Is haplogroups I linked to the highest body height ?

[Taranis]

I said "Scandinavians" not North Europeans. Scandinavia is a very specific region. You just trying to find flaws when there are none. You are probably a PC-obsessed ultra liberal.

Please, there is no reason for insulting.

 

[Yetos]

Haplogroup E has huger penises than haplogroup I!

[Sorry I couldn't resist! :grin:]

in case you find it funny,

go and ask a barber or hairdresser etc,

Asian have circular hair
North Europeans almost circle
south Europeans have eclipse
while in parts the hair is almost a flat eclipse,

this is not HG science but statistic result which i saw in tv years before,
and it is true,

I dont know in your areas, but there are many areas where 1 village dwells don't even look like next village, although few kilometers,

if you ever visit Balkans you may not seen differences, but some people can guess your origin at 50% by some such characteristics,

just remember



and them



the difference is obvious

just look andre's neck

 

[Templar]

Haha its not really a real insult. And I did have a point. Many people jump at the opportunity to point out a problem/flaw/mistake due to their biased thinking. One should pursue only the truth and knowledge, and nothing else.

 

[Mzungu mchagga]

I said "Scandinavians" not North Europeans. Scandinavia is a very specific region. You just trying to find flaws when there are none.

I actually used Scandinavians and North Europeans in this case as a synonyme.

You are probably a PC-obsessed ultra liberal.

Oh wow, did my originally intended joke tear my insides that wide open? Congratulations!

 

[Templar]

I actually used Scandinavians and North Europeans in this case as a synonyme.

Well, they are NOT synonymous, Scandinavia just ONE part of Northern Europe. Northern Europe also includes the Baltic countries and the Great Isles.

Oh wow, did my originally intended joke tear my insides that wide open? Congratulations!

Extremism of any kind is detrimental to progress and truth. Only the balanced and middle way leads to the advancement of mankind. In the ancient world this was widely known among the wise; in both the West (Aristotle's Golden Mean) and East (Confucius's Doctrine of the Mean). An extreme liberal is just as bad as an extreme conservative.

 

[sparkey]

I'll refer back to my map of Paleolithic Remnants. The major migrations after that map are (in temporal order):

(1) I2a1a along the Mediterranean and into Sardinia
(2) I2a2a-Cont/Roots/Cont3[I2a2a2] throughout the Northern area and into the Southeastern area of the Continent (also later dispersal with Germanic and other migrations)
(3) I2a2b dispersal in Central Europe, probably expanded later mostly with Celtic migrations (unclear)
(4) I1 into Scandinavia and later dispersal with Germanic migrations
(5) I2a1b1a into the Balkans

The other remnants like I2c and the I2a local to the British Isles may also have descendants that contributed significantly autosomally to modern Europeans, but remained thinly spread and/or stationary.

A working assumption that I've had is that, in general, Y-DNA magnifies the effect of migration, so to look for the autosomal contribution of populations that carry a certain Y-DNA haplogroup, we need to balance their contribution more in favor of their origin and less in favor of where they spread later when looking at their modern frequency distribution.

In this case, it looks like the old I1 population were indeed tall, but after that, the correlation begins to fall off somewhat. There is a good chance that the I2a1b1a people brought their tall stature to the Balkans region, which was canceled out to some degree in their point of origin by the migrations of others, as Y-DNA frequency tells us, but we should look at this potential correlation with a sense of skepticism due to the effect I describe above.

There is no obvious correlation with tallness and migration (1) at all. (2) is possible, but (3) is unlikely. Something that may save this theory is that all the branches 1-5 are distant enough that (2), (4), and (5) could have evolved tallness independently while (1) and (3) did not need to. It's probably not a coincidence that the likely starting locations or previous branching locations of (2), (4), and (5) are more northerly than those of (1) and (3).

It's also important to keep in mind that tallness is linked to not only genetics, but also diet, as evidenced by the fact that South Koreans are, on average, taller than North Koreans. I don't know how much this would influence variation within Europe.

 

[Mzungu mchagga]

I don't know if I recall it correctly, but wasn't I1 in Scandinavia more of a bottle-neck haplogroup that spread with the autosomal genes of more recent migrants? If yes, I don't think that the original I1 people should have contributed much to Scandinavian autosomal genes. Or I mean, it is rather unlikely (though not completely impossible) that tallness derives from I people. Probably similiar in the Balkans.

