GEDMatch HarappaWorld Gedmatch, post and compare your admixtures to ancient and contemporary.

[Sile]

Here are the details of Italians that I have. Interestingly a huge diversification in Sicilians.

Italy, NE	Population	S-Indian	Baloch	Caucasian	NE-Euro	SE-Asian	Siberian	NE-Asian	Papuan	American	Beringian	Mediterranean	SW-Asian	San	E-African	Pygmy	W-African
1	Sile's father	0.82	6.87	19.50	33.50	0.54						32.20	6.20			0.32
2	Sile	0.85	8.21	20.13	32.28							32.49	5.89				0.15
3	Sile's wife		7.11	20.17	35.15		0.06	0.58	0.46			32.16	4.17				0.16
Italy, NE	3	1	7	20	34	0	0	0	0	0	0	32	5	0	0	0	0

Sicily	Population	S-Indian	Baloch	Caucasian	NE-Euro	SE-Asian	Siberian	NE-Asian	Papuan	American	Beringian	Mediterranean	SW-Asian	San	E-African	Pygmy	W-African
1	Joey D		8.96	37.71	15.28				0.77			24.56	10.94		0.50		0.76
2	Hauteville 1		8.57	34.05	17.84	0.46	0.07		0.05			25.06	12.38		1.49		0.03
3	Hauteville 2	0.76	8.31	32.00	18.25				0.43			28.04	11.54	0.29	0.38
4	Hauteville 3		8.87	30.11	18.32	0.01					0.16	28.00	12.70		1.23		0.61
5	Hauteville 4		9.03	27.85	19.67		0.31	0.51	0.56			27.21	12.49	0.06	1.11	0.34	0.54
Sicily	5	0	9	32	18	0	0	0	0	0	0	27	12	0	1	0	0

Italy, South	Population	S-Indian	Baloch	Caucasian	NE-Euro	SE-Asian	Siberian	NE-Asian	Papuan	American	Beringian	Mediterranean	SW-Asian	San	E-African	Pygmy	W-African
1	Puglia		7.10	35.34	15.91		0.11		0.71	0.62		28.16	11.53		1.00	0.34	0.16
2	Puglia 2	0.53	8.82	29.25	18.40		0.64		0.30	0.63		27.99	13.06		0.07		0.29
3	Basilicata		9.02	30.34	19.21	0.20			0.13	0.07		26.46	13.57	0.16	0.66		0.19
4	Campania	0.39	9.92	36.26	13.51				0.06			24.24	14.72		0.70	0.20
5	Compaina 2	0.93	7.00	31.29	18.65	0.55			0.32			28.33	12.66	0.11	0.18
Italy, South	5	0	8	32	17	0	0	0	0	0	0	27	13	0	1	0	0

you left my son out ( one of )

 

[LeBrok]

you left my son out ( one of )

We have you and your wife. Your son contains your both genetics, so we already have his DNA.

 

[Northener]

Brainwave. Aren't we in danger to be in the act of constant relabeling? EEF, HG and Steppe in different blends? What is brand new in or about Happa....Just some considerations!

 

[Sile]

Brainwave. Aren't we in danger to be in the act of constant relabeling? EEF, HG and Steppe in different blends? What is brand new in or about Happa....Just some considerations!

Harappa is an old 2013 program , concentrating on more middle-east than the other programs .............you should see a lot of jewish in the results as well


like, my uncle via my maternal side ...........whose origins are friulian/istrian/slovenian areas

#

	Population	Percent
1	NE-Euro	42.57
2	Mediterranean	30.05
3	Caucasian	15.15
4	Baloch	6.42
5	SW-Asian	4.18
6	Siberian	0.81
7	S-Indian	0.53
8	SE-Asian	0.25
9	San	0.04

Single Population Sharing:

#	Population (source)	Distance
1	hungarian (behar)	8.14
2	french (hgdp)	8.3
3	slovenian (xing)	10.19
4	n-european (xing)	12.52
5	utahn-white (1000genomes)	12.69
6	romanian-a (behar)	12.79
7	utahn-white (hapmap)	13.65
8	british (1000genomes)	14.46
9	bulgarian (yunusbayev)	15.03
10	italian (hgdp)	15.37

