Vlach haplogroups & deep ancestry?

AlGreen said:
I'm not used with such dialog. You show lack of manners and also a serious lack of historical culture;
I quote from Eupedia:

"J2b1's origins remain unclear, but it probably originated in the South Caucasus and/or Iran and might have spread to the Levant, Cyprus and Greece with the Kura-Araxes culture during the Bronze Age. The branch found in the western Balkans (Y22069) is distinct from the East Mediterranean and Caucasian branch. It seems to have formed 6,000 years ago, but its TMRCA is very young at 900 years before present, suggesting a medieval founder effect."
Observe 900 years TMRCA..
Tape - Tepe in NW Iran is the oldest J2 found to date. Romans defeated Carpathian Dacians twice, at Tape, located North Danube.
About 68 BC Romans encountered in South East Caucasus, around Zagros Mts, kingdoms of Getaru and Lupina. Given such names, origin and language they spoke is obvious. Pompey and Plutarch clearly mention that were "definitely" neither Armenian nor Iranian, were light, in contrast with the populations of the areas and their Rulers had typical Dacian Getae names like Oroezes, Cosis.
Getaru means exactly that - "the Get" and "Lupina" means exactly SheWolf, what the Dacian and Getae worshiped since their inception.
Going back in time, same area, Gati of Zagros are attested to have sacked several times Sumer and Akkadian Empires, between 4500 BC - 3900 BC.
What Culture was in South Caucasus that time? Culture that spread towards India and also arrived in Central Europe around 1800 -1600 BC?
Can talk about this for hours but no time and what for anyway.
If you guys wanna talk Albanians, I'll find you in Albanians thread. Thanks
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Nonsense. That's in regards to J2b1-M205, while Albanian J2b is J2b2a-L283. Please read my post carefully again:

Trojet said:
You liar!! No J2b has been found in Kura Araxes culture to date.
Furthermore, the Albanian J2b is in the J2b-L283 branch, the same version that's found in Bronze Age Croatia (Dalmatia) since ~1600 BCE.
https://j2-m172.info/2018/02/y-snp-...l283-bronze-age-croatia-mathieson-et-al-2018/
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Again, no ancient J2b has been found in Kura Araxes culture as of yet. The writing about J2b1-M205 is simply a theory by Maciamo. Anyways, I think this was just a desperate attempt on your part to cover up your lies.
 
AlGreen said:
I'm not used with such dialog. You show lack of manners and also a serious lack of historical culture;
I quote from Eupedia:

"J2b1's origins remain unclear, but it probably originated in the South Caucasus and/or Iran and might have spread to the Levant, Cyprus and Greece with the Kura-Araxes culture during the Bronze Age. The branch found in the western Balkans (Y22069) is distinct from the East Mediterranean and Caucasian branch. It seems to have formed 6,000 years ago, but its TMRCA is very young at 900 years before present, suggesting a medieval founder effect."
Observe 900 years TMRCA..
Tape - Tepe in NW Iran is the oldest J2 found to date. Romans defeated Carpathian Dacians twice, at Tape, located North Danube.
About 68 BC Romans encountered in South East Caucasus, around Zagros Mts, kingdoms of Getaru and Lupina. Given such names, origin and language they spoke is obvious. Pompey and Plutarch clearly mention that were "definitely" neither Armenian nor Iranian, were light, in contrast with the populations of the areas and their Rulers had typical Dacian Getae names like Oroezes, Cosis.
Getaru means exactly that - "the Get" and "Lupina" means exactly SheWolf, what the Dacian and Getae worshiped since their inception.
Going back in time, same area, Gati of Zagros are attested to have sacked several times Sumer and Akkadian Empires, between 4500 BC - 3900 BC.
What Culture was in South Caucasus that time? Culture that spread towards India and also arrived in Central Europe around 1800 -1600 BC?
Can talk about this for hours but no time and what for anyway.
If you guys wanna talk Albanians, I'll find you in Albanians thread. Thanks
Click to expand...
it is guti of Zargos ...actually Gutians a mix of persians from the south and medes from the north.
.
I agree with your first sentence
 
Sile said:
If vlachs are Dacians, then there where some towns in Dardania and montenegro that where dacian

