Etruscans=Illyrians=Pelasgi //// tuscans=albanians ?????

[iapetoc]

zanipolo, there are topics of Veneti...and you can also open new ones...let's not spam here....
btw. I expect reference for what you claim above...because according to story written down by Strabo Veneti were most notable of all Paphlagonians, now you claim they were not Paphlagonians...and you also insert Illyria whereas in Strabo's story Illyria is not mentioned and Veneti moved to Thrace and than to Adriatic... regarding you thinking that Venethi and Veneti are different tribal names, I am pretty convinced that it is same tribal name...it is another question what were the circumstances that led to those people having same tribal name... was it same genetic origin or not... I think it was.. R1a + I2a2...


now, back to Etruscans

father= apa
mother =ati
wife = puia
brother

http://books.google.nl/books?id=VWGN6e5Rzf8C&lpg=PA57&dq=venetic%20vocabulary&pg=PA58#v=onepage&q=venetic%20vocabulary&f=false


fire = uerse
god(s) = aisar
monkey = arimos
king = lucumo
freedman = lautni
son = clan
daughter = sech
grandson = nefts, papals
grandfather = papa
grandmother = teta
children = husiur
parents/ancestors = ateri
dictator = purth
mirror = malena
June = aclus
I = mi
me = mini
you = un
for you = une
who/which = ipa
whoever = ipe ipa
stranger,client, slave = etera
bellow = hinth
gold = zamathi
city = spura
image = sren
year = avil
month = tiur
at first = thuni
again = etnam
now = thui
here = thui
until = epl, pul
also = etnam
writing/book = zich



Aristotle claims that Etruscans and Carthaginians are so close that they almost make one people....
http://books.google.nl/books?id=VWG...g=PA68#v=onepage&q=venetic vocabulary&f=false
On Greek island of Lemnos there are inscriptions from 6th century similar to Etruscan ones both in alphabet and vocabulary...
http://books.google.nl/books?id=VWG...g=PA61#v=onepage&q=venetic vocabulary&f=false

Lemnos is close to Lydia, Carthaginians or Phoenicans origin from southeast of Asia minor... thus languages/culture similar to Etruscan also origin from south of Asia minor...

Let'see who lived on Lemnos

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemnos


now, if the Albanian interpretation of inscriptionfro the start of the thread is correct, that would mean that the languages are practically the same... thus, most of the words bellow should exist in albanian as well.. I will add next to it serbo-croat and greek words...words are taken from google translate... so native Albanian and Greek speakers should react if they see etruscan word that has cognjate in their languages...

english - etruscan - albanian - greek - serbo-croat
father= apa = baba, ate = patéras = otac, tata
mother =ati = nënë, mëmë, burim = mi̱téra = majka, mama, mater, mati
wife = puia = grua,bashkëshorte, shoqe = gynaíka = zena, supruga
brother = ruva = vëlla, shok = adelfós = brat

fire = uerse = zjarr, pasion, fugë, ethe =pyrkagiás = vatra
god(s) = aisar = perëndi= theoí = bog/bogovi
monkey = arimos = majmun, çamarrok = maïmoú = majmun
king = lucumo = mbret, car = vasiliás = kralj, car
freeman = lautni = njeri i lirë, qytetar = eléf̱theros = slobodan
son = clan = e saj = tou = sin
daughter = sech = bijë, vajzë = kóri̱= (k)cerka, kci
grandson = nefts, papals = nip = engonós = unuk
grandfather = papa = gjysh, stërgjysh, babagjysh = pappoús = deda
grandmother = teta = gjyshe = giagiá = baba, baka (teta = older woman, aunt)
children = husiur = fëmijëve = paidiá = deca
parents/ancestors = ateri = prindërit/paraardhësit = goneís/Oi prógonoí = roditelji/ preci, oci
dictator = purth = diktator = diktátoras = diktator
mirror = malena = pasqyrë, shembull = kathrépti̱s = ogledalo
who/which = ipa = ke, cili, kush = o opoíos, i̱ opoía = ko, koga
whoever = ipe ipa = kush = opoiosdí̱pote = kogod (however = ipak)
stranger/client/slave = etera = i huaj, i panjohuri/klient, blerës, myshteri/rob, skllav = xénos / peláti̱s /doúlos = stranac / klijent, musterija / rob
bellow = hinth = më poshtë, pallje = parakáto̱ = ispod
gold = zamathi = ar, flori = chrysós = zlato
city = spura = qytet = póli̱ =grad
image = sren = imazh, figurë, shëmbëlltyrë = Eikóna = slika
year = avil = vit, vjet = étos = godina
month = tiur = muaj = mí̱na = mesec
again = etnam =përsëri, sërish, prapë= kai páli = opet
now = thui = tani, tash = tó̱ra = sad
here = thui = këtu = edó̱ = ovde, tu, tuj
until = epl, pul = deri, gjer = méchri = do
also = etnam = gjithashtu, edhe = Epísi̱s = takodje, isto
writing/book = zich = shkrim, shënim, gramë/ libër, blok = graptó̱s/vivlío = pisanje/knjiga

