What Are Slavic countries?

[Johannes]

Johannes, thank you very much for your time and effort, and for solving my poll!

I have counted your results. I think I will wait with revealing the details just in case if someone else wants to try (I won't make it easier for them). So instead of giving you detailed results now, I will give percentages (I will send to you detailed results later).

Your results in percentages:

Out of all Germans, you identified 56.608 percent as Germans, 42.952 percent as Poles, and you forgot to label a few.

Out of all Poles, you identified 54.625 percent as Germans (!), 44.323 percent as Poles, and you forgot to label a few.

Well I said 60-65% Germans and I was close (your result said 55-57%). I still think your methodology was wrong: if you find a sample similar to this with young people from Poland and Germany 18-40 I bet I will be more accurate. How much you want to bet?

 

[LeBrok]

Well I said 60-65% Germans and I was close (your result said 55-57%). I still think your methodology was wrong: if you find a sample similar to this with young people from Poland and Germany 18-40 I bet I will be more accurate. How much you want to bet?

If there was equal amount of Poles and Germans, you did a bit better than a chance. Congratulations.

 

[Rethel]

I would resolve this by another way: prittier
ones are Poles, this uglier - Germans.

 

[Johannes]

OK Tomenable you have stopped answering my posts. I understand as I saw you are busy with other posts. However, I will give you my answer to the second part.

B) The first part I disagree with the 1 million Slavs who lived in such a tiny little area of Germany. You figures are from some Polish source? Anyway, to answer the second part; yes I was right: the Slavs were ethnically cleansed -- they lost their language and culture. YES many were assimilated but equally or more were expelled and exterminated. This happened from 922 AD when Henry the Fowler began the conquest until the end of the Wendish Crusade in the 12th century. It started as a way of converting the Slavs to Christianity and then it evolved into land grabbing and ethnic cleansing by the nobles and the Church. All this I knew but it was 20-25 years ago and you provided a lot of very interesting facts from the "losing" side. However, it does not change things. I will admit the Slav DNA increased to about 30% Ra1. Its significant but hardly makes Eastern Germans into "Germanized" Slavs.

I did not want to tell you until I had to read all your information and re-read the facts on wikipedia. I went to Germany many times and I always go to Eastern Germany because there they have the most beautiful Germans. The thing I noticed was that Germans in that region (especially Thuringia-Saxony) the people look very "Nordic." They have long heads with delicate features (which makes them very attractive people) and they have a white-sallow complexion and are generally tall with delicate bone structure. They do not look like Poles or Czechs. They look a lot like the Saxons in NW Germany. Since allmost all the Germans came from Saxony and Holland, it makes sense. Anyway, thats my opinion.

If you asked me who looks more "Germanic" among the Slavs and Balts it is this: 1) Lithuanians and Latvians, 2) Ukrainians, 3) Belorussians, 4) Croats. 5) Poles, 6) Russians, 7) Serbs-Bosniaks, 8) Bulgarians (these dont even look European).

 

[Johannes]

If there was equal amount of Poles and Germans, you did a bit better than a chance. Congratulations.

Lebrok: tell me: do you think people in suits with glasses, women with heavy make up, and of advanced ages are a good sample to use for this experiment, especially when dealing with white people of different ethnicities?

 

[Johannes]

I would resolve this by another way: prittier
ones are Poles, this uglier - Germans.

I dont know about that: I know you are a Pole and thus biased: However, Germans are a very good looking people!

 

[LeBrok]

Lebrok: tell me: do you think people in suits with glasses, women with heavy make up, and of advanced ages are a good sample to use for this experiment, especially when dealing with white people of different ethnicities?

Well, I wasn't the one claiming super powers to recognize ethnic differences by looking at Poles and Germans.

 

[Johannes]

Well, I wasn't the one claiming super powers to recognize ethnic differences by looking at Poles and Germans.

You did not answer the question. I never said I had "super powers" you said it.

 

[LeBrok]

You did not answer the question. I never said I had "super powers" you said it.

The point was that "super power" is required to recognize differences in any substantial rate.

 

[mihaitzateo]

I dont know about that: I know you are a Pole and thus biased: However, Germans are a very good looking people!

Well ,Poles are quite Baltid people,most males I do not think they like Baltid women.
They prefer Nordid women.
As for Russian and Ukrainian women,they have heavy Germanic,Uralic,Asian influences.

 

[Rethel]

Well ,Poles are quite Baltid people,most males I do not think they like Baltid women.

Not at all. This is only small minority.

