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Politics Will Russia Attack Ukraine?

Mmiikkii said:
I recently read Razib Khan commenting that Ukrainian DNA clusters with Poles rather than with Russians.
Basically, that is more European.
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Everybody is different. Some don't view their phenotype/autosomal as their identity; they view their snp as a type of ancient surname. For example a lot of members on Eupedia are R1b-L51+(brother branch to R1b Z2103+ L23+ related) they come from all over Europe but are all descended from 1 paternal male.


Haplogroup_R1b-borders.png



Russians, Poles, Ukrainians = R1a-M458 (Eastern European Slavic)

d73a0958d37ce378a9ea71a7832f4aa9.png

formed 4800 ybp, TMRCA 4800 ybp
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-M458/
 
vandalorum said:
I think that too, look at bebicu, it got my concept in 0,001 second

to the others- I wanted to compare Putin's bunker headquarter to Biden's hugs with unvaccinated Ukrainians

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Do you think the intelligence of Russia and China know the contents of Hunter's laptop? Do you think deleted forensic data from the hard drive might have been retrieved and might be made public in US congress in the future?
 
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Silesian said:
Do you think the intelligence of Russia and China know the contents of Hunter's laptop? Do you think deleted forensic data from the hard drive might have been retrieved and might be made public in US congress in the future?
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You post any more pictures like that on this thread and there will be serious consequences. Am I clear?
 
Silesian said:
Everybody is different. Some don't view their phenotype/autosomal as their identity; they view their snp as a type of ancient surname. For example a lot of members on Eupedia are R1b-L51+(brother branch to R1b Z2103+ L23+ related) they come from all over Europe but are all descended from 1 paternal male.


Haplogroup_R1b-borders.png



Russians, Poles, Ukrainians = R1a-M458 (Eastern European Slavic)

d73a0958d37ce378a9ea71a7832f4aa9.png

formed 4800 ybp, TMRCA 4800 ybp
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-M458/
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Sorry, but that seems to me like the completely wrong way to go about determining ethnicity. For one thing, that accounts for at most about 2% of total dna.

Second, it unites totally distinct groups in an artificial way. My father carried yDna U-152. So do a lot of Southern Germans, Swiss Germans etc. I assure you he would not have been pleased to be classified as a German or as some larger group encompassing Germans, Italians, French etc. His genetics were indisputably Italian, as was his culture, and given where I plot and his family tree his family have been Italians for millennia. They would plot nowhere near Germans, and their culture could not be more different. .
 
Why it was under question? What do you think who they are?
It's not hard to search information from history, analyze it and understand that there must not be a federation like Russia in the earth anymore.
In the state, everything must fundamentally changed. It will be so, but it's sad that people of only one country sacrifice this.
 
Angela said:
Sorry, but that seems to me like the completely wrong way to go about determining ethnicity. For one thing, that accounts for at most about 2% of total dna.

Second, it unites totally distinct groups in an artificial way. My father carried yDna U-152. So do a lot of Southern Germans, Swiss Germans etc. I assure you he would not have been pleased to be classified as a German or as some larger group encompassing Germans, Italians, French etc. His genetics were indisputably Italian, as was his culture, and given where I plot and his family tree his family have been Italians for millennia. They would plot nowhere near Germans, and their culture could not be more different. .
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@2%DNA--Some of my best friends are Italian(southern), other Italians I know over the internet belong to my R1b Z2110 and can be very outspoken racist, although I think they are coming from a position of low self esteem. The point is that we all come from different backgrounds and life experiences. My paternal and maternal side fought with the Germans. Among the Germans there was a hierarchy between blonde and blue eyed and those with darker features. Some Germans (not all) in Silesia would say very derogatory comments against Poles and Slavs in general, much like what is being done between Russian Slavs and Ukraine Slavs(Azov-like). When I see the banned videos of the young kids that are dying in vain(tortured, burned alive on both sides..), I think that could have been one of my sons. Being fortunate enough to grow up with so many different cultures and backgrounds, I have learned that people judge each other even within their own racial groups. I don't judge(even though I was raised in a religious cult to judge people, and shun them, if they did not follow a group and comply to a group of hypocrite leaders, who turn a blind eye to blatant spousal and child abuse of the worst kind etc...), if someone wants to identify as belonging to this group or that group is fine with me even if they have 2% dna , as long as they are happy, and don't harm anyone .
 
