Immigration immigrants in Riace, Italy, the story the press didn't (want to) tell

[bicicleur 2]

immigration into Europe is a very hot topic for the moment
the press is jumping on this topic and most comments are not neutral but biassed

but this documentary I saw this evening beats it all

google 'riace immigrants' and you'll find hundreds of succes stories like this :
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/12/italian-village-migrants-sea
what a succes story about immigration isn't it?
it's a proof that immigration is a positive story

it's a big lie, told by press so eager for a positive story that they failed to see the ugly truth behind it

now it appears :

- they mayor of Riace receives 35 € a day, ie. 1050 € per month per immigrant in Riace, taxpayers money from the state of Italy & Europe
- the immigrants get 250 € per month from the mayor, 800 € per month per immigrant gets lost unaccounted for
- the mayor says he can pay only 250 € per month because the Italian state pays to slow, in the mean time he creates a new currency (IOU's) which is only valid within Riace which he gives to the immigrants as 'an advance' ; so the immigrants have no choice but to spend these IOU's within Riace in local and very expensive grocery stores ; only friends and relatives can open grocery stores, others don't get a permit
- the indogenous people left in the village have no more jobs, they have lived in this village all their lives, yet they are looking to move elsewhere

I guess this is a story to be continued

shame on the press who has told us lies about this situation since 2011 and failed to uncover the scandalous truth

If you want to know the truth, don't believe the press

 

[LeBrok]

it's a proof that immigration is a positive story

I'm not sure why you don't realize that your story is about corruption of local officials, and not about immigration being positive or not. How about immigration story in Italian city where there is no corruption? Or perhaps you want to insinuate that immigrants made the official corrupt?
All we can read is that immigrants are the victims of corrupt officials. I mean if your story is true. Do you mind sharing a source of your information?

 

[bicicleur 2]

I'm not sure why you don't realize that your story is about corruption of local officials, and not about immigration being positive or not. How about immigration story in Italian city where there is no corruption? Or perhaps you want to insinuate that immigrants made the official corrupt?
All we can read is that immigrants are the victims of corrupt officials. I mean if your story is true. Do you mind sharing a source of your information?

Read my post, I told you it was a documentary I saw yesterday evening.
And I don't insinuate anything, will you just read my post?
It is about the press not doing their job properly, corruption by the mayor and squandering taxmoney by the politicians.
They spend 12.000 € / immigrant to give them a years holiday in this small village.
After that year, I suppose most of them continue to live on welfare.
What a succes story this is.
I hope you understand how irritated European taxpayers get when they learn about all this.
The politicians spend a lot of money, not to help the immigrants integrate in the European society, just to support their own image, so naive voters will continue supporting them.
Instead they support the Italian mob and probably get a commision from them.

 

[LeBrok]

Read my post, I told you it was a documentary I saw yesterday evening.
And I don't insinuate anything, will you just read my post?
It is about the press not doing their job properly, corruption by the mayor and squandering taxmoney by the politicians.
They spend 12.000 € / immigrant to give them a years holiday in this small village.
After that year, I suppose most of them continue to live on welfare.

Why would you want to suppose, to be wrong? Let's get some stats.

What a succes story this is.

Saving lives?

I hope you understand how irritated European taxpayers get when they learn about all this.

I know. I just don't see the rational based of facts. They are scared of new people, they are scared of changes, they are scared of new cultures, religion, etc. People easily get scared of many things, even of their own imagination. It doesn't mean their worries are rational.

 

[bicicleur 2]

Why would you want to suppose, to be wrong? Let's get some stats.

Saving lives?


I know. I just don't see the rational based of facts. They are scared of new people, they are scared of changes, they are scared of new cultures, religion, etc. People easily get scared of many things, even of their own imagination. It doesn't mean their worries are rational.

it would be better if the press and the politicians would tell the truth

yes these people cost money in housing and basic support
yes many of them are not apt for a job and will be dificult to integrate in European society
and yes there are crooks and golddiggers among them with a fake story trying to get in
yes Europe has made many mistakes in the past letting enter the wrong people and many of them stiil create problems are a serious cost for society

I think real genuine refugees deserve shelter and a chance to integrate in Europe even if it is dificult
but if politicians have told allready so many lies in the past, why should people trust them on this occasion?

