Who are the Dardanians of Europe and Troy? ( VIDEO )

[blevins13]

Paris real name was Alexander......is there any relation between Macedonians and Trojans???


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

 

[Johane Derite]

The Ancient Macedonians are mentioned as having come from Illyria by ancient authors:

 

[phoenix]

Paris real name was Alexander......is there any relation between Macedonians and Trojans???


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

Hittites did mention certain king of Wilusa named Alaksandu(Alexander), and did mention the patreon God of Wilusa was Appaliuna (Apollo).

 

[phoenix]

Also, it might be that the Dardanians were a Western Anatolian migrants in the Balkans, mixing with both the Illyrians and Thracians. There is a certain non Illyrian non Thracian element among the Dardanians.

 

[Yetos]

@ Derite

Before Albanians in today Albania

were Brygians nieghbours of Makedonians and Proto-Greeks
were Illyrians coming from Noricum today Austria. Celto-Germanic
came Greeks through colonization look at Apollonia Dyrrachion
came Colchnians to Ulchini
came Romans
came Dacians to Germidava

All of them today exist in Albania
But as Simo Simeonis marks about demographics of Dyrrachium
and as Linguists say,
Albanian language came last,
After all the above
and assimilate them with Albanization

so even if there was a possible connection of Makedonians with some Illyrians
surely those Illyrians did NOT spoke Albanian,

 

[Sile]

@ Derite

Before Albanians in today Albania

were Brygians nieghbours of Makedonians and Proto-Greeks
were Illyrians coming from Noricum today Austria. Celto-Germanic
came Greeks through colonization look at Apollonia Dyrrachion
came Colchnians to Ulchini
came Romans
came Dacians to Germidava

All of them today exist in Albania
But as Simo Simeonis marks about demographics of Dyrrachium
and as Linguists say,
Albanian language came last,
After all the above
and assimilate them with Albanization

so even if there was a possible connection of Makedonians with some Illyrians
surely those Illyrians did NOT spoke Albanian,

Check the net for....Mycenean hillforts in Dalmatia early iron-age .............it would seem that dalmatians if there at that time was people from Cetina culture via Vucedol culture ...or....as some scholars stae , the Delmatae of bronzae-age south austria/slovenia migrated southduring the celtic incursion of the illyrian in the eastern alps...Halstatt culture times

also check
Liburnian Necropolis in Nadin ( north Dalmatian ) 45 skeletons to be looked at

 

[Archetype0ne]

@ Derite

Before Albanians in today Albania

were Brygians nieghbours of Makedonians and Proto-Greeks
were Illyrians coming from Noricum today Austria. Celto-Germanic
came Greeks through colonization look at Apollonia Dyrrachion
came Colchnians to Ulchini
came Romans
came Dacians to Germidava

All of them today exist in Albania
But as Simo Simeonis marks about demographics of Dyrrachium
and as Linguists say,
Albanian language came last,
After all the above
and assimilate them with Albanization

so even if there was a possible connection of Makedonians with some Illyrians
surely those Illyrians did NOT spoke Albanian,

Your Grandfathers spoke Albanian you piece of manure, if you didn't come from Tartarus that is... Thyej qafen. Your language got assimilated with manure.So better keep Albanians out of your mouth, literally.

"tā- 'step; arrive'Pres3Sg ta-a-i: KBo XXIX 31 iv 6 (?).Pret3Sg ta-at-ta: 133 ii 27.da-a-ad-da: 88 ii 2.Pres2PlM da-a-ad-du-wa-ar: IX 31 ii 26 (+ -tar & -ta!).See Morpurgo-Davies, Gs Cowgill 218f"

(AL)T-ardh (EN) (Those who)'Came

taææara- '?'NPl taæ-æa-ra-an-zi: 145 ii 2*; 143,10*.APl taæ-æa-ra-an-za: 144,5; XVII 15 ii 8e.

