Fire Haired14
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- Y-DNA haplogroup
- R1b DF27*
- mtDNA haplogroup
- U5b2a2b1
Testing......
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Yes, indeed! Recent genetic evidence (Refined structure in haplogroup K-M526 (Karafet et al. 2014)) shows that there has been a major gene flow from east to west during the Upper Palaeolithic. Moreover and in addition to that, it looks like the Europeans and East Asians both have their share of ancient Siberian migrations (cf. Tianyuan man who was equally close to Europeans and East Asians). Perhaps we soon learn more on this shared ancestry when Pääbo’s Ust Ishim paper is published.
As for yDNA P, its route to Siberia is a higly exciting issue. However, provided that the analysis of the morphological traits of Afontova Gora and Mal’ta individuals is correct - and I am now deliberately provocative - the current ancient evidence in Siberia and America is as follows:
Mal’ta boy, 24 kya, yDNA R, mtDNA U, Mongoloid race
Afontova Gora man, 17 kya, yDNA Q, mtDNA R, Mongoloid race
Anzick boy, 12.5 kya, yDNA Q, mtDNA D4, with all probability of Mongoloid race
Saqqaq man, 4 kya, yDNA Q1a*, mtDNA D2a1 (D4e1), with all probability of Mongoloid race
Let’s see if yDNA C pops up some day somewhere in ancient Siberian burials.
Yes, indeed! Recent genetic evidence (Refined structure in haplogroup K-M526 (Karafet et al. 2014)) shows that there has been a major gene flow from east to west during the Upper Palaeolithic. Moreover and in addition to that, it looks like the Europeans and East Asians both have their share of ancient Siberian migrations (cf. Tianyuan man who was equally close to Europeans and East Asians). Perhaps we soon learn more on this shared ancestry when Pääbo’s Ust Ishim paper is published.
As for yDNA P, its route to Siberia is a higly exciting issue. However, provided that the analysis of the morphological traits of Afontova Gora and Mal’ta individuals is correct - and I am now deliberately provocative - the current ancient evidence in Siberia and America is as follows:
Mal’ta boy, 24 kya, yDNA R, mtDNA U, Mongoloid race
Afontova Gora man, 17 kya, yDNA Q, mtDNA R, Mongoloid race
Anzick boy, 12.5 kya, yDNA Q, mtDNA D4, with all probability of Mongoloid race
Saqqaq man, 4 kya, yDNA Q1a*, mtDNA D2a1 (D4e1), with all probability of Mongoloid race
Let’s see if yDNA C pops up some day somewhere in pre-Ice Age Siberian burials.
Yes, indeed! Recent genetic evidence (Refined structure in haplogroup K-M526 (Karafet et al. 2014)) shows that there has been a major gene flow from east to west during the Upper Palaeolithic. Moreover and in addition to that, it looks like the Europeans and East Asians both have their share of ancient Siberian migrations (cf. Tianyuan man who was equally close to Europeans and East Asians). Perhaps we soon learn more on this shared ancestry when Pääbo’s Ust Ishim paper is published.
As for yDNA P, its route to Siberia is a higly exciting issue. However, provided that the analysis of the morphological traits of Afontova Gora and Mal’ta individuals is correct - and I am now deliberately provocative - the current ancient evidence in Siberia and America is as follows:
Mal’ta boy, 24 kya, yDNA R, mtDNA U, Mongoloid race
Afontova Gora man, 17 kya, yDNA Q, mtDNA R, Mongoloid race
Anzick boy, 12.5 kya, yDNA Q, mtDNA D4, with all probability of Mongoloid race
Saqqaq man, 4 kya, yDNA Q1a*, mtDNA D2a1 (D4e1), with all probability of Mongoloid race
Let’s see if yDNA C pops up some day somewhere in pre-Ice Age Siberian burials.
17,000YBP Siberian AG2 had Y DNA P, mtDNA R*, was probably a pure west Eurasians and had no signs of east Asian ancestry.
Afontova Gora man, 17 kya, yDNA Q, mtDNA R, Mongoloid race
Unfortunately, the Afontova Gora-2 sample was highly contaminated with modern DNA (as indicated in Supplementary information section 5). Hence, the only analysis we could use it for was PCA, and that too after filtering for damaged reads. By filtering for damaged reads I mean, selecting those DNA molecules which show a cytosine to thymine base change, which is characteristic of ancient DNA damage. By performing such a filtering, we can be somewhat certain that we have by and large only kept behind sequences that are ancient in origin i.e. belonging to the ancient skeleton. Such an approach of filtering was not possible for mtDNA and Y sequences because the depth of coverage (how many reads cover each base) was very low. Any filtering meant that we would lose practically all data on the mt/Y. Hence, it was not possible to determine the haplogroups for this sample.
Also there are few signs of non mongoloid people in Siberia whose characteristic seem to be caucasian.Yes, indeed! Recent genetic evidence (Refined structure in haplogroup K-M526 (Karafet et al. 2014)) shows that there has been a major gene flow from east to west during the Upper Palaeolithic. Moreover and in addition to that, it looks like the Europeans and East Asians both have their share of ancient Siberian migrations (cf. Tianyuan man who was equally close to Europeans and East Asians). Perhaps we soon learn more on this shared ancestry when Pääbo’s Ust Ishim paper is published.
As for yDNA P, its route to Siberia is a higly exciting issue. However, provided that the analysis of the morphological traits of Afontova Gora and Mal’ta individuals is correct - and I am now deliberately provocative - the current ancient evidence in Siberia and America is as follows:
Mal’ta boy, 24 kya, yDNA R, mtDNA U, Mongoloid race
Afontova Gora man, 17 kya, yDNA Q, mtDNA R, Mongoloid race
Anzick boy, 12.5 kya, yDNA Q, mtDNA D4, with all probability of Mongoloid race
Saqqaq man, 4 kya, yDNA Q1a*, mtDNA D2a1 (D4e1), with all probability of Mongoloid race
Let’s see if yDNA C pops up some day somewhere in pre-Ice Age Siberian burials.