to conclude, it is obvious that neither of the languages above has much to do with Etruscan... considering this, the idea that the etruscan text above has direct meaning in Albanian as proposed by some albanian scientist is not likely at all.. same text is by people studying Etruscan considered to have completely different meaning (legal contract and not story about ghost in a cave)...

lets see 1 by 1
i don't know it is pronounced but i ll try

uerse fire + p = puerse ??? pur Πυρ ΙΕ or not hmmm could be IE
But Θυω thuerse? sacrifice, burn in fire Θυω Noun Θυσια BINGO
aisar gods aei? for ever, eternals νυν και αει? hmmmm could be IE
Lucumo Λυκιας no don't believe so
Lautni ελευθερος εν λεφ in free noτ εις κλωβο Bingo en + leut +end
son clan τεκνον naaa
daughter sech naaaa
grandson = nefts, papals how about nephew ανιψιος aniphs-ios Bingo grandson = nefts, papals could be IE
grandfather = papa papoys Bingo could be IE
grandmother = teta γιαγια βαβω naaaaa
children = husiur hus υιος uios Bingo
parents/ancestors = ateri pateri BINGO could be IE
dictator = purth τυρρανος p->t hmmm or naaa
mirror = malena naaaaa
June = aclus naaaaa
I = mi not to compare
me = mini not to compare
you = un not to compare
for you = une
who/which = ipa ποιος poios Bingo
whoever = ipe ipa 'οποιος opoios BINGO
stranger,client, slave = etera εταιρος ΒINGO
bellow = hinth h->ch->k κατω kato BINGO ???? hmmmm
gold = zamathi naaaa
city = spura r->l spula Πολις Polis Hmmmmm
grandfather = papa papoys Bingo
grandmother = teta γιαγια βαβω naaaaa
children = husiur hus υιος uios Bingo
parents/ancestors = ateri pateri could be IE
dictator = purth τυρρανος p->t BINGO????
mirror = malena naaaa
June = aclus naaaa
I = mi not to compare
me = mini not to compare
you = un not to compare
for you = une not to compare
who/which = ipa ποιος Poios BINGO
whoever = ipe ipa opoios BINGO
stranger,client, slave = etera etairos εταιρος BINGO
bellow = hinth h->ch -> κατω -> κατο BINGO ???
gold = zamathi naaaa
city = spura r->l Πολις polis Bingo ??????
image = sren naaaa
year = avil waht about sivai vi = live εβιωσε eviose BINGO
month = tiur naaaa
at first = thuni naaaa
again = etnam et+nam GR εξ +ανα -> Ξανα root is ανα ana nem BINGO
now = thui naaaaa
here = thui thui th as in they? or as in thalassa Greek εδω edo could be IE like ovde ?????
until = epl, pul I think there is a Homeric word near aprion But not sure ?????
also = etnam naaaaa
writing/book = zich well ancient pelasgian virb λαξευω la+xeph Z phoenician is Ξ in Greek so Zinch -> Xeph in Pelasgic
λαξευω means i write in stone lazich BINGO

as you see there are many bingo
enough to prove if you add the rest in my previous posts,