(˚)taæušiya- 'keep silent/quiet' (?)Pret1Sg (˚)ta-æu-ši-ya-aæ-æa: I 4 + (KBo III 6) iii 18.21*.da-æu-ši-ya-aæ-æa: I 6 iii 9.11.˚da-æu-u-ši-ya-a-aæ-æa: XIX 67 ii 8e.12*.Also in Hittitized tuæušiya(i)-. Cf. Oettinger, Stammbildung

Qetësia - Quiet, Silent

tappa- 'spit (on)' (?)Pret3Sg tap-pa-a-at-ta: 43 ii 29.iii 36; XXVII 26,8*(?); XXXII 6,5.tap-pa-at-ta: 8 i 6*e(?); 29 i 13*; 45 iii 24; 59 ii 4*; 81,3*.10*;KBo XXIX 19,4.tap-pa-ad-da: 46 iv 11.[t]a-ap-pa-at-ta: 8 i 7*(?).Imv3Sg tap-pa-ad-du: 28 i 9*.Cf. perh. also [ ]x()tapātta at KBo XIX 155,9, but this wordmay be incomplete.

Eg of sentence:"(AL)T-pshty faren e fisin.

tātariyamman- 'curse'N-ASg da-a-ta-ri-ya-am-ma-an: 31 Vo 26; XXXII 9 Ro 13*.da-a-ta-ri-ya-ma-an: 21 Ro 16.Vo 7.30*.ta-ta-ri-am-ma-an: XXXII 8+5 iv 26.ta-ta-ri-ya-am-ma-an: 29 i 7*; 43 iii 28; 70 ii 5*; XXXII 4,4*;KBo XXIX 19,5*.ta-a-ta-ri-i-am-ma-an: 45 iii 24.ta-ta-ar-ri-ya-am-ma-an: 43 ii 30.iii 37*; 51 ii 16*; 58 ii 8*; 60 ii1*; XXXII 14 + XXXIV 62,9.ta-ta-ar-ri-ya-a-am-ma-an: 49 i 5*.N-APl ta-ta-ri-ya-am-ma: KBo IX 141 iv 15.ta-ta-ar-ri-ya-a-am-ma: 14 iv 2*; 15 iii(!) 2*.ta-a-ta-ri-ya-am-ma: 45 iii 9*.ta-ta-ar-ya-am-ma: 48 iii 11*.ta-ta-ar-ri-ya-am-na: 39 ii 13

Google translate rendition AL - EN: Tatar - Tartar;

Also, the root takes the ending -ia in Albanian when denoting geographic location hence Tataria -geographic location. Tatar -person. Eg. Shqiptaria (Land of the Eagles)

If however it takes ending -i. It still denotes a person, but it takes the form "the person" ie: (AL) Tatari - (EN) the Tartar.

"Translations of tartari

[TABLE="class: gt-baf-table, width: 634"]
[TR="class: gt-baf-entry"]
[TD]Tartarian[/TD]
[TD]tartari[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: gt-baf-entry gt-baf-entry-selected"]
[TD]Tartarean[/TD]
[TD]tartari[/TD]
[TD]"[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


All three versions apear consistenly in cuneiform Luwian.

CUNEIFORM LUVIANLEXICONH. CRAIG MELCHERT / LEXICA ANATOLICA VOLUME 2

Apollonia Dyrachium ta q* motren, p*dh kurve. Ulqini mamin. Kusar i karit.

You can ban me, you cant ban the lexicon, nor the meaning of the language according to Google.

Edit:If the Mods allow this conversation to go off topic for 2 pages straight due to some Greek saying Ulqin spoke greek, and some serb with German avatar speculating without providing any sources, of what value is this forum?

Edit:AFAIC - the only thing worth more than gold in life is truth... Markod mentioning Africa or "Insane Albanians Nationalists" , sending 4 implied messages at me after I decline to fall for your bait provest "inatin e Serbit", and how much salt and Pb my ancestors exported to yours. Markod beware the light mate, it might blind you one day unexpectedly. No matter how much you try, truth will be the last thing in the Universe after everything else decays. POS.

PS: All the studies I posted are by foreigners, expect 1 link with a valuable lexicon. And even in that case I stated the propaganda nature of the article beforehand. But you... scoundrel better post proof for your statements. POS.

