To burn or not to burn: LBA/EIA Balkan case

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As for Churchill, most males with that surname belong to an I1 branch (I-S1954), I'm not sure where the E-V13 rumour came from.
 
Again you, the party pooper?

Churchill's paternal surname is not Churchill but Spencer. From FTDNA, the 4 brothers related/ancestors to the Spencer-Churchill (he took his wife's surname) patriarch belong to a subclade E-V13 S2979 FGC11450: https://www.familytreedna.com/public/SPENCER?iframe=yresults

The 4 brothers are: William Spencer, Thomas Spencer, Michael Spencer , and Gerard Spencer.

These are paternal ancestors or directly related by male line with Winston Churchill, also to Princess Diana's father likely.

To me it looks legit.
 
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Garibaldi looks like is somewhere under FGC11457 too, perhaps even FGC11450. The only thing suspicious is their 442.
 
Hawk said:
Again you, the party pooper?

Churchill's paternal surname is not Churchill but Spencer. From FTDNA, the 4 brothers related/ancestors to the Spencer-Churchill (he took his wife's surname) patriarch belong to a subclade E-V13 S2979 FGC11450: https://www.familytreedna.com/public/SPENCER?iframe=yresults

The 4 brothers are: William Spencer, Thomas Spencer, Michael Spencer , and Gerard Spencer.

These are paternal ancestors or directly related by male line with Winston Churchill, also to Princess Diana's father likely.

To me it looks legit.
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Ok sure I was wrong about Churchill's paternal surname. Napoleon is still E-M34 though
 
.Napoleon ancestry is Italian.......Genoese ( Genoa )

Corsica was under Genoa from 1435 to 1768

Napoleon father is Carlo and grandfather is Giuseppe

Napoleon created the current flag of Italy, changing french blue for Green ( his favorite colour )
 
peloponnesian said:
Ok sure I was wrong about Churchill's paternal surname. Napoleon is still E-M34 though
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I didn't mention Napoleon though, i do know he was E-M34, though i have no particular interest (i am not familiar) on E-M34 or other E1b1b subclades except for E-V22 and E-M78 for obvious reasons.
 
PaleoRevenge said:
I know in these foras people disregard phenotype, but based on how his half brother Alois and his nephew William looked. William Hitler almost looks like a white skinned watered down African American. I think they are of the exotic branches of of haplogroup E not E-V13. There are loads of E-V13 in Albania and I don't see such phenotype of swarthy MENA face with blue exotic blue eyes, it's not a normal look.
Recently renjet made a post about E-M34 branch found in Kukes, someone in facebook tagged one of the families, and they have this very feature I described, pseudo MENA face with exotic light eyes.
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but there e-m34>z841>L791 look balkanian and there at least since
late antiquity ( could be movement from the near east to the balkan during roman period though
we already saw some e-m34>z841 in roman croatia so it is possible);)

E-Y329079 YTree

www.yfull.com www.yfull.com
 
I wouldn't connect yDNA with any sort of phenotype, especially facial features. If at all, you have look at autosomal results for such conclusions.
PaleoRevenge said:
I know in these foras people disregard phenotype, but based on how his half brother Alois and his nephew William looked. William Hitler almost looks like a white skinned watered down African American. I think they are of the exotic branches of of haplogroup E not E-V13. There are loads of E-V13 in Albania and I don't see such phenotype of swarthy MENA face with blue exotic blue eyes, it's not a normal look.
Recently renjet made a post about E-M34 branch found in Kukes, someone in facebook tagged one of the families, and they have this very feature I described, pseudo MENA face with exotic light eyes.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't connect yDNA with any sort of phenotype, especially facial features. If at all, you have to look at autosomal results for such conclusions.
 
peloponnesian said:
One of the Olalde et al samples from Viminacium is close to Napoleon's branch, he has a Western Anatolian profile.
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The Roman era is a long time ago and there was a West Asian shifted E-V13 there as well. Anyway, the specific branch of Napoleon is
discover.familytreedna.com

Welcome to FamilyTreeDNA Discover

Discover more about your paternal ancestry and join in on the research!
discover.familytreedna.com discover.familytreedna.com

E-Y195137 YTree

www.yfull.com www.yfull.com

His immediate matches are all Italian and the upstream ones German and Dutch. On YFull we see a West Asian trend, but the Italian TMRCA is more than 1.000 years ago, so even if its Roman, its in Europe for a longer period of time.
 
Riverman said:
You find such phenotypes all around in Austria, Switzerland, Czechia and Bavaria. Probably they are looking exotic to you, but I know the people from this neighbourhood better. But that's not the topic, I would rather end this here, it doesn't matter anyway.
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I looked up Alois and William Hitler on Google, studied a great number of available photos and I just don't see what this guy is talking about. It's a typical central European phenotype. It could be R1b, R1a, I1, I2a, G2a...