1		83.40%	hungarian (behar)	+	16.60%	sardinian (hgdp)	@	1.28
4		80.10%	slovenian (xing)	+	19.90%	sardinian (hgdp)	@	1.79
16		75.80%	n-european (xing)	+	24.20%	sephardic-jew (behar)	@	2.88
13		72.30%	n-european (xing)	+	27.70%	ashkenazy-jew (behar)	@	2.73
9		70.10%	n-european (xing)	+	29.90%	ashkenazi (harappa)	@	2.46
15		69.90%	utahn-white (1000genomes)	+	30.10%	ashkenazi (harappa)	@	2.85
5		69.60%	hungarian (behar)	+	30.40%	spaniard (1000genomes)	@	2.22
7		68.20%	ukranian (yunusbayev)	+	31.80%	sardinian (hgdp)	@	2.44
2		67.30%	italian (hgdp)	+	32.70%	lithuanian (behar)	@	1.65
8		66.20%	hungarian (behar)	+	33.80%	italian (hgdp)	@	2.46
20		64.80%	italian (hgdp)	+	35.20%	russian (hgdp)	@	3.01
10		64.40%	slovenian (xing)	+	35.60%	spaniard (1000genomes)	@	2.54
3		63.20%	n-european (xing)	+	36.80%	tuscan (1000genomes)	@	1.74
6		62.70%	slovenian (xing)	+	37.30%	spaniard (behar)	@	2.37
11		61.60%	italian (hgdp)	+	38.40%	belorussian (behar)	@	2.58
12		61.30%	utahn-white (hapmap)	+	38.70%	tuscan (1000genomes)	@	2.66
14		60.70%	slovenian (xing)	+	39.30%	italian (hgdp)	@	2.85
18		55.40%	italian (hgdp)	+	44.60%	ukranian (yunusbayev)	@	2.97
19		53.20%	romanian-a (behar)	+	46.80%	british (1000genomes)	@	2.98
17		51%	british (1000genomes)	+	49%	bulgarian (yunusbayev)	@	2.9

 

[LeBrok]

I found populations averages, and some of them are the source of admixtures for this calculator.

Ethnicity	Dataset		S Indian	Baloch	Caucasian	NE Euro	SE Asian	Siberian	NE Asian	Papuan	American	Beringian	Mediterranean	SW Asian	San	E African	Pygmy	W African
paniya	chaubey	3	84%	0%	3%	0%	4%	2%	2%	4%	1%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%
brahui	hgdp	25	12%	58%	12%	2%	1%	0%	0%	1%	0%	0%	2%	10%	0%	1%	0%	1%
georgian	behar	20	0%	17%	72%	6%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	1%	1%	0%	0%	0%	0%
finnish	1000genomes	100	1%	1%	2%	80%	0%	6%	0%	0%	0%	1%	5%	5%	0%	0%	0%	0%
iban	xing	25	5%	0%	0%	0%	87%	4%	0%	2%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%
nganassan	rasmussen	12	0%	1%	1%	3%	0%	89%	1%	0%	0%	4%	1%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%
japanese	1000genomes	7	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	1%	99%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%
papuan	hgdp	17	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	100%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%
colombian	hgdp	7	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	100%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%
chukchi	rasmussen	15	0%	0%	1%	5%	0%	12%	0%	0%	1%	80%	1%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%
sardinian	hgdp	28	0%	0%	20%	12%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	60%	7%	0%	0%	0%	0%
saudi	behar	20	1%	5%	26%	1%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	3%	58%	0%	3%	0%	1%
san	hgdp	6	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	100%	0%	0%	0%
gumuz	pagani	18	0%	0%	0%	0%	1%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	2%	1%	93%	3%	0%
mbutipygmy	hgdp	13	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	100%	0%
yoruba	1000genomes	5	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%	100%

