Y dna haplogroup T

So Tajiks and Persians but not afghans?
 
This is my genographic description for M70: age of haplogroup, mutation took place: 33,750-19,250 years ago.This step of your paternal ancestors journey took place in the fertile climate of west Asia during the upper Paleolithic. Early members of this lineage where hunter gatherers who took part in Emirian culture and other advances in weapons technology. From west Asia, this lineage spread to north Africa, South Asia, and Europe. Today, it is a significant part of the male lineages of west Asia. It is around 21% of male lineages in Jordan. It and several of its subtypes are present in Jewish diaspora groups such as Iraqi Jews and Kurdish Jews. In North Africa, it is 6 to 7% of male Egyptian lineages and about 7% of the male Ethiopian population. In South Asia, it is 53% of the isolated Bauris Indian male lineages and 7 to 11 % of Gond indian male lineages. In Europe, this branch contributes to between 5 and 17% of Sicilian male lineages. It is about 5% of male lineages on mainland Italy. It varies between 3 and 24% of male lineages across different regions of Germany. (Then there are photos associated with M70) they say: (photo #1): Some 20% of all Jordanian men are members of the M70 lineage which arose in West Asia during the fertile Upper Paleolithic and remains common here. (Photo#2): Many groups of the Jewish diaspora, including Iraqi Jews and Kurdish Jews, such as this man, share the M70 lineage. (Photo#3): This Iraqi man may be part of the M70 lineage which rose among hunter gatherers in the fertile climes of west Asia. From there, other branches spread to South Asia, North Africa and Europe. (Photo#4): This Baghdad girl lives in an ancient cradle of civilizations. The fertile lands of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers spawned early agriculture and legendary cities like Babylon. (Photo#5): Boys from Kashan, Iran live in an ancient centre of human civilization. The nearby site of Tepe Sialk includes evidence of human settlement 8,000 years ago.
 
Then there is another description for my L299 subclade: age: 26,500-14,500 years ago: This man and his earliest descendants lived in western Asia during the time of Kebaran culture. The wide-traveling hunter-gatherers of west Asia were some of the earliest groups to use and collect cereal grains. The fertile land of the Levant and increasing utilization of grains set the stage for the Neolithic revolution. Though the Neolithic revolution did not push this lineage to dominance as it did others, the new agriculture-based settlements did help it expand across west Asia, and into North Africa, Anatolia, and Southern Europe. Today, the highest frequencies of the lineage are in Jordan (16%) Egypt (16%) Somalia (14%) and Iraq (13%). It is present throughout West Asia, and is about 8% of the Druze male population. Toward Anatolia, it is between 10 and 13% of male Assyrian populations. It is present in England and the Netherlands at trace frequencies of less than 1%. It and its descendant branches are present in Jewish diaspora populations. That's my L299 description, is it just re-stating M70, or describing L299 in particular, I do not know, although this was written as information of specifically L299, the T1a1 subclade of M70 (T1).
 
And I also posted the heatmap a while ago showing Egypt, north Saudi Arabia Jordan and parts of Iraq highlighted in 10% yellow areas (10-15% of males in those regions are T).my theory is that they haven't done enough tests on central Asians ( afghans, Tajiks, n-e Iranians) to find the real "power core" of T, its probably in Afghanistan or some war-torn/risky area of Tajikistan, that's probably the home of T.
 
If hg T is in fact linked to emirian and later kebaran culture as my geno 2.0 results tell me, then they are linked to a culture that is named after Kebara cave (northern Israel) and that encompasses parts of the Sinai peninsula , Syria,Jordan, Lebanon and Palestine near the Red Sea.
 
From what I understand T came from K that came from F. F originated somewhere in southern Iraq, one branch migrated to north-central Iran (where K originated.) then K migrated to Afghanistan. That is where T originated. Then one branch went through India to Southeast Asia and into Australia, another went above the Caspian Sea to Russia and Estonia and another branch went under the Caspian Sea from Afghanistan to Iran to Iraq Syria and the levant right by the Red Sea and Mediterranean ( near Jordan/Egypt).
 