 

[Sile]

immigration into Europe is a very hot topic for the moment
the press is jumping on this topic and most comments are not neutral but biassed

but this documentary I saw this evening beats it all

google 'riace immigrants' and you'll find hundreds of succes stories like this :
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/12/italian-village-migrants-sea
what a succes story about immigration isn't it?
it's a proof that immigration is a positive story

it's a big lie, told by press so eager for a positive story that they failed to see the ugly truth behind it

now it appears :

- they mayor of Riace receives 35 € a day, ie. 1050 € per month per immigrant in Riace, taxpayers money from the state of Italy & Europe
- the immigrants get 250 € per month from the mayor, 800 € per month per immigrant gets lost unaccounted for
- the mayor says he can pay only 250 € per month because the Italian state pays to slow, in the mean time he creates a new currency (IOU's) which is only valid within Riace which he gives to the immigrants as 'an advance' ; so the immigrants have no choice but to spend these IOU's within Riace in local and very expensive grocery stores ; only friends and relatives can open grocery stores, others don't get a permit
- the indogenous people left in the village have no more jobs, they have lived in this village all their lives, yet they are looking to move elsewhere

I guess this is a story to be continued

shame on the press who has told us lies about this situation since 2011 and failed to uncover the scandalous truth

If you want to know the truth, don't believe the press

Don't you think that each region in each country, in Europe has the option to take or not take these immigrants .............IMO, if left to the government , some countries will end in civil war

merkel is thinking of settling most of these in the void of old east-germany.....I can see the czechs, poles and sorbs showing some angst in time

 

[epoch]

Saving lives?

O you want to save lives? Then close the borders, tow back the boats, unload and destroy them. Arrest smugglers and arm wrestle Turkey into actually doing something about boats leaving their coast. Threatening to recognize Rojava would be sufficient I suppose.

Enforce the rules. Tighten them.

 

[LeBrok]

it would be better if the press and the politicians would tell the truth

It's my dream too.

yes these people cost money in housing and basic support
yes many of them are not apt for a job and will be dificult to integrate in European society

Just for couple of years, then migrants will pay back in taxes and new consumerism.

and yes there are crooks and golddiggers among them with a fake story trying to get in
yes Europe has made many mistakes in the past letting enter the wrong people and many of them stiil create problems are a serious cost for society

I would say minority. I don't deny there are immigrants who come to take full advantage of situation, but they are in big minority.

I think real genuine refugees deserve shelter and a chance to integrate in Europe even if it is dificult
but if politicians have told allready so many lies in the past, why should people trust them on this occasion?

Sometimes we have to take a chance and trust blindly. I'm sure most of Syrians will go back to their country when the war is over, and maybe they will pay back when WW3 starts in Europe (hope not). Generally speaking people are mostly good, they work, they raise kids, pay taxes, take care of kids, buy homes etc. Nothing much to wary about.

 

[LeBrok]

O you want to save lives? Then close the borders, tow back the boats, unload and destroy them. Arrest smugglers and arm wrestle Turkey into actually doing something about boats leaving their coast. Threatening to recognize Rojava would be sufficient I suppose.

Enforce the rules. Tighten them.

There is another way. Send European ships to pic refugees up. You can even charge for tickets, they will gladly pay the fair and they won't die trying to get to Europe.

Enforce the rules. Tighten them.

Yes, let's get the EU working together, getting real solutions. I gave few ideas in the other thread, just not to hand in european limbo.

 

[epoch]

There is another way. Send European ships to pic refugees up. You can even charge for tickets, they will gladly pay the fair and they won't die trying to get to Europe.

And have an experiment with European societies that can never be turned back once it fails. With the knowledge that once you haul in all Syrians - and God only knows how many will call themselves "Syrians" - others, African, will take the boats from Libya and the problem of the deaths will simply reappear.