And a full list:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1l87nGSIYTP-h7m-VKjB-BZcuEoWdz765nU4f_krOdd4/edit#gid=0

 

[LeBrok]

Harappa is an old 2013 program , concentrating on more middle-east than the other programs .............you should see a lot of jewish in the results as well


like, my uncle via my maternal side ...........whose origins are friulian/istrian/slovenian areas

#

	Population	Percent
1	NE-Euro	42.57
2	Mediterranean	30.05
3	Caucasian	15.15
4	Baloch	6.42
5	SW-Asian	4.18
6	Siberian	0.81
7	S-Indian	0.53
8	SE-Asian	0.25
9	San	0.04

Yes, he has 10% more NE Euro than average NE Italian. Must be the Slovenian side of his ancestry.

 

[LeBrok]

We have almost complete set of Italians, except Sardinians.

Europeans	# of samples	S-Indian	Baloch	Caucasian	NE-Euro	SE-Asian	Siberian	NE-Asian	Papuan	American	Beringian	Mediterranean	SW-Asian	San	E-African	Pygmy	W-African
Poland	LeBrok	1	7	10	57	1	1	0	0	0	0	22	1	0	0	0	0
Netherlands	Northerner	0	9	6	55	0	0	0	1	0	0	29	0	0	0	0	0
Albania	Dibran	0	5	30	27	0	0	0	0	0	0	30	8	0	0	0	0
Italy, NE	7	0	7	20	34	0	0	0	0	0	0	31	6	0	0	0	0
Italy, NW	5	0	6	20	33	0	0	0	0	0	0	34	6	0	0	0	0
Italy, Tuscany	4	0	7	25	28	0	0	0	0	0	0	32	8	0	0	0	0
Italy, South	5	0	8	32	17	0	0	0	0	0	0	27	13	0	1	0	0
Sicily	5	0	9	32	18	0	0	0	0	0	0	27	12	0	1	0	0
Ashkenazy	?	1	7	39	16	0	1	0	0	0	0	24	15	0	1	0	0

The most interesting thing here, if it comes to Italians, is that Baloch is rising the farther South we go. From 6 in North to 9 in Sicily. There were two sources of Baloch in the past, one was Indo European/ Steppe invasion, second one South Caucasus populations, like Iranian Farmer, CHG, and by Bronze Age infiltrated to Anatolia/Syria area. If the heightened Baloch in South Italy came from Steppe, then we would also see heightened NE Euro, but we don't. NE Euro drops by half but Baloch goes up by 50%. Steppe can be responsible for 2-3% of Baloch in South by not for 9%. It means that someone else brought additional 5-6% of Baloch. Source population needed to have substantial Baloch and Caucasian, and also some SW Asian and Med, and very low NE Euro. Unfortunately we don't have enough ancient samples in GedMatch to find close match for them, but I'm guessing this area will be around Bronze Age Central/East Anatolia and Syria.
Well, Bronze Age migration of Trojans and alike from Anatolia might be revisited. Or possibly, Bronze Age migration and trade by Sea was much bigger than we expected and centered on Near East. The Minoans and their cousins to the East?

 

[Sile]

Yes, he has 10% more NE Euro than average NE Italian. Must be the Slovenian side of his ancestry.

My Grandmothers line going back to ~450AD was from western istria ............that is what my second cousin told me ...........they then moved along the coast to venice and are part of the 24 first families that settled in the Venice lagoon area



Basegio .......now written as Baseggio

 

[Sile]

We have almost complete set of Italians, except Sardinians.