From what I understand T came from K that came from F. F originated somewhere in southern Iraq, one branch migrated to north-central Iran (where K originated.) then K migrated to Afghanistan. That is where T originated. Then one branch went through India to Southeast Asia and into Australia, another went above the Caspian Sea to Russia and Estonia and another branch went under the Caspian Sea from Afghanistan to Iran to Iraq Syria and the levant right by the Red Sea and Mediterranean ( near Jordan/Egypt).

sounds good

On wiki link T-M184 ,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_T-M184
the tested people in regards to where they are from, seems to be too old. I have 9 x 3 to 7 step matches with T people from the British isles, I have 4 people with step matches of 4 to 9 with Germans and poles and I have 3 people with step matches of 2 to 7 in Nordic and Finn lands.............all are missing.
I also have 2 matches in central Italy, 4 matches in western Austria and Swiss lands, 3 matches in the lowlands, the USA matches I do not count but assume they are Irish or welsh migration of early settlement to the new world.
These T people do appear on the semargl site
http://www.semargl.me/en/dna/ydna/

even stranger is that I have no South American matches......clearly a lack of iberian markers
 
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So Tajiks and Persians but not afghans?

yes tajiks are persian/modern iranian and not afghans

Most of Tajikistan's population belongs to the Persian-speaking Tajik ethnic group, who share language, culture and history with Afghanistan and Iran. Once part of the Samanid Empire, Tajikistan became a constituent republic of the Soviet Union in the 20th century, known as the Tajik Soviet Socialist Republic (Tajik SSR). Mountains cover over 90% of this Central Asian republic.

Russian geneolists are trying to make T a central-asian group and not a west-Asian group...this has been talked about since 2009.
 
Well it's still present in west Asian populations such as Jordanians, but it does in fact seem to originate near Afghanistan/Tajikistan...you are T1a2b, that has an "Atlantic ocean" distribution? Tell me about that, I don't get it, and how could I know better what my subgroup (L299/T1a1) is from? The guy with the email you gave me never answered back lol
 
hi
i know my paternal linage back to 1730 from city of shiraz from a lore tribe called zand and i found i have Y HG T.
i wonder which ancient peoplein iran or mesoptamie had this kind of Y HG before arrival of aryans with R1a y hg ?
regards


Please be more precise. The Zand is a Laki Kurdish (small Lor) tribe. You are mixing them up with the Bakhtiyaris (Big Lors).
 
Well it's still present in west Asian populations such as Jordanians, but it does in fact seem to originate near Afghanistan/Tajikistan...you are T1a2b, that has an "Atlantic ocean" distribution? Tell me about that, I don't get it, and how could I know better what my subgroup (L299/T1a1) is from? The guy with the email you gave me never answered back lol

the guy...hmm......its been 36 days since he has been on 23andme site. I will see what I can find out for you.

my T1a2b is the northern migrational route people that the project and genealogist state for me. remember that the north of the danube river in the balkans is classified northern, the alps are northern and then from rhone river west side to the atlantic is northern. Unsure on iberia though.
Whats to tell..
PF places me on the french-italian border
BGA places me on the austrian-italian border
ISOGG states me as eastern alps
Doug , says ancient northern yugoslavia area ( i guess illyrian)
T project still undecided , but northern european
ALPGEN project state me as Venetic-adriatic
DNAtribes states me as east austrian but beginning in north caucasus on the black sea.
eurogenes guy - on the swiss-italian-austrian border

I used to believe in admixture results , but they are only partly correct, the chromosome results as per some from above seem better
 
Did your T go north of Caspian Sea to north Europe or south through Middle East,
 
Alright I appreciate it : )
 
Did your T go north of Caspian Sea to north Europe or south through Middle East,

I was told, north of caspian and then along the danube river ............but are they sure
 
Considering that Rene is a Feyli Kurd ( Kurds that live between extreme eastern Iraq and extreme western Iran) maybe this group of 6 million Feyli Kurds are high in the T marker. They live in Baghdad, iraq's diyala province, Khanaqin and mandali, and across the border in Iran manly in Luristan, kermanshah and Ilam provinces. Some believe they are integral to the Kurdish populatin of Iraq, others say they are much more similar to iranian people's such as Lurs. They seem to inhabit the area on the Wikipedia T map that has 9-13% T. The Zand where Feyli Kurds and they had anciently set up in Shiraz.
 
