Y-DNA Bassarab Medieval Vlachs

[Dracula]

Possible descendants of Bassarab family were dominated by J2b2 and E-V13 , other lineages found aren't Paleo-Balkan such as I2a1b and R1a. No R1b found either.

''The Basarab sample clusters into 11 lineages (Table 2), with sixmain lineages comprising 82.8% of the samples. Some lineages such as J-M241 and E-V13 are over-represented in the Basarab compared to the general Romanians.''

researchgate . net /publication/230049130_Y-Chromosome_Analysis_in_Individuals_Bearing_the_Basarab_Name_of_the_First_Dynasty_of_Wallachian_Kings

 

[Dracula]

Basarab*

Wonder what the subclade of that J2b2 is or E-V13

 

[mount123]

They belong to J2b-L283>Y22894:

RU219 Sibiu Basarab
RU220 Sibiu Basarab
RU222 Sibiu Basarab
RU223 Sibiu Basarab
RU224 Sibiu Basarab
RU235 Sibiu Basarab
RU236 Sibiu Basarab
RU225 Sibiu Basarab
RU241 Gorj Basarab

There seem to be 3 subclades of E1b-V13 Basarabs.

 

[TetaEglantina]

They belong to J2b-L283>Y22894:

RU219 Sibiu Basarab
RU220 Sibiu Basarab
RU222 Sibiu Basarab
RU223 Sibiu Basarab
RU224 Sibiu Basarab
RU235 Sibiu Basarab
RU236 Sibiu Basarab
RU225 Sibiu Basarab
RU241 Gorj Basarab

There seem to be 3 subclades of E1b-V13 Basarabs.

There's a few Albanians in Diber with that j2b line, they must have been vlachs. What are the 3 v13 lines?

 

[Hawk]

Farroukh has done a comparison and he found out that the most likely Y-DNA of Count Dracula and Bassarab was a subclade of E-V13 Z5017

E-Y160670 YTree

www.yfull.com

This is the only subclade which connects Romanian and Moldavian Bassarabi members.

That would make Hunyadi, Vlad Tepes and Skanderbeg as likely E-V13 Z5017 carriers.

 

[mount123]

Farroukh has done a comparison and he found out that the most likely Y-DNA of Count Dracula and Bassarab was a subclade of E-V13 Z5017

E-Y160670 YTree

www.yfull.com

This is the only subclade which connects Romanian and Moldavian Bassarabi members.

That would make Hunyadi, Vlad Tepes and Skanderbeg as likely E-V13 Z5017 carriers.

Without testing of the direct proven paternal descandants of each individual or direct human remain testing this is just speculation on his side. I am also not sure what his sources are regarding Gjërgj Kastrioti Skënderbeu. Last time someone asked there weren't any really.

The study linked above focuses on all Basarab name carriers so either way I wouldn't rule out a noble affiliation for more than one lineage. Noteworthy is that all J2b-L283 Basarabs belong to the same clade and in this particular study both Sibiu and Gorj.

 

[Hawk]

Without testing of the direct proven paternal descandants of each individual or direct human remain testing this is just speculation on his side. I am also not sure what his sources are regarding Gjërgj Kastrioti Skënderbeu. Last time someone asked there weren't any really.

The study linked above focuses on all Basarab name carriers so either way I wouldn't rule out a noble affiliation for more than one lineage. Noteworthy is that all J2b-L283 Basarabs belong to the same clade and in this particular study both Sibiu and Gorj.

That's true, without testing of human remains it's hard to assume. But we can make educated guesses as well.

 

[eastara]

The first Bessarabs were probably of Cuman origin, so haplogroup most likely some Q or R1a Z93. The Bessarabs from the study were just modern Romanians with that surname, no connection to the old rulers.

 

[Hawk]

The first Bessarabs were probably of Cuman origin, so haplogroup most likely some Q or R1a Z93. The Bessarabs from the study were just modern Romanians with that surname, no connection to the old rulers.

The rumour that Bassarab was a Cuman was mainly due to name, otherwise he was called a Vlach.

I stick to facts that they were either E-V13 Z5017 as noted among both Romanian and Moldavian Bassarab or J2b2-L283.

Testing the remains will cement assumptions.

 

[Tanush]

Those J-L283 Albanians that are supposedly close are not ''Vlachs'' but another proof of a common origin and more proof the Albanian language didn't originate in modern Albania but literally migrated there dude from the Central Balkans.

 

[Tanush]

The first Bessarabs were probably of Cuman origin, so haplogroup most likely some Q or R1a Z93. The Bessarabs from the study were just modern Romanians with that surname, no connection to the old rulers.

Genetic evidence supports they were Vlachs

 

[Tanush]

E-V13 was proto-Albanian and some J-L283 and R1b most likely came with it is my theory

 

[TetaEglantina]

Those J-L283 Albanians that are supposedly close are not ''Vlachs'' but another proof of a common origin and more proof the Albanian language didn't originate in modern Albania but literally migrated there dude from the Central Balkans.

