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New I2b map

LeBrok;376565 Some Goths minorities existed by black sea till recent times. Not all the Goths moved out by 500 hundreds. Many stayed behind and had longer time to influence gene pool in this area. It might be true also for Volga hot spot.[/QUOTE said:
I believe that there was Gotic minority on the coast of Black see in XVII century and they were speaking Gotic , and some of the words had writened when Russians taked aeria . But sun Gotic minority blend in to Russians and seized to egzist.
Click to expand...
 
I have updated the map of I2b (ISOGG I2a2)

Haplogroup-I2b.gif
 
archaiocapilos said:
The Visi-Goths didn't settle in Epirus or Aetolia. Nor did they settle in Smyrna or Peloponnese...
Click to expand...
Actually the highest percentage of I-M170 in Greece is found in Thessaly/Macedonia and not Epirus, now what subclades might be it's mystery.

Ioannina(Epirus capital) have only 8.3 % of I-M170 which unless is all I-M223(Unlikely) wouldn't make Epirus the region with more I-M223 in Greece.

The highest I is observed in Serrai, Macedonia.


4lATZQ6.jpg
 
Eqerem Cabej, a Viena educated Albanian Linguist studied the language of Aromanians. He speculated that some Illyrian tribes were Romanised and took latin as their native language. After Slavs came to Ballkans they became nomands. They new they had Illyrian roots, but their language was gone for good.Thats the reason they emigrated to Albannian lands,the blood connections not because they lost directions. Had they been of Germanic heretage they would have kept one word unchanged at least. They have not a single one in their vocabulary.There was no reason to change the word "mutter" at least. So Haplogroups R1b and I2b are also present in Albanian population. The Illyric origin of Aromanians makes a lot more sense that the Germanic one. It was a known fact that some Illyrians had northern origin. Not nessesary Germanic.
 
albanopolis said:
Eqerem Cabej, a Viena educated Albanian Linguist studied the language of Aromanians. He speculated that some Illyrian tribes were Romanised and took latin as their native language. After Slavs came to Ballkans they became nomands. They new they had Illyrian roots, but their language was gone for good.Thats the reason they emigrated to Albannian lands,the blood connections not because they lost directions. Had they been of Germanic heretage they would have kept one word unchanged at least. They have not a single one in their vocabulary.There was no reason to change the word "mutter" at least. So Haplogroups R1b and I2b are also present in Albanian population. The Illyric origin of Aromanians makes a lot more sense that the Germanic one. It was a known fact that some Illyrians had northern origin. Not nessesary Germanic.
Click to expand...

whatever,

so aromani are Albanians is next post?
GODS,

maybe Roms or Rumlars are Albanian also?
what else?
maybe Romanians are the Illyrians that did not become nomadic?
 
Maciamo:"Most of the I's appear to be I2, and mostly I2a2-Din. So it seems that they are native to the region." Is I2a2-Din "native to the region"?Hm...the old school dogma still alive.
 
So most of I2 of Albanians are mostly I2b?
This explain alot, because I1a which is exclusive Scandavian/German too is found among Albanians 6% and in balkan peaks in Kosovo/Macedonia/Albania also among Bulgarians and Croatis found almost 4%.

Seems I1a+I2b arrived together in Balkan.
 
Yetos said:
whatever,

so aromani are Albanians is next post?
GODS,

maybe Roms or Rumlars are Albanian also?
what else?
maybe Romanians are the Illyrians that did not become nomadic?
Click to expand...

Wellcome to the world, fellow.! I know you are surprised, since you are taught Greece is the center of Universe. Now, it comes down it is not. Yes! Not ALL ancient Albanians escaped Romanisation! Parts where today Slavs reside were fully romanised, which means they no longer spoke Illyrian. Slavic invasion forced them to look for the surviving mode which is the nomandic life they chose. Eqerem Cabej found Albanian words in their language, even among Vllahs residing in Greece, and this raised questions about their origin. One explanation was the Illyrian Origin, Another one is the area of Vllahia in present day Romania. But there are serious descreoancyes between Romanian language and Vllah language that raises the posibility of Illyrian origin, at least some of them. Can't you see there are arguments of possible Germanic origin of them, in the forums? If you have seen them, do they look Germans to you?
 
Prengu said:
So most of I2 of Albanians are mostly I2b?
This explain alot, because I1a which is exclusive Scandavian/German too is found among Albanians 6% and in balkan peaks in Kosovo/Macedonia/Albania also among Bulgarians and Croatis found almost 4%.

Seems I1a+I2b arrived together in Balkan.
Click to expand...
In Pericic study, Albanians from Kosovo seem to have more I-M253 than other I subclades but I-M223 is absent.
F2.large.jpg
 
Take a look!

Eldritch said:
In Pericic study, Albanians from Kosovo seem to have more I-M253 than other I subclades but I-M223 is absent.
F2.large.jpg
Click to expand...
Which of this Albanian clades is the same like Sardinians?
And this is Y-DNA from Albanians(25% of population Of R. Macedonia) in Macedonia:


