Here is a better updated version of the topic: http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...echnology-in-Hungary-What-caused-that-MIRACLE
Why are Hungarians more creative and innovative in science than Western Great Powers?
oriental
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I worked for former military boss who looked very much like Ted Knight.
A dopey guy in front of me distributed cookies after lunch and after half an hour the whole office was giggling. The boss with the same mannerisms as Ted Knight was furious as no one was working. This dopey guy put marijuana seeds in the cookies. He rides a Harley-Davidson motorbike to work. Out of curiosity to test his reflexes, I played a game with him where we had our palms touching and had to hit the other guy's hands before he can move away his hand. I hit his hand every time. It shows he was doped half the time as his reflexes were very slow. I told him since his reflexes are so slow he should not ride his bike as in an accident he might not react fast enough. I left the company and don't know what happened to him.
A dopey guy in front of me distributed cookies after lunch and after half an hour the whole office was giggling. The boss with the same mannerisms as Ted Knight was furious as no one was working. This dopey guy put marijuana seeds in the cookies. He rides a Harley-Davidson motorbike to work. Out of curiosity to test his reflexes, I played a game with him where we had our palms touching and had to hit the other guy's hands before he can move away his hand. I hit his hand every time. It shows he was doped half the time as his reflexes were very slow. I told him since his reflexes are so slow he should not ride his bike as in an accident he might not react fast enough. I left the company and don't know what happened to him.
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Ike
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It is neither trues for the languages of squirrels, for their lack of vowels and consonants.
Ike
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Such a geographic ignorance! Balkan is a peninsula of Europe, and Hungary simply not located on that peninsula. Second: Balkan is an Estern civilization, part of the Orthodox world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkans
Have you ever considered it being a giant chicken? Slovenia included of course, disregarding they would would surely object being a chicken head.
John Doe
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I never said they identified as Jewish, I thought you said that their Jewish background wasn't mentioned there. Ironically, none of them died or still reside in Hungary.
John Doe
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If you didn't know, AJs make up about 35-47% of the Israeli population, the rest are Sephardi Jews, Mizrahi Jews or Arabs. Israel is far from a pure Ashkenazi state
They visited Hungary regulary before the ww2 and nazi power.
Why had they to go home to a stalinist dictature of Rákosi after ww2? Use your brain!
Here is a better updated version of the topic: http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...echnology-in-Hungary-What-caused-that-MIRACLE
Ike
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I haven't seen this stupid nationalistic rants even on Strormfront. Even the most backwards people on that nationalistic driven site are smart enough to see that this would be a bad representation of their country and nation. Since you are still doing it, there is no way you're Hungarian.
Angela
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It appears that not only is it a jingoistic site, it is also a racist site of the worst kind, many of whose members have been arrested in multiple countries. Are you implying that our batch of new posters are from that disgusting venue?
Well, that certainly would explain a lot, wouldn't it?
Members might not be aware of it, but that site is blocked by network administrators in libraries, schools, businesses etc. I assure you that American agencies, along with the European ones, monitor the posts and the posters there and follow their internet trail.
Should these people post here, I'm sure it will also draw scrutiny and be blocked more and more as well. Then, good by to the day when researchers would occasionally post.
Just great.
Angela
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Please provide references that 58% of the Nobel Prize winners in all the western European countries are Jewish. By my rough estimate, those kinds of percentages are seen only in the east. For example, it is only just slightly over 20% for Germany, although the vast majority of those entries don't provide much if any background information, so to be fair the numbers might be higher.
More generally, and not addressed specifically to you, why is there suddenly a problem with reading comprehension on this site...or with following the simple rules of logic? Must posters also be instructed how to go to google.com, enter a name, and click SEARCH? Then once they get to the relevant article, Wiki or otherwise, how to follow the footnotes to the source of the statement?
The OP attempted to prove the intelligence of "ethnic Hungarians" by citing 12 Nobel Prize winners, of whom perhaps 5 at the most were/are ethnic Hungarians. (I'd love to see the 23andme results of those five, by the way.