For those interested in EUR/USD, and potential money flows leaving Europe to US for a temporary safe haven? Currently hovering around 1.09 technical are showing sell. The site also has Zloty-Ruble(making a recovery) stats.

https://www.investing.com/currencies/eur-usd
 

Watching this video, he clearly made some points and it's just clear that Biden and Putin can't smell each other on the personal level and because of the election campaign, with the Bidens owing the Selenski regime a lot, which being now, step by step, published by the laptom scandal.

This is a huge problem for the peace making process, as is the Big Money involved in Ukraine, which practically bought the whole country, because Ukraine is now, financially, a debt slave of the US dominated sphere. It was dependent before the current war escalation, and will be even more dependent afterwards. That's invested interest of the Western financial elite, institutions and organisations.
 
Silesian said:
@2%DNA--Some of my best friends are Italian(southern), other Italians I know over the internet belong to my R1b Z2110 and can be very outspoken racist, although I think they are coming from a position of low self esteem. The point is that we all come from different backgrounds and life experiences. My paternal and maternal side fought with the Germans. Among the Germans there was a hierarchy between blonde and blue eyed and those with darker features. Some Germans (not all) in Silesia would say very derogatory comments against Poles and Slavs in general, much like what is being done between Russian Slavs and Ukraine Slavs(Azov-like). When I see the banned videos of the young kids that are dying in vain(tortured, burned alive on both sides..), I think that could have been one of my sons. Being fortunate enough to grow up with so many different cultures and backgrounds, I have learned that people judge each other even within their own racial groups. I don't judge(even though I was raised in a religious cult to judge people, and shun them, if they did not follow a group and comply to a group of hypocrite leaders, who turn a blind eye to blatant spousal and child abuse of the worst kind etc...), if someone wants to identify as belonging to this group or that group is fine with me even if they have 2% dna , as long as they are happy, and don't harm anyone .
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The issue of identification is an interesting one. Here in the U.S. it has become all the rage for men, for example, to claim that they identify as women. That's fine in so far as it goes. You can think you're a cartoon character or a cat or whatever.

It doesn't change the reality, however, as far as I'm concerned. If you're XY and have a penis, you're a man, not a woman. You don't get to redefine scientific terms.

The same goes for genetics. An ethnic Italian will plot in Italy. Period. He won't plot in Germany even if he carries R1b U-152.

As for these racist northern Italians you've encountered on the internet, I assure you they're not representative of Northern Italians. Actual Italians from Italy are normally singularly uninterested in genetics for ancestry purposes unless they belong to some extreme right wing Neo-Nazi group. I've tried for years to get my relatives to test and their response is to the effect of "I know who I am, I know where I come from, what can they tell me I don't know? Plus, I have too many cousins already." My sainted 94 year old great-aunt, when I asked her if she'd take the test if I paid for it, declined. She said to me, "We've always been here", pointing around at the surrounding mountains. Given some of her ancestors are documented to have been there since the 1200s, and were probably there at least 2000 years before that, she's right in a way.

So, I don't care if some young guy from Lombardia thinks he's a German because he carries R1b U-106 or whatever. Let him, if it makes him happy. Doesn't bother me. The fact remains, however, that I know, and anyone who knows anything about genetics knows, that he plots in Italy and he's Italian, whether he likes it or not, and no matter what fairy stories he tells himself.
 
Angela said:
The issue of identification is an interesting one. Here in the U.S. it has become all the rage for men, for example, to claim that they identify as women. That's fine in so far as it goes. You can think you're a cartoon character or a cat or whatever.

It doesn't change the reality, however, as far as I'm concerned. If you're XY and have a penis, you're a man, not a woman. You don't get to redefine scientific terms.

The same goes for genetics. An ethnic Italian will plot in Italy. Period. He won't plot in Germany even if he carries R1b U-152.

