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In most cases there was just changing religion and automaticaly becoming "Turks" or Ottomans.Even today people that are Muslims but speaking Slavic languages consider themselves Turks in regions of Bulgaria,Macedonia etc,most of them don't know a word in Turkish unless they learn it in school,even prior dissolution of ottoman empire(I guess Boreas ancestors immigrated in that period of time) they learned it uppon imigrating into Turkey.Religion=ethnicity in the old system.I wonder what is with Boreas family,whether they were Turks or islamized locals?Boreas, given that half your ancestry is from Bulgaria, is there any possibility that there was some intermarriage while your ancestors were there? That could possibly explain it, yes?
What do you mean?Everybody says Turks are mixed people but that guy from Istanbul is more pure then rest of Italian except Sardinians
Check my post 232.I could easily understand, if in the all Italian's results first 5-10 population groups were again from Italia and after that Askhenazy Jews samples were as number 11-13 in South Italians results and Spanish-French samples were at 12-15 in North Italian results.
Samples from Greece are interesting. It is possible that all Greece was like Cyprus before IE Greeks invasion. We just need to subtract 6 points of NE Euro.
Greek east islands are not too much different, they just have more NE Euro, which dilutes other components. This must be close to state of Greek population before Slavic invasion.
Greek mainland, original occupants of mid Bronze Age + IE Greeks + Slavs.
Europeans # of samples S-Indian Baloch Caucasian NE-Euro SE-Asian Siberian NE-Asian Papuan American Beringian Mediterranean SW-Asian San E-African Pygmy W-African Greek, mainland 3 0 6 32 25 0 0 0 0 0 0 26 11 0 0 0 0 Greek, Islands, East 5 0 9 38 14 0 0 1 0 0 0 23 14 0 0 0 0 Cyprus 4 1 10 44 6 1 0 0 0 0 0 20 17 0 0 0 0
I would guess that IE Greeks invaders were something like Bronze Age Hungarian. Roughly we would need 1 IE invader to 3-4 locals to make Cypriots look like Greek islanders.
BR1 Hungary Population S-Indian - Baloch 3.15 Caucasian 14.73 NE-Euro 46.18 SE-Asian 0.2 Siberian - NE-Asian - Papuan 0.18 American - Beringian - Mediterranean 31.73 SW-Asian 3.33 San - E-African - Pygmy - W-African 0.48
Good call. I've seen some formal stats for Italians that show the best "mixing" population is indeed Bronze Age Hungarian. (If I mis-remembered that, Fire-Haired can correct it.)
Fwiw, Copper Age Otzi had the same amount of SWAsian as modern Tuscans (about 9-10%, I think). Now, obviously there were genetic changes after that, but it's unlikely, in my opinion, that it was totally wiped out and then totally replaced.
The thing about Egyptians, which, if my memory serves, was often said about Crete, has been proved incorrect by ancient dna.
This is the population that first hit Crete, perhaps a population that originated in southern Anatolia. Ancient dna should tell us more.
Greek Islanders as always are the most similar of South Italians and Sicilians, but with some differences: we score 6 point less of Caucasian, 3/4 point more of North East European and 1/2 point less of SW Asian. I really like to see Asia Minor Greeks, Egyptian Greeks and Antiochian Greeks' results, they mostly live in mainland Greece nowadays afaik.
Regarding the slight differences of South Italians and Sicilians on average, it has to do with the samples selected and the calculator, the Italian website Ethnopedia use Eutest and the slight difference is 1 point more of Middle East for Sicilians and one point more of East Med for South Italians on average, and 0.5/0.7 point of more African for Sicilians.