Europeans	# of samples	S-Indian	Baloch	Caucasian	NE-Euro	SE-Asian	Siberian	NE-Asian	Papuan	American	Beringian	Mediterranean	SW-Asian	San	E-African	Pygmy	W-African
Poland	LeBrok	1	7	10	57	1	1	0	0	0	0	22	1	0	0	0	0
Netherlands	Northerner	0	9	6	55	0	0	0	1	0	0	29	0	0	0	0	0
Albania	Dibran	0	5	30	27	0	0	0	0	0	0	30	8	0	0	0	0
Italy, NE	7	0	7	20	34	0	0	0	0	0	0	31	6	0	0	0	0
Italy, NW	5	0	6	20	33	0	0	0	0	0	0	34	6	0	0	0	0
Italy, Tuscany	4	0	7	25	28	0	0	0	0	0	0	32	8	0	0	0	0
Italy, South	5	0	8	32	17	0	0	0	0	0	0	27	13	0	1	0	0
Sicily	5	0	9	32	18	0	0	0	0	0	0	27	12	0	1	0	0
Ashkenazy	?	1	7	39	16	0	1	0	0	0	0	24	15	0	1	0	0

The most interesting thing here, if it comes to Italians, is that Baloch is rising the farther South we go. From 6 in North to 9 in Sicily. There were two sources of Baloch in the past, one was Indo European/ Steppe invasion, second one South Caucasus populations, like Iranian Farmer, CHG, and by Bronze Age infiltrated to Anatolia/Syria area. If the heightened Baloch in South Italy came from Steppe, then we would also see heightened NE Euro, but we don't. NE Euro drops by half but Baloch goes up by 50%. Steppe can be responsible for 2-3% of Baloch in South by not for 9%. It means that someone else brought additional 5-6% of Baloch. Source population needed to have substantial Baloch and Caucasian, and also some SW Asian and Med, and very low NE Euro. Unfortunately we don't have enough ancient samples in GedMatch to find close match for them, but I'm guessing this area will be around Bronze Age Central/East Anatolia and Syria.
Well, Bronze Age migration of Trojans and alike from Anatolia might be revisited. Or possibly, Bronze Age migration and trade by Sea was much bigger than we expected and centered on Near East. The Minoans and their cousins to the East?

The only difference between NW and NE is the Med part...........Genoa area is more open to the Med than the Venice enclosed adriatic sea

 

[Fire Haired14]

Unfortunately we don't have enough ancient samples in GedMatch to find close match for them, but I'm guessing this area will be around Bronze Age Central/East Anatolia and Syria.
Well, Bronze Age migration of Trojans and alike from Anatolia might be revisited. Or possibly, Bronze Age migration and trade by Sea was much bigger than we expected and centered on Near East. The Minoans and their cousins to the East?

My guess is it came from North of the Levant because our Iron age(This one is from Roman Britain) and Bronze age Levant genomes have less Iran Neo/CHG than modern Levanties(including the non European side of Ashkenazi Jews). My guess is a more Iran Neo/CHG source is needed for Southern Europe. BTw, a Neolithic Iranian had J2b*, J2b2 is consider Balkan and J2b1 Indian.

 

[LeBrok]

My guess is it came from North of the Levant because our Iron age(This one is from Roman Britain) and Bronze age Levant genomes have less Iran Neo/CHG than modern Levanties(including the non European side of Ashkenazi Jews). My guess is a more Iran Neo/CHG source is needed for Southern Europe. BTw, a Neolithic Iranian had J2b*, J2b2 is consider Balkan and J2b1 Indian.

Generally yes, but it can't be Iron Age movement. If it were, ancient Greeks would have noticed and written about this.

 

[LeBrok]

Now I added Sardinians and Turks from Istanbul. Sardinians look like true EEF with a bit of Steppe in them. One surprise is that they don't carry any Baloch. Sardinia didn't go through Bronze age changes rest of Italy did.
Istanbul's Med is low, which is very surprising for part of Turkey by Mediteranean sea, SW low too. Very high Caucasian and Baloch points to very strong genetic push from Armenia/Georgia region into whole Anatolia, some time ago. This could have pushed previous occupants of Anatolia into Balkans/ Italy, possibly by means of the sea?