 

[sparkey]

I don't know if I recall it correctly, but wasn't I1 in Scandinavia more of a bottle-neck haplogroup that spread with the autosomal genes of more recent migrants? If yes, I don't think that the original I1 people should have contributed much to Scandinavian autosomal genes. Or I mean, it is rather unlikely (though not completely impossible) that tallness derives from I people. Probably similiar in the Balkans.

Basically all of the Haplogroup I remnants were bottlenecked severely, with I1 being one of them, yes. But there's no reason to assume that because I1 bottlenecked, its autosomal contribution is small... it could be that the I1 MRCA guy, and all his close cousins who contributed their autosomal DNA but not their Y-DNA, make up a good portion of the genetics of modern Scandinavians. The R1a of Corded Ware culture, which I'll grant could have contributed more autosomally than I1 to modern Scandinavians, has a poorer correlation with tallness.

 

[Knovas]

Good posts sparkey, that's what I think happens between ethnic Iberians (excluding Basques and closer people). I2a1a does not show high presence anywhere, except in Aragón. But surely in autosomal DNA is the greatest contribution.

In Sardinia for example, although there's a very significant presence of this haplogroup, we cannot say the same. The high Southeastern seems to confirm it's much more recent than in Iberia, and that other haplogroups had also an important impact there, being I2a1a diluted more than one can expect while checking the huge percent in the distribution.

 

[Templar]

The pattern that I've noticed is:

J/E/G- short, gracile, creative and innovative, elongated head, dark hair/eyes
R1a/b- short,robust/strong, short, hard-working, round-headed, light hair/eyes.
I- tall, robust/strong, creative and innovative, elongated head

Though this only applies if the person is overwhelmingly composed of one of one of the HPs. Germanic people for example are a mix between I and R1b (also R1a), and therefore are both tall and have fair eyes/hair.

 

[Ivan]

I usually don't fall for this threads since its all about who is stronger competition, less dark, and European looking.

There is a valuable reasoning in this kind of research, but I think yours is a bit more colored.

I think you have misconception about others peoples strengths and capabilities, and I see you are little bit obsessed with yourself.

Every physical appearance has its strengths and weaknesses, considering how meaningful and useful is it in the real world.

In General I would agree with the height issue, but just in general.

Here I will take your approach to this issue to offer a little bit more of flavor in this subject.

J, E, and is can be extremely tall and of medium hight, more slender, muscular, and some types in ME are gentler. Their physical appearance has connection to overall strength endurance and agility. Also E is high in Montenegrins one of the highest people in the world.

G is just as J and E agile, muscular, slender, medium height or tall.
But there are also extremely strong people among these and quite a number of them.
N.Ossetians are prominent carriers of G. There is just 720.000 of them. Amateur wrestling is sport #1 for Ossetians.
At the XXIX Olympic Games in Beijing Ossetian sportsmen won two gold, three silver, and four bronze medals.

The performance of Ossetian sportsmen was quite good. However, the results from the 2004 Olympic Games were much better: four gold, two silver and one bronze medals. Twenty Ossetian sportsmen performed at the 2008 Olympics and won medals for Russia, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan and Slovakia.

Enaldiev Aslanbek
(1948)

Distinguished weightlifter and armwrestler (heavy weight).
Honored Sport Master of Russia.
Honored Trainer of Russia.
http://ossetians.com/eng/news.php?newsid=195

http://ossetians.com/eng/index.php?showcat=jump&f=22
http://http://ossetians.com/eng/index.php?showcat=jump&f=23
http://ossetians.com/eng/index.php?showcat=jump&f=24
http://ossetians.com/eng/index.php?showcat=jump&f=25
http://ossetians.com/eng/news.php?newsid=552

 

[Templar]

Well actually it was a mistake to list G, since I don't really know much about them.

Regarding this though:

Also E is high in Montenegrins one of the highest people in the world.

In Albania, the northerners are far more autosomally I than E, and they are as tall as any Yugoslav people. The southern Albanians on the other hand are short and have the highest rate of E in all of Europe. Based on this, it is easy to conclude that Haplogroup E correlates with shortness (relative to European standards).

