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How things changed for the worse in some ways with the fall of Rome. It would take 1500 years for women to get this kind of freedom back.
how do you mean that? you mean women who lived on roman territory lost their freedom after rome fell relatively to what they had before in rome or do you mean women were particularly free in rome compared to other societies?
i wouldn't tie this loss of freedom of women to the fall of rome though. i'm not aware that women had more freedom in rome than elsewhere in europe or near east at any given timepoint. and clothing habits of women were maybe already different during the late stages of the roman empire. could this change be tied to christianity?
I think that the loss of freedom by women had a lot to do with the advent of Christianity (an Abrahamic religion). Just remember that the model for women in the Christian religion was The Virgin Mary withe the emphasis on Virgin. They elevated her to the level of a Godess sometimes completely eclipsing her own son.
all religions have kept women under check, and have organised for male control over females, this is why only men "rule" in any religious organisation ...........not just Christianity , but all religions
I cannot find any woman who controls any religious institution, can you ?
I think that the loss of freedom by women had a lot to do with the advent of Christianity (an Abrahamic religion). Just remember that the model for women in the Christian religion was The Virgin Mary withe the emphasis on Virgin. They elevated her to the level of a Godess sometimes completely eclipsing her own son.
Torzio: Not to overstate my educational background in theological training, but I did take 3 years of Theology as a layperson Catholic and am pretty well versed in Theology and Ecclesiology. Going back to my days in my 20's and even through the papacy of Benedict, I was very active in theological blogs. So while I don't wish any ill will towards this current Pope, lets say I am already praying for the repose of his soul even though he is still alive, so kind gives you and insight on what I think of him.
Now back to your question, the situation in Europe, and I would think Australia where you live from where I see it from America is not the same in the USA, which has a more "market based " competition for congregants. In Europe you have a largely Secular population, a Muslim and Jewish Minority and among Traditional Christendom, the Catholics found in all areas of Europe, but still largely in Southern, Central and Eastern Europe, not as much in NW and Northern Europe save Ireland. You the have the Protestant Church of England (Anglicans), you have the other Confessional Protestants the Lutherans, common in Germanic and Scandanavian Europe and the Reformed Calvinist, more common in the Netherlands and Scotland and England.
The USA has thousands of divergent sects/groups for example. With respect to some traditional Protestant confessions, in the USA, the Episcopalians, the American Branch of the Church of England has had a female Presiding Bishop. The American United Methodist Church in the past has had a a President of its Church Council of Bishops. The American branch of the Evangelical Lutheran Confession has had a Presiding Bishop who was a female. The American Baptist Association, which is an alliance of Baptist in Northern US States (as opposed for example to the Southern Baptist Association which is not in communion with the Northern American Baptism Association) has also had a Female as leader of their Association (The Baptist do not use terms like Bishop, I think she was the Secretary of the Association).
Liberal leaning Protestant confessions in the USA, referred to often in the vernacular as Mainline Protestantism such as the groups Mentioned above have about 30 to 40% of their clergy that are Female.
Here is the thing, pagan Greek or Roman women didn't enjoy great freedom either, in spite of female priests and worship of female Gods. Matter of fact, Christianity abolished the cruel infanticide, of which unwanted baby daughters often fell victim to. In addition, Christian communities were known to collect abandoned babies from the garbage dump and adopting them. Many of these adopted Christian girls married pagan males and converted their husbands to Christianity. What many don't know women played a significant role in spreading Christianity. Furthermore, the Romans mocked Christianity for being the religion of women, slaves and children. Anyway, I don’t like the term Abrahamic religions since it's often used in a disparaging way, and because in Christianity Christ and his gospel are the centre, and not Abraham.
Torzio: in Post #10 you asked BigSnake about Woman in charge of Religions. How did you turn this into a discussion into the Constitution of Australia and why the Bold text. My post clearly in full disclosure 1) Identified myself as a Catholic to provide context to my post #11. You obviously are not Catholic, so be it. The US Constitution does not have a State Religion either. 2) I pointed out that there are indeed in the USA what are in the the American religious lexicon referred to as Liberal_Mainline Protestants that indeed to have or have had Women who were the Presiding Bishop or General Secretaries of their Confession. 3) In Australia where you live, one Diocese in the Anglican Church of Australia (the Australian Branch of the Church of England) has a Female Bishop. She is not the Presiding Bishop of the entire Anglican Church of Australia. I am aware of this because when it happened, more Traditional Anglicans looked to move to Rome, but that was when Benedict was Pope if I remember correctly (in 2008) when she (her name is Goldsberry I think) was appointed as an Auxillary. A few years ago she was appointed to lead an Anglican Diocese.
So I thought the discussion was on Religion and Women in leadership, not what or what not is allowed in the Constitutions of Australia or the USA, etc.
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