This particular j2b l283 line is rare among Albanians and mostly concentrated in Diber, I think they were originally vlachs

 

[MandM]

E-V13 was proto-Albanian and some J-L283 and R1b most likely came with

Dosent that mean then that Proto-Albanians are more of a Thracians origin then? I belive reich lab paper showed that there is not enough E-V13 in bronze and ironage Albania to conclude that illyrians were E-V13 that most of that HG was found closest to todays Bulgaria and that proto Albanians are probably J and R1B haplogroups in origin?? Feel free to correct me if am wrong or miss informed

 

[Vigi18]

They belong to J2b-L283>Y22894:

RU219 Sibiu Basarab
RU220 Sibiu Basarab
RU222 Sibiu Basarab
RU223 Sibiu Basarab
RU224 Sibiu Basarab
RU235 Sibiu Basarab
RU236 Sibiu Basarab
RU225 Sibiu Basarab
RU241 Gorj Basarab

There seem to be 3 subclades of E1b-V13 Basarabs.

They belong to J2b-L283>Y22894:

RU219 Sibiu Basarab
RU220 Sibiu Basarab
RU222 Sibiu Basarab
RU223 Sibiu Basarab
RU224 Sibiu Basarab
RU235 Sibiu Basarab
RU236 Sibiu Basarab
RU225 Sibiu Basarab
RU241 Gorj Basarab

There seem to be 3 subclades of E1b-V13 Basarabs.

89. Bojovic, Durdevdan, Pribojska Golesa, Priboj,


J2b-M241>Z638


"According to Tanasi Pejatovió (Central Polimije and Potarje), the Bojovic family in Golesi originates from Topalovic (topal - lame man). Novica Bojovic publishes detailed information about the Bojovic family in Pribojjski Golesi and their complete genealogy, starting with Boj Bojovic Topal, as the oldest known by name the ancestor of today's Bojovics in this village, and probably also Her-Golesi. Bojo Topal moved here around 1780, and Novica Bojovic cites Andrija Luburic's work "Drobnjaci pleme u Herzegovina", Belgrade,


1930, as the source of this information. (Milojica Nesov Sparic: Hercegovacka Golesa, 2006)


Bojovic belongs to a well-profiled genetic family genus, i.e. subbranch J2b-


M241>638>631>Z1043>Y22894. A


complete match with Jovanovic from the Visegrad area, who was also tested as part of this action.


More on that score:


Quote: Nebojsa January 27, 2023, 08:13:48 PM


42. Jovanovic, Durdevdan, Ubava, Visegrad, J2b-M241>Z638


This region is not the best ethnographically treated, but based on his DNA results, Jovanovic certainly found a distant mother, as well as close genetic relatives. It is a well-profiled group that celebrates St. George's Day (all Serbs belonging to this sub-branch celebrate the same day), 2b-M241>2638>21043>/22894. All of them are genetically relatively close (up to two markers of difference), and the sub-branch for now occurs exclusively in the Dinaric area. Matica stretch Stara Herzegovina-Stari Vlach.


Genetically related families:


- Bojovic,
Nail


Nikolic, Gornje Carade, Niksic

• Zivanic, Kupres
• Nikié, Kupres (J-Z631, 23andMe)
• Peric,
  Catholic, Livno
  Bizic, Grubisino Polje, Western Slavonia
• Savic, Bacevci, Valjevo

From other members of J2-1043, this haplotype is clearly distinguished by the values 635=24, 643=10.


Yfull tree: https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y22894/


According to legend, these Nikolics from Gornji Carade originated from Drobjak, which supports the fact that the mother of this family is somewhere on the Potarje-Polimije stretch. Also 1 line of Thaçi Kolesjan tribe has Y22894 which 50% could I belong becasue other Thaçi Kolesjan tribe are J2b L283 FT124757
There origin can be from Old Herzegovina most from Northen Part of Montegro or South West Serbia

 

[Karabars]

Farroukh has done a comparison and he found out that the most likely Y-DNA of Count Dracula and Bassarab was a subclade of E-V13 Z5017

E-Y160670 YTree

www.yfull.com

This is the only subclade which connects Romanian and Moldavian Bassarabi members.

That would make Hunyadi, Vlad Tepes and Skanderbeg as likely E-V13 Z5017 carriers.

Hunyadi is BY4281, which gives this map:

 

[Marcthegenealogist]

The first Bessarabs were probably of Cuman origin, so haplogroup most likely some Q or R1a Z93. The Bessarabs from the study were just modern Romanians with that surname, no connection to the old rulers.

Honestly, I'd say that you're wrong. The Basarab Cuman theory is wrong, you got to understand that certain names don't lead to automatic ancestry for example the various Romanian surnames for other nationalities such as "Ungureanu", "Neamtu", or "Sarbu" which mean Hungarian, German and Serbian respectively, and while some of these could indicate ancestry from those countries it's not certain. In terms of DNA, the Basarabs had haplogroup E1b1b1a1b1a6a1c~ (could be a more detailed subclade of EV13), a clear sign of Vlach ancestry, common among ancient Illyrians and modern Albanians, another family with the same haplogroup is the Hunyadi family, which is of Vlach origin as well.

