Which countries are considered Eastern European?

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So, according to you 45 years of Cold War decide which countries are East or Ovest in a continent with thousands of years of history?
Roughly the divide goes through center of Europe so it helps to solidify this view. What baffles me is that Eastern Europeans take offence to this!
 
This:

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The reason being that Eastern Europe is defined in contrast to Western Europe, much in the same way that Asia is separate from Europe despite both Europe and Asia being clearly part of the same continent - Eurasia. It's basically Western European "exclusiveness" bias (everyone else is seen as somewhat more backwards, even barbarian). So, what ends up happening is that the countries that aren't seen as related to the West are just lumped together.

The only countries that I would say are borderline are Czechia, Hungary and Croatia. Czechia and Hungary could be seen as somewhat Central European rather than Eastern Europe, for the simple reason that they are perceived as more culturally sophisticated (basically, Prague and Budapest), and as a rule Eastern Europe is backwards. And Croatia is often seen as more Mediterranean due to their beach tourism.

And to clear things up, NOBODY sees Poland as part of Central Europe. Whenever anybody mentions Eastern Europe, they think Poland. This isn't necessarily so for Russia, because Russia is seen as more distantly European and, well, Russian. If I were to list the basic regions of Europe as envisioned by Western eyes, it would be as follows: "true" Western Europe (the UK, France, Germany etc.), the Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Iceland etc.), the Mediterranean countries (Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece), Eastern Europe (Poland, Romania, Lithuania etc.), and Russia.
So casual racism it is then. Got it.
 
Europe_religion_map_en.png

Protestant Riga and Tallinn, a Western outpost in the Baltic for nearly a millenium, with its Gothic roof gables and Hanseatic red brick facades, with its church staples, with its narrow cobblestone streets and fortresses, canals, and city walls built by the Teutonic Order.
Two nations that have always been on the frontline against invaders from the East, be it Mongolian hordes, Slavic tribes or totalitarian
tyrants with their delusions of grandeure. We have always bore the brunt of it all. There's a couple of million Russian bodies buried in our lands from all the wars we have fought against them throughout the centuries. If it wasn't for us and the sacrifices we made, the Iron Curtain would lie far further to the West.
Our economies were crippled by the Soviet experiment. My great grandfather waged guerrila warfare against the Russians for 14 years up until the early 1950s. My father was a part of the independence movement in the 1980s. We laid our lives, were deported, imprisoned, shot, maimed and killed in the fight against them. Yet somehow we are being reduced to this nondescript Eastern Euro label by a soft-bodied Anglo-Saxon ignoramus drowned in postmaterialist sludge all because of a few decades of Soviet military occupation.
I'd wager we're one of the last truly Western places left.
As for being backwards, look up some freedom indices, education rankings, economic growth rates. Go read a history book. Educate yourself.
 
Protestant Riga and Tallinn, a Western outpost in the Baltic for nearly a millenium, with its Gothic roof gables and Hanseatic red brick facades, with its church staples, with its narrow cobblestone streets and fortresses, canals, and city walls built by the Teutonic Order.
Two nations that have always been on the frontline against invaders from the East, be it Mongolian hordes, Slavic tribes or totalitarian
tyrants with their delusions of grandeure. We have always bore the brunt of it all. There's a couple of million Russian bodies buried in our lands from all the wars we have fought against them throughout the centuries. If it wasn't for us and the sacrifices we made, the Iron Curtain would lie far further to the West.
Our economies were crippled by the Soviet experiment. My great grandfather waged guerrila warfare against the Russians for 14 years up until the early 1950s. My father was a part of the independence movement in the 1980s. We laid our lives, were deported, imprisoned, shot, maimed and killed in the fight against them. Yet somehow we are being reduced to this nondescript Eastern Euro label by a soft-bodied Anglo-Saxon ignoramus drowned in postmaterialist sludge all because of a few decades of Soviet military occupation.
I'd wager we're one of the last truly Western places left.
Nicely soaked through with nationalistic hatred towards others. I knew you must be the pinnacle of humankind, nevermind the Western delight.
 
Nicely soaked through with nationalistic hatred towards others. I knew you must be the pinnacle of humankind, nevermind the Western delight.
Being a part of the West includes a set of values that one subscribes to.

It has got nothing to do with hatred of others.

You don't have to hate others in believing that freedom of speech, freedom of thought, economic freedom, political freedom, justice and a moral compass makes a society better overall. Not willing to be associated with parts of the world, which do not share anything of the like with you, is not an act of hatred.