That is deliberate falsity at worst, and misleading at best. It is also obscene that a country and an ideology that ostracized and attempted to exterminate its Jews as members of a different "species" of human, should now attempt to claim them to bolster their national insecurity.
Once it was proved that his post was misleading, he changed the argument to say he hadn't been talking about ethnicity at all. On the contrary, that was exactly the point of his argument, and these people, whether they identified as Jews on a professional web site or not (why would they?) were ethnic Jews. Religious conversion or even being only a half or quarter Ashkenazim didn't protect them from the gas chambers, but it suddenly means, when it suits, that they weren't Jews?
Then he changed tack again to argue that the Hungarians were, before 1920, great inventors or otherwise eminent in culture.
I beg leave to doubt. Does he really want to get into a *******contest about which group has contributed the most to Western Civilization even just since, say, 1000 AD? I assure you that Hungary will not appear in the top rank. Nor will the countries from which many of our current import of posters stem.
In fact, one wonders what kind of a civilization they would have had, if any, without the Jewish communities who moved there in the Middle Ages. Indeed, if one were looking for another reason for the sad state of affairs in these countries for the more than half century since World War II, one could make an argument that the fact that the Jews they hadn't managed to kill spit on the ground and left is another contributing factor.
Ed. Please do not think that I am "shooting the messenger". Most of this was a general response to the apparent general tenor of the OP's comments, not to you.
Please provide references that 58% of the Nobel Prize winners in all the western European countries are Jewish. By my rough estimate, those kinds of percentages are seen only in the east. For example, it is only just slightly over 20% for Germany, although the vast majority of those entries don't provide much if any background information, so to be fair the numbers might be higher.
More generally, and not addressed specifically to you, why is there suddenly a problem with reading comprehension on this site...or with following the simple rules of logic? Must posters also be instructed how to go to google.com, enter a name, and click SEARCH? Then once they get to the relevant article, Wiki or otherwise, how to follow the footnotes to the source of the statement?
The OP attempted to prove the intelligence of "ethnic Hungarians" by citing 12 Nobel Prize winners, of whom perhaps 5 at the most were/are ethnic Hungarians. (I'd love to see the 23andme results of those five, by the way.
That is deliberate falsity at worst, and misleading at best. It is also obscene that a country and an ideology that ostracized and attempted to exterminate its Jews as members of a different "species" of human, should now attempt to claim them to bolster their national insecurity.
Once it was proved that his post was misleading, he changed the argument to say he hadn't been talking about ethnicity at all. On the contrary, that was exactly the point of his argument, and these people, whether they identified as Jews on a professional web site or not (why would they?) were ethnic Jews. Religious conversion or even being only a half or quarter Ashkenazim didn't protect them from the gas chambers, but it suddenly means, when it suits, that they weren't Jews?
Then he changed tack again to argue that the Hungarians were, before 1920, great inventors or otherwise eminent in culture.
I beg leave to doubt. Does he really want to get into a *******contest about which group has contributed the most to Western Civilization even just since, say, 1000 AD? I assure you that Hungary will not appear in the top rank. Nor will the countries from which many of our current import of posters stem.
In fact, one wonders what kind of a civilization they would have had, if any, without the Jewish communities who moved there in the Middle Ages. Indeed, if one were looking for another reason for the sad state of affairs in these countries for the more than half century since World War II, one could make an argument that the fact that the Jews they hadn't managed to kill spit on the ground and left is another contributing factor.
Ed. Please do not think that I am "shooting the messenger". Most of this was a general response to the apparent general tenor of the OP's comments, not to you.
Yes they were ethnic Hungarians. Their only mother tongue were Hungarian. Many of them is mixed and baptised. They did not know Hebrew or Yiddish. They considered themselves as Hungarian in their own written CV and BIO. Do you know the definition of ethnicity?
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/ethnicity
The fact or state of belonging to a social group that has a common national or cultural tradition: the interrelationship between gender, ethnicity, and class.
But speak about inventions in here: http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...echnology-in-Hungary-What-caused-that-MIRACLE
Why was Italy (and southern European countries) so weak in science and technology and innovation in the 19-20th century, when science became more and more extremly complex.