 

[Riverman]

E-V13 was prehistorically and historically the haplogroup of the Daco-Thracians. The Daco-Thracians had various contacts to other people, including steppe people on the Pontic steppe, which allows all kind of scenarios, but indeed, a Daco-Thracian/Daco-Roman origin earlier and Vlach later is by far the most likely. The typical main Vlach branches, like those of the Hunyadi have a very typical pattern:

Post in thread 'Y-DNA Bassarab Medieval Vlachs'

Dec 19, 2024

The first Bessarabs were probably of Cuman origin, so haplogroup most likely some Q or R1a Z93. The Bessarabs from the study were just modern Romanians with that surname, no connection to the old rulers.

Honestly, I'd say that you're wrong. The Basarab Cuman theory is wrong, you got to understand that certain names don't lead to automatic ancestry for example the various Romanian surnames for other nationalities such as "Ungureanu", "Neamtu", or "Sarbu" which mean Hungarian, German and Serbian respectively, and while some of these could indicate ancestry from those countries it's...

• Marcthegenealogist

They split in late Roman times from the Swiss branch and start a big founder event in South Eastern Europe around 600-900 AD. For the Hunyadi-branch it was 700 AD estimated by FTDNA.

the Basarabs had haplogroup E1b1b1a1b1a6a1c~

Where do you got that from? If it would be true, it would be the same Vlach founder branch as that of the Hunyadis.

 

[Marcthegenealogist]

E-V13 was prehistorically and historically the haplogroup of the Daco-Thracians. The Daco-Thracians had various contacts to other people, including steppe people on the Pontic steppe, which allows all kind of scenarios, but indeed, a Daco-Thracian/Daco-Roman origin earlier and Vlach later is by far the most likely. The typical main Vlach branches, like those of the Hunyadi have a very typical pattern:

Post in thread 'Y-DNA Bassarab Medieval Vlachs'

Dec 19, 2024

The first Bessarabs were probably of Cuman origin, so haplogroup most likely some Q or R1a Z93. The Bessarabs from the study were just modern Romanians with that surname, no connection to the old rulers.

Honestly, I'd say that you're wrong. The Basarab Cuman theory is wrong, you got to understand that certain names don't lead to automatic ancestry for example the various Romanian surnames for other nationalities such as "Ungureanu", "Neamtu", or "Sarbu" which mean Hungarian, German and Serbian respectively, and while some of these could indicate ancestry from those countries it's...

• Marcthegenealogist

They split in late Roman times from the Swiss branch and start a big founder event in South Eastern Europe around 600-900 AD. For the Hunyadi-branch it was 700 AD estimated by FTDNA.




Where do you got that from? If it would be true, it would be the same Vlach founder branch as that of the Hunyadis.

I've used a lot of different programs and looked through several genealogical studies, but I used Mytrueancestry for this example, a platform with haplogroup information on almost every European royal house, note that not all of their haplogroups are exact and may not be the exact subclade.

 

[Karabars]

E-V13 was prehistorically and historically the haplogroup of the Daco-Thracians. The Daco-Thracians had various contacts to other people, including steppe people on the Pontic steppe, which allows all kind of scenarios, but indeed, a Daco-Thracian/Daco-Roman origin earlier and Vlach later is by far the most likely. The typical main Vlach branches, like those of the Hunyadi have a very typical pattern:

Post in thread 'Y-DNA Bassarab Medieval Vlachs'

Dec 19, 2024

The first Bessarabs were probably of Cuman origin, so haplogroup most likely some Q or R1a Z93. The Bessarabs from the study were just modern Romanians with that surname, no connection to the old rulers.

Honestly, I'd say that you're wrong. The Basarab Cuman theory is wrong, you got to understand that certain names don't lead to automatic ancestry for example the various Romanian surnames for other nationalities such as "Ungureanu", "Neamtu", or "Sarbu" which mean Hungarian, German and Serbian respectively, and while some of these could indicate ancestry from those countries it's...

• Marcthegenealogist

E-V13 itself is in South Italy, Greece and even Turkmenistan. It's not a Thracian haplogroup, but a Balkan one (Thracians, and other paleobalkans included), that got spread a lot by Greeks (that's how it ended up in South Italy, and Turkmenistan). Turkmenistan probably got E-V13 during Alexander the Great's conquest. The Pontic Steppe got it either from those ex-greeks in Turkmenistan assimilated into the steppe people or by the greek colonists from the North of the Black Sea assimilating. By these, E-V13 could've ended up in nomads such as the Cumans, "respreading" it into the historical Europe. This is the likely scenario on why certain branches are highly concentrated only in Russia and its surroundings, and it makes the Cuman origin on certain Vlach noble houses still a possibility, even with such a Balkan haplogroup. But having a Cuman origin, won't make it a non-Vlach house. As many mixing and assimilations happened over the milleniums. It's just, having an E haplogroup won't exclude or disprove the other possibilities.