Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

[blevins13]

A lot of nonsense but I'll keep it simple, Labs have no tradition from Labeate, this is modern day word games, the clownery that comes out Albania. Laberia comes from Arberia, it is well known and understood. It is also known that Labs have impulses from Ghegs, some Ghegs migrated during the Ottoman takeover, possibly as refugees. There are traditions that certain villages or families in certain neighborhoods have origins from northern Albania. I am not shocked genetics reveal this link. This stuff as been talked about for two decades now, I remember reading about it 20 years ago.

There is no final conclusion where Lab name comes from, but it might have ben there even before Slavic migration, example. Lab - Labovo or maybe as you say from Arberia, that was not supported by Cabej. Like everything with word is an open game of speculation very difficult to prove almost anything.


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[enter_tain]

All this guy is saying is just Hammond 1982, p. 261: "'Illyris', a geographical term which the Greeks applied to a territory neighbouring of their own, covers more or less the area of northern and central Albania down to the mouth of the Aous."

And from this area we don’t have ancient samples yet.


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This guy will find a 10,000 BC sample from the Balkans and call it "Illyrians".

Not sampling Albania and talking about "Illyrians", is like not sampling Rome when talking about "Romans".

 

[Hawk]

We shouldn't go on the opposite end. Outside Albanians if you check E-V13 percentages in Montenegro, Serbia etc. , you will see multiple founder effects from northern Albanian tribes. If these tribes who moved to the north were J-L283, then you would see Montenegro or Herzegovina and Serbia above 10%> J-L283. It's really random. There's nothing "more" Albanian about E-V13 vs J-L283 Malësors. They're the same indigenous people of the highlands and like most Albanians they have the highest number of shared ancestors between them compared to other European populations. Debates on eupedia would seem so bizarre to all of them.

E-V13 had broader expansion during Bronze to Iron Age hence why you see more common in various countries.

The Eastern Urnfielders were a big deal, they came with a complete package.

 

[enter_tain]

I don't care who he is, I don't engage these people as I see them for what they are, way below me. I have been a member here a long time and never touched this subject until I saw some very reasonable people having a honest debate. That was a moment for me to talk with my people and throw my two cents. As a whole I don't respect the bulk of these apes, they are embarrassing and backward.

Imagine living in Germany and saying I have met a lot of Germans. Then one of these clowns shows up, Caesar called the Germans some tribe near Belgium, haha, you don't know any real Germans. LOL
You know, the Romans who fought and conquered Illyrians didn't even know they were not fighting any real Illyrians, is that possible? Some slob 2,000 years later knows better, and he will say, "most scholars blah blah". Who even talks like that? Most scholars said this, most scholars said that, as if he knows most scholars personally. Hold on, I got some scholars in my pocket, lets hear what they got to say. This makes me chuckle, I can tell you with no shame, Albania is the least scholarly country in Europe, with least respect for scholarly work. But here in the internet, they are the high priest of scholars.
That's not how any honest person would debate. That's the language of a five year old, the teacher's pet, always invoking authority, trying to frame themselves as ambassadors of authority.

Yeah you're above history, linguistics, archeology. These "haplobros" are really a new kind of stupid.

 

[enter_tain]

By the way, I made a thread a few months ago, predicting ancient Greek/Albanian autosomal DNA. I said they would be identical to Myceneans. Guess what? The Greeks 100% were.

No one cares what a science refuser like you wants to fabricate. You nationalists can keep dreaming about your "Mycenean like" Southern Illyrians as much as you want but that is far from reality.

Just a matter of time before these clownish statements get brought to light.

The modern Albos/Greeks circled in pink are literally just partly Slavicized Myceneans.

 

[enter_tain]

Vast amounts of Upper Macedonians (western parts) and Epirotes were literally just Hellenized Illyrians. These were almost the same population genetically. Even today those two regions are identical genetically. Macedonian legends literally state their founders went there through Illyria.