Can we found the causes of this phenomenon? It would be an interesting topic!
Angela
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Must I now provide an education in Ashkenazi and/or Sephardi genetics, and definitions of "ethnicity" and "nationality"? I should get paid for this.
Ethnicity does not always correlate with national borders. If it did, perhaps Europe would have been spared many of the wars and periodic "ethnic cleansings" of its sad history, most recently seen in the Balkans.
Ethnicity has very little to do with languages in many cases. Hungarians are by and large run of the mill Central Europeans, but they speak a far northeastern if not Siberian language. It may have escaped your attention that there are untold millions of non-ethnically English people living in the U.S. who speak English. It's my understanding that it is becoming the lingua franca in India as well. As for the Jews, while the liturgical language may be Hebrew in many cases, European Jews spoke either Ladino, a dialect of Spanish, or Yiddish, a dialect of German, and yet they were not and are not "ethnically" Spanish or German. Of course, they also spoke the languages of their host countries. The fact that Hungarian Jews spoke Hungarian, even if, as highly assimilated or converted Jews, they spoke it as their primary language, is irrelevant, if you understand the meaning of that term.
The Jewish populations of Europe were and are not similar ethnically ( or genetically to use the proper term) to the people of their host populations in central,northern or eastern Europe. Please read and attempt to understand the hundreds of academic papers on the subject before commenting further. You have heard of Google Scholar?
Also please examine the following PCA's (Principle Component Analyses) which include Jewish populations:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bKZbzT7Yi...xKJg/s1600/Jewish+PCA+Eurasian+chart+2007.jpg
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v466/n7303/images/nature09103-f2.2.jpg
The Ashkenazim as a people have been so bottlenecked, thanks to the murderous, evil racism of central, northern and eastern Europeans, that they form their own genetic group. (The ravages of the Inquisition apply to Sephardim, who are not so genetically distinct.) So much so that if someone tests at 23andme, and has even only one great, great, grandparent of Ashkenazi origin, it will show up.
Intelligence is, to quite an astonishing degree, correlated with genetics. The implications are obvious. I sincerely doubt whether the achievements of the genetic Jews of Hungary can be attributed to anything at all specifically Hungarian, as they achieve similar kinds of honors no matter their country of residence.
You might perhaps have more than a passing acquaintance with the history and philosophy of the Hungarian Arrow Cross Party. It pains me to do it, but here is a quote:
The party's ideology was similar to that of Nazism,[citation needed] although a more accurate comparison might be drawn between Austrofascism and Hungarian fascism which was called Hungarism by Ferenc Szálasi – extreme nationalism, the promotion of agriculture, anti-capitalism, anticommunism and militant anti-Semitism. The party and its leader were originally anti-German, so it was a long and very difficult process for Hitler to compromise with Szálasi and his party. The Arrow Cross Party conceived Jews in racial as well as religious terms, although the necessary scientific capital for a widespread and elaborate program of eugenics simply did not exist in Hungary at the time.
Tell me, when the Hungarian Jews were deported and sent to the camps, did they exempt half Jews or those who had converted, or those who spoke Hungarian as their first language?
And now you wish to claim them?
Of course, perhaps you are one of the civilized, educated Hungarians who are no doubt ashamed of what happened in Hungary during the twentieth century and you are not a subscriber to the vile anti-Semitic beliefs of the Arrow Cross party or the equivally vile beliefs of the Horthyites, who apparently only believed in persecuting those Jews who didn't convert.
Pray, enlighten us, so we know exactly what we are dealing with...
On second thought, don't bother. I am going to strictly abide by the rule of signing in before reading the new posts. That way, my block function will operate.
Ethnicity does not always correlate with national borders. If it did, perhaps Europe would have been spared many of the wars and periodic "ethnic cleansings" of its sad history, most recently seen in the Balkans.