Quemedava was an ancient Dacian city in Dardania mentioned by Procopius.[1]

procopius mentions 2 other towns as well
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Aside of those, between 273 -318 Romans defeated Dacian Carpi several times and transferred them in large numbers from North Carpathian Mts in Pannonia, NW Balkans and N Italy.
Morlachs (Mauro-Vlachs - North-Vlachs) of the Adriatic Coast were the mountain dwellers of the area until late XIX Century;
Istro-Vlachs is said that arrived in Istria from North Carpathian - Maramures about 1000 years ago. Their dialect is related to those Vlachs.
But when comes to ancient inhabitants of those areas, Italics, Illyrian, Dacian all sprang from the same Middle Danube Cultures and must have been closely related anyway, in a slightly different mix.
 
Milan.M said:
Well Dacia was Roman province from 107–275.Genetically both Italians and Romanians have very little to nothing in common except Latin based language.
Romanians live next to Slavs for thousands years and are very similar genetically.
Romanians used Old Church Slavonic in churches until 19th century,had Slavic names even in present.
Romanian language was much more Slavic influenced until it's reformation,making it more Latin.
Wallachia was more under Bulgarian rule than ever was Roman.
Overall Vlachs and Slavs had similar/same history and there wasn't culture bariers,except one being more agriculturalist other more pastoralists.
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The very most of this Balkan Sprachbund comes from Ochrid,especially after the reorganization of the Archbishopric caused by Basil II's conquest of the Bulgarian state,it explains how the entire Bulgarian-Macedonian language has elements that are considered inherited in Albanian.


They used Romanian,Albanian, Slavic and Greek elements for a certain degree of standardization,like the alternative verb for "to marry", which in all of these had the initial meaning " to crown"(R cununa,A kurunzon,G stefanonu?,B vencavam).


This semantic shift explains very well the term mire,that in Albanian stands for "good", while in Northern Romanian, is the word for " husband ",at the wedding ceremony, the entire semantic field definitely sounds ecclesiastical(ultimately from myrrh, with the obvious association " ointed"-"crowned ");the Aromanian instead uses an inherited term dziniri(Latin generis) and in this respect it resembles the Wallachian(ginere),so basically a divergence from Ochird,nevertheless ,not the same thing can be said about the quite consistent number of shared elements with the Northern Romanian dialects(Transylvanian and Moldavian),for example,celnic(the chief of the shepherds),instead of Paleo-Balkanic baci(Albanian bats) and the consonantization,Xo,u--->Xf,v(very rare,but present in the Northern R.)

Nevertheless,the entire Romanian (Daco-R,at least/especially) has clearly less (or virtually none)consonantized words:R.preot,(Old or dialectal)Spanish preote,A prift.

Consonatization exp:Latin Paulus,Greek Pavlos,Slavic Pavle.

https://books.google.ro/books?id=ei...AXoECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=preote spanish&f=false

R. dialects:

https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldauer#/media/Datei:Romania_Graiuri.jpg
 
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The Ochrid School had very good diplomacy skills,probably.

Arbereshe:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N_WS0_9PZgw

I mean,even now the ruler of Moldavia,Stefan,is much more appreciated by theTurks than Vlad(just read the comments of Vlad Tepes clips),although they both have caused about the same amount of damage,the argument is rather awkward-they perceived him very chivalric;indeed,Stefan was a very fine tactician and a great warrior, while Vlad was pure instinct,but unfortunately for him, shepherdly sincere.

Nevertheless,Tepes had a great potential, he was extremely hated by his main ally,the Hungarian king,while Stephen was very popular.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9RoBspQiOiE

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sCiOQ570nrk
 
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There is an apparently controversial early account of rabbi Benjamin Tudela,it says that the Vlachs only robbed, but not killed,like in other cases,the Jews,considering them their "brothers".

This has been interpreted in many ways,IMO,it simply sounds like a Vlach-Wallachian joke(they are very different actually from the Greek ones).

http://www.farsarotul.org/nl26_1.htm

Speaking of the Vlach jesterness,these jokes can push way beyond limits(even by the Greek standards)perhaps a mentality inherited before the Christianization,they are very inventive and spontaneous, but clearly way cruder than in Greece or Italy,that's why this has 50% chance to be true:

https://books.google.ro/books?id=Ty...CAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=vlachs athos devil&f=false

I mean,even if the monks had lied they did it in a reliable way.