Carthageneians or Carcheidonians (shark people, or First people) were Phoenicians or simmilar,
Etruscans are also considered more Phoenicians than IE
Pelasgians are considered the non IE Greeks that create civilization next to Thracians and among the Thracians
Pelasgians are connected with Phillistines and Phoenicians,
I am not talking about modern Albanian language, but for ancient Illyrian,
modern Albanian is Satem, and very mixed,
but ancient Illyrian was centum, and many works connect ancient Illyrian with Pelasgic,
If a good literature man could connect remnants of ancient Illyrian with etruscan in some phrases is not a prove,



the way that Julia put it truscans = Albanians is wrong
same way Ligurians = Armani and Lombardians = Romanians



Pelasgians should Be J2 people, J2 can be found everywhere where Greeks make colonies, also where phoenicians made colonies also in Central Italy,

In Homer we read that Greeks and Troyans could communicate with out translators,
also Achilleas speak to king Priamos with out translator
also Odysseas in a question he mention that Ithaka has need of Mycenae, that is why he ally with them,
both above prove that Pelasgians at Mycenae times spoke 2 languages IE and Pelasgian
That Myrmidons and Troyans spoke same language,
I don't know who was IE or who was pelasgian
but the maps of J2 suits exactly,

Remember that Nestor's cup is written in Pelasgian letters

from right to left




I know that modern Albanians are not Etruscans,
and I know that many Albanians work hard to make Propaganda,
but the case of Pelasgians as ancestor nation culture and language of many is true,
even bible says so,
and is not only eteocretans, but eteocretans kept pure and less IE or Arabian than all others

my 2 problems is the Iapodes and The Thracians,
If Iapodes were E-V13 or J2
or Thracians were I2a2 the whole Puzzle will be solved

 

[zanipolo]

I always read that Etruscans was the mother of the Raetia language, but
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegean_languages
indicates this to be wrong. Wrong in the sense that if these languages are linked , then trade or tribal relationship must be the answer for the links with the tyrol and bavarian areas

If the link above is correct, then Raetian was responsible for the migration of this "etruscan" language to istrian border and to the middle Switzerland.

- In the link provided , if you go down the page and enter the myres link, there is more info


BTW - off topic, but is there are setting to adjust the time out of being logged out. I have to relog here every 2 minutes and this causes issues with text written

 

[Taranis]

Actually, I'm a tad surprised that they have the Raetians extend that far north on the map, because from what is known, southern Bavaria was definitely a Celtic area (Vindelicia). But, the confusion is near-perfect:

- Administratively, the Romans lumped Raetia and Vindelicia together as a single province.

- The "Raetian" tribes were a very heterogenous group, which variably also included apparently Celtic or Venetic tribes in addition to what appear to be the "real" Raeti.

- On the other hand, the language used in the Raetian inscriptions (as opposed to Lepontic, Noric or Venetic) definitely was a relative of Etruscan.

 

[how yes no 2]

BTW - off topic, but is there are setting to adjust the time out of being logged out. I have to relog here every 2 minutes and this causes issues with text written

try using "remember me" checkbox when you log in...

enough to prove if you add the rest in my previous posts,
Carthageneians or Carcheidonians (shark people, or First people) were Phoenicians or simmilar,
Etruscans are also considered more Phoenicians than IE
Pelasgians are considered the non IE Greeks that create civilization next to Thracians and among the Thracians
Pelasgians are connected with Phillistines and Phoenicians,
I am not talking about modern Albanian language, but for ancient Illyrian,
modern Albanian is Satem, and very mixed,
but ancient Illyrian was centum, and many works connect ancient Illyrian with Pelasgic,
If a good literature man could connect remnants of ancient Illyrian with etruscan in some phrases is not a prove,

iapetoc, if Greek has most cognjates with Etruscan good reason for that could be that Etruscans origin from Minoans...
though Minoans were considered related to Pelasgians...

Pelasgians should Be J2 people, J2 can be found everywhere where Greeks make colonies, also where phoenicians made colonies also in Central Italy,

J2 is good candidate, but..
R1a correlates pretty well too... look how well it matches Etruscans...

both J2 and R1a show clear holes in spread in Lydia and islands in Umbria... fitting exactly to supposed movement of Etruscans...
but J2 hotspot in Italy is south of Etruscans... it maps to italics or Osco-Umbrians according to maps bellow...