[TABLE="class: cms_table"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Noveski,Trivodalieva, Efremov 2006-09[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Y Haplogroup[/TD]
[TD]Macedonians[/TD]
[TD]Albanians[/TD]
[TD]Others[/TD]
[TD]Total[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]E1b1b1a-M78[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]15.60%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]28.80%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]14.30%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]19.80%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]E1b1b1b-M81[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.80%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.60%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]E1b1b1c1-M34[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.40%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.80%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]G-M201[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.80%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.70%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.80%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.50%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]H-M69[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.40%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.80%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]14.30%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.30%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1*(xI1,I2a,I2b1)-M170[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.80%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.80%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.90%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]I1-M253[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.90%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6.30%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.20%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]I2a-P37b[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]27.50%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.80%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17.50%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]I2b1-M223[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.90%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.80%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.80%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]J*(xJ1a,J2)-12f2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.30%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.80%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.60%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]J2*(xJ2a4b,J2b)-M172[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.70%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.70%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9.50%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.40%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]J2a4b-M67[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.80%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.70%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9.50%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.20%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]J2b2-M241[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.20%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]13.50%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.80%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.90%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]L-M22[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.50%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.30%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]N1c-Tat[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.50%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.30%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]P*(xR1)-92R7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.50%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.80%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.60%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]R1*-M173[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.50%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.30%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]R1a1-SRY1532 *moe podolu[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]14.20%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]12.60%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.80%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]13.10%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]R1b1-P25[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.40%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]23.80%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]14.30%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]T-M70[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.90%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.20%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]TOTAL[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]100.00%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]99.90%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]100.20%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]100.00%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]* M448=L122 M459 SRY10831.2=SRY1532.2 | M516=L120 mutations[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

It is a relaible study by Macedonian, foresic Laboratory. Sample size 115 I think. The credit for publishing this table go to a Macedonian member of this forum.
 
Albanians from Macedonia according to the table you posted seem to still have much more I-M253 than other I clades.

R1a seems to be much higher than the Kosovars, Slavic influx?
 
Eldritch said:
Albanians from Macedonia according to the table you posted seem to still have much more I-M253 than other I clades.

R1a seems to be much higher than the Kosovars, Slavic influx?
Click to expand...

I wanted to ask which I subclade is the same like Sardinians. Yes, It makes sense, there have been intermarrigies among communities.
 
Eldritch said:
From what i see Sardinian clade it's not present.
Click to expand...
Thanks! There have been other studies who claim 2% Sardinian I subclade. About R1a in Albanians in Macedonia. Is it really slavic. I don't see much I2a AMONG Albanians. Usually the presence of I2a is higher than R1a among slavs. What is your opinion?
 
Funny think is in Battaglia (et al. 2008) study, is the opposite, found only 1.5 % R1a but 9.5% I2 among Albanians of Fyrom.
 
Prengu said:
Funny think is in Battaglia (et al. 2008) study, is the opposite, found only 1.5 % R1a but 9.5% I2 among Albanians of Fyrom.
Click to expand...
I think this study is more accurate. Marrigies between Albanians and Slav Macedonians have happened all the time in Byzantine times. They stoped when Albanians Islamisized. Islam did not accept interreligios marrigies. So R1a could be a 2% points higher or lower if the sample size increases. I would guess it coulg go down 2 points to get in line with national average. I suspect R1b should increase 2 percentage points to 20% in line with Geg Kosovars. What I can't figure out is the ratio R1a to I2a. In most south slavic populations the ratio I2a:R1a is 2:1. If R1a in Macedonian Albanians was Slavic presence then the amount of I2a among population should have been around 20%. In fact it is just 3%. Can you explain why?
 
albanopolis said:
I think this study is more accurate. Marrigies between Albanians and Slav Macedonians have happened all the time in Byzantine times. They stoped when Albanians Islamisized. Islam did not accept interreligios marrigies. So R1a could be a 2% points higher or lower if the sample size increases. I would guess it coulg go down 2 points to get in line with national average. I suspect R1b should increase 2 percentage points to 20% in line with Geg Kosovars. What I can't figure out is the ratio R1a to I2a. In most south slavic populations the ratio I2a:R1a is 2:1. If R1a in Macedonian Albanians was Slavic presence then the amount of I2a among population should have been around 20%. In fact it is just 3%. Can you explain why?
Click to expand...

Greek Macedonia is a region where significant numbers of Slavs had settled. It also today has much larger population than West FYROM. And I know about two studies which report higher R1a than I2a-Din percentage there (one study says 2 times higher).
Also Bulgaria for example is a Slavic country which does not have 2:1 ratio you wrote about.

So, I would say there was no strict ratio between I2a-Din and R1a among Slavs. But as it is obvious I2a-Din was in general more frequent than R1a among South Slavs.
 
Shetop said:
Greek Macedonia is a region where significant numbers of Slavs had settled. It also today has much larger population than West FYROM. And I know about two studies which report higher R1a than I2a-Din percentage there (one study says 2 times higher).
Also Bulgaria for example is a Slavic country which does not have 2:1 ratio you wrote about.

So, I would say there was no strict ratio between I2a-Din and R1a among Slavs. But as it is obvious I2a-Din was in general more frequent than R1a among South Slavs.
Click to expand...

Semi correct.

Greek Makedonia has a 23% R1a much of it fits with Eastern R1a the one you call Slav,
But Greek Makedonia has also significant diversity of R1a, which can be consider either as sink, either as homeland of R1a.
the R1a of Greece follows a downstream to Greece the one we known from history as the Dorian way. stops at 13% at Locri and follows a 5-8% to all Dorian lands, except Epizzephyreian Locri which is above 10%,
that road which is certified historically and genetically show the origin and genetics of Dorian descent,

in whole Italy (Magna Grecia) the biggest R1a concentrations are there where Dorians settled.

so the myth of R1a as Slavic mark is just a fairy tale,
in fact the I2a Din which has 2 major concentrations in Dinaric Alps and Skopje is better mark than R1a which expand even to Magna Grecia, a land which Slavs never settled to have such concentrations.

it seems like Slavs stop at Makedonia, and only families and followers via marriages with Palaiologos family went more south to Helmos mountains Peloponese,
 
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