of the Western Balkans.

The crazy thing about the Illyrian diehards, they have been reduced to making an argument that pretty much comes down to this; "yes Albanians are not related to 95% of Illyrians, but they could be related to the remaining 5% that has not been tested." LMAO