Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

[broder]

Right, the G2a fella from a later period is Paeonian, which may be the case, while the CTS1450+ from at least 300 years earlier can't be. Neither can a fella that predates him for at lest 600 years from the same region because he too is CTS7556+

Because you say so, gotcha

I am not dreaming here or projecting myths, but I am talking about real samples from archeological complexes that fall within their territory.

 

[broder]

It's definitely not in Ambraica read the paper again and I would not call post-classical Greece Iron Age. As for linking the Himara's to Illyrians, it shows how delusional you are, and unable to understand IBD analysis, there is zero connection to Illyrians, literally none. LMAO

Kek

Who said he was Illyrian? I said there is a sample from there that's potentially CTS9320. Yes, when they reported him, they reported him as from Arta and M78. I haven't seen recent updates yet nor the raw data. Once we get the raw data we will figure out. Interesting to note that there is a PF7563 and a L283 fella there too.

I specifically pointed out the Himera fellas and their connection to the Thracian samples when I brought him up, to show you that they could have been around there that early too..

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Kek

Who said he was Illyrian? I said there is a sample from there that's potentially CTS9320. Yes, when they reported him, they reported him as from Arta and M78. I haven't seen recent updates yet nor the raw data. Once we get the raw data we will figure out. Interesting to note that there is a PF7563 and a L283 fella there too.

I specifically pointed out the Himera fellas and their connection to the Thracian samples when I brought him up, to show you that they could have been around there that early too..

The preprint has PCA graphs, there is nothing unusual in any of the samples, they all cluster like previous ancient Greek samples. I think they did IBD runs as well, but if they didn't include other samples from the Balkans, it's lessens the value of test.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Right, the G2a fella from a later period is Paeonian, which may be the case, while the CTS1450+ from at least 300 years earlier can't be. Neither can a fella that predates him for at lest 600 years from the same region because he too is CTS7556+

Because you say so, gotcha

I am not dreaming here or projecting myths, but I am talking about real samples from archeological complexes that fall within their territory.

The R1b fella has high WHG component, shares segments with Illyrians and is from a time frame traditional archeology associate with a massive Illyrian invasion. There were no Illyrians in eastern Macedonia 400 BC. But there were in 700 BC. Some good archeological work that's not enver hoxha slop:

P

Genetic study Post in thread 'South Albania Tumulus DNA samples'

Jul 30, 2023

A screenshot of the abstract:

A key event described in the transcript:

1) In 750 BCE, there is a population decline
2) In 750 BCE, a new grave construction occurs
3) In 750 BCE, R-Z2106 becomes the dominant haplogroup.
4) Implication is R-PF7563 was the dominant haplogroup in the prior period and likely sole haplgroup before bronze age collape

These events are in absolute agreement with the events described in old school archeology, around 800 BCE, Illyrians invade Macedonia and lakeland region, Glasinac material appears in graves (graves...

• PaleoRevenge

• 

So historical events reconstructed through archeology are matching DNA tests. What a shock, this has been unraveling since 2010.
G2a is from a period the Illyrians were expelled and Paeonian recovered their territories.

 

[broder]

I see the paper now, the CTS9320 fella is from Tenea of Hellenistic period. While the M78 fella from Arta they reported bunch of negative nodes for him but none cancel out L618 or V13 - so he still can potentially be V13+

Same sort of thing for PF7562, he could still be PF7563. We will see when the raw data is available

 

[broder]

The R1b fella has high WHG component, shares segments with Illyrians and is from a time frame traditional archeology associate with a massive Illyrian invasion. There were no Illyrians in eastern Macedonia 400 BC. But there were in 700 BC. Some good archeological work that's not enver hoxha slop:

P

Genetic study Post in thread 'South Albania Tumulus DNA samples'

Jul 30, 2023

A screenshot of the abstract:

A key event described in the transcript:

1) In 750 BCE, there is a population decline
2) In 750 BCE, a new grave construction occurs
3) In 750 BCE, R-Z2106 becomes the dominant haplogroup.
4) Implication is R-PF7563 was the dominant haplogroup in the prior period and likely sole haplgroup before bronze age collape

These events are in absolute agreement with the events described in old school archeology, around 800 BCE, Illyrians invade Macedonia and lakeland region, Glasinac material appears in graves (graves...

• PaleoRevenge

• 

So historical events reconstructed through archeology are matching DNA tests. What a shock, this has been unraveling since 2010.
G2a is from a period the Illyrians were expelled and Paeonian recovered their territories.

Right, we got it. CTS7556 and CTS1450 Illyrians were just visiting there from 1300 BCE to about 500 BCE then G2a Paeonians woke up and expelled them.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Right, we got it. CTS7556 and CTS1450 Illyrians were just visiting there from 1300 BCE to about 500 BCE then G2a Paeonians woke up and expelled them.

