Religion Is Christianity really a monotheistic Faith?

Mycernius

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The question came up in the thread On the conservative Catholic Church and Maciamon raised an interesting question whether the Catholic Church can really call itself a monothestic religion. The comment about it also came up a few years ago when I was talking to a Muslim friend of mine, that did question if Christianity is really monotheistic at all. The question lies in the Trinity. Christians believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Each is separate, but one of the same. Yet in some churches the item of worship is Jesus as the Son of God, To me that seems to indicate a seperate diety to God. It is found even more in Catholism. The Virgin Mary seems to have been raised into worship because she bore Jesus. she was mortal and possessed no Godlike powers, but she has been raised up to alomost divinity status. Then there are the saints. In some cases worshipped almost as seperate divinities themselves. It maybe a hold over from Roman practice of making Emperors Gods. As the early catholic church spread out into the old Roman empire it picked up old Roman ways and adapted them to their belief system.
Points of view always welcome. :crab:
 
Mycernius,
I totally agree about the Catholic church. I hope my comments don't sound like bashing, but, aside from the very basic doctrines (ie, death, burial, resurrection of Jesus), much of Catholism seems very pagan to me too. I know historically there was some "mixing" of pagan practices to "draw in" new converts by the church...calling the celebration of the resurrection "Easter" for example.

And you know, seems like every atheist I've ever met was a Catholic growing up. What on earth did they do to you all?????????????????
 
I was under the impression that Catholics honor Mary and the saints as holy men and women, without actually worshipping them as deities.

Pararousia said:
much of Catholism seems very pagan to me too. I know historically there was some "mixing" of pagan practices to "draw in" new converts by the church...calling the celebration of the resurrection "Easter" for example.

True, true... :)

And you know, seems like every atheist I've ever met was a Catholic growing up. What on earth did they do to you all?????????????????

All or nothing............... :? :lol:
 
I think if is the case that Mary is viewed as a saint in the Catholic church, but in any organization of hundreds of millions of people there will be some who have some views that are hard to understand how they developed.

Christianity is monotheistic with one God, but that one God seems to have more complexity than I claim to understand. Some people call that complexity the "Trinity," representing three "personalities" of God in one God. Jesus said He and God the Father are one.

I believe the true nature of God is a great mystery. His desire for people to accept Him and to accept the sacrifice of Jesus Christ for their salvation is not a mystery.
 
Flatly said, the notion of Trinity finds only scanty support in the bible itself, only indirectly suggested in the closing of The 2nd Letter to the Corinthians, 13-13, "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all."

Strictly taken word for word, Chritianity WITH the Trinity doctrine departs from the core belief of Monotheos of the Shema Israel, "Hear, O Israel; YHWH is our God, YHWH alone !" Since the destruction of the two sacred places of worship, esp. the destruction of the Temple of Jerusalem prior to Babylonian captivity (597-537 BCE; earliest dates), Post-exilic Judaism before Chritianity naturally anticipated the expansion on the concept of the nationalist monotheos, which by then had been historically and theologically disputed by the destruction of the two Isrealite kingdoms of Israel (722 BCE) and Judah (587 BCE), and the subsequent Babylonization, Persification, and esp. Helenisation during the Macedonian rule by Alexander (333-323 BCE), the Ptolemies (323-198 BCE), and the Seleucids (198-166 BCE).

The nationalist uprising of Judah Maccabeus against the 'evil' Helenist puppets, and the establishment of the Hasmonean dynasty (166-63 BCE) breathed life back into the idea of a living, interacting God, but also gave rise to dissenting theological factions as the Sadduccees, the Pharisees, the Essenes, the Zealots, the Ebionites, Samaritans (Samaritan), the Nazirites (cf. Nazarenes), and others, some of whom believed in the emergence of a new kind of kingship directly anointed by God himself (a christ, a messiah) and the direct rule by a universal (catholic, generic), guiding breath of God himself (a Holy Spirit).

There seems to be no expectation of a motherly goddess figure as Ancient Hebraism seems to have already distanced itself from the mother-of-all creator, the feminine, life-giving deity and agricultural fertility symbolism which only later found its way into the minds of early Christians in Asia Minor and the vicinity. The dying and resurrecting deity of son-Adonis and the life giving earth Goddess of mother-Demeter, according to some scholars of religion, are reflected in the dying & resurrecting Christ figure and Mary the mother of Christ figure.

As for there being so many former Catholics becoming atheists, could we also say the Catholic Church has been giving them a good kick-start in logic, history, language, and critical thinking ? Nothing to diss Catholics for at all. En arche en ho logos: In the beginning was the word. Education is nothing to be wasted, whether theist or non-theist. :p

To be really picky with words, Judaism/Chritianity/Islam come in 4 varieties.
1) monotheism
2) dualism
3) tritheism: the Trinity
4) quadritheism: the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, and Mother Mary
 
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Just adding my tidbit. According to one source (I forgot the source now), the Trinity, as one but three parts, was an attempt to keep people from thinking they could actually understand God, it was an attempt to keep the idea of God mysterious, and unfathomable.

The same idea makes it way into Islam, where people weren't allowed to even attempt to put Allah in their art. That would be to put a human concept to something vastly greater than what humans could ever hope to conceptualize.
 
No offennse, but I'm still don't sure about what
the trinity is all about. :?
I'm not christian and sometimes wonder,like,"How could christian have to
worship 3 gods?"
If the Holy Maria, Jesus and God himself are separated (I mean, if Jesus is not God himself)
and Maria+Jesus were "created" by God (they are prophet,and human,,,) why would the christian not just
worship god (straight to the point! Worship the creator of all mankind and the entire universe!) ?
Why christian must "pledge" to another human (even Jesus was a prophet and Holy
Maria born him) ??