R1a is also widespread on Crete, Rethymnon has 22.7% of R1a ..Lashiti plateau is highland...thus place where previous inhabitants would move from low lands upon arrival of invaders...Lasithi plateau has 19,5% of R1a while Lashiti province around it has 4,3%... J2 would on Crete would be Mycenean invaders...

thus, R1a is possible legacy of Minoians and Pelasgues... and, probably is dominant in Etruscans followed by J2 and G...

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2008/05/exploring-y-chromosome-haplogroup.html

 

[zanipolo]

try using "remember me" checkbox when you log in...


iapetoc, if Greek has most cognjates with Etruscan good reason for that could be that Etruscans origin from Minoans...
though Minoans were considered related to Pelasgians...



J2 is good candidate, but..
R1a correlates pretty well too... look how well it matches Etruscans...

both J2 and R1a show clear holes in spread in Lydia and islands in Umbria... fitting exactly to supposed movement of Etruscans...
but J2 hotspot in Italy is south of Etruscans... it maps to italics or Osco-Umbrians according to maps bellow...

R1a is also widespread on Crete, Rethymnon has 22.7% of R1a ..Lashiti plateau is highland...thus place where previous inhabitants would move from low lands upon arrival of invaders...Lasithi plateau has 19,5% of R1a while Lashiti province around it has 4,3%... J2 would on Crete would be Mycenean invaders...

thus, R1a is possible legacy of Minoians and Pelasgues... and, probably is dominant in Etruscans followed by J2 and G...

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2008/05/exploring-y-chromosome-haplogroup.html

I do not understand why you place so many maps without references, but this link
http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v15/n4/full/5201769a.html

clearly shows that the cretans have R1b and J2 from Northeast Italy.
This can only come about during the 400Year venetian rule, where they colonised the island with 55000 venetians ( this is 50% of the island populations at the time.) . There was also a period where the Venetians needed more farmers and went to the Morea ( pelopenese ) . The took to crete Illyric/albanian people in the morea called the MANI ( they still exist in greece).

I agree somewhat that R1a might be minoan, but IIRC history, crete was taken over by the sea-people , who some say are the myceneans.

As for your map of Italy, the need is to check on the north Picene who some say are illyians while others claim are the sea-peoples ( myceneanes) who also landed in istria to create the Castellieri culture - ( I doubt this) . A check on the haplogroups for these areas of North picene and Istria seems similar to crete

 

[iapetoc]

now about R1a or R1b

I believe that Driopes could be R1a and myceneans ??? R1b or R1a??

That is the IE branch of Greeks
but before that

1. there was a I-Ydna in Greece mainland
2 J2 arrived by naval (Pelasgians)
3 G2a from east
4 R1a from north (Thracians?)
5 R1b from Hettit? (myceneans?)
6 E-V13 came from Cyprus

the fact is that Greece combines 2 ancinet nations
the Pelasgic and one IE
the IE for me could be R1a more possible than R1b

The ancient Greek is more Germanic and Slavic lingua rooted than Celtic and gaulish

but Homer have words that we can found today in cultures far away from Greece in R1b cultures

that was always my problem,
from where the Greeks took IE language, from Germano-Slavic NORTH
or from Hettit EAST
and although i am G2a could they be the first IE speakers in Greece?
myceneans as example could they be G2a3

for me it is clear that first who dwell were I2
second was the J2 mainly in inslands
3rd came IE most in mainland
4 rth came the E-V13 at copper times, Bronze age from cyprus

HOW YES NO

I connect Pelasgians with J2 mostly for it is domininant or was in areas were Pelasgians settled,
Crete, Pontus, Myssia, Troy, Palaistine, Magna Grecia, south Illyria etc.

E-V13 could be the other solution, but from the sources I read and I use doesn't fit so well
No Not R1a
R1a could be the IE Greeks


now about characteristic of Pelasgians

Funny but BOXING WITH GLOVES WAS INVENTED 000 YEARS BEFORE

Typical Pelasgian characteristics we still find in many Greeks

1 is curly hairs with flat not rounded hair
2 is Big Eyes like cow's eye mostly dark brown almost black but not black-blue
3 is Nose that starts from up the eyes and not under eyes axon and is thin not thick
4 is the colour of skin and hair,

in winter and when not expossed in Sun is white skin and very dark brown almost black hair,
but if summer or much expose to sunlight skin becames very dark-Bronze and hair turn to dark brown even light brown sometimes
probably melamine absorve is high in genotype
the big differences with other Greeks the IE greeks is 2
1 is the nose, the mainland and IE Greeks have curved nose also thin
thick nose from all by observations in statues, drawings etc seems is not Greek either IE or pelasgic
2 hairs are not that curly and flat but mostly straight and little more rounded hair