 

[markod]

@ Derite

Before Albanians in today Albania

were Brygians nieghbours of Makedonians and Proto-Greeks
were Illyrians coming from Noricum today Austria. Celto-Germanic
came Greeks through colonization look at Apollonia Dyrrachion
came Colchnians to Ulchini
came Romans
came Dacians to Germidava

All of them today exist in Albania
But as Simo Simeonis marks about demographics of Dyrrachium
and as Linguists say,
Albanian language came last,
After all the above
and assimilate them with Albanization

so even if there was a possible connection of Makedonians with some Illyrians
surely those Illyrians did NOT spoke Albanian,

Don't get worked up :grin:

Macedonian was either Greek or para-Greek, it's very similar to Attic Greek and I'd say almost mutually intelligible (with significant difficulties however). Technically, even Mycenean was para-Greek because it is not ancestral to classical dialects. That's what happened everywhere, most dialects of the languages that survived became extinct at one point.

 

[Yetos]

Check the net for....Mycenean hillforts in Dalmatia early iron-age .............it would seem that dalmatians if there at that time was people from Cetina culture via Vucedol culture ...or....as some scholars stae , the Delmatae of bronzae-age south austria/slovenia migrated southduring the celtic incursion of the illyrian in the eastern alps...Halstatt culture times

also check
Liburnian Necropolis in Nadin ( north Dalmatian ) 45 skeletons to be looked at

That the Giannopoulos Theory,
I know the Cetina and Vucedol
but that still does fit in Gennetics,
most probably from Cetina came the pre or proto-Greko-Brygians,

the Giannopoulos is first expressed at 1928
and altough we have archaiological evidences
they lack the era of Megaron of Mycenae,
the the round buildings, as the the last ones in Sarakatsans villages
seems from Cetina,
Yet Triantafyllides and Lazarides find it hard to connect pure Mycenean core with Cetina,
most possible for me is that from Cetina came the pre or proto-Greko-Brygians
which enter Mycenean world.

Yet the Cetina theory is strong among archaiologists
and partially has a significant role
I believe that from Cetina and Vucedol came a part that enter Mycenean world specially the round tombs.
and major the Greko-Brygians

 

[Yetos]

Don't get worked up :grin:

Macedonian was either Greek or para-Greek, it's very similar to Attic Greek and I'd say almost mutually intelligible (with significant difficulties however). Technically, even Mycenean was para-Greek because it is not ancestral to classical dialects. That's what happened everywhere, most dialects of the languages that survived became extinct at one point.

Makedonian belong to NW Greek dialects
it kept the proto-sounds of Greek
Mycenean is one of the 2 components of Greek (possible the Achaians)
the other is NW Greek (among them Makedonian),
who some evolute to Aeolian Ionian Doric etc
and some remained as Makedonian,

I wrote about them here
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...)-to-Homer-and-Koine?highlight=Mycenean+koine

but even today except Makedonian and some Epirotan
it is hard to find NW Greek

Speaking Makedonian today
is like medieval or Shakespeare in modern London

the truth about original Makedonian Dialect or Language

Makedonian was a primitive Greek language affected by Brygians on labioverals (co-existance)
on the other hand we see a kind of terminus post quem with Aeolian (common origin)

if that makes it Greek, or para Greek,
if it makes it a dialect or a language
the truth is the above.

 

[markod]

Makedonian belong to NW Greek dialects
it kept the proto-sounds of Greek
Mycenean is one of the 2 components of Greek (possible the Achaians)
the other is NW Greek (among them Makedonian),
who some evolute to Aeolian Ionian Doric etc
and some remained as Makedonian,

I wrote about them here
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...)-to-Homer-and-Koine?highlight=Mycenean+koine

but even today except Makedonian and some Epirotan
it is hard to find NW Greek

But Macedonian isn't ancient Macedonian.

 

[Archetype0ne]

Also this is quite interesting and important:

Especially when we consider the account of Rose Wilder Lane's travel through Albania in 1920, in which she documented the oral history of Albanian highlanders,
and in which an illiterate old man named the entire Argaed Dyanasty off from oral history alone (and talked about the Black Sea flooding 80 years before scientists presented it as a
hypothesis).


The interesting thing here is that the old man referred to the third king in the Argaed Dynasty (Tyrimmas) as "Trimi", 70 years before linguist Stuart E. Mann noted the connection:

Here is the full thread about Rose Wilder Lane's journey below:






LINK: https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...Capital-in-Albania?highlight=rose+wilder+lane

Interesting, what do we really know about the flood? Could you post the screen for the particular page. Maybe there is a connection between the legend I read in Strabo about some catastrophe in the lower planes... And how Dardanus survived only in Skepsis before descending down Meander, into Scumander and building his kingdom in the Upper Western plane of the river. Later joining forces with the Troyans from below the plain.