1 Cretan ( ) 5.93 2 Greek_Smyrna ( ) 5.99 3 Cypriot ( ) 6.49 4 Azov_Greek ( ) 7.15 5 Syrian_Jew ( ) 8.03 6 Greek_Islands ( ) 8.05 7 Greek ( ) 8.41 8 Greek_Macedonia ( ) 8.43 9 Greek_Athens ( ) 9.11
S-Indian 0.11 Baloch 11.30 Caucasian 46.20 NE-Euro 8.85 SE-Asian - Siberian 0.61 NE-Asian - Papuan 0.16 American - Beringian 0.23 Mediterranean 19.89 SW-Asian 12.64
Boreas, given that half your ancestry is from Bulgaria, is there any possibility that there was some intermarriage while your ancestors were there? That could possibly explain it, yes?
In most cases there was just changing religion and automaticaly becoming "Turks" or Ottomans.Even today people that are Muslims but speaking Slavic languages consider themselves Turks in regions of Bulgaria,Macedonia etc,most of them don't know a word in Turkish unless they learn it in school,even prior dissolution of ottoman empire(I guess Boreas ancestors immigrated in that period of time) they learned it uppon imigrating into Turkey.Religion=ethnicity in the old system.I wonder what is with Boreas family,whether they were Turks or islamized locals?
I mean Turk-İstanbul sample high Caucausian rate but none of Italian has that much high results in any group(expect Sardinian Med rate)What do you mean?
Hi all!
I thought that maybe my results would be somehow useful, since I am 100% Cappadocian Greek.
Yep, not bad at all. You just have a tiny bit more EEF in you, which gives more Med and Caucasian and less NE Euro (EHG).
That's amazing, thanks for sharing! You are like Cypriot, the suspected proxy for Early/Mid Bronze Age population of Greece and Anatolia, just with less SW Asian. Additional SW Asian could have been brought to Cyprus by Phoenicians, or more from original inhabitants, first farmers of Cyprus.Hi all!
I thought that maybe my results would be somehow useful, since I am 100% Cappadocian Greek. I would agree with Lebrok, that maybe the Greek DNA before the IE and the Slavic migration (and the Arvanite during the middle ages I would add) would be kind of similar with the Cypriots' DNA. Cretans are not to so far either, and I would add them to the discussion too.
The bad thing with this Harappa calculator is that does not include Greek samples. Even though that I have some distance, my closest matches on other calcs (MDLP has relevant many samples) are the Cretans, the Cypriots and the islanders (and of course the other Asia Minor Greeks). For example:
So, in harappa, my results are the following:
Having in mind that my genetic make up lacks slavobalkan admixture and probably is to lower degree exposed to the IE, I think that the Pre/ProtoGreeks were kind of similar to me. Most likely Anatolia, Greek peninsula, Crete, Islands Cyprus and maybe Northern Levant were inhabited by populations with the same genetic characteristics.
I've compiled changes in Anatolia, from EN to today. First two samples are from EN one from West Turkey and one from Central South. They are very close to European EEF, EEF has a bit more WHG in them. There is one Chalcolithic, showing influence of Caucasus and Steppe during Late Neolithic. Forth is from our member Sakatack, very likely like Greek Cappadocia (central Turkey). Chalcolithic Anatolia and Sakattack (Cappadocia) is very close to today's Cyprus genome. (in previous posts).That's amazing, thanks for sharing! You are like Cypriot, the suspecting proxy for Early/Mid Bronze Age population of Greece and Anatolia, just with less SW Asian. Additional SW Asian could have been brought to Cyprus by Phoenicians, or more from original inhabitants, first farmers of Cyprus.
I'm expecting to see in Copper/Early/Mid Bronze age, replacement or very heavily mixed of population of Anatolia and Greece, with newcomers from East Anatolia/Armenia/and some Steppe mix. This could have been carried farther to Italy and Sicily by Greeks, and Cretans and other islanders before them.
Other explanation for your extreme likeness to Cypriots is that your ancestors Greeks emigrated to Central Anatolia not long ago and didn't mix much with local population. Some population movement within Turkish Empire, forced resettlement?