R-CTS1450 is not solely Illyrian, the only branch that is proven Illyrian is R-BY250, the Bronze Age sample is not Illyrian, it's obvious on the PCA and IBDs. Your branch might show up in Brnjica samples(which have been sequenced btw) or Iron Age Macedonia, which the Reich lab has clearly sequenced as hinted in this abstract:

Situated at the interface of the Aegean and the Adriatic in southeastern Albania, the Kamenicë Tumulus functioned predominantly as an inhumation burial site from 1700 to 500 BCE. This stands in contrast to the prevailing cremation rituals observed in Central Europe during the same period, which have typically impeded insights into archaeogenetic progressions. In this work, we generated genome-wide SNP data for 230 individuals buried in Kamenicë over its complete historical span, alongside 19 Iron Age individuals from North Macedonia and 2 Late Bronze Age individuals from southwestern Bulgaria. Our comprehensive dataset provides the unique and first possibility for insights into, on the one hand, genetic continuities and changes of Late Bronze Age and Iron Age Albania; on the other hand, the function and meaning of tumuli in prehistoric Europe. Different societal transformations identified in the wider region are associated with a genetically stable and genealogically continuous population at our site. Our results indicate that the Kamenicë population maintained a distinct genetic profile while participating in a regional kinship network extending over 300 kilometers, as demonstrated through identified biological relatedness up to the 10th degree. Moreover, for the first time, we found evidence linking a partial turnover of male lineages around 750 BCE in a patrilineal society to a substantial shift in the structure and material symbols of the cemetery.

That's hilarious they wrote that last sentence, and removed their old conclusion. Imagine writing that when some of the authors involved are Albanian archeologists who behave like man-children(you, katunari, lili/brumzi) stumping their foot about their precious continuity since.....forever. Can't imagine how much back and forth bickering it took just to get that concession, to write that line of acknowledgement to note a substantial shift in archeological culture and Y-haplogroup turnover. muhh continuity, muhh illyrians. muhh enver hoxha

 

[broder]

Population shifts can occur without external invasions or language shifts. In a more micro scale look at northern Malesi, the tribal lands there. One clan totally replacing the others, how is that event that different? We see PF7563 and CTS1450 in Cinamak together as well too. In fact even the early almost pure yamnaya fella from there, who is only listed as M269, could potentially be PF7562+ too (he is L23-).

Anywho, you keep talking about imaginary people, fact of the matter is based on the data we got we most certainly know that the triangle I mentioned Maros/Adriatic/North Macedonia without a doubt was settled by the same yamnaya group - and this may extend even to Greece considering we have the same package among Myceneans as well (Z2103/PF7562/L283). Overtime through absorption, bottlencks etc of course they diverged to the groups we hear about during the Classical era. But of course, who can forget the Brygians and the mystical Hutsuls from Moldova lmao

BY250 was confirmed in Kamenine but you also have the "Illyrian" of Volandovo who is CTS1450* and Cinamak who could possibly also be CTS1450* (even BY611 but no coverage there)

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Magical population shifts, it could be ice cream from the sky too. Unfortunately for you R-PF7563 seem to have their own IBD network from R-BY250.

In fact even the early almost pure yamnaya fella from there, who is only listed as M269, could potentially be PF7562+ too (he is L23-).

Early Bronze Age Cinamak should be the same culture as Kosovo which was part of Bubanj-Hum, something no one associates with Illyrians, Illyrians are Cetina and Bela-Crvka. So yeah R-PF7563 had it's own space from the very beginning and Illyrian expanded at their expanse for 2,000 years.

Anywho, you keep talking about imaginary people, fact of the matter is based on the data we got we most certainly know that the triangle I mentioned Maros/Adriatic/North Macedonia without a doubt was settled by the same yamnaya group

That would mean Celt and Italics are the same, absurd to say but how do we have an adult conversation with enver hoxha pupils. What you and others like you have repeated is that Greeks and Illyrians were direct neighbors. No western archeologists supports this, and just as important no language evidence of such intense contact exists. The only group that meets criteria are the Brygians, that's why Phrygian and Greek are so similar, they were direct neighbors for almost over a thousand years. But in 3rd world academia, phrygian-greek affiliation is a myth, and Brygians were invented by Milosevic to defame the Illyrian empire from rebuilding Atlantis. Get a grip.

 

[broder]

Honest question, have you tested?


I am asking because you don’t seem to be that knowledgeable and seem to be taking these autosomal analysis very seriously while disregarding their Y-DNA altogether. Do you know that within 300 year period you can totally disconnect autosomally with your paternal cousins, I mean not even share a single segment?

I can show you a clear examples of paternal relatives, same last name, 300ybp tmcra but are not related autosomally.

All I am hearing from you is these Z2103/CTS7556/CTS1450 expanding from Marosh, North Macedonia, Cinamak to Kamenice within a 2000 year period were unrelated people.

 

[Southpaw]

This new paper is interesting: https://www.academia.edu/144547608/...S_A_LINGUISTIC_AND_ARCHAEOLOGICAL_PERSPECTIVE

Curta and Paliga argue that the Albanian language was not born in the Komani culture area of northern Albania. By the time the Komani cemeteries appear (7th–9th centuries), Proto-Albanian had already taken shape much further north and east, in the late-Roman interior (today’s Kosovo, Eastern Serbia, Northern North Macedonia) or even more north. That is the same region where people spoke the Eastern form of Vulgar Latin that later gave rise to Romanian. One great argument is that the Vlach groups currently neighbors to Albanian show remarkably low shared words that Albanian-Romanian has. That is a compelling argument.