That would be taking a gamble with societies you don't even live in. I find that rude.

The ONLY way is closing the border. Worked in Australia.

 

[LeBrok]

And have an experiment with European societies that can never be turned back once it fails. With the knowledge that once you haul in all Syrians - and God only knows how many will call themselves "Syrians" - others, African, will take the boats from Libya and the problem of the deaths will simply reappear.

Whatever the consequence, I pointed to other solution to trafficking problem you brought up.

That would be taking a gamble with societies you don't even live in. I find that rude.

On contrary, I live in a society where every third citizen was born abroad. If anyone, I am the one who lives in migrant society build by migrant society. It is pretty good here.

The ONLY way is closing the border. Worked in Australia.

Is your society in agreement with you?

 

[epoch]

Whatever the consequence, I pointed to other solution to trafficking problem you brought up.

And I pointed you to the consequences.

On contrary, I live in a society where every third citizen was born abroad. If anyone, I am the one who lives in migrant society build by migrant society. It is pretty good here.

That is what the South-African whites used to say as well.

 

[LeBrok]

And I pointed you to the consequences.

You mean, speculated consequences based on your fear? Why speculate if we have successful Canada, US, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, all in majority built on immigrants.

 

[Vallicanus]

The USA has millions of disillusioned and impoverished people, often black or Hispanic, but some whites too.

So much for your "success".

Taiwan and Hong Kong are mostly ethnically Chinese!

 

[LeBrok]

The USA has millions of disillusioned and impoverished people, often black or Hispanic.

So much for your "success".

Don't you have impoverished and disillusioned people in Scotland? I bet it makes it a failed state! I suggest you take a different measure of success than few disillusioned.

Taiwan and Hong Kong are mostly ethnically Chinese!

So is China, and yet the more successful Hong Kong and Taiwan was built by immigrants.

 

[Vallicanus]

Don't you have impoverished and disillusioned people in Scotland? I bet it makes it a failed state! I suggest you take a different measure of success than few disillusioned.
So is China, and yet the more successful Hong Kong and Taiwan was built by immigrants.

Hong Kong and Taiwan are mainly ethnically Chinese, not immigrant.


The USA has tens of millions (not "a few disillusioned" in your words) poor and racially downtrodden, poor health provision, massive gun crime, broken families, drugs out of control....
Sounds peachy to me!

 

[LeBrok]

Hong Kong and Taiwan are mainly ethnically Chinese, not immigrant. Millions Chinese, escaped there fleeing communist China. Check history books.

The USA has tens of millions (not "a few disillusioned" in your words) poor and racially downtrodden, poor health provision, massive gun crime, broken families, drugs out of control....
Sounds peachy to me!

And yet it is most powerful country in the world, with higher GDP per capita than Scotland, best universities, best research facilities inventing new technologies, setting fashion and cultural trends, etc. The point is, built by immigrants from around the world.
Enjoy your ethnically cleansed Scotland. Something to die for.

 

[Vallicanus]

I suggest you check geography and history.

Taiwan and Hong Kong are historically Chinese so how can Chinese moving there from other parts of China be other than merely internal migrants, not foreign non-Chinese immigrants.

Who is servicing the USA's enormous debts...oh yes...China.


BTW Scotland has many foreigners, even Poles.

 

[LeBrok]

I suggest you check geography and history.

Taiwan and Hong Kong are historically Chinese so how can Chinese moving there from other parts of China be other than merely internal migrants, not foreign non-Chinese immigrants.

Thanks for pointing it. But secondly, do you think that being Chinese means one ethnicity?

Who is servicing the USA's enormous debts...oh yes...China.

What does it have to do with being successful? Half of world's capital has connection to US, even Chinese capital.

BTW Scotland has many foreigners, even Poles.

You said it like you are proud of it.

 

[Vallicanus]

My definition of national success would not include depending on a rival power, China, controlling my debts nor would it include social problems like massive gun crime, a vast gap between rich and poor, black and white, lousy health provision for the poor and the disintegration of family values.