There's nothing wrong with being proud of who you are and what you stand for.
 
If you are in Europe and East of the dividing line that splits Europe in half, you're in Eastern Europe.
 
Being a part of the West includes a set of values that one subscribes to.

It has got nothing to do with hatred of others.

You don't have to hate others in believing that freedom of speech, freedom of thought, economic freedom, political freedom, justice and a moral compass makes a society better overall. Not willing to be associated with parts of the world, which do not share anything of the like with you, is not an act of hatred.

There's nothing wrong with being proud of who you are and what you stand for.

"The West" is hardly a scientific category. You'll just have to come to terms with the fact that mostly everyone considers Latvia to be an Eastern European country. Some humility might help against your quite comical anti-Russian bigotry.
 
Europe_religion_map_en.png

Protestant Riga and Tallinn, a Western outpost in the Baltic for nearly a millenium, with its Gothic roof gables and Hanseatic red brick facades, with its church staples, with its narrow cobblestone streets and fortresses, canals, and city walls built by the Teutonic Order.
Two nations that have always been on the frontline against invaders from the East, be it Mongolian hordes, Slavic tribes or totalitarian
tyrants with their delusions of grandeure. We have always bore the brunt of it all. There's a couple of million Russian bodies buried in our lands from all the wars we have fought against them throughout the centuries. If it wasn't for us and the sacrifices we made, the Iron Curtain would lie far further to the West.
Our economies were crippled by the Soviet experiment. My great grandfather waged guerrila warfare against the Russians for 14 years up until the early 1950s. My father was a part of the independence movement in the 1980s. We laid our lives, were deported, imprisoned, shot, maimed and killed in the fight against them. Yet somehow we are being reduced to this nondescript Eastern Euro label by a soft-bodied Anglo-Saxon ignoramus drowned in postmaterialist sludge all because of a few decades of Soviet military occupation.
I'd wager we're one of the last truly Western places left.
As for being backwards, look up some freedom indices, education rankings, economic growth rates. Go read a history book. Educate yourself.

I didn't know that Baltic Republics defended Europe for thousands of years.
A friendly advice, forget these imaginary millions of Russians bodies buried in your land and be careful from the real Russians because they are winning elections in your countries.
 
Roughly the divide goes through center of Europe so it helps to solidify this view. What baffles me is that Eastern Europeans take offence to this!

There is also a "great" "intellectual" discussion which state can be considered part of the Balkan Peninsula and who is not.
We are watching overturn some basic principles we learned at school when we were children.
 
If you are in Europe and East of the dividing line that splits Europe in half, you're in Eastern Europe.
The geographical center of Europe is found a lot further East than you probably imagine. But otherwise it's an obvious point, which makes perfect sense.
 
I didn't know that Baltic Republics defended Europe for thousands of years.
A friendly advice, forget these imaginary millions of Russians bodies buried in your land and be careful from the real Russians because they are winning elections in your countries.
Deary me, I guess you're not being taught history in Albania.
The part about million bodies wasn't hyperbole. If you're willing to challenge that point further, I'll give you a fair chance and let you do some research of your own first before schooling you.
Also:
a) you should probably educate yourself on how proportional election systems work — having the most votes doesn't mean you won,
b) granting people voting rights is the right thing to do.
As for being careful, we don't have any reason to be careful. I am prepared, though, if you're wondering. I'm keeping my assault rifle and sidegun at home, just like a good deal of my friends are. If need be, we're going to add another million bodies to our lovely soil. It makes it more fertile.
 
"The West" is hardly a scientific category. You'll just have to come to terms with the fact that mostly everyone considers Latvia to be an Eastern European country. Some humility might help against your quite comical anti-Russian bigotry.
The Americans thought the Natives were Indians. It doesn't constitute an argument.

And, yes, 'the West' is a term in social sciences.

In fact, any term - whether academic or not - has a definition. If you're using language as a means of communication, you'll have to stick to that principle.

So, once again, please provide a definition that suits your understanding of the term 'Eastern Europe' and explain why it applies to Latvia.

Otherwise you're just throwing words around senselessly.
 
The Americans thought the Natives were Indians. It doesn't constitute an argument.

And, yes, 'the West' is a term in social sciences.

In fact, any term - whether academic or not - has a definition. If you're using language as a means of communication, you'll have to stick to that principle.

So, once again, please provide a definition that suits your understanding of the term 'Eastern Europe' and explain why it applies to Latvia.

Otherwise you're just throwing words around senselessly.