 

[Hal Fao]

I've found this interesting address: www.etruscan-translation.com

 

[iapetoc]

I've found this interesting address: www.etruscan-translation.com

Well finally i see a site which is not that nationalistic and more Realistic for Albanian language,

I keep my precautions about Ring translation,

I am dissapointed that lucks of many Greek Pelasgian word roots, central of Pelasgian culture,
and mostly connect it only with Albanian, probably the writer must cooperate with Greeks sometime
I will gladly help if i can

I am glad cause such efforts even with few mistakes can be better and help us all,

 

[Hal Fao]

Even I've found another site for the Ring of Ezero: http://thracian-translation.blogspot.com

 

[Taranis]

I've found this interesting address: www.etruscan-translation.com

Sorry, but that does totally not hold up, because it woefully ignores any linguistic methodology. I also find the title on that website disturbingly pumpous and just... wrong:

"Welcome to the real Etruscan - the mother of the European languages."

Otherwise, how yes now, this is a linguistics thread, not a genetics thread.

To get back to topic, I decided to give some examples of Etruscan grammar to visualize how fundamentally different things are from Indo-European languages (examplified by the word "son"):

Etruscan:
Clan (nominative singular - technically also accusative)
Clan-ashi (dative singular)
Clen-ar (nominative plural)
Clen-ar-ashi (dative plural)

Latin:

Filius (nominative singular)
Filio (dative singular)
Filii (nominative plural)
Filiis (dative plural)

Gaulish:

Mapos (nominative singular)
Mapui (dative singular)
Mapoi (nominative plural)
Mapobo (dative plural)

German:
(note that compared to ancient IE languages like Gaulish or Latin, German has a rather boiled-down declension system. Still, it is a better example than English (which has reduced this even further), in particular because German still exhibits rather complex declension of articles:

Der Sohn (nominative singular)
Dem Sohn (dative singular)
Die Söhne (nominative plural)
Den Söhnen (dative plural)

to pick a living agglutinative language, look at this Etruscan/Japanese for comparison:

Etruscan:
Mi ("I")
Mi-ni ("Mine")

Japanese:
Watashi ("I")
Watashi-no ("Mine")

(I'm not arguing that Japanese and Etruscan are related, but they are similar in so far as that they are both accusative-agglutinative languages).

Oh, and one last word on Albanian, similar to the other IE languages I gave above (well, similar to older ones like Latin or Gaulish), Albanian exhibits a very "normal" declension system.

 

[Taranis]

@iapetoc:

Isn't it far more plausible that an Italic loan yielded Etruscan "Thewru", rather than Greek "Therion"?

I mean, cognates of this word are attested in many branches of Indo-European, all with the same meaning of "bull":

Latin "Taurus"
Oscan - "Taurom"
Greek "Tauros"
Gaulish "Tarvos"
Lithuanian "Tauras"
Lusitanian "Taurom"

I mean, I agree that the similarity with the aspiration in Greek definitely exists, but still. I don't quite see how "Therion" would yield "Thewru". That doesn't explain where the "W" comes from. It's more likely that a "U" would yield "W".

I mean, I agree that the base word probably wasn't Gaulish (or generally Celtic - since the Gauls arrived in Italy centuries after the Etruscans), since the -ur- to -ru- change is something found in all Celtic languages. But I think that an Italic or otherwise IE etymology (notice how the Lusitanian and Lithuanian words aren't all that different!) is viable, possibly via some intermediate stage of "Tavru-" or "Tawru-". Also, the Etruscans were known to aspirate other loanwords.