The phenotype is definitely not determined by Y-DNA except maybe in areas where consanguineous marriage is practiced. But even in that case it wouldn't be due to the paternal or maternal haplogroup. The stuff that people claim...
 
norbert said:
I looked up Alois and William Hitler on Google, studied a great number of available photos and I just don't see what this guy is talking about.
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He's not passing an SS inspection, whether you see it or not.

norbert said:
It's a typical central European phenotype. It could be R1b, R1a, I1, I2a, G2a...
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Or a giraffe, elephant, you guys make a good point. Haplogroup is just a an assigned letter.

norbert said:
The phenotype is definitely not determined by Y-DNA except maybe in areas where consanguineous marriage is practiced.
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Haplogroups have a big say on skeletal structure, even eyes one expresses light features like blue eyes is different between haplogroups. Pretty much I2a Yugolsavs look like a cloned variations of themselves, majority of the time. Two serbs of same y-haplogroup have a good chance looking like brothers if they have the same maternal haplogroup, even if there is zero biologival relations between the two. Haplogroups matter.
This is not a racial forum or inteded for that, and such observations have become illegal. I don't think in Riverman's land one is allowed to engage in such discussions, which is not a merit for your side of the argument. I would not waste time talking to some normie that bots/parrots whatever is the current (omnipresent) government's policy on a given topic.
 
PaleoRevenge said:
Haplogroups have a big say on skeletal structure, even eyes one expresses light features like blue eyes is different between haplogroups.
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Any paper to support this "strange" claim ?
I think you are confusing spatial "correlation" between traits (here haplogroups and phenotype) with a causal relation.

Such correlation emerge from human population limited mobility, but didn't imply the real existence of a causal relation.

PaleoRevenge said:
This is not a racial forum or inteded for that, and such observations have become illegal.
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I think that if you could prove that Y-chr carries mutations with a significant impact on phenotype, anyone would have anything to say.
Yet, your claim didn't sound scientifically motivated to me.
 
Vallicanus said:
How many times does it have to be stated?

Only autosomal DNA influences physical appearance.:mad:
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Even if yDNA has an influence on the phenotype, not in the way he is suggesting it. First, its not necessarily about general haplogroups, but more specific mutations, secondly, it might have an influence on hormonal levels or such, but not determine many finer details of the face and body proportions in general. We even know for a lot of those traits on which chromosomes they are placed, that's why the predictions from DNA, including ancient DNA, get ever more accurate.
 
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PaleoRevenge said:
He's not passing an SS inspection, whether you see it or not.



Or a giraffe, elephant, you guys make a good point. Haplogroup is just a an assigned letter.



Haplogroups have a big say on skeletal structure, even eyes one expresses light features like blue eyes is different between haplogroups. Pretty much I2a Yugolsavs look like a cloned variations of themselves, majority of the time. Two serbs of same y-haplogroup have a good chance looking like brothers if they have the same maternal haplogroup, even if there is zero biologival relations between the two. Haplogroups matter.
This is not a racial forum or inteded for that, and such observations have become illegal. I don't think in Riverman's land one is allowed to engage in such discussions, which is not a merit for your side of the argument. I would not waste time talking to some normie that bots/parrots whatever is the current (omnipresent) government's policy on a given topic.
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Obviously, those are the inspections you're conducting here. Let's teach you what haplogroups are: clusters of shared single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) found in the male Y-DNA or female mtDNA. Haplogroups are useful in reconstructing ancient migrations and population movements because they don't recombine like the rest of the DNA. They are passed on unchanged which enables scientists to follow a trail. They don't tell us anything about phenotypes but populations with a certain haplogroup dominance share a similar autosomal "baggage."
 
norbert said:
Obviously, those are the inspections you're conducting here. Let's teach you what haplogroups are: clusters of shared single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) found in the male Y-DNA or female mtDNA. Haplogroups are useful in reconstructing ancient migrations and population movements because they don't recombine like the rest of the DNA. They are passed on unchanged which enables scientists to follow a trail. They don't tell us anything about phenotypes but populations with a certain haplogroup dominance share a similar autosomal "baggage."
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Yep, I look like my mother. Dark brown/black hair, dark brown eyes, tall stature. My father blond, blue grey eyes, short stature.
 
I will put my Urnfield related finds here going forward. Regarding Tollense battle -

"In the 13th century BC, this structure perishes - https://i.ibb.co/tH82jTH/Trade-network-16-14c-BC-Tumulus-Nordic-BA.png, it begins to be replaced by a completely different structure. In the 13th century BC, swords of the Naue II type began to spread, which originate from the Carpathian region - https://i.postimg.cc/CKNykn61/Strontium-Sw-ords.jpg. It is absolutely certain that this battle was part of the destruction of that system and the spread of a new one in which eastern ties played a very strong role."
 
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