I2a-Din came to the Balkans and Dinaric Alps with the Thracians, Dacians & Illyrians

[Tomenable]

Not during P-L Commonwealth. Everybody was preoccupied how to keep a country of many religions and ethnicities together.

The biggest multicultural experiment in European history until modern Sweden?

 

[Garrick]

I1-M253 all over Iron Age Poland:

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...lish-DNA/page3?p=513761&viewfull=1#post513761

Subclade I-L1237 on YFull: https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-L1237/

The basal lineage of this subclade, I-L1237*, can be found here:

So Jordanes was right - the Goths had originated from Sweden?

R1b actually originated from Russia, Yamnaya culture.

I2a has more western (WHG) origins than R1b (EHG).

Your information are actual and valuable.

For Goths it is expected for me.

For I2a, we speak about it, this rounds are important for everyone.

WHG: I2a; EHG: I2b and I2c; SHG: I2a and I2c

 

[Kingslav]

The biggest multicultural experiment in European history until modern Sweden?

I dont understand what this has to do I2A-DIN? It is clear "SZLACHTA" would not talk about homeland with this negative tone, in some attempt to draw comparison with "western Sweden" where "group assaults" taking place on nightly basis to put lightly. It is clear now what peasant class you belong. People often mistake about Poles with 40 million plus 20 million abroad 60 million Poles total, that we are all same, not true when different family had different responsibility in Polish Commonwealth a large vast land. No surprise to me when Albanians and other groups sense this non-unity among Poles and feed off it and try bash us, I dont blame them they know how to stand united at very least. People like you are giving them this ammunition. If you not satisfied with Polish Commonwealth legacy, than cross border to western side, I heard "Merkel" is taking new application everyday.

 

[Kingslav]

Can you elaborate more on your theory of I2A-DIN emerging from Polesian swamp marshes? The 1 you posted earlier anthrogenica.com with hand-drawn map lol very intriguing theory also second part of my question is how did Rusyns (my ancestors) descend from Vlachs if there was no Vlachs in medieval Poland according to your observations? Thanks- Kingslav

Can we get back on topic of I2A-DIN now?

This 2 questions Im really trying get out of Tomenable. So far he has chose to go "mute" since I dismissed his last theory.

 

[Kingslav]

I dont understand what this has to do I2A-DIN? It is clear "SZLACHTA" would not talk about homeland with this negative tone, in some attempt to draw comparison with "western Sweden" where "group assaults" taking place on nightly basis to put lightly. It is clear now what peasant class you belong. People often mistake about Poles with 40 million plus 20 million abroad 60 million Poles total, that we are all same, not true when different family had different responsibility in Polish Commonwealth a large vast land. No surprise to me when Albanians and other groups sense this non-unity among Poles and feed off it and try bash us, I dont blame them they know how to stand united at very least. People like you are giving them this ammunition. If you not satisfied with Polish Commonwealth legacy, than cross border to western side, I heard "Merkel" is taking new application everyday.

@Lebrok I noticed you issued me infraction for my above post. Can you explain what part of paragraph you deemed as punishable? Just looking for clarification thats all. Thanks- Kingslav

 

[Fire Haired14]

What means didnt have nationalism? We always had nationalism. 1945, 1991, 966 or any others you can imagine. We have complex government that is different from western democracy for long time. I fail to see how that is not nationalism? - FireHaired14

I got the impression that you think Eastern Europe should be united as one people.

 

[Kingslav]

I got the impression that you think Eastern Europe should be united as one people.

I got impression that this sneak attempt to bash Slavs specifically, Poles, and "Pro-America statement". I am here to discuss I2A-DIN. The last thing you mention on topic if I remember correctly, was some sort of comparison of Ukrainians with British-German-Swedish groups. Comedy.

 

[LeBrok]

@Lebrok I noticed you issued me infraction for my above post. Can you explain what part of paragraph you deemed as punishable? Just looking for clarification thats all. Thanks- Kingslav

Intent of your post is punishable.

 

[LeBrok]

I got impression that this sneak attempt to bash Slavs specifically, Poles, and "Pro-America statement". I am here to discuss I2A-DIN. The last thing you mention on topic if I remember correctly, was some sort of comparison of Ukrainians with British-German-Swedish groups. Comedy.

Nah, I don't think you are here to discuss anything. You are here to tell us what to think.

 

[Fatherland]

It's good to avoid this discussions of Albanians conquered by I2A-Din. We know very well who was conquered and by whom. Let's respect the decision of LeBrok about this issue. Believe me, it's very painful if we enter in details. So, let's try to make a civilised discussion.

Upvoted your post

Metal shall never die

 

[Fatherland]

It's good to avoid this discussions of Albanians conquered by I2A-Din. We know very well who was conquered and by whom. Let's respect the decision of LeBrok about this issue. Believe me, it's very painful if we enter in details. So, let's try to make a civilised discussion.

 

[Garrick]

R1b-Z2103: Proto-Thracian, later mostly Dacians/Free Dacians, they spread through Balkans, Italy etc. Origin is Southern/Central Russia.

J2b2-L283: Subclade M-241. Thracian, Greek, Macedonian. Origin is probably area present day Turkey (south)/Near East (north).

E1b-L618: About this haplogroup there is a lot on Eupedia. It is frequent in the Balkans, Romania, etc. It can be found in many countries of Europe and some outside of Europe. There is in Dalmatia today. Ancient Greeks, Macedonians, Thracians/Dacians, and many others had this haplogroup. Origin not yet been identified.

 

[Fatherland]

R1b-Z2103: Proto-Thracian, later mostly Dacians/Free Dacians, they spread through Balkans, Italy etc. Origin is Southern/Central Russia.