It is obvious that you are a mentally ill man seeing as you have vivid fantasies about shooting people with your assault rifle, so I'm not going to have a discussion with you. Whatever your grievances, you might want to reflect upon the fact that your country and your people owe their very existence to the great sacrifices of the people whose bodies you want to fertilize your soil with.
 
Being a part of the West includes a set of values that one subscribes to.

It has got nothing to do with hatred of others.

You don't have to hate others in believing that freedom of speech, freedom of thought, economic freedom, political freedom, justice and a moral compass makes a society better overall. .
Oh, now you are dividing West and East in different way than first time, when you plastered religious denomination map. You see the freedoms and justice that you listed have nothing to do with religious dogma, and more about going away from it.
What's wrong with dividing Europe just geographically for West and East, or North and South?
 
It is obvious that you are a mentally ill man seeing as you have vivid fantasies about shooting people with your assault rifle, so I'm not going to have a discussion with you. Whatever your grievances, you might want to reflect upon the fact that your country and your people owe their very existence to the great sacrifices of the people whose bodies you want to fertilize your soil with.
I'm not having fantasies about it, I just wouldn't mind doing it if my land was invaded, since I have the skills and the inclination and a contractual obligation with the Latvian military.

Resorting to ad hominem arguments was your only way out of this, so you opted for that cowardly route.

How do my people own existence to Russia? That sounds like a joke. Only Russians, some East Slavs and Serbs would think of something like that.
 
I'm not having fantasies about it, I just wouldn't mind doing it if my land was invaded, since I have the skills and the inclination and a contractual obligation with the Latvian military.

Resorting to ad hominem arguments was your only way out of this, so you opted for that cowardly route.

How do my people own existence to Russia? That sounds like a joke. Only Russians, some East Slavs and Serbs would think of something like that.

They saved you from extermination at the hands of the Nazis. Generalplan Ost documents aimed for an 80% population reduction in the Baltic provinces - worse even than in Russia. That was if Himmler didn't get his who literally said that he hoped all Baltic people could be made to 'disappear'.

The reasons for this are quite relevant to this thread: it is because the Nazis thought that Baltic people looked Eastern European (and hence were racially undesirable) and had an Eastern European culture. Now, I think neither of these things are bad, but you seem to have some gripes with this.
 
Oh, now you are dividing West and East in different way than first time, when you plastered religious denomination map. You see the freedoms and justice that you listed have nothing to do with religious dogma, and more about going away from it.
What's wrong with dividing Europe just geographically for West and East, or North and South?
Excuse me, the Reformation was all about being against mindless religious dogma, about being against an unfair, corrupt way of doing things. It's one of the great paradigm shifts of modern history. It's got nothing to do with religion. I'm not religious. It's just one of the main layers that define 'Northern Europe'.

There's nothing wrong with dividing Europe geographically. The problem with is that people's geography knowledge isn't any better than their understanding of history. Latvia and Estonia lie North of Denmark and West of Finland. If they're Eastern European, neither Denmark, nor Finland are Northern European.

The eastern edge of Europe is located thousands of kilometres East in the Urals. Most North Americans are not aware of it. The centre of Europe is to the Southeast of the centre of Latvia, if you're using the gravitational method and not including far away islands off the continent.
 
They saved you from extermination at the hands of the Nazis. Generalplan Ost documents aimed for an 80% population reduction in the Baltic provinces - worse even than in Russia. That was if Himmler didn't get his who literally said that he hoped all Baltic people could be made to 'disappear'.

The reasons for this are quite relevant to this thread: it is because the Nazis thought that Baltic people looked Eastern European (and hence were racially undesirable) and had an Eastern European culture. Now, I think neither of these things are bad, but you seem to have some gripes with this.
I actually have done research on Nazi racial policies in the Baltics. As in, I've read through the archives. Most of what you wrote here is outright incorrect. Actually, upon further inspection, every single statement you made is factually incorrect.

Latvians and Estonians were deemed suitable for Germanization. Only Latgalians and Lithuanians were to be deported (and even then not exterminated) and either sent further East or used as guards and overseers of Slavic forced labour camps in Siberia on an industrial scale. Latgalians, just like the Belarusians, were deemed culturally backwards, based on their century-long connection to the Russian Empire under the Vitebsk Governorate. 'They were so backwards, they should not be considered a threat' is very close to a quotation of one Nazi official.

Note that I'm talking about Nazi policy after the invasion of the Soviet Union and after the Baltics were occupied. That was the first time they carried actual 'research' measuring skulls and the like. Their policies were updated accordingly based on what they saw on the ground.
 
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