Europeans	# of samples	S-Indian	Baloch	Caucasian	NE-Euro	SE-Asian	Siberian	NE-Asian	Papuan	American	Beringian	Mediterranean	SW-Asian	San	E-African	Pygmy	W-African
Poland	LeBrok	1	7	10	57	1	1	0	0	0	0	22	1	0	0	0	0
Netherlands	Northerner	0	9	6	55	0	0	0	1	0	0	29	0	0	0	0	0
Albania	Dibran	0	5	30	27	0	0	0	0	0	0	30	8	0	0	0	0
Italy, NE	7	0	7	20	34	0	0	0	0	0	0	31	6	0	0	0	0
Italy, NW	5	0	6	20	33	0	0	0	0	0	0	34	6	0	0	0	0
Italy, Tuscany	4	0	7	25	28	0	0	0	0	0	0	32	8	0	0	0	0
Italy, South	5	0	8	32	17	0	0	0	0	0	0	27	13	0	1	0	0
Sicily	5	0	9	32	18	0	0	0	0	0	0	27	12	0	1	0	0
Sardinia	2	0	0	23	17	0	0	0	0	0	0	48	11	0	0	0	0
Ashkenazy	?	1	7	39	16	0	1	0	0	0	0	24	15	0	1	0	0
turk-istanbul	?	1	16	45	11	1	3	3	0	0	1	11	9	0	0	0	0

 

[LeBrok]

This is Boreas' run.

Population	S-Indian	Baloch	Caucasian	NE-Euro	SE-Asian	Siberian	NE-Asian	Papuan	American	Beringian	Mediterranean	SW-Asian	San	E-African	Pygmy	W-African
Boreas	3	11	29	22		6	3				19	7
turk	1%	16%	47%	9%	0%	4%	2%	0%	1%	1%	10%	10%	0%	0%	0%	0%
turk-aydin	1%	12%	38%	14%	0%	6%	4%	0%	0%	1%	14%	9%	0%	0%	0%	0%
turk-istanbul	1%	16%	45%	11%	1%	3%	3%	0%	0%	1%	11%	9%	0%	0%	0%	0%
turk-kayseri	1%	15%	45%	8%	1%	4%	2%	0%	0%	1%	11%	10%	0%	0%	0%	0%
turkish	2%	17%	40%	9%	1%	4%	2%	1%	1%	1%	11%	11%	1%	1%	0%	0%
turkmen	5%	26%	30%	10%	1%	7%	8%	0%	1%	1%	4%	7%	0%	0%	0%	0%

To me it looks like almost half of it comes from South Europe giving strong Euro and Med. Other almost half is local Anatolia/Caucasus, giving strong Caucasian. And about 10% of Turkic DNA, Siberian and NE Asian.
Interesting that your Siberian and NE Asian are in similar proportions to each other as Tuvinian/Tuvan Turks of Central Asia, though in 10 times smaller amount.

 

[Sile]

This is Boreas' run.

Population

S-Indian

Baloch

Caucasian

NE-Euro

SE-Asian

Siberian

NE-Asian

Papuan

American

Beringian

Mediterranean

SW-Asian

San

E-African

Pygmy

W-African

Boreas

2.78

11.05

29.17

21.96

5.56

2.78

18.64

6.72

To me it looks like almost half of it comes from South Europe giving strong Euro and Med. Other almost half is local Anatolia/Caucasus, giving strong Caucasian. And about 10% of Turkic DNA, Siberian and NE Asian.
Interesting that your Siberian and NE Asian are in similar proportions to each other as Tuvinian/Tuvan Turks of Central Asia, though in 10 times smaller amount.

He looks like a pre-turk , ie a Anatolian before the turks moved in around 1100AD

 

[Pax Augusta]

He looks like a pre-turk , ie a Anatolian before the turks moved in around 1100AD

He has 5.56 Siberian though. Likely some Balkan/Slav admixture as well I think.

 

[LeBrok]

Added Greeks from mainland, islands and Cyprus. Though I'm not sure if from Cyprus are greeks or turks, so I named them Cyprus only.

