Illyria

kamani said:
I was very surprised too when I discovered this. I get it from my own counts of y-dna of Albanians. They're exactly 15% I2a2b, like the published studies vaguely confirm by just saying I2a. Not a single one of them was I2a1-Dinaric.
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It's odd; if studies found I2-L38, I'd think they'd be more likely to call it "I2b" or "I2b2"... not many studies, even now, use up-to-date ISOGG nomenclature. I don't know any study of Albanians that does that.

Rootsi 2004 is the study that addresses the question most directly, as far as I can tell. They sampled 106 Albanians. Using their nomenclature, I2a-Din should fall under their "I1b* P37" label, and I2-L38 should fall under their "I* M170" label. For Albanians, they give 17% under "I1b* P37" and 0% under "I* M170." That contradicts you pretty directly.

That doesn't necessarily mean that Rootsi found a bunch of I2a-Din, but they definitely tested P37, and what else is that likely to be?
 
I hate that studies never mention what clade of R1b is found amongst Albanians. Since there are few, myself included, I would guess the majority are R1b1a2a1 R-L23/L150.
 
sparkey said:
Rootsi 2004 is the study that addresses the question most directly, as far as I can tell. They sampled 106 Albanians. Using their nomenclature, I2a-Din should fall under their "I1b* P37" label, and I2-L38 should fall under their "I* M170" label. For Albanians, they give 17% under "I1b* P37" and 0% under "I* M170." That contradicts you pretty directly.
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I'm not sure that in Rootsi 2004, I2a2b would fall under M170, but I can see the 17% under P37..
Some explanations could be:
1. for Albanians that is the the Sardinian or the British clade.
2. Rootsi bs-ed to fit his conclusions and did not do deep clade testing in Albania. Because it's such an odd twist, he did no expect what I am saying to happen.
3. Rootsi also put I2a2b under P37, back in 2004.

I have just collected data about a few Albanians (~70) who have done dna testing with companies like 23AndMe and such, so by I2a2b I mean whatever 23AndMe means by I2a2b. Their haplogroup percentages are suprisingly close to the published papers so far, with the further specification I2a->I2a2b. I can also publish the R1b percentage breakdowns if anyone is interested.
 
Luan said:
I hate that studies never mention what clade of R1b is found amongst Albanians. Since there are few, myself included, I would guess the majority are R1b1a2a1 R-L23/L150.
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Go to R1b.org and you can read about R-L23 being discussed, latest I read is if its eastern balkans ( moldovian ) or anatolian
 
Bosniak said:
So.. what conclusions can we draw from that study? According to that presentation the tribes Autariatae and Delmatae are mostly of I1b genetic. Is it correct to say that the Bosnians and Dalmatians are the descedents of those tribes?
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This below is the paper work for post 217
http://www.anthroinsula.org/resources/Iliri-english text version.pdf

the conclusion is there.

Its based on Starkey rooti 2004 and many other paper ( see references in the link )

results are gathered using SNP, STR and FST and other methods.


Note: I could only find an abstract version(y)
 
kamani said:
I see your point, thanks. What do you think is the chance that for Albania it is I2a-Disles? (I don't know much about its spread)
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Probably low. I've seen samples in places like Germany, so it's probably not exclusive to Britain, but I don't know of any significant presence in the Balkans.
 
So many people have so many opinions. The only reason you guys know about illyria is because greek and roman writers decided to write about them. But they also wrote that rome went to war with illyria, there were 3 wars actually between rome and illyria, the last war ended in 168BC with rome conquering illyria. After that the illyrians were romanised. Their language was lost and their culture too. They began speakin vulgar latin, because thats what their conquerors were speaking at that time. Like I said illyrian language was lost, and since they didn't write their language, they left no record. We don't know what their language was like. But what we do know is that they were romanised and began speaking vulgar latin. If you want to find the descendants of illyrians today, they will have to be romance speakers in the balkans. The only people i know in the balkans that speak latin derived language are the vlachs of greece, albania, macedonia and a few other countries. Based on linguistic grounds, these are the only people who can claim descent from illyrians
 
vetus said:
So many people have so many opinions. The only reason you guys know about illyria is because greek and roman writers decided to write about them. But they also wrote that rome went to war with illyria, there were 3 wars actually between rome and illyria, the last war ended in 168BC with rome conquering illyria. After that the illyrians were romanised. Their language was lost and their culture too. They began speakin vulgar latin, because thats what their conquerors were speaking at that time. Like I said illyrian language was lost, and since they didn't write their language, they left no record. We don't know what their language was like. But what we do know is that they were romanised and began speaking vulgar latin. If you want to find the descendants of illyrians today, they will have to be romance speakers in the balkans. The only people i know in the balkans that speak latin derived language are the vlachs of greece, albania, macedonia and a few other countries. Based on linguistic grounds, these are the only people who can claim descent from illyrians
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Exact bro!
But according to slavs the illyrian speak a slavs language and they have never been latinized.
 