J2b2-L283: Subclade M-241. Thracian, Greek, Macedonian. Origin is probably area present day Turkey (south)/Near East (north).

E1b-L618: About this haplogroup there is a lot on Eupedia. It is frequent in the Balkans, Romania, etc. It can be found in many countries of Europe and some outside of Europe. There is in Dalmatia today. Ancient Greeks, Macedonians, Thracians/Dacians, and many others had this haplogroup. Origin not yet been identified.

J2b2-L283 is Steppe. Its admixture was typically Steppe, Bronze Age Warriors. None of it is found in Anatolia.

All of those 3 were Illyrian.

Have a good night.

 

[Fustan]

R1b-Z2103: Proto-Thracian, later mostly Dacians/Free Dacians, they spread through Balkans, Italy etc. Origin is Southern/Central Russia.

J2b2-L283: Subclade M-241. Thracian, Greek, Macedonian. Origin is probably area present day Turkey (south)/Near East (north).

E1b-L618: About this haplogroup there is a lot on Eupedia. It is frequent in the Balkans, Romania, etc. It can be found in many countries of Europe and some outside of Europe. There is in Dalmatia today. Ancient Greeks, Macedonians, Thracians/Dacians, and many others had this haplogroup. Origin not yet been identified.

And not a single haplogroup is Illyrian, they just disappeared, poof! The slavic newcomers from 700ad also dissapeared according to you since you claim I2a isnt slavic.

Very interesting thoughts you have Garrick, I must say!

 

[Milan.M]

R1b-Z2103: Proto-Thracian, later mostly Dacians/Free Dacians, they spread through Balkans, Italy etc. Origin is Southern/Central Russia.

J2b2-L283: Subclade M-241. Thracian, Greek, Macedonian. Origin is probably area present day Turkey (south)/Near East (north).

E1b-L618: About this haplogroup there is a lot on Eupedia. It is frequent in the Balkans, Romania, etc. It can be found in many countries of Europe and some outside of Europe. There is in Dalmatia today. Ancient Greeks, Macedonians, Thracians/Dacians, and many others had this haplogroup. Origin not yet been identified.

Garick please..
So far in historical Thracian lands were found

E1b1b1a1b 800 B.C R1a Z93 Merichleri burial mound 1800 B.C

By this time Thracian ethnogenesis were done,all after 1800 B.C can be count as Thracian,because even the mainstream scholars consider Thracians to be formed from indigenous population and multi cordoned culture which lasted from 22nd B.C to exactly 18th B.C when we already found R1a.

R1b you posted is from a culture that was never associated with the Thracians to begin with.However i am not excluding that they "admixed" with this people and carried this haplogroup in minority,but i doubt it was in dominant level or formed the historical Thracians.

 

[Garrick]

J2b2-L283 is Steppe. Its admixture was typically Steppe. None of it is found in Anatolia.

I wrote about origin of J-M241. It is probably area present day Turkey (south)/near East (north), I would like if someone has another opinion. I always try to find for any haplogroup origin.

Yes, individual found in Croatia J2b2-L283 probably came from Russian steppe. Maciamo wrote about it.

 

[Fatherland]

I wrote about origin of J-M241. It is probably area present day Turkey (south)/near East (north), I would like if someone has another opinion. I always try to find for any haplogroup origin.

Yes, individual found in Croatia J2b2-L283 probably came from Russian steppe. Maciamo wrote about it.

You're a hypocrite. We can go further back if you wish and IJ exists then. It all depends what context you want to use. So far no J2b2-L283 found in Anatolia, it's 100% European and only found in Europe.

 

[Garrick]

Garick please..
So far in historical Thracian lands were found

E1b1b1a1b 800 B.C R1a Z93 Merichleri burial mound 1800 B.C

By this time Thracian ethnogenesis were done,all after 1800 B.C can be count as Thracian,because even the mainstream scholars consider Thracians to be formed from indigenous population and multi cordoned culture which lasted from 22nd B.C to exactly 18th B.C when we already found R1a.

R1b you posted is from a culture that was never associated with the Thracians to begin with.However i am not excluding that they "admixed" with this people and carried this haplogroup in minority,but i doubt it was in dominant level or formed the historical Thracians.

If you read carefully I didn't write Thracian but proto-Thracian. Proto-Thracian people developed from mix Neolithic population and invading Indo-Europeans. It was complex process, yes it is very intersting for discussion but not for this thread.

 

[Milan.M]

If you read carefully I didn't write Thracian but proto-Thracian. Proto-Thracian people developed from mix Neolithic population and invading Indo-Europeans. It was complex process, yes it is very intersting for discussion but not for this thread.

Could be a minor lineage but it can not be Proto-Thracian cause it didn't formed the bulk of the population from the sources we have now,and was most probably not associated with speakers of Thracian language.
This R1b is out of historical Thracian lands,Thracians expanded to Panonia and as far Southern Poland,Ukraine,river Dniester and Moldova and elsewhere in Balkans but in bit later times than 2700 B.C when this R1b is found in Croatia.

So please when you write your own theories like Bastarnae were I2a din or something similar,say that that is your own opinion like i do,or quote a scholar if you mention one.

 

[Garrick]

You're a hypocrite. We can go further back if you wish and IJ exists then. It all depends what context you want to use. So far no J2b2-L283 found in Anatolia, it's 100% European and only found in Europe.

No Fatherland. I really didn't think nothing bad. Only spoke about roots what is most interesting for me personally.

If you read carefully I didn't speak about roots of E-V13. It is mysterious. Thread "Where did E-V13 originate" is very interesting.