 

[Regulus]

Japanese language was actually hybridized twice. The first time was when the Yayoi people from Korea "invaded" Japan (circa 500 BCE) and brought agriculture, domestication and bronze technology to the Japanese archipelago. The native Jomon people, who were mostly coastal fishermen and gatherers, spoke dialects distantly related to modern Ainu, a language isolate. There is ample evidence that the Yayoi people mixed with the Jomon genetically, and that the Ainu are a subgroup of the Jomon. Considering all the unique words found in Japanese, many of them vaguely resembling Ainu, it is fairly obvious that ancient Japanese was a hybrid of proto-Korean and Jomon languages.

The second hybridization came with the adoption of Chinese words along with the Chinese characters (from the 5th century CE onwards). Just like Korean, approximately half of the modern Japanese vocabulary has Chinese roots. In this sense, both are hybrid Sino-Korean languages, but Japanese has a third element from its native Jomon heritage.

Ok, I was not aware of Japanese going through two periods of hybridization. Thank you.

 

[iapetoc]

@iapetoc:

Isn't it far more plausible that an Italic loan yielded Etruscan "Thewru", rather than Greek "Therion"?

I mean, cognates of this word are attested in many branches of Indo-European, all with the same meaning of "bull":

Latin "Taurus"
Oscan - "Taurom"
Greek "Tauros"
Gaulish "Tarvos"
Lithuanian "Tauras"
Lusitanian "Taurom"

I mean, I agree that the similarity with the aspiration in Greek definitely exists, but still. I don't quite see how "Therion" would yield "Thewru". That doesn't explain where the "W" comes from. It's more likely that a "U" would yield "W".

I mean, I agree that the base word probably wasn't Gaulish (or generally Celtic - since the Gauls arrived in Italy centuries after the Etruscans), since the -ur- to -ru- change is something found in all Celtic languages. But I think that an Italic or otherwise IE etymology (notice how the Lusitanian and Lithuanian words aren't all that different!) is viable, possibly via some intermediate stage of "Tavru-" or "Tawru-". Also, the Etruscans were known to aspirate other loanwords.

I don't know,
But Tayros Tauros Torro etc could be before Greeks, it is wide spread in Mediterrenean.
But Θηρα Θηριον is another word,
A Tauros can be a Therion, but not all Therion are tauros.
now about inspiration Th->t they are both Dental but s in end?
it could all Tavros or Tarvos, but Thewru does not have s so the vowel e instead of a sends to Therion,
yes Etruscans could use t instead of Th, or opposite,
the e not a and the end u or o instead,
it is the vowels that leads me to Therion not Th or T,
the only that could help us is the tone,
like where the mark ' is
Ta ('a)vros Theri ('i)on
so if it is Thewru ('u) sounds vowel and strong sound like Therion
if it is The ('e)wru then probably comes from Tavros

remember that same is with spain,
in far ancient Greek was Esperia, (end of the world, or sunset)
later r->n (-ria and -nia are land ending, toponyms)
by using -nia in Esp'eria becomes Isp'ania (isotones and same time long, both e are short, so a is longer than e, so use i that is shorter than e)

maybe the mark ' could help us both, it is e so surely is not ~
it could be an under βαρεια (vareia) the heavy last vowel (' is down word)
for me as I try to read it sound more isotone with Therio than with Tavros,

about IE origin of Tavros or Bull , i don't know,
maybe both are IE, but maybe one is not,
Tavros was used by Cretans (ταυροκαθαψεια)
while bull (βολινθος - βολος) by mainland Greeks,
both words Bull and Tavros are common in IE languages,
But exept Lithuania is more spread in Mediterrenean the Tavros
while central and north europe uses bull, Vik etc.

as i read i put (') in last u.
so simmilarity of Th and e and u->o drives me to Therio, perhaps you are right and maybe I have to apologise if (') is in e

u <-> o is known Greek Nikola (o)s Latin Nikola (u) s etc
Romus Ρωμος,
Julius Ιουλιος

 

[zanipolo]

Oh, and one last word on Albanian, similar to the other IE languages I gave above (well, similar to older ones like Latin or Gaulish), Albanian exhibits a very "normal" declension system.

Isn't it better to not mix albanian ( a middle ages language) with the other ancient languages. I feel it would be better if we used the thraco-illyric language instead of albanian

 

[Hal Fao]

"Ther" in Albanian means "cut down". I've seen an etruscan picture which showed a butcher with a knife in his hand and some meat on the table. There was an inscription below the picture "Θar kaun". In Albanian "ther kaun" means "to cut down the bull".