Yes, indeed! Recent genetic evidence (Refined structure in haplogroup K-M526 (Karafet et al. 2014)) shows that there has been a major gene flow from east to west during the Upper Palaeolithic. Moreover and in addition to that, it looks like the Europeans and East Asians both have their share of ancient Siberian migrations (cf. Tianyuan man who was equally close to Europeans and East Asians). Perhaps we soon learn more on this shared ancestry when Pääbo’s Ust Ishim paper is published.
As for yDNA P, its route to Siberia is a higly exciting issue. However, provided that the analysis of the morphological traits of Afontova Gora and Mal’ta individuals is correct - and I am now deliberately provocative - the current ancient evidence in Siberia and America is as follows:
Mal’ta boy, 24 kya, yDNA R, mtDNA U, Mongoloid race
Afontova Gora man, 17 kya, yDNA Q, mtDNA R, Mongoloid race
Anzick boy, 12.5 kya, yDNA Q, mtDNA D4, with all probability of Mongoloid race
Saqqaq man, 4 kya, yDNA Q1a*, mtDNA D2a1 (D4e1), with all probability of Mongoloid race
Let’s see if yDNA C pops up some day somewhere in pre-Ice Age Siberian burials.
My R1b friends seem to be in denial about their Chinese grandpas. It is alright just add another label onto the Aryan-Celto-Germanic-Mongoloid heroes of ancient history LOL.
Also, as another poster has noted, the yDNA classification for AG is highly questionable.
As far as these samples being "Mongoloid", I'm personally not comfortable with assigning modern "racial" categories to specimens that are this old. Even if the traits do now appear in East Asians, does it make the original carriers, whomever they were, or all ancient carriers, East Asian, or Mongoloid?
I have a somewhat similar objection to saying that Mal'ta is "West-Eurasian" because there is no "East Asian" in autosomal admixture analyses. As I said above, isn't "East Asian" a later cluster formed by the merging of two groups originally from southeast Asia, one of which, ANE, merely arrived earlier and might have been a population where different phenotypic traits had appeared? I think this entire classification of these very ancient samples into "West Eurasian" and "East Eurasian" is very questionable.
You're giving Europeans(Mixture of three highly divergent stone age (Mainly from same western root)populations) to much esteem by using them to represent what should always be called west Eurasian.
My R1b friends seem to be in denial about their Chinese grandpas. It is alright just add another label onto the Aryan-Celto-Germanic-Mongoloid heroes of ancient history LOL.
Fire Haired14, genetic ancestry cannot supersede skeletal morphological traits as an indicator of race! They complement each other. Yes, we cannot be sure that Afontova Gora was Q, but we can still conclude that autosomally 0% East Asian or Siberian Afontova Gora individuals had sinodont dental pattern, as Christy G. Turner II and G. Richard Scott describe in their recent book (2007) that “two sites west of Lake Baikal have physical anthropological signs of Mongoloid or Sinodonty. These are the Late Pleistocene Yenisei River sites in and near Krasnoyarsk. In the city is Afontova Gora ... “.
My hunch is that racial traits usually predate successful yDNA’s. It seems that yDNA P was first negrito. When it ended up in India, it probably became ASI-like, when it ended up in Siberia, it acquired Siberian traits and when it finally arrived in Europe, it became Caucasoid. Probably, this same pattern is shared by all successful yDNA haplogroups.
Ainu do not share any yDNA or mtDNA with Caucasoids. As for Kennewick man, Anthropologist Joseph Powell concluded that Kennewick man "is clearly not a Caucasoid unless Ainu and Polynesians are considered Caucasoid." Kennewick man is not particularly old, it dates from 7300 to 7600 B.C. Anzick is remarkably older. Kennewick man may well represent a small group of people who managed to settle in the Northwest U.S. from or north of Japan and who became extinct.
..there only a few sites in Siberia with Late Pleistocene human remains. One, near Lake Baikal, called Mal'ta, seems to have European- rather than Asian-like teeth (Turner 1990b). Two sites west of Lake Baikal have physical anthropological signs of Mongoloid or Sinodonty. These are the Late Pleistocene Yenisei River sites in and near Krasnoyarsk. In the city is Afontova Gora, the riverbank section from which came a fragment of a subadult frontal bone that the late Russian physical antropologist Alekseev (1998) believed to have been Mongolid because of the size and the form of the adhering nasal bones.
I fully share this opinion. Y chromosome is just tiny fraction of genome, while racial traits are determined by many genes.My hunch is that racial traits usually predate successful yDNA’s.
1. Ainu are pure east Asians genetically and they haven't mongoloid features. I just described them as caucasian like race to make link between them Kets and Native Americans, last two groups have the highest percentage of haplogroup Q, while similar to them Ainu have none. Ainus and Polynesians are eastern most version of western Eurasian phenotype. It doesn't mean the they are caucasoid, but they resembles them much more in comparison to surrounding mongoloids, negritos and australoids.Ainu do not share any yDNA or mtDNA with Caucasoids. As for Kennewick man, Anthropologist Joseph Powell concluded that Kennewick man "is clearly not a Caucasoid unless Ainu and Polynesians are considered Caucasoid." Kennewick man is not particularly old, it dates from 7300 to 7600 B.C. Anzick is remarkably older. Kennewick man may well represent a small group of people who managed to settle in the Northwest U.S. from or north of Japan and who became extinct.
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