Y-DNA of Sumerians?

XipeTotek said:
i think they are not sumerian they are akkadian. also sumerians and semitic peoples have relationship.

so you cant say original turks are hairy. they came from central asia. but today in turkey we are so much hairy. its doing in 1000 years. sumerians so many years mixed with akkadians.
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aton.ttu.edu Bahaeddin_Ogel.asp

Description of Oğuz Kağan in the Oğuz Kağan Epic:

Bir insan idi fakat, tüyleri dolu idi(He was a human, but he was hairy),
Vücudu kıllı idi, çok uzun boylu idi(His body was hairy, he was very tall).
Güder at sürüleri, tutar, atlara biner,
Daha bu yaşta iken, çıkar, avlara gider.
Geceler günler geçti, nice seneler doldu.
Oguz da büyüyerek, bir yahşi yiğit oldu!
 
Not sure if Q1a2 is a central asian or even siberian lineage, it looks very linked with eastern european R1b and migrate with them to found Afanasievo. Looks more like turkish people who replaced tocharians take that lineage with them. Turko-Mongols must have mostly be C2 and other clades of Q.
 
halfalp said:
Not sure if Q1a2 is a central asian or even siberian lineage,
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It is. Among isolated tribes such as the Dayak people in Indonesia and parts of Northern Thailand. the "Q people" are also the ancestors of most native American tribes. And another thing they have in common: tribes exclusively from that line tend to be 100 percent blood group O positive.

In Sumer however, rh negative blood was present.
 
firetown said:
It is. Among isolated tribes such as the Dayak people in Indonesia and parts of Northern Thailand. the "Q people" are also the ancestors of most native American tribes. And another thing they have in common: tribes exclusively from that line tend to be 100 percent blood group O positive.

In Sumer however, rh negative blood was present.
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blood groups are not too informative markers taken under these forms; it could be better to have the subgroups + rhesus groups, not only O, A or B -
the same for Y-Q haplo: very broadly spred and not too informative under this rough form -
no offense
 
MOESAN said:
it could be better to have the subgroups + rhesus groups,
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that is exactly what I am saying. R1b y-DNA carriers these days carry some of the largest amounts of rh negatives. If the original natives of the Americas carried r1b, how do you explain the complete absence of rh- blood?
 
firetown said:
It is. Among isolated tribes such as the Dayak people in Indonesia and parts of Northern Thailand. the "Q people" are also the ancestors of most native American tribes. And another thing they have in common: tribes exclusively from that line tend to be 100 percent blood group O positive.

In Sumer however, rh negative blood was present.
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I was talking about the specific Q1a2, not the haplogroup Q in general. Q1a2 is found in mesolithic Latvia and Chalcolithic Khvalynsk alongside Afanasevo. It would be crazy that the same subclade would be found in baltic mesolithic and modern indonesia.
 
halfalp said:
I was talking about the specific Q1a2, not the haplogroup Q in general. Q1a2 is found in mesolithic Latvia and Chalcolithic Khvalynsk alongside Afanasevo. It would be crazy that the same subclade would be found in baltic mesolithic and modern indonesia.
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I was not aware of that one and I find limited data on it. None on Latvia, but loads on Afghanistan. Of course, the mongols come to mind. How about frequencies in Hungary and Finland?
 
firetown said:
I was not aware of that one and I find limited data on it. None on Latvia, but loads on Afghanistan. Of course, the mongols come to mind. How about frequencies in Hungary and Finland?
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Sorry, the Khvalynsk individual is only Q1a with mtdna U4a2, it was from the paper " Eight thousand years of natural selection in Europe " from Iain Mathieson et al. The Q1a2 of mesolithic baltic was from the paper " The neolithic transition in the baltic was not driven by admixture with early european farmers ". I also believe if i'm not wrong that Q1a and or Q1a2 is found in modern Scandinavia without any recent siberian or native american input.
 
But Goetaland in Southern Sweden shows up for 5 percent of y-DNA being just that. Why?
 