Europeans	# of samples	S-Indian	Baloch	Caucasian	NE-Euro	SE-Asian	Siberian	NE-Asian	Papuan	American	Beringian	Mediterranean	SW-Asian	San	E-African	Pygmy	W-African
Poland	LeBrok	1	7	10	57	1	1	0	0	0	0	22	1	0	0	0	0
Netherlands	Northerner	0	9	6	55	0	0	0	1	0	0	29	0	0	0	0	0
Albania	Dibran	0	5	30	27	0	0	0	0	0	0	30	8	0	0	0	0
Italy, NE	7	0	7	20	34	0	0	0	0	0	0	31	6	0	0	0	0
Italy, NW	5	0	6	20	33	0	0	0	0	0	0	34	6	0	0	0	0
Italy, Tuscany	4	0	7	25	28	0	0	0	0	0	0	32	8	0	0	0	0
Italy, South	5	0	8	32	17	0	0	0	0	0	0	27	13	0	1	0	0
Sicily	5	0	9	32	18	0	0	0	0	0	0	27	12	0	1	0	0
Sardinia	2	0	0	23	17	0	0	0	0	0	0	48	11	0	0	0	0
Greek, mainland	3	0	6	32	25	0	0	0	0	0	0	26	11	0	0	0	0
Greek, Islands, East	5	0	9	38	14	0	0	1	0	0	0	23	14	0	0	0	0
Cyprus	4	1	10	44	6	1	0	0	0	0	0	20	17	0	0	0	0
Ashkenazy	?	1	7	39	16	0	1	0	0	0	0	24	15	0	1	0	0
turk-istanbul	?	1	16	45	11	1	3	3	0	0	1	11	9	0	0	0	0

 

[New Englander]

So the average South Italian has about 1 point higher SW Asian than Sicilians, and 1 point lower NE Euro and Balouch? I would have thought the opposite.

Also, both groups have a large range on the Caucasian component, usually the higher meaning a bit less Mediterranean and SW Asian. So is SW Asian associated with Mediterranean more so than Caucasian? Less Caucasian also means more NE European it seems.

 

[Pax Augusta]

So the average South Italian has about 1 point higher SW Asian than Sicilians, and 1 point lower NE Euro and Balouch? I would have thought the opposite.

There is a huge diversification in both Sicilians and South Italians. They can both range from Italian_Abruzzo to Southern_Italian (based on Calabria). I wouldn't focus too much on the difference of one point, but I would look more to the general trend.

Also, both groups have a large range on the Caucasian component, usually the higher meaning a bit less Mediterranean and SW Asian. So is SW Asian associated with Mediterranean more so than Caucasian? Less Caucasian also means more NE European it seems.

I don't know if less Caucasian means more NE European. For example Bulgarians and Romanians can have both relatively high Caucasian and NE European.

 

[LeBrok]

So the average South Italian has about 1 point higher SW Asian than Sicilians, and 1 point lower NE Euro and Balouch? I would have thought the opposite.

I thought so too, that the farther south you go the more EEF Neolithic Farmer population you find. It means higher Med, SW and Caucasian. Especially Med grew with time in European Farmers, while SW and Caucasian declined. Med was the highest in Europe by Copper Age.

Also, both groups have a large range on the Caucasian component, usually the higher meaning a bit less Mediterranean and SW Asian.

This means population change. I think about immigration of about 25% of new population. Bronze Age Anatolia/North Syria/Armenia would fit the bill for source of Caucasian and Baloch.

So is SW Asian associated with Mediterranean more so than Caucasian? Less Caucasian also means more NE European it seems.

IE invasion from North would definitely increased NE Euro and lower Caucasian. Increased SW Asian is harder to explain. Perhaps these Bronze Age Anatolians were rich in SW Asian. All Anatolian samples that I've seen have low SW component. Or it came separately later via phoenicians and other Near Eastern traders or conquerors like Arabs.
Actually, a good proxy for these Bronze Age migrants is Cyprus. They have all the right components.

 

[New Englander]

"I don't know if less Caucasian means more NE European. For example Bulgarians and Romanians can have both relatively high Caucasian and NE European."

Well Im speaking for South Italians and Sicilians specifically.