 

[Hal Fao]

zanipolo, there are topics of Veneti...and you can also open new ones...let's not spam here....
btw. I expect reference for what you claim above...because according to story written down by Strabo Veneti were most notable of all Paphlagonians, now you claim they were not Paphlagonians...and you also insert Illyria whereas in Strabo's story Illyria is not mentioned and Veneti moved to Thrace and than to Adriatic... regarding you thinking that Venethi and Veneti are different tribal names, I am pretty convinced that it is same tribal name...it is another question what were the circumstances that led to those people having same tribal name... was it same genetic origin or not... I think it was.. R1a + I2a2...


now, back to Etruscans

father= apa
mother =ati
wife = puia
brother = ruva

http://books.google.nl/books?id=VWG...g=PA58#v=onepage&q=venetic vocabulary&f=false


fire = uerse
god(s) = aisar
monkey = arimos
king = lucumo
freedman = lautni
son = clan
daughter = sech
grandson = nefts, papals
grandfather = papa
grandmother = teta
children = husiur
parents/ancestors = ateri
dictator = purth
mirror = malena
June = aclus
I = mi
me = mini
you = un
for you = une
who/which = ipa
whoever = ipe ipa
stranger,client, slave = etera
bellow = hinth
gold = zamathi
city = spura
image = sren
year = avil
month = tiur
at first = thuni
again = etnam
now = thui
here = thui
until = epl, pul
also = etnam
writing/book = zich



Aristotle claims that Etruscans and Carthaginians are so close that they almost make one people....
http://books.google.nl/books?id=VWG...g=PA68#v=onepage&q=venetic vocabulary&f=false
On Greek island of Lemnos there are inscriptions from 6th century similar to Etruscan ones both in alphabet and vocabulary...
http://books.google.nl/books?id=VWG...g=PA61#v=onepage&q=venetic vocabulary&f=false

Lemnos is close to Lydia, Carthaginians or Phoenicans origin from southeast of Asia minor... thus languages/culture similar to Etruscan also origin from south of Asia minor...

Let'see who lived on Lemnos

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemnos


now, if the Albanian interpretation of inscriptionfro the start of the thread is correct, that would mean that the languages are practically the same... thus, most of the words bellow should exist in albanian as well.. I will add next to it serbo-croat and greek words...words are taken from google translate... so native Albanian and Greek speakers should react if they see etruscan word that has cognjate in their languages...

english - etruscan - albanian - greek - serbo-croat
father= apa = baba, ate = patéras = otac, tata
mother =ati = nënë, mëmë, burim = mi̱téra = majka, mama, mater, mati
wife = puia = grua,bashkëshorte, shoqe = gynaíka = žena, supruga
brother = ruva = vëlla, shok = adelfós = brat

fire = uerse = zjarr, pasion, fugë, ethe =pyrkagiás = vatra
god(s) = aisar = perëndi= theoí = bog/bogovi
monkey = arimos = majmun, çamarrok = maïmoú = majmun
king = lucumo = mbret, car = vasiliás = kralj, car
freeman = lautni = njeri i lirë, qytetar = eléf̱theros = slobodan
son = clan = e saj = tou = sin
daughter = sech = bijë, vajzë = kóri̱= (k)ćerka, kći
grandson = nefts, papals = nip = engonós = unuk
grandfather = papa = gjysh, stërgjysh, babagjysh = pappoús = deda
grandmother = teta = gjyshe = giagiá = baba, baka (teta = older woman, aunt)
children = husiur = fëmijëve = paidiá = deca
parents/ancestors = ateri = prindërit/paraardhësit = goneís/Oi prógonoí = roditelji/ preci, oci
dictator = purth = diktator = diktátoras = diktator
mirror = malena = pasqyrë, shembull = kathrépti̱s = ogledalo
who/which = ipa = ke, cili, kush = o opoíos, i̱ opoía = ko, koga
whoever = ipe ipa = kush = opoiosdí̱pote = kogod (however = ipak)
stranger/client/slave = etera = i huaj, i panjohuri/klient, blerës, myshteri/rob, skllav = xénos / peláti̱s /doúlos = stranac / klijent, mušterija / rob
bellow = hinth = më poshtë, pallje = parakáto̱ = ispod
gold = zamathi = ar, flori = chrysós = zlato
city = spura = qytet = póli̱ =grad
image = sren = imazh, figurë, shëmbëlltyrë = Eikóna = slika
year = avil = vit, vjet = étos = godina
month = tiur = muaj = mí̱na = mesec
again = etnam =përsëri, sërish, prapë= kai páli = opet
now = thui = tani, tash = tó̱ra = sad
here = thui = këtu = edó̱ = ovde, tu, tuj
until = epl, pul = deri, gjer = méchri = do
also = etnam = gjithashtu, edhe = Epísi̱s = takodje, isto
writing/book = zich = shkrim, shënim, gramë/ libër, blok = graptó̱s/vivlío = pisanje/knjiga