M897077 | M830273 Tep003 | M091434 I1584 | ||||||||
Anatolian EF | Barcin | Anatolia Early Neolithic [7174 BC] | Anatolian Chalcolithic | Sakattack | ||||||
Population | Population | Population | Population | |||||||
S-Indian | - | S-Indian | - | S-Indian | - | S-Indian | 0.11 | |||
Baloch | - | Baloch | - | Baloch | 9.14 | Baloch | 11.3 | |||
Caucasian | 37.64 | Caucasian | 48.07 | Caucasian | 48.14 | Caucasian | 46.2 | |||
NE-Euro | 0.86 | NE-Euro | 3.95 | NE-Euro | 6.45 | NE-Euro | 8.85 | |||
SE-Asian | - | SE-Asian | - | SE-Asian | - | SE-Asian | ||||
Siberian | - | Siberian | - | Siberian | 0.16 | Siberian | 0.61 | |||
NE-Asian | - | NE-Asian | - | NE-Asian | - | NE-Asian | ||||
Papuan | - | Papuan | - | Papuan | - | Papuan | 0.16 | |||
American | - | American | - | American | - | American | ||||
Beringian | - | Beringian | - | Beringian | - | Beringian | 0.23 | |||
Mediterranean | 47.24 | Mediterranean | 34.67 | Mediterranean | 26.7 | Mediterranean | 19.89 | |||
SW-Asian | 14.00 | SW-Asian | 13.19 | SW-Asian | 9.27 | SW-Asian | 12.64 | |||
San | - | San | - | San | - | San | ||||
E-African | - | E-African | - | E-African | - | E-African | ||||
Pygmy | - | Pygmy | - | Pygmy | - | Pygmy | ||||
W-African | 0.27 | 0.13 | W-African | W-African |
Turkey | Population | S-Indian | Baloch | Caucasian | NE-Euro | SE-Asian | Siberian | NE-Asian | Papuan | American | Beringian | Mediterranean | SW-Asian | San | E-African | Pygmy | W-African |
1 | turk | 1 | 15.71 | 46.74 | 8.9 | 0.33 | 3.66 | 2.36 | 0.29 | 0.52 | 0.67 | 9.83 | 9.72 | 0.07 | 0.11 | 0.04 | 0.07 |
2 | turk-aydin | 0.86 | 11.66 | 38.15 | 14.31 | 0.35 | 6.04 | 3.98 | 0.46 | 0.48 | 0.68 | 13.63 | 8.64 | 0.09 | 0.25 | 0.02 | 0.4 |
3 | turk-istanbul | 1.13 | 15.51 | 45.12 | 10.68 | 0.53 | 3.04 | 3.09 | 0.38 | 0.21 | 0.71 | 10.66 | 8.72 | 0.05 | 0.11 | 0.05 | 0.01 |
4 | turk-kayseri | 0.82 | 15.41 | 45.47 | 8.48 | 0.69 | 3.55 | 2.3 | 0.41 | 0.34 | 0.79 | 11.13 | 10.48 | 0.03 | 0.05 | 0.02 | 0.03 |
That's amazing, thanks for sharing! You are like Cypriot, the suspecting proxy for Early/Mid Bronze Age population of Greece and Anatolia, just with less SW Asian. Additional SW Asian could have been brought to Cyprus by Phoenicians, or more from original inhabitants, first farmers of Cyprus.
I'm expecting to see in Copper/Early/Mid Bronze age, replacement or very heavily mixed of population of Anatolia and Greece, with newcomers from East Anatolia/Armenia/and some Steppe mix. This could have been carried farther to Italy and Sicily by Greeks, and Cretans and other islanders before them.
Other explanation for your extreme likeness to Cypriots is that your ancestors Greeks emigrated to Central Anatolia not long ago and didn't mix much with local population. Some population movement within Turkish Empire, forced resettlement?