Because of this shared neighbourhood, Albanian and Romanian ended up with hundreds of identical Latin loanwords and the exact same sound changes, a deep linguistic connection that can only be explained if both languages developed side-by-side in the same eastern Balkan zone. When Slavic invasions hit, groups carrying the already formed Proto-Albanian language moved south-west, reached the Komani area, mixed with the remaining Romanised locals, and their eastern dialect gradually became the dominant one.

In short: Komani is where Albanian arrived and took root in what is now Albania, not where it originated. The language came from the same eastern, Latin-speaking interior that produced Romanian, not from the ancient Adriatic coast. They clearly favor migrants over native genesis.

 

[Fshatar]

Interesting new pseudoscientific trash by pseudoscientists

 

[Southpaw]

Interesting new pseudoscientific trash by pseudoscientists

mount123, much better than your Tefallyrian pseudoscience, Albanian for hundreds of times has Eastern Vulgar Latin influence not Western Vulgar Latin spoken in Albania. So the source of origin must be sought more East, Dardania/Morava Valley/Nish/North Macedonia.

 

[Fshatar]

Typical boomer paranoia. Yes, everyone is the same person, the voices are telling you this. The only connection btw Albanian and Romanian are the Albanian loanwords Proto-Vlachs got from their southern Illyrian aka Arbër neighbors. Curta is a known laughing stock from claiming Slavic migration never happened to Romanian being autochthonous in modern day Romania. Vlachs moved into what is Romania from the south, they did not form there.

The article is just as mythical as that Hutsul Sazan Guri Pelasgologist thread or Garasanin's trash you take as your main sources.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

All I am hearing from you is these Z2103/CTS7556/CTS1450 expanding from Marosh, North Macedonia, Cinamak to Kamenice within a 2000 year period were unrelated people.

All I am hearing is that all Balkan yamanya is illyrian. And everyone has been doing this wrong, Greek is really Albanian, Paeonians and Brygians are also Albanian. messapi are illyro sakati japonezi from brilliant minds of malsorries, jumbo mumbo. Word acedmia has been chasing ghosts, or conspring against Illyrian empire. Evidence does not matter, at the end of day we are all chimps-----> the default go to argument. What else did I leave out?

 

[Southpaw]

That's you 100%. I can spot your low IQ patterns when i see them, behaviorally.

Everyone is a trash, Matzinger, all the scholars for pointing a more Central Balkan probable origin. There is no way Romanians lived that south, they lived just on north of where Proto-Albanians lived. That is so simple.

 

[Southpaw]

All I am hearing is that all Balkan yamanya is illyrian. And everyone has been doing this wrong, Greek is really Albanian, Paeonians and Brygians are also Albanian. messapi are illyro sakati japonezi from brilliant minds of malsorries, jumbo mumbo. Word acedmia has been chasing ghosts, or conspring against Illyrian empire. Evidence does not matter, at the end of day we are all chimps-----> the default go to argument. What else did I leave out?

E-V13 in Iron Age Assyria was found, we might as well declare E-V13 as Proto-Semitic lineage and ignore the complex migrations that brought it there.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

The article is just as mythical as that Hutsul Sazan Guri Pelasgologist thread or Garasanin's trash you take as your main sources.

You and your ilk could only wish to find any cognates like those in the Hutsuls, you would lick a sewer for even a tiny micro fraction of cognates to appear in Slavic Dalmatian dialects of Dalmatian Latin.
Have you found any knew cogantes is Messapian tablets by making random animal sounds? Hvae you tried making samurai sounds? You know north of the Messapii lived Japodes.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

E-V13 in Iron Age Assyria was found, we might as well declare E-V13 as Proto-Semitic lineage and ignore the complex migrations that brought it there.

The problem is not that Paeonians and Brygians are related to Illyrians, as they were initially from same ethnic and language group. The issue is that Illyrians shifted heavily from interior Balkan groups, J2bs are found all over Italy. It shifted their genetics and language, that's why half of their toponyms end in um. As such the languages differed by 800 BC. We can talk about other waves that were not Yamanya moving into the Balkans in repetation inlfuencing the interior groups such as the Paeonians, but it's pointless. As far simpletons like broder are concerned, migrations and mixtures stop where it suits them, Yamanya came in and nothing changed, eternal continuity ensued.

 

[Fshatar]

You and your ilk could only wish to find any cognates like those in the Hutsuls, even a micro fraction of cognates in Slavic Dalmatian dialects of Dalmatian Latin. Have you found any knew cogantes is Messapian tablets by making random animal sounds?

I'll much rather go with proven linguistic relationship btw Messapic and Albanian and those R-Z2103 and J-L283 samples in Italy.

Now there's possible E-V13 also in southern Epirus and half of ancient V13 carrying Albania Bronze Age like ancestry...it's not looking good for the Hutsul Daco-Mysians.