 

[Ivan]

Actually, you din not make a mistake considering an overall slenderness.

When people are slender it is hard to notice their muscle structure. These cultures valued agility, speed, explosiveness, and horsemanship. For them, a slender man was more capable and agile in horse mounted battles. They also practiced restraint in all things as well with food. There were no obese men in Circassia and Ossetia to be seen in the past.

Circassians were more tall then medium, while Ossetians were probably more medium than tall.

If E is short, it seems that it did not make any influence in Montenegro.

 

[Templar]

It might also be that most of the E composition comes from the Albanian population living in Montenegro (they are like 10% of Montenegro's population).

 

[MOESAN]

There is some kind of correlation between height and haplogroup I. The tallest people in Europe are mostly Germanic (+ Finland and Baltic), who have the highest frequency of haplogroup I1 and I2b, and according to Wikipedia also the Dinaric Alps (I2a2 peak), although there is no data for other I2a2 hotspots like Moldova and Romania. The one exception seems to be I2a1, as Spaniards, Southwest French and Sardinians are less tall than the European average, especially Sardinians, who lack haplogroup R1a. So the question is whether the tallest people were originally R1a or IxI2a1, or both. After all, the Wikipedia ranking shows that the Lithuanians, Poles, Czechs and Slovaks are quite tall as well. It's interesting that all the ancient DNA from Paleolithic and Mesolithic North and Northeast Europe was always U4 or U5 (+ one U2 in Russia) in regions that were probably already I and R1a on the paternal side. In contrast, Southwest Europe (I2a1 region) already had a lot of other haplogroups (H, V, N1, N5) during the Mesolithic. So maximum body height seems to correlate with Paleolithic/Mesolithic North and East European ancestry.

as a whole, polish people and czech people are not tall, just middle as Swiss or Belgians - there was (i don't know for now) tall enough in Pomerania, close to Northeastern Germany and according to some authors, in the Southeastern mountains of Carpathes (see the tall Romanians of some Carpathian districts) -
when Scandinavians was 1m72-73, Bosnians 1m74, Germans and Greeks 1m69, Dutch and English people 1m71, these Poles was 1m66 as Czechs (it's means, I know) - to compare: same periods: France 1m65 (but ranging from 1m62 to 1m70) - some studies on stature are very unreliable: the tall Irish (same periods) put to 1m72 when they was 1m68 (some surveys was made on young people, but young people engaged in army: very often this kind of population is tallest that the reminding one, as veru often the new opulation in colonies. today you can add about 11-12 cm for the young people almost evreywhere.
to answer a following post, I should say that 'dinarics' in Carpathian mountains are maybe more 'autochtonous' there than in Dalmatia-Hercegovina, where there was almost nobody during the LGM if we take the archeology in account (but I 'm not up-to-date for eventual new discoveries there?)

 

[Eldritch]

Sardinians which are among the shortest Europeans are mainly I on the male line so i'd say no.

Tallest people in World(Dutch) aren't even majority I so i'd say no.

The pattern that I've noticed is:

J/E/G- short, gracile, creative and innovative, elongated head, dark hair/eyes
R1a/b- short,robust/strong, short, hard-working, round-headed, light hair/eyes.
I- tall, robust/strong, creative and innovative, elongated head

Though this only applies if the person is overwhelmingly composed of one of one of the HPs. Germanic people for example are a mix between I and R1b (also R1a), and therefore are both tall and have fair eyes/hair.

Strong pseudoscience here.

 

[Templar]

Strong pseudoscience here.

It isn't science at all. Just my own personal observations. You are by all means welcome to disagree.

 

[Templar]

A new study has found a strong link between haplogroup I frequency and height in Europe:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1570677X14000665

 

[Dagne]

Lithuanians have little haplogroup I, and still they are rather tall, taller than most of the Balcan nations apart from Montenegrians and people from Herzegovina. I think it is autosomals and height that should be linked. Perhaps it is something from hunter-gathers from Old Europe that makes people taller.

 

[oreo_cookie]

Russians are often tall too and I don't think haplogroup I is that common there either.