As for these racist northern Italians you've encountered on the internet, I assure you they're not representative of Northern Italians. Actual Italians from Italy are normally singularly uninterested in genetics for ancestry purposes unless they belong to some extreme right wing Neo-Nazi group. I've tried for years to get my relatives to test and their response is to the effect of "I know who I am, I know where I come from, what can they tell me I don't know? Plus, I have too many cousins already." My sainted 94 year old great-aunt, when I asked her if she'd take the test if I paid for it, declined. She said to me, "We've always been here", pointing around at the surrounding mountains. Given some of her ancestors are documented to have been there since the 1200s, and were probably there at least 2000 years before that, she's right in a way.

So, I don't care if some young guy from Lombardia thinks he's a German because he carries R1b U-106 or whatever. Let him, if it makes him happy. Doesn't bother me. The fact remains, however, that I know, and anyone who knows anything about genetics knows, that he plots in Italy and he's Italian, whether he likes it or not, and no matter what fairy stories he tells himself.
Click to expand...

Putting aside XX/XY; and Azovians/Italians who identify with eugenics of the Nazi's(forced innoculations, untermesch subhuman classes etc...)

Just focusing on ancient Italian(Paternal R1b-L51+ R1b-Z2103 is found in ancient Latins.) ancestral identity, including, language, culture , legends like the founding of Rome .

Founding of Rome is connected to Aeneas a Trojan.
Aeneas had an extensive family tree. His wet-nurse was Caieta,[21] and he is the father of Ascanius with Creusa, and of Silvius with Lavinia. Ascanius, also known as Iulus (or Julius),[22] founded Alba Longa and was the first in a long series of kings. According to the mythology used by Virgil in the Aeneid, Romulus and Remus were both descendants of Aeneas through their mother Rhea Silvia, making Aeneas the progenitor of the Roman people.[23] Some early sources call him their father or grandfather,[24] but once the dates of the fall of Troy (1184 BCE) and the founding of Rome (753 BCE) became accepted, authors added generations between them. The Julian family of Rome, most notably Julius Cæsar and Augustus, traced their lineage to Ascanius and Aeneas,[25] thus to the goddess Venus. Through the Julians, the Palemonids make this claim. The legendary kings of Britain – including King Arthur – trace their family through a grandson of
Aeneas, Brutus.[26]
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If I were to go back in time, do I tell one of my distant relatives R1016 from Castel di Decima (Rome) R1b_Z2103+ who might not plot with modern Italians with Yamnaya component and that he is related by language to ancient Italians or Russians or Ukrainians with Yamnaya component? The same argument can be made for R1a-M458 and Yamnaya component in Russians and Ukrainians.

[TABLE="class: outer_border, width: 0"]
[TR]
[TD]Sample[/TD]
[TD]Location[/TD]
[TD]Date[/TD]
[TD]Haplogroup[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]R1016[/TD]
[TD]Castel di Decima (Rome)[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]900-700 BCE[/TD]
[TD]R1b-Z2103[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]R435[/TD]
[TD]Palestrina Colombella (Praeneste)[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]600-200 BCE[/TD]
[TD]R1b-CTS6389 (Z145)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]R1021[/TD]
[TD]Boville Ernica (Bovillae - Frosinone)[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]700-600 BCE[/TD]
[TD]R1b-Z2118 (L51)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]R437[/TD]
[TD]Palestrina Selicata (Praeneste)[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]400-200 BCE[/TD]
[TD]R1b-PR3565 (L2>ZZ56)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]R850[/TD]
[TD]Ardea[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]800-500 BCE[/TD]
[TD]T1a-L208[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]R851[/TD]
[TD]Ardea[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]800-500 BCE[/TD]
[TD]R1b-FGC29470 (L2>DF90)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]



Maciamo said:
I finally found some time to make the map of Yamna admixture using the data from Eurogenes Steppe K10. There was no data for some countries, so I had to guess based on neighbouring countries or isolated samples reported on forums. That is the case for Portugal, Ireland, Wales, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Austria, Slovenia, Slovakia and Azerbaijan.

I would especially need regional samples from all over Iberia. There are huge variations from nearly 0% of Yamna among some Basques to 16% in some Spaniards (but their region of origin is unknown). The Eurogenes data just shows a lower percentage in northern Spain, but that is not very helpful as Galicia, Cantabria and Catalonia probably have very different levels.

Regional data from Britain, France and Germany are also welcome.