I don't like this Global 10. How can one be sure that EEF farmer part or WHG part of our genome is from Nordic LN or Corded Ware or Unetice genome? Especially when they are all contemporaries carrying same or almost same alleles.There are lies and statistics hahahah
According to this no Unetice at all!
David from Eurogenes/Gedmatch:
Based on the Global 10 datasheet, which has more Nordic LN samples than the K7 sheet, this is how you come out:
Nordic_LN 64.2
Bell_Beaker_Germany 35.8
Corded_Ware_Germany 0.0
Unetice_EBA 0.0
Any thoughts about this LeBrok?
Corded Ware, Germany | Nordic LN, Rise 71 | M671253 | ||
Population | Population | |||
S-Indian | 0.24 | S-Indian | - | |
Baloch | 7.51 | Baloch | 9.29 | |
Caucasian | 8 | Caucasian | 10.55 | |
NE-Euro | 47.75 | NE-Euro | 51.89 | |
SE-Asian | - | SE-Asian | - | |
Siberian | 0.71 | Siberian | - | |
NE-Asian | - | NE-Asian | - | |
Papuan | 0.97 | Papuan | - | |
American | - | American | - | |
Beringian | 0.08 | Beringian | - | |
Mediterranean | 31.31 | Mediterranean | 27.34 | |
SW-Asian | 3.25 | SW-Asian | - | |
San | - | San | 0.22 | |
E-African | - | E-African | - | |
Pygmy | - | Pygmy | - | |
W-African | 0.18 | W-African | 0.7 |
Correct he stated that these separations aren't easy to make....I don't like this Global 10. How can one be sure that EEF farmer part of WHG part of our genome is from Nordic LN or Corded Ware of Unetice genome? Especially when they are all contemporaries carrying same or almost same alleles.
Nordic LN Rise 71 is similar to Corded Ware guys.
Corded Ware, Germany Nordic LN, Rise 71 M671253 Population Population S-Indian 0.24 S-Indian - Baloch 7.51 Baloch 9.29 Caucasian 8 Caucasian 10.55 NE-Euro 47.75 NE-Euro 51.89 SE-Asian - SE-Asian - Siberian 0.71 Siberian - NE-Asian - NE-Asian - Papuan 0.97 Papuan - American - American - Beringian 0.08 Beringian - Mediterranean 31.31 Mediterranean 27.34 SW-Asian 3.25 SW-Asian - San - San 0.22 E-African - E-African - Pygmy - Pygmy - W-African 0.18 W-African 0.7
# | Population | Percent |
1 | Mediterranean | 52.24 |
2 | NE-Euro | 21 |
3 | Caucasian | 12.73 |
4 | SW-Asian | 10.38 |
5 | W-African | 1.95 |
6 | SE-Asian | 1.54 |
7 | Pygmy | 0.16 |
# | Population (source) | Distance |
1 | sardinian (hgdp) | 13.6 |
2 | spaniard (1000genomes) | 13.98 |
3 | spaniard (behar) | 15.01 |
4 | italian (hgdp) | 19.26 |
5 | spain-basc (henn2012) | 19.41 |
6 | basque (hgdp) | 20.01 |
7 | tuscan (hapmap) | 23.73 |
8 | tuscan (hgdp) | 24.36 |
9 | tuscan (1000genomes) | 24.84 |
10 | puerto-rican (1000genomes) | 24.88 |
11 | french (hgdp) | 26.92 |
12 | morocco-n (henn2012) | 29.47 |
13 | tunisia (henn2012) | 30.24 |
14 | puerto-rican (bryc) | 33 |
15 | ashkenazi (harappa) | 33.1 |
16 | morocco-jew (behar) | 33.24 |