Ancient Shiraz is intimately linked to the ancient Elamites, and it is was the capital of both the Zand dynasty and all of Persia for a brief time.....where hg T possibly Persian/iranian elites?
 
Ancient Shiraz is intimately linked to the ancient Elamites, and it is was the capital of both the Zand dynasty and all of Persia for a brief time.....where hg T possibly Persian/iranian elites?

No one denied that ancient Elamite homeland is in the province of Fars but the Elamites stretched also in Southeastern ends of Kurdistan into the province of Ilam, where Laki speaking Kurds reside and which was former known as Lakestan. It is well documented that Kurdish tribes lived all the way into the Pars province. Most of them being nomadic Lors. And there are still Kurds in Shiraz.

The Zand Dynasty was actually of Laki (small Lors) Kurdish origin.

Die Zand-Dynastie war ein iranisches[1] Herrscherhaus, das 1750–1794 in Persien regierte und aus dem kurdischen Stamm der Lak hervorging.[2]
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zand-Dynastie

Use google Translater.


I also knew a Kurd from Ilam province who is also yDNA T funnily enough he looks very Bud Spencer like.
 
Considering that Rene is a Feyli Kurd ( Kurds that live between extreme eastern Iraq and extreme western Iran) maybe this group of 6 million Feyli Kurds are high in the T marker. They live in Baghdad, iraq's diyala province, Khanaqin and mandali, and across the border in Iran manly in Luristan, kermanshah and Ilam provinces. Some believe they are integral to the Kurdish populatin of Iraq, others say they are much more similar to iranian people's such as Lurs. They seem to inhabit the area on the Wikipedia T map that has 9-13% T. The Zand where Feyli Kurds and they had anciently set up in Shiraz.

Well if Rene is a Feyli (Lak) Kurd than he should mentioned that. Since he is a Feyli from Sweden now I am sure he is the person I am talking about :LOL: He looks kinda Bud Spencer.


I don't know if he remembers me.


Well I know a few Feylis and most of the are a blend of R1b, R1a and some J1* + T.


Look you seem to mix things up. "Iranian people" is a general term collecting all Iranian speaking ethnicities and is not only bound to the boundaries of modern state Iran. Ossetians, Tajiks and Pashtuns are also Iranians by wider sense.

The Lors just a century ago where all considered as major Kurdish tribe. And it is well documented in Iranian and as well Kurdish source of the first century to 16 century AD. In the Serefname written in 16 century Sherefhan el Betlisi mentions the Lors as a major tribe of the Kurds.


throughout the centuries there was a "brotherwar" between the two Lor groups (big and small Lors). The small Lors preserved there original language which is in fact part of the Northwest Irannian group and clustered under Kurdish dialects.

The Kurdish language has two main groups of the Northwestern branch one bigger the Kurdish proper and a secondary smaller Goran-Dimli group.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...e_v2.0.png/575px-Iranian_Family_Tree_v2.0.png

There under the larger Kurdish proper bough you will see Laki.

unfortunately the big Lors through geographic proximity to Persian speakers where influenced by them and through time started slightly turning more and more into the Southwestern linguistic direction. Today they are classified linguistically into the Southwestern branch but distinct to both Persian and Kurdish.
Though their traditions and clothings are undeniably still Kurdish. They have the typical Kurdish circle dances on weddings while Persians/Iranians do not know this.

the Laks are even more clear, they speak, cloth and dance Kurdish.

Of course it is in the interests of the Iranian regime to convince them the opposite though its clear as water what they are.
 
I don't look very bud spencer. Lol
 
Haplogroup T seems to have a "high" in the ancient Elamite region of southwestern Iran. ( on maps anyways) and this is also not too far from where our shirazi friend originates.
 

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