When I say,limits,taboo,I'm not necessarily referring to vulgarity, but of extreme stances ,under the standards of post-christian sensitive concepts like death,etc.Again, it has nothing to do with the Greek /S Italian jokes,even these can sound much more " humane".

These jokes are addressed extremely boldly, direct and careless,it's about extreme overconfidence and a very high level of entertainment,but not only-they basically confirm that you're very strong,independent-I know it very well,because I used to be very good at this.
 
Bodin said:
As far as I know Vlach are probably descendants of Protobalkanic population , so they are Illyrians , Thracians and Dacians . There was no big genetic diference betwen Thracians and Dacians to begin with , because they are relative nations . Also after the great rebellion in Panonija and Illyria (6 -9 AC) Romans moved populations of all Balcanic provinces , some of Illyrians (including Panonians who were they subgroup living north of Sava river ) and Celts ( Scordisci) were moved to Tracia and Dacia , and some of Tracians and Dacians are moved to Illyric and Panonia . For that reason old tribes ceased to exist , and Romans formed new , artificial ones for egsample Tricornenses and Timaches . During Hunic and Avar atacks some of that population moved out , some died , but some is left and setled the mountain aereas where they could seak shelter against atacks . That is how Vlach and Albanians have formed , greatest number of Vlach in Serbian medieval states was in Stari Vlah ( Old Vlach) aeria and Montenegro. When Serbs setled they had to arrange comon living with Vlach so they were given special status , they have special taxes , autonomy under they own leaders - primićur and voyvoda , they lived in separate comunities - katuni , they could move from aeria to aeria seaking pastures for they sheeps , horses and cows ( they were mainly shepards) , while it has been forbiden for farmers to live they feudal masters . But all the times peasants are escaping to live more free like Vlachs , that proces can be traced in esceping pesants to free cities on Adriatic coast ( like Dubrovnik/Ragusa). So there was constant geneflow from Serbians to Vlach and mixing . I supose simillar proceses had ocured in Greece /Byzantium and Bulgaria . There was also some moving of Vlachs from Romania to Balkans especially Bulgaria , that Vlachs from Romania were mixed with Kumans , who wer.
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Nice lyre,the head looks like that of the Romanian-Vlach shepherd's staff,but something else has caught my attention, this is the Romanian dark-brown horse,we call it murg,an extremely swift and spirited,nervous creature,very hard to tame,if you're not careful he can leave,accelerate, without you,they're also very hard to stop,the expression for this is"eating fire".

Nevertheless, we like to boost them a lot,because that's what he wants the most,extremely capricious horses,they can choose the path,moves,etc.,if you let them breathe(don't beat him,just keep using your energy to control the situation)...

I had a very good one...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6Lqoxxu3oQE

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/murg

https://www.moddb.com/mods/tsardoms-total-war/images/vlach-cavalry

In the early chronicles, the foundations of Wallachia and Moldavia are called descalecat(dismounting).
 
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Dreptul Valah said:
There is an apparently controversial early account of rabbi Benjamin Tudela,it says that the Vlachs only robbed, but not killed,like in other cases,the Jews,considering them their "brothers".
This has been interpreted in many ways,IMO,it simply sounds like a Vlach-Wallachian joke(they are very different actually from the Greek ones).
http://www.farsarotul.org/nl26_1.htm
.
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Netanyahu doesn't seem to like this old Vlach-Jewish... brotherhood that much,you can easily spot some adversity here, I just thought we were friends...


Meeting Alksandar Vucic(Serbian official with Vlach ancestry):

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fCMMGYUstKs

http://www.bosanskehistorije.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=720

https://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics.php?yyyy=2016&mm=08&dd=11&nav_id=98873
 
Dreptul Valah said:
Netanyahu doesn't seem to like this old Vlach-Jewish... brotherhood that much,you can easily spot some adversity here.
Meeting Alksandar Vucic(Serbian official with Vlach ancestry):
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fCMMGYUstKs
http://www.bosanskehistorije.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=720
https://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics.php?yyyy=2016&mm=08&dd=11&nav_id=98873
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From what i know, Vucic's family is from a village in Bosnia. That village was founded by people who came from Voskopojë, Vlachs, Albanians, who knows now. Then in former Yugoslavia, the Serbs were and are called Vlasi from the other ethnic groups.
 