to conclude, it is obvious that neither of the languages above has much to do with Etruscan... considering this, the idea that the etruscan text above has direct meaning in Albanian as proposed by some albanian scientist is not likely at all.. same text is by people studying Etruscan considered to have completely different meaning (legal contract and not story about a ghost in a cave)...

Not to forget that the "official" Etruscan vocabolary is based on Rough Translations. It's a fact that should be considered.
On the other hand, the author of the site www.etruscan-translation.com as I see, pretends for a real translation.
Inspite of some few mistakes, his translation fits with Albanian. That's a fact that should be seriously considered too.
A few days ago iapetoc said there are many words of the text, similar with the words of Homeric language. He can help us a lot on identifying these words.

 

[Taranis]

"Ther" in Albanian means "cut down". I've seen an etruscan picture which showed a butcher with a knife in his hand and some meat on the table. There was an inscription below the picture "Θar kaun". In Albanian "ther kaun" means "to cut down the bull".

Not to forget that the "official" Etruscan vocabolary is based on Rough Translations. It's a fact that should be considered.
On the other hand, the author of the site www.etruscan-translation.com as I see, pretends for a real translation.
Inspite of some few mistakes, his translation fits with Albanian. That's a fact that should be seriously considered too.
A few days ago iapetoc said there are many words of the text, similar with the words of Homeric language. He can help us a lot on identifying these words.

Sorry, nope. No. Linguistics just do not work that way. There's absolutely nothing Etruscan about the Albanian language.

For one, Albanian numerals are readily visible to be Indo-European in origin (in accordance with Albanian sound laws), whereas Etruscan numerals were clearly non-IE.

One - Një (Lat. unus, Greek èna)
Two - Dy (Lat. duo, Greek dúo)
Three - Tre (Lat. tres)
Four - Katër (Lat. quattuor)
Five - Pesë (Greek pente)
Six - Gjashtë
Seven - Shtatë (Lat. septem)
Eight - Tetë
Nine - Nëntë (Lat. novem, Greek ennéa)
Ten - Dhjetë (Lat. decem, Greek deka)

This "Real Etruscan" is nothing but a fabrication.

Furthermore, as mentioned, Etruscan doesn't distinguish between voiced/unvoiced stop consonants, whereas Albanian does. How are these conditioned? If you cannot answer that, and cannot demonstrate how, with regularity, Albanian words are yielded from Etruscan ones, your similarity is most probably just coincidential.

EDIT: Here I explained the criticality of sound laws.

 

[zanipolo]

this link might be of some use

http://www.seansgallery.com/pages/h_alphabets.htm

 

[Taranis]

this link might be of some use

http://www.seansgallery.com/pages/h_alphabets.htm

Fascinating site, thanks for sharing that. :grin:

I must add though, with the Iberian scripts, things are a tad more complicated. There exist several varieties of the Northeastern scripts, specifically a "simple" variant that doesn't distinguish between voiced and unvoiced stop consonants, and "advanced" variants that verymuch distinguish so - but only between "G/K" and "D/T", because neither the Iberian nor the Celtiberian language had the phoneme "P" in their language.

With the Southeastern Iberian Scripts, letters are very close to the Tartessian script (which is even older, and from which the Iberians derived their writing systems), but like the northern scripts, it is a full Semi-syllabary, whereas the Tartessian script was more like a redundant alphabet (coincidentially similar to the Old Persian Cuneiform, which is also on that website).

 

[spongetaro]