 

[LABERIA]

Your Grandfathers spoke Albanian you piece of manure, if you didn't come from Tartarus that is... Thyej qafen. Your language got assimilated with manure.So better keep Albanians out of your mouth, literally.
"tā- 'step; arrive'Pres3Sg ta-a-i: KBo XXIX 31 iv 6 (?).Pret3Sg ta-at-ta: 133 ii 27.da-a-ad-da: 88 ii 2.Pres2PlM da-a-ad-du-wa-ar: IX 31 ii 26 (+ -tar & -ta!).See Morpurgo-Davies, Gs Cowgill 218f"
(AL)T-ardh (EN) (Those who)'Came
taææara- '?'NPl taæ-æa-ra-an-zi: 145 ii 2*; 143,10*.APl taæ-æa-ra-an-za: 144,5; XVII 15 ii 8e.
(˚)taæušiya- 'keep silent/quiet' (?)Pret1Sg (˚)ta-æu-ši-ya-aæ-æa: I 4 + (KBo III 6) iii 18.21*.da-æu-ši-ya-aæ-æa: I 6 iii 9.11.˚da-æu-u-ši-ya-a-aæ-æa: XIX 67 ii 8e.12*.Also in Hittitized tuæušiya(i)-. Cf. Oettinger, Stammbildung
Qetësia - Quiet, Silent
tappa- 'spit (on)' (?)Pret3Sg tap-pa-a-at-ta: 43 ii 29.iii 36; XXVII 26,8*(?); XXXII 6,5.tap-pa-at-ta: 8 i 6*e(?); 29 i 13*; 45 iii 24; 59 ii 4*; 81,3*.10*;KBo XXIX 19,4.tap-pa-ad-da: 46 iv 11.[t]a-ap-pa-at-ta: 8 i 7*(?).Imv3Sg tap-pa-ad-du: 28 i 9*.Cf. perh. also [ ]x()tapātta at KBo XIX 155,9, but this wordmay be incomplete.
Eg of sentence:"(AL)T-pshty faren e fisin.
tātariyamman- 'curse'N-ASg da-a-ta-ri-ya-am-ma-an: 31 Vo 26; XXXII 9 Ro 13*.da-a-ta-ri-ya-ma-an: 21 Ro 16.Vo 7.30*.ta-ta-ri-am-ma-an: XXXII 8+5 iv 26.ta-ta-ri-ya-am-ma-an: 29 i 7*; 43 iii 28; 70 ii 5*; XXXII 4,4*;KBo XXIX 19,5*.ta-a-ta-ri-i-am-ma-an: 45 iii 24.ta-ta-ar-ri-ya-am-ma-an: 43 ii 30.iii 37*; 51 ii 16*; 58 ii 8*; 60 ii1*; XXXII 14 + XXXIV 62,9.ta-ta-ar-ri-ya-a-am-ma-an: 49 i 5*.N-APl ta-ta-ri-ya-am-ma: KBo IX 141 iv 15.ta-ta-ar-ri-ya-a-am-ma: 14 iv 2*; 15 iii(!) 2*.ta-a-ta-ri-ya-am-ma: 45 iii 9*.ta-ta-ar-ya-am-ma: 48 iii 11*.ta-ta-ar-ri-ya-am-na: 39 ii 13
Google translate rendition AL - EN: Tatar - Tartar;
Also, the root takes the ending -ia in Albanian when denoting geographic location hence Tataria -geographic location. Tatar -person. Eg. Shqiptaria (Land of the Eagles)
If however it takes ending -i. It still denotes a person, but it takes the form "the person" ie: (AL) Tatari - (EN) the Tartar.
"Translations of tartari

[TABLE="class: gt-baf-table, width: 634"]
[TR="class: gt-baf-entry"]
[TD]Tartarian[/TD]
[TD]tartari[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: gt-baf-entry gt-baf-entry-selected"]
[TD]Tartarean[/TD]
[TD]tartari[/TD]
[TD]"[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
All three versions apear consistenly in cuneiform Luwian.
CUNEIFORM LUVIANLEXICONH. CRAIG MELCHERT / LEXICA ANATOLICA VOLUME 2
Apollonia Dyrachium ta q* motren, p*dh kurve. Ulqini mamin. Kusar i karit.
You can ban me, you cant ban the lexicon, nor the meaning of the language according to Google.
Edit:If the Mods allow this conversation to go off topic for 2 pages straight due to some Greek saying Ulqin spoke greek, and some serb with German avatar speculating without providing any sources, of what value is this forum?