17 | romanian-a (behar) | 33.52 |
18 | algeria (henn2012) | 33.53 |
19 | ashkenazy-jew (behar) | 33.94 |
20 | bulgarian (yunusbayev) | 34.35 |
2 | 85.30% | sardinian (hgdp) | + | 14.70% | finnish (1000genomes) | @ | 6.15 | |
4 | 83.30% | sardinian (hgdp) | + | 16.70% | lithuanian (behar) | @ | 6.73 | |
17 | 82.90% | sardinian (hgdp) | + | 17.10% | chuvash (behar) | @ | 7.83 | |
7 | 82.60% | sardinian (hgdp) | + | 17.40% | russian (hgdp) | @ | 6.79 | |
14 | 82.60% | sardinian (hgdp) | + | 17.40% | russian (behar) | @ | 7.41 | |
12 | 82.20% | sardinian (hgdp) | + | 17.80% | mordovian (yunusbayev) | @ | 7.16 | |
11 | 81.90% | sardinian (hgdp) | + | 18.10% | belorussian (behar) | @ | 7.05 | |
13 | 80.60% | sardinian (hgdp) | + | 19.40% | ukranian (yunusbayev) | @ | 7.27 | |
15 | 77.50% | sardinian (hgdp) | + | 22.50% | slovenian (xing) | @ | 7.46 | |
16 | 76.60% | sardinian (hgdp) | + | 23.40% | hungarian (behar) | @ | 7.52 | |
5 | 76.40% | sardinian (hgdp) | + | 23.60% | orcadian (hgdp) | @ | 6.76 | |
6 | 76% | sardinian (hgdp) | + | 24% | utahn-white (hapmap) | @ | 6.77 | |
3 | 75.80% | sardinian (hgdp) | + | 24.20% | n-european (xing) | @ | 6.7 | |
8 | 75.10% | sardinian (hgdp) | + | 24.90% | british (1000genomes) | @ | 6.84 | |
9 | 75% | sardinian (hgdp) | + | 25% | utahn-white (1000genomes) | @ | 6.84 | |
10 | 69% | sardinian (hgdp) | + | 31% | french (hgdp) | @ | 6.93 | |
20 | 64.20% | basque (hgdp) | + | 35.80% | morocco-jew (behar) | @ | 9.18 | |
18 | 62.80% | sardinian (hgdp) | + | 37.20% | spain-basc (henn2012) | @ | 9.03 | |
19 | 62.60% | sardinian (hgdp) | + | 37.40% | italian (hgdp) | @ | 9.04 | |
1 | 50.90% | sardinian (hgdp) | + | 49.10% | spaniard (1000genomes) | @ | 5.84 |
All the remendello samples are similar
[h=2]HarappaWorld Oracle results:[/h]23 April 2013 - Oracle reference population percentages revised.
Kit T319214
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent 1 Mediterranean 52.24 2 NE-Euro 21 3 Caucasian 12.73 4 SW-Asian 10.38 5 W-African 1.95 6 SE-Asian 1.54 7 Pygmy 0.16
No Baloch like the Sardinians but higher NE-Euro component than Sardinians.
Harappaworld NE-Euro = from finland to mordovia
The issue is the high SW-Asian , which equals the arabian peninsula and the sinai in harrappaworld
Give these Northern-Italians a try
Remedello RISE487 (3483-3107 BC) - Y-DNA I2a1a1 - GEDmatch kit T699825
Remedello RISE489 (2908-2578 BC) - Y-DNA I2a1a1a - GEDmatch kit T135721
Remedello RISE486 (2134-1773 BC) - Y-DNA I2a1a1a - GEDmatch kit T319214
Can't find Otzi either. Here are the Remedellos:LeBrok, as per some earlier questions...
These are the Remedello samples:
GedMatch Number: T699825, T319214, T135721
I still haven't found the gedmatch number for Otzi.