Ethnicity has very little to do with languages in many cases. Hungarians are by and large run of the mill Central Europeans, but they speak a far northeastern if not Siberian language. It may have escaped your attention that there are untold millions of non-ethnically English people living in the U.S. who speak English. It's my understanding that it is becoming the lingua franca in India as well. As for the Jews, while the liturgical language may be Hebrew in many cases, European Jews spoke either Ladino, a dialect of Spanish, or Yiddish, a dialect of German, and yet they were not and are not "ethnically" Spanish or German. Of course, they also spoke the languages of their host countries. The fact that Hungarian Jews spoke Hungarian, even if, as highly assimilated or converted Jews, they spoke it as their primary language, is irrelevant, if you understand the meaning of that term.
The Jewish populations of Europe were and are not similar ethnically ( or genetically to use the proper term) to the people of their host populations in central,northern or eastern Europe. Please read and attempt to understand the hundreds of academic papers on the subject before commenting further. You have heard of Google Scholar?
Also please examine the following PCA's (Principle Component Analyses) which include Jewish populations:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bKZbzT7Yi...xKJg/s1600/Jewish+PCA+Eurasian+chart+2007.jpg
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v466/n7303/images/nature09103-f2.2.jpg
The Ashkenazim as a people have been so bottlenecked, thanks to the murderous, evil racism of central, northern and eastern Europeans, that they form their own genetic group. (The ravages of the Inquisition apply to Sephardim, who are not so genetically distinct.) So much so that if someone tests at 23andme, and has even only one great, great, grandparent of Ashkenazi origin, it will show up.
Intelligence is, to quite an astonishing degree, correlated with genetics. The implications are obvious. I sincerely doubt whether the achievements of the genetic Jews of Hungary can be attributed to anything at all specifically Hungarian, as they achieve similar kinds of honors no matter their country of residence.
You might perhaps have more than a passing acquaintance with the history and philosophy of the Hungarian Arrow Cross Party. It pains me to do it, but here is a quote:
The party's ideology was similar to that of Nazism,[citation needed] although a more accurate comparison might be drawn between Austrofascism and Hungarian fascism which was called Hungarism by Ferenc Szálasi – extreme nationalism, the promotion of agriculture, anti-capitalism, anticommunism and militant anti-Semitism. The party and its leader were originally anti-German, so it was a long and very difficult process for Hitler to compromise with Szálasi and his party. The Arrow Cross Party conceived Jews in racial as well as religious terms, although the necessary scientific capital for a widespread and elaborate program of eugenics simply did not exist in Hungary at the time.
Tell me, when the Hungarian Jews were deported and sent to the camps, did they exempt half Jews or those who had converted, or those who spoke Hungarian as their first language?
And now you wish to claim them?
Of course, perhaps you are one of the civilized, educated Hungarians who are no doubt ashamed of what happened in Hungary during the twentieth century and you are not a subscriber to the vile anti-Semitic beliefs of the Arrow Cross party or the equivally vile beliefs of the Horthyites, who apparently only believed in persecuting those Jews who didn't convert.
Pray, enlighten us, so we know exactly what we are dealing with...
On second thought, don't bother. I am going to strictly abide by the rule of signing in before reading the new posts. That way, my block function will operate.
You do not know the difference between Finno-ugric and URalic language group.
Germanic is itself a language family, part of the bigger IE language group. Germanic languages developed in Europe, but ancient proto IE language was Asian. Finno-Ugric is a language family whic originated in N-E Europe, which is part of the hypotethic great Uralic group (However, the existence of Uralic group is not generally accepted.)
Again: These Hungarian Jews did not speak Yiddish or Hebrew, only some rabbi spoke it in a very low level. They had no Jewish culture, they were babtised, and they went to protestant Hungarian elementary and secondary schools and University. So they were assimilated.
"The party and its leader were originally anti-German, so it was a long and very difficult process for Hitler to compromise with Szálasi and his party." How is the german-hungarian relation related to this topic? Arrow Cross party was not elected, It was Hitler's putch and german occupation of Hungary, which helped the Arrow Cross party to became de facto illegal leader of Hungary in anti-democratic way.
Vichi France and Italy was similarly responsible for Holocaust. Hungary was the only country which did not allowed the transportation of Jews until it was occupied by the German Army. Hungarian state was a victim of Hiter.
This is How it happends:
