Thanks, I will look at it later.
Which are the 2 north italian individuals
The numbers for Gedrosian do not match maciano map for O_italian ( if you think its from south Italy and not from neighbours of Italy up North
If Dienekes has informed you where those O_italian samples originate, or they revealed their place of origin on the identification thread, or you know them, and they're indeed from the Italian part of Switzerland, the Tyrol, Austria, Slovenia and Croatia, all I am saying is that this group may have conserved very ancient Neolithic alleles, which shouldn't be all that surprising as we know that the Tyrol has preserved a lot of more "southern" and "southeastern" y dna. That would also explain the Gedrosia number, since that is higher towards the north.
I questioned whether there was southern Italian admixture in those people because, as I say, their numbers look more Tuscan to me than anything else, although they have more SWAsian than the Tuscans, and they have that trace SSA. I also know that there has been movement into the Trentino over the last 100 years or so, and into the Ticino, and I don't know how much of it was from southerners. So, I wondered if some of these people might have a grandparent, say, from the south, and neglected to mention it.
Anyway, as to the spreadsheet...these are not the numbers of individuals. The numbers represent the averages of various reference populations. The majority of the data is from academic studies. However, Dienekes asked for volunteers. When he had a least five who asserted that all four grandparents came from that location, he included the averages for that group in the run. When you take a look at it for yourself, you'll see that the first column after the name of the group will tell you the source of the data, and the number of individuals in that group. There are quite a few Italian reference populations. There is a North_Italian academic sample from Bergamo consisting of 11 people, along with a group of 5 people assembled by Dienekes who are more generally from northern Italy. There are a lot of Tuscan samples available from the academic world, given the fascination with them, but in this calculator, he uses the HGDP sample of 11 people and the Metspalu sample of 22 people, all from a small village near Firenze, called the TSI sample. (The results for the two are very similar, as the results for Bergamo and the general northern Italian group are very similar.) Then he has Dodecad groups for the areas of Italy not covered by academic samples, i.e. Central Italians, O_Italians, Southern Italians/Sicilians, and Sicilians.
These are the numbers for the two Northern Italian groups, Bergamo first, and then the more generally northern Italian group.
Bergamo(North_Italian) and North Italy in general (N._Italian)
Atlantic/Med:44/41.2
North European: 22/23.7
Caucasus: 22.9/22.8
S.W.Asian : 5.8/ 5.6
N.W.African: .7/.9
East African:0/0
SSA:0/0
Siberian: 0/0
S.Asia: 0/0
S.E.Asia: 0/0
Interestingly, the TSI sample shows trace North African, but the "Tuscan" sample does not, and the Tuscan sample also shows .5 for East Asian, and .5 for South Asian. I haven't quite figured those out yet, but have wondered whether that has something to do with John Hawks' assertion that the Tuscans have a high(for Europe) Neanderthal similarity. When I want to be fanciful, I also think of those decidedly "eastern" eyes that sometimes appear in Etruscan art.
Of course, different calculators, using slightly different clusters, will have different results. If you want to compare your numbers to the averages for a particular calculator, just go to dodecad.blogspot.com, and use the search tool to look up things like K=7b spreadsheet, or Globe 10 spreadsheet, or v3 spreadsheet, or any of the others he's done.
There generally seems to be some confusion about the admixture calculators versus IBD runs. Admixture calculators show you overall ancestry similarities. In Dienekes' case, he labels the clusters that form for the geographic areas where they are modal. IBD analyses try to match specific alleles between groups of individuals in order to find evidence of geneflow. It's sort of what 23andme does in its old Ancestry Finder, now Countries of Ancestry, which has been shown to be extremely accurate in tracking whether individuals have recent ancestry from Ashkenazi Jews.
Ralph and Coop are doing IBD analysis. They're tracking gene flow, as does Ancestry Finder, but they seem to be able to reach much further back in time, and they claim to be able to date it. It doesn't translate to overall genetic similarity. For example, it shows, in this graphic, that there was little gene flow into Italy since about the middle of the first millennium, before Rome became an empire. The significant gene flow that appears is in the period from 4500 to 2300 years ago, and came from the north, the west, and the Balkans. What Ralph and Coop don't show is the resulting overall ancestry composition.
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=v4cf29&s=5
I realize the math in the Ralph and Coop paper requires people to brush up on their math skills, but the logic is certainly easy enough. If, when studying modern populations, one finds that a certain population last experienced major gene flow from other countries 2300 years ago, or about 300 B.C., then it seems clear that the population is pretty much like it was at that time. In other words, what they see in Italy is population continuity since that period. It doesn't take a doctorate in mathematics to understand it.
Just a few excerpts:
A notable exception is that nearly all populations showed no significant heterogeneity of numbers of common ancestors with Italian samples, suggesting that most common ancestors shared with Italy lived longer ago than the time that structure within modern-day countries formed.
Furthermore, we suspect that the Italian and Iberian peninsulas likely do not group together because of higher shared ancestry with each other, but rather because of similarly low rates of IBD with other European populations.
There is relatively little common ancestry shared between the Italian peninsula and other locations, and what there is seems to derive mostly from longer ago than 2,500 ya. An exception is that Italy and the neighboring Balkan populations share small but significant numbers of common ancestors in the last 1,500 years, as seen in
Figures S16 and S17
S17. The rate of genetic common ancestry between pairs of Italian individuals seems to have been fairly constant for the past 2,500 years, which combined with significant structure within Italy suggests a constant exchange of migrants between coherent subpopulations. Patterns for the Iberian peninsula are similar, with both Spain and Portugal showing very few common ancestors with other populations over the last 2,500 years. However, the rate of IBD sharing within the peninsula is much higher than within Italy—during the last 1,500 years the Iberian peninsula shares fewer than two genetic common ancestors with other populations, compared to roughly 30 per pair within the peninsula; Italians share on average only about eight with each other during this period.