To burn or not to burn: LBA/EIA Balkan case

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kingjohn said:
want to share this
lets hope for dna test on the bones they might be e-v13 , j2b or something else ;)
View attachment 15239
www.sciencedirect.com

The identification of the Royal Tombs in the Great Tumulus at Vergina, Macedonia, Greece: A comprehensive review

This review contributes to the long-running debate over the identities of the occupants of the unspoiled 4th-century BCE Royal Tombs at Vergina, in no…
www.sciencedirect.com www.sciencedirect.com
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Not sure why people expect J2b or E-V13, we already have plausible Macedonian (Paeonian? Brygian?) and Doric-related samples and none of them belong to these haplogroups.
 
peloponnesian said:
Not sure why people expect J2b or E-V13, we already have plausible Macedonian (Paeonian? Brygian?) and Doric-related samples and none of them belong to these haplogroups.
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How do you define "Macedonian"? If you equate the Paeonian/Phrygian BA-IA samples (one sample from Scupi might actually be Dardanian) from North Macedonia with "ancient Macedonians" then the likelihood of their nobility belonging to especially Z2103>CTS1450+ or maybe PF7562>PF7563+ is high.

J2b-L283 was found in early Mycenaeans so chances of it being found in Greek Macedonia aren't too low IMO nor that it can pop up in graves linked to local nobility. As for E1b-V13 there is some attested archeological influence in that broader area from a derivative of the Carpatho-Balkan cultural bloc that might be linked to a possible E1b-V13 spread during the BA-IA transitional period. The Thracians weren't far away from that area too.
 
Funny he says that, because we already have 1 E-L618( highly likely E-V13) sample from ancient Macedonian site of Idomenae.
 
I predicted R-PF7563 in anthrogenica, so I'll stick with it. DNA sample has been taken, they just have not published it. This quote is very interesting.

rYQC9um.png

www.academia.edu

The Vergina Tombs: A forensic 'step away' from identifying the family of Alexander the Great

Written for Current World Archaeology Magazine, April-May 2020 issue and detail extracted from my 2019 title Unearthing the Family of Alexander the Great: the Remarkable Discovery of the Royal Tombs of Macedon
www.academia.edu

If the royal family was E-V13, I don't see how the results would be upsetting given that modern Greeks are high in it. Same argument for J2a. I would say R-PF7563 odds got better. The Macedonians and their royal family rose as adversaries to the Illyrian tribes that invaded the area in 750 BC. These Illyrians so far are linked to R-BY250 and R-CTS1450(undetermined downstream).
 
PaleoRevenge said:
I predicted R-PF7563 in anthrogenica, so I'll stick with it. DNA sample has been taken, they just have not published it. This quote is very interesting.

rYQC9um.png

www.academia.edu

The Vergina Tombs: A forensic 'step away' from identifying the family of Alexander the Great

Written for Current World Archaeology Magazine, April-May 2020 issue and detail extracted from my 2019 title Unearthing the Family of Alexander the Great: the Remarkable Discovery of the Royal Tombs of Macedon
www.academia.edu

If the royal family was E-V13, I don't see how the results would be upsetting given that modern Greeks are high in it. Same argument for J2a. I would say R-PF7563 odds got better. The Macedonians and their royal family rose as adversaries to the Illyrian tribes that invaded the area in 750 BC. These Illyrians so far are linked to R-BY250 and R-CTS1450(undetermined downstream).
Click to expand...

Thanks
It is a good news that they tested those remains
hope will be publish
Would be very interesting
To see in which haplogroup this royal family fall ( even for people with no balkan heritage like me)😉
Since alexander the great was such a mega figure in human history
 
Some time ago, i read in molgen forum that Winston Churchill (one of the key figures of WWIII) was E-V13 S2979 FGC11450 tested by a male relative.

paging_winston_churchill.jpg


Ironic coincidence how the person on the other side, his biggest opponent Hitler was very likely E-V13 as well.
 
PaleoRevenge said:
I though Hitler belonged to similar branch as Napoleon which is branch of E-M34.
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They didn't test the deep-clade, statistically he was very likely E-V13. But you never know. Especially, if he was E-M34 then the rumours of Jewish paternal ancestry would be solidified. But i think he should have been E-V13.
 
PaleoRevenge said:
I predicted R-PF7563 in anthrogenica, so I'll stick with it. DNA sample has been taken, they just have not published it. This quote is very interesting.

rYQC9um.png

www.academia.edu

The Vergina Tombs: A forensic 'step away' from identifying the family of Alexander the Great

Written for Current World Archaeology Magazine, April-May 2020 issue and detail extracted from my 2019 title Unearthing the Family of Alexander the Great: the Remarkable Discovery of the Royal Tombs of Macedon
www.academia.edu

If the royal family was E-V13, I don't see how the results would be upsetting given that modern Greeks are high in it. Same argument for J2a. I would say R-PF7563 odds got better. The Macedonians and their royal family rose as adversaries to the Illyrian tribes that invaded the area in 750 BC. These Illyrians so far are linked to R-BY250 and R-CTS1450(undetermined downstream).
Click to expand...
If you Ctrl + F for "Grant" in the peer-reviewed paper that recently came out, you'll see that this Grant fella isn't peer-reviewed and many of his theories are heavily disputed.
 