How do we explain Swastikas in pre-Sumerian and Sumerian-era Mesopotamia? Even in clearly non-IE cultures nearby, like with the Phoenicians (much later) we often see Swastikas. Yet it (the Swastika) seems to originate from the Balkans/Ukraine. It would be a bit odd if all these Swastikas didn’t have anything to do with the Indo-Europeans...
I think Maciamo’s long-standing theory is spot on to be honest, and it also matches what Reich has been saying recently.
R1b crossed the Caucasus into the PC Steppe as the IE culture-bearers.
The only question I really have is why R1b seems to be so associated with Gedrosian admixture, if it spread from the Balkans (and not Iran) into West Asia. I mean, the Irish have roughly the same amount of Gedrosian as Armenians...
 
ToBeOrNotToBe said:
How do we explain Swastikas in pre-Sumerian and Sumerian-era Mesopotamia? Even in clearly non-IE cultures nearby, like with the Phoenicians (much later) we often see Swastikas. Yet it (the Swastika) seems to originate from the Balkans/Ukraine. It would be a bit odd if all these Swastikas didn’t have anything to do with the Indo-Europeans...
I think Maciamo’s long-standing theory is spot on to be honest, and it also matches what Reich has been saying recently.
R1b crossed the Caucasus into the PC Steppe as the IE culture-bearers.
The only question I really have is why R1b seems to be so associated with Gedrosian admixture, if it spread from the Balkans (and not Iran) into West Asia. I mean, the Irish have roughly the same amount of Gedrosian as Armenians...
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There is Swastikas all over eurasia in the paleolithic. That's not a specific middle-eastern symbolic sign.
 
halfalp said:
There is Swastikas all over eurasia in the paleolithic. That's not a specific middle-eastern symbolic sign.
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Yup, R1 tribes were mammoth hunters, so they roamed a wide expanse. R1b was probably intrusive into the Middle East, but mainly developed there. I think.
 
Rhesus is only one marker for blood which countains a lot of others - by the way some markers are linked to very selective genes and mesologic causes can make it vary quickly in some places? concerning Y-R1b among native Amerindians (of North) it seems its still subejct of debates... I cannot say more to date.
 
I thought in this possibility: a Groenland origin among Scandinavians; but it concerns more Danes than Swedes, whose viking "trade" was rather centered on Eastern Europe; someones proposed a Turkic (Hunnic) element, send home by coming back Goths. I cannot answer, some ancient and current DNA with deep subclades could help. And the today presence in Eastern France in anciently Burgundian ruled lands seems having preceded the Gorenland conquest by Vikings...
 
'gedrosian' concerns a modern pop of Western Asia; this pop has surely more than a "parent" or/and have underwent a bit of dirft since old times - 'gedrosia' (a part of it) is found in anDNA of Russia at Paleolithic times, so having SOME KIND OF 'gedrosia' "modern" component is not the proof of a too southern origin; what is important is the LACK of 'georgian' in N-W Europe pops (Germanics, Celts) compared to southeastern pops -
without knowing more to date I think it is possible that the 'gedrosia' component in N-Europe came from Steppes, not by force accross Caucasus or Anatolia - everything seems showing that a southern road would have send more 'georgian' -
by the way, a possible remote Carpathian origin of some Y-R1b involved in IE colonization does not imply these first ones would have had 'gedrosia' at the beginning; it seems (see metric anthropo and DNA that maybe since the 4000's BCA central and east Europeans fared very far eastwards -
 
The Sumerian's Y-DNA would be that of Iranians and Caucasians (as in the region).
 
raspberry said:
No. If you go back far enough far in time every haplogroup is intrusive to somewhere. The parental haplogroup P of R1/2 and Q likely evolved in Southeast Asia. In so far your example is bogus. The defining marker of R1b (M343) happened in the Near East. I actually do not know from where Maciamo got the information that R1 people were Mammoth hunters during the Pleistocene.
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Well I believe it's based from Mal'ta. But the oldest Swastika is also carved into some mammoth tusk or something like that. Plus it explains why the super basal forms of R1b and I think R1a too are found all across Eurasia
 
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