 

[Yetos]

Well ,Poles are quite Baltid people,most males I do not think they like Baltid women.
They prefer Nordid women.
As for Russian and Ukrainian women,they have heavy Germanic,Uralic,Asian influences.

that is because north Slavic and Baltic women are very untaimed, and want to have the uper hand in family,
they are very demanding, and like to be master of family, :innocent:

Russian Ukrainian women are just crazy nuts,

 

[Piro Ilir]

Lol, former Eastern Germany is not a Slavic country.
Slavic countries:
West Slavic speakers: Poland,Czech Republik ,Slovakia
South Slavic speakers: Bulgaria,FYROM - Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia,Montenegro,Serbia,Bosnia&Herzegovina (known as Bosnia),Croatia,Slovenia
Eastern Slavic speakers: Belarus,Russia,Ukraine
Greeks have few Slavic genes,Romanian are having mostly Slavic genetics,but we speak a Romance language.
The closest languages to Slavic,in Europe,are Lavian and Lithuanian,which both are part of Balto-Slavic branch of IE languages.
After Latvian and Lithuanian,Romanian also have around 20% of the words common to Slavic languages.

Another thing,about "good looking Slavic women" - that is a myth.
Some Ukrainian and Russian women are looking very good,but when Ukraine has like 45 millions people and Russia,almost 150 millions,is normal that you find some very good looking women between these.
Also,Eastern Slavic women are having softer face lines,like smaller nose,etc.

Mostly agree. You said that 20% of Romanian words are common with slavic. Ok,but I'm curious,to which of those Slavic tongues are common. It will be interesting

 

[Johannes]

Well ,Poles are quite Baltid people,most males I do not think they like Baltid women. They prefer Nordid women. As for Russian and Ukrainian women,they have heavy Germanic,Uralic,Asian influences.

I have been to Ukraine and Russia and I have seen people that look like normal Northern Europeans (some very Nordic that would have made Hitler proud) and at the same time seen people that look nothing at all European!! Strange countries: some men look also like criminals and many women look like models!!!! Maybe most of the "normal" people were exterminated by the Bolsheviks during the 20th century?

 

[Johannes]

Russian Ukrainian women are just crazy nuts,

Not just crazy but greedy and fickle. They make $200 USD a month yet they act like they are movie stars.

 

[Yetos]

Not just crazy but greedy and fickle. They make $200 USD a month yet they act like they are movie stars.

but the whole universe is cheering when they pass

 

[RobertColumbia]

...
Another thing,about "good looking Slavic women" - that is a myth.
Some Ukrainian and Russian women are looking very good,but when Ukraine has like 45 millions people and Russia,almost 150 millions,is normal that you find some very good looking women between these.
Also,Eastern Slavic women are having softer face lines,like smaller nose,etc.

It's a stereotype, and like most stereotypes, has a basis in fact but is exaggerated out of proportion. Compare the stereotypical "ginger" redheaded Celtic woman who is sometimes sweet and sentimental but can blow her top at any moment and become a mighty battle princess.

Let's settle on, that it used to be Slavic some time ago.

It's a historic Slavic area, i.e. one that is more associated with Slavic history than with modern-day Slavic culture. Compare it with the "Little Italy" neighborhood in New York City - it is a shell of what it once was as the actual ethnic Italian population has moved en masse to the suburbs and all over the place, leaving only a small remnant to keep what remains alive.

 

[Ike]

After the German tribes migrated west and south during the 5-6th century the Slavs moved in from the Vistula and settled Eastern Germany (up to the Elbe) during the 8th century. But they were later ethnically cleansed by the Germans during the 9-10th centuries. The Sorbs are the remnants of the few Slavs who stayed (most fled to Poland and Czech Republic. Although eastern Germany has more R1a than other parts it is doubtful it came from the Slavs. Therefore Eastern Germany has always been Germanic. The Russian occupation did little to nothing to influence the DNA.

Don't agree.

You have a map here showing where the division line was. As it says, region was feudalised and pacified. My bet is that East Germany is still a Slavic territory.

 

[joeyc]

In Slavic-Balkanic countries the ratio of good looking women and ugly men is astonishing. I see ex yugos and Poles on daily basis and half of their couples are made up of model-tier women and ugloid men.