"Paternal genetic heritage was studied on DNA from 1,141 individuals analyzed for Y chromosome markers (data from the Institute for Anthropological Research, Zagreb, Croatia and from the published sources) (Barač et al., 2003; Rootsi et al., 2004; Peričić et al., 2005a, 2005b). The individuals were from the continental parts of the Balkan peninsula, the north-west Adriatic and the south-east Alpine areas as well as from the Eastern Adriatic islands, i.e. the areas where the different Illyrian trybes settled during the Iron Age period. The sample was analyzed for Y chromosomal haplogroup frequencies in 9 populations and classified as I1a, I1b*-P37, R1a-SRY1532, R1b-M173, E3b1-M78 and J2e1 haplogroups."
Language Bounderies and Microevolutionary processes in South-Eastern Europe.
http://www.anthroinsula.org/resource... version.pdf
 
Bosniak said:
So.. what conclusions can we draw from that study? According to that presentation the tribes Autariatae and Delmatae are mostly of I1b genetic. Is it correct to say that the Bosnians and Dalmatians are the descedents of those tribes?
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And Serbs too. Maciamo gave very good figures:
I2a
Bosnia and Herzegovina: 55,5% (about 1.100.000 males)
Serbia: 33% (about 1.200.000 males)
Croatia: 37% (about 810.000 males)

I have discussed a lot about it with Albanians. South Illyrian tribes are E-V13, which is dominant haplogroup of Geg Albanians. But another Illyrian tribes are mostly I2a, R1a etc. Otherwise Geg Albanians from all the people of the Balkans have the lowest percent of I2a.

Some Albanian and another sources claim that word Illyr/Illyrian derives from Hamitic, precisely Cushitic word il, ila, ili=eye, of which can be derived light, star etc. It has logic because haplogroup E-V13 originaly comes from Africa (subclade of haplogroup E-M81 from Egypt)

However, my opinion is that word Illyr/Illyrian can derive from South Slavic: Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian word: ilo, ila = loam.

Loam is type of soil consisting of sand, silt and clay. Loam is a suitable soil for serpents. In Serbs/Slavic/Dinaric people was strong cult of serpent. Serpent is related with female goddess. Also, loam is Good material for pottery and construction of houses (it is the famous indigenous Illyrian pottery).
 
Now slavs are illyrians..this is absurd....I2a tipic slavic is not illyrian open 1 map and you can see...only slavs..
 
And now illyrian language is slavic ...and what is Bardhylis in slavic ? Patetic..
 
Illyrians were NOT Slavs BUT none the less there is 15-25% R1a ! I would estimate all across the Balkans.
 
There is some Slav presence surely that spilled down there
 
I have a question, I am 23 year old master student, Albanian (from Todays Macedonia) living in Switzerland. What is now the point? Do greeks accept us as illyrians or not? And let away pls the Epirus theory. And also i know Illyria made have been called a lot of people which probably werent all the same (typical far northern people)

I am new to this forum, and the Genetics similarities of greeks and albanians made me curious?
Is E-V13 old in Balkans? Pls give me a number in years.
Is J2 old in balkans?

with a lot of respect to all the people here, no matter if albanian, greek, serbs, croatian, bosnians, bulgarians, etc.

bardhyl matoshi
 
Bardhyl said:
I have a question, I am 23 year old master student, Albanian (from Todays Macedonia) living in Switzerland. What is now the point? Do greeks accept us as illyrians or not? And let away pls the Epirus theory. And also i know Illyria made have been called a lot of people which probably werent all the same (typical far northern people)

I am new to this forum, and the Genetics similarities of greeks and albanians made me curious?
Is E-V13 old in Balkans? Pls give me a number in years.
Is J2 old in balkans?

with a lot of respect to all the people here, no matter if albanian, greek, serbs, croatian, bosnians, bulgarians, etc.

bardhyl matoshi
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Wrong place for scientific ideas Bardhyl! Internet is a more versetile place. "Google" Illyria and a lot of information will pop up.
 
albanopolis said:
Wrong place for scientific ideas Bardhyl! Internet is a more versetile place. "Google" Illyria and a lot of information will pop up.
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I have collected a lot of historical information trust me, but i am new to this genetics thing and was asking about the similarities of albanians to greeks and also to illyrians? Yllirians?


with respect


bardhyl
 
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