Can't wait for mount to find his 100% J2B2 "Spanish-like" alien populations deep in the Southern Balkans :lol:

 

[Hawk]

Don't bother with him.

Interesting, can you elaborate what exactly Hammond's stand point is and how the Taulanti come into this?

So, technically according to Albanian archaeologists Illyrians were composed from 4 different material culture, but two being more important, and the 1 being quintessential most important the Glasinac-Mat Culture and secondarily the Trebeniste Culture whom Enchelei, Dassareti and likely Taulanti hailed.

Epirus: the geography, the ancient remains, the history and topography of ...by Nicholas Geoffrey Lemprière Hammond, 1967, page 467, "The Encheleae then cannot be the Sesarethii. The Peresyades, we conclude, were chiefs of a Taulantian tribe from Sesarethus and were also called Sesarethii. I should then punctuate the text as follows..."

A History of Macedonia: 550-336 B.C by Nicholas Geoffrey Lemprière Hammond,Guy Thompson Griffith, 1978, page 93, "The Peresadyes, then, were the rulers of Trebenishte, and Hecataeus wrote of them when they were at the height of their power. It is likely, as we have, seen, that they came from the north; they may have been Dardanii, forerunners of the fourth-century dynasty of Bardylis, and they had contact with the Thracians,..."

How will it reflect in aDNA, something curious about as well.

 

[enter_tain]

The Tunisian samples are also J-L283

Ah, yes. In before, the haplobros start talking of the Illyrian Tunisians.

 

[Hawk]

Ah, yes. In before, the haplobros start talking of the Illyrian Tunisians.

Could be Nuragics Punicized, the city of Kerkouane had relationship with their South Sardinian colony where Temple of Antas is found and was previously one of the main sites of Nuragic Civilization.

 

[mount123]

A lot of nonsense but I'll keep it simple, Labs have no tradition from Labeate, this is modern day word games, the clownery that comes out Albania. Laberia comes from Arberia, it is well known and understood. It is also known that Labs have impulses from Ghegs, some Ghegs migrated during the Ottoman takeover, possibly as refugees. There are traditions that certain villages or families in certain neighborhoods have origins from northern Albania. I am not shocked genetics reveal this link. This stuff as been talked about for two decades now, I remember reading about it 20 years ago.

There is indeed evidence of Catholic Northern Albanians from Mirdita and other regions to have settled there. Most of J2b-L283 among Tosks is under 631 and other subclades, other groups like North East Greeks and Aromanians who have very low insignificant percentages of J2b-L283 might also have "increased" it and most of the time not changed the overall insignificance of J2b-L283 in Tosks. The near total absence of J2b-L283 in Arvanites and Tosks is a perfect "modern" example of why J2b-L283 cannot be linked to the ancestors of Proto-Albanians in any way.

 

[mount123]

Could be Nuragics Punicized, the city of Kerkouane had relationship with their South Sardinian colony where Temple of Antas is found and was previously one of the main sites of Nuragic Civilization.

Yes. That is my thought too. This was also from a "cosmopolitan" site. The samples seem to cluster more towards Nuragics too.

Edit: The source seems to be Sicily. Quite dope if you ask me.

 

[torzio]

Could be Nuragics Punicized, the city of Kerkouane had relationship with their South Sardinian colony where Temple of Antas is found and was previously one of the main sites of Nuragic Civilization.

maybe

or as we know, it could be .........Liburnians traded with carthagians in the first 50 years of Carthage existence.............maybe Carthage , early on was a trading hub for many different traders

 

[Hawk]

maybe
or as we know, it could be .........Liburnians traded with carthagians in the first 50 years of Carthage existence.............maybe Carthage , early on was a trading hub for many different traders

That's a possibility as well, as much as via Sicily, because the Sikels whom the name Sicily was taken were Illyrian migrants as well, or Nuragic Civilization.

The Carthaginians were the ancient world's traders, they were known for that, they were not warriors, they ran away from Levant from their distant Semitic cousins Assyrians when they were causing atrocities in the Middle East during their peak.