peloponnesian said:
Napoleon is E-M34 and he belongs to this branch:

E-Y58897 YTree

www.yfull.com www.yfull.com

https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/E-BY36878/tree

which isn't Jewish
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And so rare in Austria and Czechia, from which he likely had his deeper paternal ancestry, that its extremely unlikely. At the time the supposed test of a relative happened, some people still claimed all E being kind of exotic and foreign to Central Europe. To this day I read questions on Quora like "I got E-V13, does this mean I have Jewish ancestry" and stuff like that.
Some people just don't get that subclades matter. Like even if you are say R-U106 or R1a, you could be in a typically Ashkenazi Jewish subclade and there are subclades of J2 and E1b which are typically Northern European and never Jewish etc.
 
Hawk said:
Some time ago, i read in molgen forum that Winston Churchill (one of the key figures of WWIII) was E-V13 S2979 FGC11450 tested by a male relative.

paging_winston_churchill.jpg


Ironic coincidence how the person on the other side, his biggest opponent Hitler was very likely E-V13 as well.
Click to expand...

Considering that E-Z5018 seems also to be fairly common in and around Austria, in German speaking people from Austria and Czechia, its even likely they were closer related than just E-V13.
 
Riverman said:
And so rare in Austria and Czechia, from which he likely had his deeper paternal ancestry, that its extremely unlikely. At the time the supposed test of a relative happened, some people still claimed all E being kind of exotic and foreign to Central Europe. To this day I read questions on Quora like "I got E-V13, does this mean I have Jewish ancestry" and stuff like that.
Some people just don't get that subclades matter. Like even if you are say R-U106 or R1a, you could be in a typically Ashkenazi Jewish subclade and there are subclades of J2 and E1b which are typically Northern European and never Jewish etc.
Click to expand...

I know in these foras people disregard phenotype, but based on how his half brother Alois and his nephew William looked. William Hitler almost looks like a white skinned watered down African American. I think they are of the exotic branches of of haplogroup E not E-V13. There are loads of E-V13 in Albania and I don't see such phenotype of swarthy MENA face with blue exotic blue eyes, it's not a normal look.
Recently renjet made a post about E-M34 branch found in Kukes, someone in facebook tagged one of the families, and they have this very feature I described, pseudo MENA face with exotic light eyes.
 
PaleoRevenge said:
I know in these foras people disregard phenotype, but based on how his half brother Alois and his nephew William looked. William Hitler almost looks like a white skinned watered down African American. I think they are of the exotic branches of of haplogroup E not E-V13. There are loads of E-V13 in Albania and I don't see such phenotype of swarthy MENA face with blue exotic blue eyes, it's not a normal look.
Recently renjet made a post about E-M34 branch found in Kukes, someone in facebook tagged one of the families, and they have this very feature I described, pseudo MENA face with exotic light eyes.
Click to expand...
The family isn't exotic at all, but on the other hand, yDNA-haplogroups have nothing to do with phenotype anyway. So he could be any haplogroup, probably not even E, we don't know without having actual, reliable tests from paternal relatives.
I don't know how much I can trust the Churchill result either. Garibaldi on the other hand is a different matter, because there are actual paternal relatives which got tested at FTDNA. Garibaldi was 100 % E-V13, but the subclade is unknown.
 
You find such phenotypes all around in Austria, Switzerland, Czechia and Bavaria. Probably they are looking exotic to you, but I know the people from this neighbourhood better. But that's not the topic, I would rather end this here, it doesn't matter anyway.
 
"wide nose therefore black"
LOL
"Exotic"

I guess Babe Ruth was black too.
 
Riverman said:
The family isn't exotic at all, but on the other hand, yDNA-haplogroups have nothing to do with phenotype anyway. So he could be any haplogroup, probably not even E, we don't know without having actual, reliable tests from paternal relatives.
I don't know how much I can trust the Churchill result either. Garibaldi on the other hand is a different matter, because there are actual paternal relatives which got tested at FTDNA. Garibaldi was 100 % E-V13, but the subclade is unknown.
Click to expand...

It was an official DNA study boldly stating he was E1b1b, they didn't test the deeper clade, he was very likely E-V13, but they didn't publish it to make it more dramatic.

Anyway, from the links it looks like it was deduced that Churchill was E-V13 S2979 based on FTDNA results from his close paternal cousins.
 
Riverman said:
And so rare in Austria and Czechia, from which he likely had his deeper paternal ancestry, that its extremely unlikely. At the time the supposed test of a relative happened, some people still claimed all E being kind of exotic and foreign to Central Europe. To this day I read questions on Quora like "I got E-V13, does this mean I have Jewish ancestry" and stuff like that.
Some people just don't get that subclades matter. Like even if you are say R-U106 or R1a, you could be in a typically Ashkenazi Jewish subclade and there are subclades of J2 and E1b which are typically Northern European and never Jewish etc.
Click to expand...
Are we still talking about Napoleon? Wasn't his paternal ancestry Italian?
 
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