T699825 | 4.07 | T135721 | 5.32 | T319214 | 4.66 | Remedello Average | ||||
Remedello RISE487 (3483-3107 BC) - Y-DNA I2a1a1 | Remedello RISE489 (2908-2578 BC) - Y-DNA I2a1a1a | Remedello RISE486 (2134-1773 BC) - Y-DNA I2a1a1a | ||||||||
Population | Population | Population | Population | |||||||
S-Indian | 0 | S-Indian | 0 | S-Indian | 0 | S-Indian | - | |||
Baloch | 0 | Baloch | 0 | Baloch | 0 | Baloch | - | |||
Caucasian | 9.8 | Caucasian | 10.56 | Caucasian | 12.73 | Caucasian | 11.03 | |||
NE-Euro | 23.46 | NE-Euro | 19.3 | NE-Euro | 21 | NE-Euro | 21.25 | |||
SE-Asian | 0.28 | SE-Asian | 0 | SE-Asian | 1.54 | SE-Asian | 0.61 | |||
Siberian | 0 | Siberian | 0 | Siberian | 0 | Siberian | - | |||
NE-Asian | 0 | NE-Asian | 0 | NE-Asian | 0 | NE-Asian | - | |||
Papuan | 0 | Papuan | 0 | Papuan | 0 | Papuan | - | |||
American | 0 | American | 0 | American | 0 | American | - | |||
Beringian | 0 | Beringian | 0 | Beringian | 0 | Beringian | - | |||
Mediterranean | 65.64 | Mediterranean | 63.94 | Mediterranean | 52.24 | Mediterranean | 60.61 | |||
SW-Asian | 0 | SW-Asian | 6.11 | SW-Asian | 10.38 | SW-Asian | 5.50 | |||
San | 0 | San | 0 | San | 0 | San | - | |||
E-African | 0 | E-African | 0 | E-African | 0 | E-African | - | |||
Pygmy | 0 | Pygmy | 0.09 | Pygmy | 0.16 | Pygmy | 0.08 | |||
W-African | 0.8 | W-African | 0 | W-African | 1.95 | W-African | 0.92 |
EN | EN | MN | LN | LN | |||||||||
Stuttgart | NE1 Hungary | NE7 Hungary | CO1 Hungary | CA Iberia, ATP2, M849224 | |||||||||
Population | Population | Population | Population | Population | |||||||||
S-Indian | - | S-Indian | - | S-Indian | - | S-Indian | - | S-Indian | - | ||||
Baloch | - | Baloch | - | Baloch | - | Baloch | - | Baloch | - | ||||
Caucasian | 30.6 | Caucasian | 28.27 | Caucasian | 19.04 | Caucasian | 19.26 | Caucasian | 4.19 | ||||
NE-Euro | 7.82 | NE-Euro | 12.13 | NE-Euro | 16.69 | NE-Euro | 16.74 | NE-Euro | 24.19 | ||||
SE-Asian | - | SE-Asian | - | SE-Asian | - | SE-Asian | - | SE-Asian | 0.23 | ||||
Siberian | - | Siberian | - | Siberian | - | Siberian | - | Siberian | - | ||||
NE-Asian | - | NE-Asian | - | NE-Asian | - | NE-Asian | - | NE-Asian | - | ||||
Papuan | - | Papuan | - | Papuan | - | Papuan | - | Papuan | 0.23 | ||||
American | - | American | - | American | - | American | - | American | - | ||||
Beringian | - | Beringian | - | Beringian | - | Beringian | - | Beringian | - | ||||
Mediterranean | 49.46 | Mediterranean | 45.75 | Mediterranean | 56.18 | Mediterranean | 55.37 | Mediterranean | 63.33 | ||||
SW-Asian | 12.01 | SW-Asian | 13.45 | SW-Asian | 7.96 | SW-Asian | 8.52 | SW-Asian | 5.14 | ||||
San | 0.11 | San | - | San | - | San | - | San | - | ||||
E-African | - | E-African | - | E-African | - | E-African | - | E-African | - | ||||
Pygmy | - | Pygmy | 0.05 | Pygmy | - | Pygmy | - | Pygmy | - | ||||
W-African | - | W-African | 0.35 | W-African | 0.11 | W-African | 0.1 | W-African | 2.69 |
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