 

[Tomenable]

In Slavic-Balkanic countries the ratio of good looking women (...) is astonishing

^ Below is an excerpt from "Journey of Ahmad Ibn-Fadlan to the Itil River and Adoption of Islam in Bulgaria". This book describes the journey of Ahmad Ibn-Fadlan, Chief of the Embassy of the Baghdad Caliph Al-Muktadir to the Volga River, to the realm of Volga Bulgars (now in central Russia), in years 921-922 CE, in regard to their adoption of Islam. An excerpt describes people whom Ibn-Fadlan calls the Rusiyyah [Russians?], who travelled to the city of Bolghar to sell female slaves and sable skins:

"(...) The Rusiyyah are the filthiest of Allah's creatures: they do not purify themselves after excreting or urinating, nor do they wash themselves when in a state of impurity after coitus and do not even wash their hands after food. Indeed they are like wild asses that roam in the fields. They arrive from their land and moor their boats by the Itil, which is a great river, building on its banks large wooden houses. They gather in each house in their tens and twenties, sometimes more, or less. Each of them has a couch on which he sits. They are accompanied by beautiful slave girls for trading. One man will have intercourse with his slave-girl while his companions look on. Sometimes a group of them comes together to do this, each in front of the other. Sometimes indeed a merchant will come in to buy a slave-girl from one of them and he will chance upon him having intercourse with her, but a Rus will not leave her alone until he has satisfied his urge. They cannot, of course, avoid washing their faces and their heads each day, which they do with the filthiest and most polluted water imaginable. I shall explain. Every day a slave-girl arrives in the morning with a large basin with water, which she hands to her owner. He washes his hands, then his face and his hair in the water, then he dips his comb in the water and brushes his hair, blows his nose and spits in the basin. There is no filthy impurity which he will not do in this water. When he no longer requires it, the slave-girl takes the basin to the man beside him and he goes through the same routine as his friend. She continues to carry it from one man to the next until she has gone round everyone in the house, with each of them blowing his nose and spitting into the basin, then washing his face and hair in the basin. (...)"

And after getting to the city of Bulgar, also known as Bolghar (here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolghar ):

"(...) As soon as their boats arrive at this port [the city of Bolghar], each of them disembarks (...) and prostrates himself before a great idol, saying to it: 'Oh my lord, I have come from a far country and I have with me such and such a number of young beautiful slave girls, and such and such a number of sable skins (...) I would like you to do the favour of sending me a merchant who has large quantities of dinars and dirhams and who will buy everything that I want and not argue with me over my price. (...)"

Marek Jankowiak in his article "Dirham for slaves...", wrote the following about Ibn Fadlan's account cited by me above:

"(...) From Bolghar, we have the famous eye-witness account of Ibn Fadlan, who visited it in 922, and who emphasizes the central importance of slave trade (...) Ibn Fadlan's insistence specifically on slave girls is perhaps more than voyeurism. It probably tells us something about the nature of the demand for Slavic slaves in the Islamic world. (...)"

Jankowiak also estimated that the total export from Kievan Russia during the 10th century amounted to 30,000 - 60,000 slaves - predominantly female sex slaves - which means that annually only up to 300 - 600 were sold into slavery and exported:

This means, that in modern Ukraine slavery is more common than it was in 10th century Ukraine.

According to various data by organizations which defend human rights, in years 1991 - 2006 in total ca. 117,000 people, mostly women, were enslaved and exported from Ukraine, which gives 7,800 annually. While acording to Jankowiak's estimate, in the 10th century, only around 450 (300 - 600) people, also mostly women, were being exported from entire Kievan Russia annually.

Even after correcting for differences in modern vs. 10th century population size, it seems that modern situation is worse.

Some articles about modern human trafficking in Ukraine:

The "Natasha" Trade: The Transnational Shadow Market of Trafficking in Women:

http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/natasha.htm

http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/natasha_nij.pdf

East European Women Trapped In Sex Slavery:

http://www.sos-sexisme.org/english/east.htm

Beaten, raped, tortured and starved: The shocking fate of Eastern European sex trafficking victims revealed:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...uropean-sex-trafficking-victims-revealed.html

Human Trafficking & Modern-day Slavery in Ukraine:

http://gvnet.com/humantrafficking/Ukraine.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking_in_Ukraine

"The Desperate Western Men Hunting For Wives In Ukraine":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wW7c58nMI4

===========================

And in the 10th century - at least according to Ibn Fadlan - only women were sold into slavery, while today also men & children:

(...) In addition, trafficking occurs within Ukraine; men and women are trafficked within the country for the purposes of labor exploitation in the agriculture and service sectors, commercial sexual exploitation, and forced begging. Ukrainian children are trafficked both internally and transnationally for commercial sexual exploitation, forced begging, and involuntary servitude in the agriculture industry. An IOM survey released in December 2006 concluded that since 1991, approximately 117,000 Ukrainians had been forced into exploitative situations in Europe, the Middle East, and Russia. (...)