Please, i don't want to see another thread closed. Johane did an extraordinary job.
The complex of inferiority in some people is strong and you can't do nothing, it's their distorted vision of life that makes them suffer. History can't be changed.
So, please, don't feed the trollolo.

 

[Archetype0ne]

Please, i don't want to see another thread closed. Johane did an extraordinary job.
The complex of inferiority in some people is strong and you can't do nothing, it's their distorted vision of life that makes them suffer. History can't be changed.
So, please, don't feed the trollolo.

As I said. Mods can ban me if they deem it just. However, this thread has been quite productive so far thanks to Derites contribution.


What can I say. After 2 pages of antagonizing bullcrap from Yetos about Greeks in 1300BC, when Hellens were not a thing yet, let alone "Greeks". Does he not know as much as who Hellen was? In a thread about the Dardans of Dardania and Troy he is claming Ulqin spoke Greek? WITH WHAT EVIDENCE?



Yeah, if anything ban me. At least I provide sources. Meanwhile Yetos would have you believe the nephew is born before the grandfather. 0 LOGIC 0 EVIDENCE USED

"The Greeks or Hellenes (/ˈhɛliːnz/; Greek: Έλληνες, Éllines [ˈelines]) "

^From wikipedia.

 

[Yetos]

@ ArchetypeOne

Tartaros is either Summerian

Summerian use to double the syllabes to give plural or emphasis

Tartaros is either Non IE Greek
meaning the darkest darkness

THERE IS NO PIE CONNECTION

NOTICE

Greek ΤΑΡ-ιχευω

 

[LABERIA]

As I said. Mods can ban me if they deem it just. However, this thread has been quite productive so far thanks to Derites contribution.


What can I say. After 2 pages of antagonizing bullcrap from Yetos about Greeks in 1300BC, when Hellens were not a thing yet, let alone "Greeks". Does he not know as much as who Hellen was? In a thread about the Dardans of Dardania and Troy he is claming Ulqin spoke Greek? WITH WHAT EVIDENCE?



Yeah, if anything ban me. At least I provide sources. Meanwhile Yetos would have you believe the nephew is born before the grandfather. 0 LOGIC 0 EVIDENCE USED

"The Greeks or Hellenes (/ˈhɛliːnz/; Greek: Έλληνες, Éllines [ˈelines]) "

^From wikipedia.

I appreciate many of your posts and i don't want to see you banned, there is no reason. We can't change the rules of this forum. Just ignore the presence of few individuals here, use your arguments(and you have plenty of arguments, you have a lot of knowledge) and everything will be fine.

 

[markod]

Please, i don't want to see another thread closed. Johane did an extraordinary job.
The complex of inferiority in some people is strong and you can't do nothing, it's their distorted vision of life that makes them suffer. History can't be changed.
So, please, don't feed the trollolo.

It seems to me that it's always Albanians trying to appropriate other people's history though :embarassed:

Why would a Greek have an inferiority complex?

 

[LABERIA]

It seems to me that it's always Albanians trying to appropriate other people's history though :embarassed:
Why would a Greek have an inferiority complex?

Let me remind an old rule of the forums. If you do not agree with a poster, explain why you don't agree. Don't attack the poster or an entire ethnic group. I think it's not difficult. What do you think?

 

[markod]

Let me remind an old rule of the forums. If you do agree with a poster, explain why you don't agree. Don't attack the poster or an entire ethnic group. I think it's not difficult. What do you think?

Neither Trojans nor Macedonians had any connection whatsoever to Albanians That's just the consensus.

And Pyrrhos was a Greek.

 

[LABERIA]

Neither Trojans nor Macedonians had any connection whatsoever to Albanians That's just the consensus.

And Pyrrhos was a Greek.

No, it's not true that there is a consensus. There are different theories and not just two sides. Derite posted different authors, i can post others. So you are wrong in your conclusions.