Most of the Carthaginian army when clashing with Rome was composed of mercenaries(they were super-rich), like Celts and Iberians but their most important mercenaries were Numidian Berbers, especially the Numidian light cavalry.

 

[mount123]

That's a possibility as well, as much as via Sicily, because the Sikels whom the name Sicily was taken were Illyrian migrants as well, or Nuragic Civilization.

One of these guys is positive for PH106 which was found in the older IA Iapodians. The other clade is present in Sardinian Nurgagics and Etruscans I think. There are also two J2b-L283 samples from Venosa (possible Samnite area? no expert on this) with geographic proximity to the Daunian and Messapian area.

 

[enter_tain]

Founder effect. If you believe such nonsense, than why are you even here?

This comment really made my day. Imagine being this disattached from reality.

"You believe in one of the central tenets of genetics? Why are you in a genetics forum then?" :lol:

 

[Polska]

Since both of these ancient L283 Tunisians are under Z38240 (as well as 1 under PH1602), these samples must ultimately trace back to the western Balkans somewhere.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z38240/

There is one modern Sardinian under Z38240 and no modern or ancient Sardinians under Z38241 or PH1602. Z38240 in Italy is found predominantly in northern or north central Italy (CTS6190) as well as in southeastern Italy around Bari and territories settled by Messapic speakers. If these samples have ties to Sicily, then maybe Messapian peoples could be the ultimate source?

https://phylogeographer.com/scripts/heatmap.php

 

[Illyria]

There is indeed evidence of Catholic Northern Albanians from Mirdita and other regions to have settled there. Most of J2b-L283 among Tosks is under 631, other groups like North East Greeks and Aromanians might also have "increased" it. The near total absence of J2b-L283 in Arvanites and Tosks is a perfect "modern" example of why J2b-L283 cannot be linked to the ancestors of Proto-Albanians in any way.

The Proto-Albanian language originated in the mountains, away from the coasts, somewhere along the Jiricek line. J2b2 just so happens to be most frequent, on the nearby mountains straddling this line. Coincidence? I think not. Just because the haplogroups E-V13 and R1b are more widespread, doesn't mean it isn't linked with the ancestors of Proto-Albanians.



If you don't feel Albanian as a J2b2 descendant, then that's your problem. The rest of us J2b2 Albanians do, because we know we are!

 

[torzio]

One of these guys is positive for PH106 which was found in the older IA Iapodians. The other clade is present in Sardinian Nurgagics and Etruscans I think. There are also two J2b-L283 samples from Venosa (possible Samnite area? no expert on this) with geographic proximity to the Daunian and Messapian area.

maybe as this site states

https://www.albanopedia.com/ancient-states-regions/iapodes

 

[PaleoRevenge]

There is no final conclusion where Lab name comes from, but it might have ben there even before Slavic migration, example. Lab - Labovo or maybe as you say from Arberia, that was not supported by Cabej. Like everything with word is an open game of speculation very difficult to prove almost anything.


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Might have been, could have been, kush e di. Nothing is anything, if I don't like it. I wonder why nothing functions over there in Albania. Maybe NASA needs to get involved in the big mystery of Laberia, there may be a link to Alexander the Great and the Egyptian pyramids.

Curious how you lumped Labova with Laberia. There is no link. Labovo(Liampovo in Greek maps) is some corruption of the Slavic place names. Look at old maps of Epirus, such a village existed even on the Greek side (not on the Cham zone).

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Yeah you're above history, linguistics, archeology. These "haplobros" are really a new kind of stupid.

You are not history, you are not linguistics or archeology. You are just a IQ deficient prole.

In the usual sloppy self, you even argued that J2b in north Albania is over inflated by some "lottery" event. So clumsy and sloppy that you ended up making the point Albanians are really even less Illyrian (J2b), while the aim was to prove we are "da real Illyrians n shieet". I wipe my @ss with your type with no effort. Kuptove pleraxhi?