I can't ask my christian friends about this, since they're just a kid,,,like me.
:p


(I apologize if my words are hurting some people here,,,I don't mean to,,,)
 
The Trinity is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. They are three but one. St. Patrick explained this with the clover analogy, showing the stem as being one, but dividing into three leaves.

It was a theology developed later, and the idea was probably to keep people wondering about God, to keep them in awe of his mysteriousness.
 
My friend Grace (a Christian) says that the Holy Spirit is female. Another Christian in the office was horrified at the thought. What do you guys think?
 
Buntaro said:
No, Christianity is not monotheistic. Adam and Eve were created by gods (plural). The Bible is very clear about this.

http://www3.igalaxy.net/~nick/theosophy/lessons04.htm#creation
You must be referring to the passage with plural self-reference by YHWH, "Let US make man in OUR image." Although the book of Genesis as part of the Pentateuch could be as old as Moses, it has also been argued that a significant part of Genesis was finalised during and after the Babylonian captivity. The period can be characterised by colonial influences by the Assyrian and Neo-Babylonian cultures as well as nationalistic purism of the Judaic nation, both of which can only alter the final text version and our perceptions of the tradition portrayed in the Genesis text in varied ways.

In at least one way, your characterisation of Judaism as having polytheistic elements is true. However, the Reformation of King Joshiah of the Kingdom of Judah is noted for strong monotheism. Hence a non-historical characterisation is bound to be dogmatic; what we need more is a diachronic approach in seeing Judaism as a religion growing within each historical setting that its believers were given choices, sometimes freer, sometimes not, among what was available to them.

Sigmund Freud, in Moses and Monotheism, 1939, presented an interesting theory of attributing the origin of monotheism to the King Akhnaton of Egypt, suggesting that the idea was transmitted to the Hebrews in Egypt during the colonial rule by the Hyksos of Egypt, to which the Hebrews were supposed to have been collaborators in the short-lived Colonial Egypt.
 
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Pararousia said:
And you know, seems like every atheist I've ever met was a Catholic growing up. What on earth did they do to you all?????????????????
Did nothing to me. Just to let you know I was baptised as C of E, so strictly speaking I'm Anglican. Not a really religious family, so I was never pressured to attend church or to believe. My parents let me find my own way.
 
Christianity is monotheistic with one God, but that one God seems to have more complexity than I claim to understand. Some people call that complexity the "Trinity," representing three "personalities" of God in one God. Jesus said He and God the Father are one.

Not all Christian disciplines are mono-theistic (though the largest and best known of the churches are) - the church of which I am a pastor is heno-theistic.
Trinity is easy enough to get a grasp on - man is also a triune entity...body, soul, spirit. (or if you are not inclined to believe in those terms, Freud's "id, ego, superego" divisions serve just as well.)

I know historically there was some "mixing" of pagan practices to "draw in" new converts by the church...calling the celebration of the resurrection "Easter" for example.
It would seem highly unlikely that the Church of Rome would use a Western European tide (season) to draw in converts. While "Easter" is the name used in the English speaking world, that name is not used in Constantinople or Rome. Easter just happened to be the season that coincides with the memorial time for the death and resurrection of the Christ.
 
Then there are the saints. In some cases worshipped almost as seperate divinities themselves. It maybe a hold over from Roman practice of making Emperors Gods. As the early catholic church spread out into the old Roman empire it picked up old Roman ways and adapted them to their belief system.

In essence, correct. "Saints" as understood by the Rome and Constantinople disciplines are a hang-over from an earlier time than the empire though, pre-dating the Republic of Rome even. Ancestor worship of those times was more or less converted to patriarch worship in the later years of the Roman Empire. The base is much the same as in the Shinto forms of ancestor worship.
 
My friend Grace (a Christian) says that the Holy Spirit is female. Another Christian in the office was horrified at the thought. What do you guys think?
Your horrified friend was right to be horrified - The Koine Greek scriptures denote the Holy Spirit as unequivocably male.
 
Kaminari said:
Your horrified friend was right to be horrified - The Koine Greek scriptures denote the Holy Spirit as unequivocably male.
But some traditions draw a parallel between the Holy Spirit and Sophia, the spirit of wisdom, for example here.
 
When the Judeo-Christian religion first began, it was in fact a henotheistic religion. Henotheism means that there are other gods and goddesses in the universe, but there is only one true god that you should worship and no other. It was not until the later writers such as the Deuteronomist or the Priestly writer that it later changed into monotheism. As for the Holy Trinity, it was really just a way for the Catholic Church to explain who Jesus was. You see Jesus never founded Christianity, nor was he trying to. Jesus was a piest Jew who knew his prophets and the Old Testament, so for any of you people that think that the prophets of the Old Testament were prophesizing Jesus' birth, you're dead wrong. Anyway getting back on topic, it was Jesus' followers who later founded Christianity, and for later generations (300 years to be exact) they could not figure out who Jesus was.

Jesus was an oral prophet, not a written one unfortunately. Paul was the only one who had written accounts of Jesus, but even those are questionable. During the Council of Meincea (can?ft remember the exact spelling), there was an argument on who Jesus really was; was he the Holy Trinity, or was he three separate beings? They ended up choosing the Holy Trinity because it was simpler for the common people to understand. This could also spin off on how the Catholic Church started organizing Christianity for money and power, but that conspiracy talk is for another thread.

Doc :wave:
 
Doc, are you saying He was a Levitte?
 
I'm sorry but I'm not native to that word. :sorry:
Could you please explain what you mean by that term? :clueless:

Doc :wave:
 

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