Who are these J2a's Who Made it all over Europe?

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EngelhornRon

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I think there is not one soluation to all of them. Like some were spread by Urnfield people even (like sample BR2 from the Kyjatice group, being J2a, yet fairly Northern autosomally more than 1.000 BC), others even earlier by Neolithic and again others later by e.g. Greek people. Then we have later migrants, especially Jews, but those should be, among non-Jewish people, only a minority.

The question can be therefore only answered branch by branch, IMHO.
 
It looks like some J2a along with E-L618 possibly made it's way into Europe alongside the G2 Anatolian farmer influx but majority of J2a in Europe today doesn't relate to these. I would say Mycenaeans, Persians and Romans brought most of J2a into Europe -

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If not alongside through Anatolia then possibly a different route, Egypt/North Africa to Greece/Italy though I'm not sure if these people were building strong boats/ships in order to do that. The hunter gatherers in Netherlands were using boats - https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/do-we-know-when-ancient-humans-first-built-boats
 
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Mycenaeans didn't bring J2a to Europe, but rather they just had a lot of it. Their ancestor picked it up, presumably, from the Minoan-related people of the Aegean, which moved there in the Copper to Early Bronze Age.
That was indeed a different, later (Copper Age) migration than the earlier Neolithic dispersals.
 
Haplogroup J2 made it into Europe from today's Turkey, entering in Greece and Rome coming themselves from a history of civilization in the Northern Middle East.

In fact, during the Roman Empire, 30-35% of the population of Rome was J2, together with J1 and G2 they became 75% of the city.
I mention these haplogroups, because legendary people as Jesus Christ and the Apostles (J1) and Saint George (G2) belonged to them, and they're both related to the expansion of Roman saints and Christianity.
 
Mmiikkii said:
Haplogroup J2 made it into Europe from today's Turkey, entering in Greece and Rome coming themselves from a history of civilization in the Northern Middle East.

In fact, during the Roman Empire, 30-35% of the population of Rome was J2, together with J1 and G2 they became 75% of the city.
I mention these haplogroups, because legendary people as Jesus Christ and the Apostles (J1) and Saint George (G2) belonged to them, and they're both related to the expansion of Roman saints and Christianity.
Click to expand...
It makes sense my first J2a ancestor arrived into Germanic lands via the Romans. My family has been in one area of Southwest Germany for hundreds of years, we actually built the oldest inn and other structures in Hockenheim...in the 1500's and 1600's my GGF's were burgermeisters, tax collectors, etc....Hockenheim is near Worms, Heidelburg, and Mainz where the Romans had many many camps. The castrum Mogontiacum was in our back yard, Legio XIIII Gemina and Gallica (AD 9-43), XXII Primigenia, Macedonica (43-70), I Adiutrix (70-88), XXI Rapax (70-89), and Genina (70-92).

Knowing this info, I would bet we arrived with the Roman Legions as soldiers or Gladiators. Just look at it in ancient times, my first ancestor being a J2a most likely didn't speak any Germanic tribe language and didn't look like any ancient German....so he would have been killed or enslaved by the Alemanni. And if he was in the area when the Romans arrived he would have been considered someone from one of the Germanic tribes and killed or enslaved. He must have arrived with the Romans.
 
EngelhornRon said:
my first ancestor being a J2a most likely didn't speak any Germanic would have been killed or enslaved by the Alemanni. And if he was in the area when the Romans arrived he would have been considered someone from one of the Germanic tribes and killed or enslaved. He must have arrived with the Romans.
Click to expand...

AFTER the Romans, there was the Holy Roman Empire, so he could have get there invited.
In Germany, France, England and Ireland the Church was welcomed.
 
EngelhornRon said:
It makes sense my first J2a ancestor arrived into Germanic lands via the Romans. My family has been in one area of Southwest Germany for hundreds of years, we actually built the oldest inn and other structures in Hockenheim...in the 1500's and 1600's my GGF's were burgermeisters, tax collectors, etc....Hockenheim is near Worms, Heidelburg, and Mainz where the Romans had many many camps. The castrum Mogontiacum was in our back yard, Legio XIIII Gemina and Gallica (AD 9-43), XXII Primigenia, Macedonica (43-70), I Adiutrix (70-88), XXI Rapax (70-89), and Genina (70-92).

Knowing this info, I would bet we arrived with the Roman Legions as soldiers or Gladiators. Just look at it in ancient times, my first ancestor being a J2a most likely didn't speak any Germanic tribe language and didn't look like any ancient German....so he would have been killed or enslaved by the Alemanni. And if he was in the area when the Romans arrived he would have been considered someone from one of the Germanic tribes and killed or enslaved. He must have arrived with the Romans.
Click to expand...

The didn't kill or enslave all people, either side, and those enslaved oftentimes survived their situation, sometimes even longer than warriors/soldiers did and many had offspring which could become freemen, again on either side (Germanic and Roman).
 
Riverman said:
The didn't kill or enslave all people, either side, and those enslaved oftentimes survived their situation, sometimes even longer than warriors/soldiers did and many had offspring which could become freemen, again on either side (Germanic and Roman).
Click to expand...
Correct, but I still find it hard to believe we were living in Southwestern Germany before these wars started, for my ancestor to have survived he would have had hundreds if not thousands of his same people (J2a's) to hold his ground. There hasn't been enough J2a's buried in the area to support his/their early arrival.
 
Mmiikkii said:
AFTER the Romans, there was the Holy Roman Empire, so he could have get there invited.
In Germany, France, England and Ireland the Church was welcomed.
Click to expand...
Possibly, he could have migrated after the Holy Roman Empire was stable, and possibly a Knight Templar connection? But I would think if a group of J2a's migrated into Southwest Germanic lands he would have been with many many of his own kind.
 
EngelhornRon said:
possibly a Knight Templar connection? But I would think if a group of J2a's migrated into Southwest Germanic lands he would have been with many many of his own kind.
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If you like Templars, he could have been a Templar.
If we're talking about his own kind, we would be talking a group of Grecoromans Christians or Jews.
 
Mmiikkii said:
Haplogroup J2 made it into Europe from today's Turkey, entering in Greece and Rome coming themselves from a history of civilization in the Northern Middle East.

In fact, during the Roman Empire, 30-35% of the population of Rome was J2, together with J1 and G2 they became 75% of the city.
I mention these haplogroups, because legendary people as Jesus Christ and the Apostles (J1) and Saint George (G2) belonged to them, and they're both related to the expansion of Roman saints and Christianity.
Click to expand...

As Riverman said, The question can be therefore only answered branch by branch. Attributing all of J2 to a single imperial-era source is a mistake that could have been made 10 years, but not today. Some clades of J2 have also been found in the Neolithic of central-eastern Italy, and others again and again in the Protohistory of many European countries.
 
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