LABERIA said:
From what i know, Vucic's family is from a village in Bosnia. That village was founded by people who came from Voskopojë, Vlachs, Albanians, who knows now. Then in former Yugoslavia, the Serbs were and are called Vlasi from the other ethnic groups.
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This is a clear evidence against the Vlach's assimilation by the Slavs or Byzantines:the word was obviously pejorative in these societies, mainly because the Romanians were shepherds that practiced long-distance transhumance,for them,nomads,see Dusan's Laws,Anna Comnena's writings and the first Greek descriptions ,hoditai (kjelatori ,which means travellers in Romanian,for the Serbian papers),that meant,travellers,highwaymen.

But we can find these kind of migrations in other populations,tratturi,for instance,on the Adriatic coast,or the very early Greek mythology, Jason,Argonauts.


http://www.leviedeitratturi.com/i-tratturi/


https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tratturo
 
The Romans sometimes stopped them to pay the taxes,that's how they were "Romanized",but the thing is that these Dacian tribes have interacted very differently with them:

for instance,the Wallachian word for whetstone is gresie(linguists struggle to make it Slavic),from Dacian,see Albanian gereshe,while Northern Romanian has cute,from Latin.
The whetstone was a very important tool for sharpening weapons.

Another important word in Wallachian is burta,again,from Dacian,related to Albanian bark,Old English burth(birth),with simple etymology, if we look at all these words-it explains the shift of Latin sarcina in Romanian, triggered by the meanings of the substratum word.
North Romanian has pantece and foale,both from Latin.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7b/BURTA.JPG

http://www.academia.edu/5766282/Common_Lexic_in_Romanian_and_Albanian._Substrate_and_Loanwords


https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/bark


https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/gresie
 
sarcina,with the following sense ,pregnancy.

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/sarcină

search for gresie in the common R-A list.
We also know what punishments the Romans has used for the Vlachs:in abruzzese,spandeka means to torture,the word is present in Adriatic Latin-they hated Romanian's ultraindependent style life, that's for sure.

After all,because of their way of life,the Vlachs had ESTP personality type like the Paleo-Balkanic tribes ,see the chronicles about Dacians,Thracians and the episode between Teuta and the Roman ambassadors.

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/spinteca
 
@Milan

anthropological analysis for 15th c. Romania
Arges,Wallachia,urban necropolis,75% Dinarics(more men,mostly,the "very clear" types),25% Alpine(mostly women)

Vlasca,south of Bucharest til Danube,rural,clear majority Dinarics,Alpine,plus Baltic,it resembles today's population of northern Bulgaria,the whole area,not just the Danube,but also towards the center,mountains.

Center Moldavia,rural,many unmixed Dinarics, followed by the ones with Nordic admixture.

Wallachia,various sources,mostly Dinarics,more or less Slavic admixtures;again,the Slavic traits more prevalent in women.

S:Acta Moldaviae Meridionalis

My thinking:since women with Slavic ancestry resemble mostly the ones from northern Bulgaria, for instance,Veliko Tarnovo,they were brought from there by the Romanians.
 
Dinaric is also strong in SW Bulgaria,but the genetic research indicates it is very local(SW Bulgaria,FYROM,esp.southern half and northern Greece),from this study I have posted the maps with the Romanian genes.
 
@Dreptul,
Your post recounting how you sexually harassed a woman has been deleted. Keep it up and you're out of here.
 
LABERIA said:
From what i know, Vucic's family is from a village in Bosnia. That village was founded by people who came from Voskopojë, Vlachs, Albanians, who knows now. Then in former Yugoslavia, the Serbs were and are called Vlasi from the other ethnic groups.
Click to expand...

Vucic comes from the village of Cipuljici in the county of Bugojno in Central-West Bosnia. Cipluljic was a Cincar (Aroumanian) village that became Serbian due to assimilation. IIRC the last speakers of Aroumanian in that village died out at the turn of the last century. I've asked Serbs if Vucic has done a DNA test yet and thus far he hasn't.
 
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