Yamna-admixture.png



Even though Yamna chieftains from kurgan belonged almost exclusively to R1b, among modern Europeans it is the Uralic, Baltic, Slavic, Germanic and North Caucasian people who inherited the highest share of Yamna ancestry, not Western Europeans, who now have the highest percentage of haplogroup R1b. One of the reasons for this is that R1b arrived in Western Europe after over a thousand years of genetic dilution through intermarriages with Balkanic and Central European people. In contrast, in the eastern half of Europe, R1b lost its position of dominance and was replaced by R1a and N1c lineages, starting from the Catacomb culture in the Pontic-Caspian Steppe, and continuing until the Middle Ages. Nevertheless Yamna ancestry was passed maternally in the Steppe and in neighbouring populations, which explains the high Yamna admixture from the Baltic to the North Caucasus.
Click to expand...

steppe-ancestry-eurasia-1100x577.jpg
 
Silesian said:
Putting aside XX/XY; and Azovians/Italians who identify with eugenics of the Nazi's(forced innoculations, untermesch subhuman classes etc...)

Just focusing on ancient Italian(Paternal R1b-L51+ R1b-Z2103 is found in ancient Latins.) ancestral identity, including, language, culture , legends like the founding of Rome .

Founding of Rome is connected to Aeneas a Trojan.


If I were to go back in time, do I tell one of my distant relatives R1016 from Castel di Decima (Rome) R1b_Z2103+ who might not plot with modern Italians with Yamnaya component and that he is related by language to ancient Italians or Russians or Ukrainians with Yamnaya component? The same argument can be made for R1a-M458 and Yamnaya component in Russians and Ukrainians.

[TABLE="class: outer_border, width: 0"]
[TR]
[TD]Sample[/TD]
[TD]Location[/TD]
[TD]Date[/TD]
[TD]Haplogroup[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]R1016[/TD]
[TD]Castel di Decima (Rome)[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]900-700 BCE[/TD]
[TD]R1b-Z2103[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]R435[/TD]
[TD]Palestrina Colombella (Praeneste)[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]600-200 BCE[/TD]
[TD]R1b-CTS6389 (Z145)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]R1021[/TD]
[TD]Boville Ernica (Bovillae - Frosinone)[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]700-600 BCE[/TD]
[TD]R1b-Z2118 (L51)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]R437[/TD]
[TD]Palestrina Selicata (Praeneste)[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]400-200 BCE[/TD]
[TD]R1b-PR3565 (L2>ZZ56)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]R850[/TD]
[TD]Ardea[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]800-500 BCE[/TD]
[TD]T1a-L208[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]R851[/TD]
[TD]Ardea[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]800-500 BCE[/TD]
[TD]R1b-FGC29470 (L2>DF90)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]





steppe-ancestry-eurasia-1100x577.jpg
Click to expand...



Look, I loved Hector and heartily disliked most of the Greeks in "The Trojan War", so I am team "Trojan", but let's forget the ancient legends, or even ancient "historians", ok? Herodotus said the Etruscans came from Lydia in Anatolia in the first millennium BC, which meant they would have been Anatolian Iron Age, which they most emphatically were not.

As for the rest, sorry, I'm not sure I'm following you. What are you going to go back and tell R1016 from Castel de Decima?

Among the things you "could" tell him is that you know of a woman from the present who is pretty close to him genetically, even though her father carries U-152. (That particular sample is my closest Latin sample, and on some calculators I come out 60-70% Latin of the Republican Era with the rest Minoan.)

You could also tell him that he probably has descendants living in Italy who are not only close to him autosomally but carry his Ydna as well.

Are you also asking what you could tell him about men in other countries who share his yDna? Well, I suppose you could tell him that perhaps some of them are descended from some Roman/Italian descendant of his who went to that country as a soldier or settler, but, of course, through centuries of intermarriage with the natives of that place they're nothing like him.

You should also add that there are people in other countries who are NOT descended from him in any way, but carry the same yDna. They are descendants of men who broke off from the group who went to Italy.
 
Silesian said:
Founding of Rome is connected to Aeneas a Trojan.
Click to expand...


It is not considered to be a historical fact, it is just a legend, moreover born many centuries after the foundation of Rome. If Aeneas really lived, he lived many centuries before the supposed foundation of Rome.
 
Pax Augusta said:
It is not considered to be a historical fact, it is just a legend, moreover born many centuries after the foundation of Rome. If Aeneas really lived, he lived many centuries before the supposed foundation of Rome.
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Yeah, I don't understand why people cannot separate legend and myth from history. Even Herodotus who some consider the father of history as a discipline should be taken with a large grain of salt. After all he wrote that 1000 Greeks faced 1 million Persians. No way no how could an army of one million strong be sustained in that campaign. The logistics of it are mind boggling. I mean look at all the troubles the Russian forces have sustaining an army of 80,000 strong. That's with a country of ~150M behind them.
 
Gold backed Ruble is bouncing back from the lows against US dollar. It's going to be interesting, comparing debt to GDP in both countries. It will be interesting to see, and compare the value in gold of Yaun, Ruble, Euro, US dollar as this continues.Does anyone have any idea about the GDP output of Ukraine now that Russia has control of many area's?
 
Riverman said:
Unlike the unclear case, the Ukrainian side posted once more videos of tortured Russian POW - this time they being shot live on camera (region of Irpen), hands cuffed on the back. If the West doesn't begin to report the atrocities done by the Ukrainians and their mercenary forces, it just proves how skewed and manipulated the Western media is by now and that its a hypocritical scam.
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Riverman, I know that wars are dirty, and I know that there is much hypocrisy in the world. And I condemn those things but I'm against a direct NATO interference so I'm may be hypocritical myself.

That said I can't stand that talk of you. Putin's regime don't respect human dignity, not with respect to the own population let alone others. It is a totalitarian mindset with brute, cynical, nihilism as a result.

See this, of course all denied by the Kremlin:
https://edition.cnn.com/videos/worl...o/playlists/russia-ukraine-military-conflict/

It is disgusting no matter how much 'objective' riddles you spend on it....this is not manipulated it's the brute totalitarian face of Putin ('s army).
 
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Northener said:
Riverman, I know that wars are dirty, and I know that there is much hypocrisy in the world. And I condemn those things but I'm against a direct NATO interference so I'm may be hypocritical myself.

That said I can't stand that talk of you. Putin's regime don't respect human dignity, not with respect to the own population let alone others. It is a totalitarian mindset with brute, cynical, nihilism as a result.

See this, of course all denied by the Kremlin:
https://edition.cnn.com/videos/worl...o/playlists/russia-ukraine-military-conflict/

It is disgusting no matter how much 'objective' riddles you spend on it....this is not manipulated it's the brute totalitarian face of Putin ('s army).
Click to expand...

You get the same stuff from the Ukrainian army, in the last 8 years, and now even more so. Nothing is different, just two power groups (Selenski regime, Ukrainian nationalists, US-UK agents and regimes vs. Putin regime, Russian nationalists, Russian separatists). The Ukrainians however were provocative, didn't respect any agreement with Russia and tried to solve the Donbas question with brute force themselves. Again, a diplomatic compromise would have been easy and respect the legimate claims of both sides. The Ukrainians refused, the Russians didn't accept the Ukrainian attack on Russian strategic interests and ethnic minority.

Like you said, every war is dirty, and if the West would present the Ukrainian atrocities and crimes with the same spin and directness as the Russian ones, people would call for bombing Kiev. Its all a spin, its all manipulated, both sides do cruel things, and from what I got so far, the Ukrainian side started it, largely, because the Ukrainian nationalists really hate Russians and wanted to provoke the Russian side to commit the kind of crimes you see now, to have something to blame them for internationally. Its like a dirty talk of a couple, and one side being muted, you always hear just one side smearing the others. That's the Western media.
If you think that's fair and objective, or gives you or anybody else a fair picture of what really happens in Russia, you are delusional.

Its both sides, really. Don't make up a "good guys vs bad guys story", because it's a lie in this case. Sure, the Russians shouldn't have started the invasion, but the Ukrainians shouldn't have treated its own pro-Russian population and the separatists as they did, nor completely ignoring all Russian demands and calls for negotiations. Again both sides. You can pick a starting point for any of these escalations, and you will see it was first this side, then the other, and again and again and again. They are a in a vicious cycle, for years now, largely because of the US interference in the region, and need to get out of it diplomatically, or the conflict will last for years or even escalate to a 3rd World War.
That's the most basic truth about it.
 
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