Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

[blevins13]

mfs be like, "illyrian has nothing to do with the proto-albanians, it was enver hoxha's communist propaganda bro, dardania is the cradle of jesus the thracian, we kosovars are pure dardani thracians unlike the weak roman-illyrian arber highlanders in malsi, mirdite, and dibra"

then they're like "how are we being anti-albanian "

We have established now that majority of the Albanian tribe in Kosovo has their origin in North Albania. Genetically Modern Albanian positions in the genetical map of the Balkans is very natural and in line with Mediterranean continuum, so I don’t see any reason so far to look for a different geographical place other than North Albania where Albanoi tribe was attested for the first time.

 

[enter_tain]

We have established now that majority of the Albanian tribe in Kosovo has their origin in North Albania. Genetically Modern Albanian positions in the genetical map of the Balkans is very natural and in line with Mediterranean continuum, so I don’t see any reason so far to look for a different geographical place other than North Albania where Albanoi tribe was attested for the first time.

The Albanoi being Albanian is too boring. We need to make fake up stories and add some worldbuilding and lore. Let's go to the Central Balkans where Celtic/Gallic tribes lived, maybe they come from there.

We also need a precious ring, and a giant eye watching over all these lands. Maybe the Giant Eye is EV-13.

 

[torzio]

The Albanoi being Albanian is too boring. We need to make fake up stories and add some worldbuilding and lore. Let's go to the Central Balkans where Celtic/Gallic tribes lived, maybe they come from there.

We also need a precious ring, and a giant eye watching over all these lands. Maybe the Giant Eye is EV-13.

you need to cease Clickbaiting

 

[Dushman]

you need to cease Clickbaiting

You need to cease being so obsessed with Albanians. Or you feel left out from your fellow Italians and are trying to befriend us?

 

[torzio]

You need to cease being so obsessed with Albanians. Or you feel left out from your fellow Italians and are trying to befriend us?

ROFL

 

[Illyria]

ROFL

Where is the Doric Greek areas?


the 2 biggest Albanian cities in ancient times where created by Corinthian Greeks...Durres and Appolonia, circa 700BC .............they remained Greek until the Romans took the area permanently.


What did the Corinthian Greek ( ancient ) speak ?

You are obsessed with Albanians, this is your post just minutes before this one on anthrogenica, on their Albanian origins thread LMAO

"Where is the Doric Greek areas?"

torzio, you've been on these fora for 10+ years, obsessed with Albanians, Illyrians, Romans, and Greeks, yet you still don't know where the Doric Greek areas are?

I'll help you torzio vettori, Dorians were Spartanz n shiiet

 

[Johane Derite]

Likewise, the big point here is that languages like Phrygian, Paeonian, etc, existed. These were Balkan IE languages that were neither Thracian or Illyrian, as Matzinger is considering Messapic and Albanian.

"The above southern traits of the Albanian language might in the context of historical facts be linked to the Troadic Dardanians, Phrygians and Mysians."


"All three participants of the Trojan War are linked to the central Balkan area, and are according to Greek traditions the older ethnic layer in the Balkans.


This view was subsequently confirmed by archeological discoveries of a special cultural group in the central Balkan Danubian area of the Bronze Age, the material and spiritual culture of which cannot be linked directly to the Illyrians or Thracians"

 

[Dushman]

If bro Vanja says so, it must be so.

Related to Germanic and Balto-Slavic, related to Messapic, but not related to either Illyrian or Thracian, therefore not J2b2 or E-V13 descended. So mysterious this Albanian-Dardanian-Trojan language. Is it related to Hittite too by any chance? What is Vanja’s opinion on this?

 

[Hawk]

That’s not true. Gashi I Gurit is a tribe in itself and has nothing to do with Krasniqi, except for sharing a TMRCA of ~ 900ybp with them and Nikaj. Gashi as an anthroponym has been mentioned since 1485, then in 1634, as a tribe / village in 1636 by Bardhi, in 1651 by Bogdani etc.
Frang Bardhi in the visit of 1634 in the village of Gash, which is supposed to be GegHyseni, says that the first of the Gashi tribe was Pjeter Spani, the ruler of Pult. Based on the latest genetic studies, it seems to be kinda true. According to Elsie, Gashi was the first tribe of Tropoja and lived there long before Krasniqja came. Based on its tribal scheme, but also based on the TMRCA, Krasniqja must have come to Tropoja around the years 1550-1600.
In 1689 we have the letter of the "Krenat e Gashit", addressed to the Pope of Rome, where they asked for priests for their churches.

Right after the letter of the leaders of Gashi, somewhere between 1693 - 1695, the Pasha of Peja, conducted an expedition and destroyed whole Gashi and moved all its inhabitants to the Dukagjini Plain. That was a very big turning point for the Gashi tribe. This tribe that settled in the Dukagjini Plain at that time was still Catholic, and today is scattered throughout Kosovo, in Llap, Gollak, Anamorave, as well as in Drenice and Dukagjini Plain. That tribe was Gashi I Gurit, that is, the real Gashi, the descendants of the noble medieval family of Spani, who has no blood connection with the Bardhet e Gashit(Whites of Gashi) which today live in Tropoje, nor are they "integrated" in the tribe of Krasniqi as you claim. After the settlement of Gashi i Gurit in Kosovo, Krasniqi began to migrate west and populate the old settlements of Gashi in Tropoje.

Bardhet e Gashit on the other hand, multiplied and expanded their settlements, and since mid 1700 until today, are known as synonymous with the Gashi tribe. Today they inhabit all the villages of Gashi of Tropoja, except Luzha which is Gash i Gurit(J2b-L283) and which was formed by the Aga of Botosha sometime after 1700. Bardhet together with Shipshaj, are both E-V13>PH2180. In Kosovo, although there are few tested, most of the Gash are Gash i Gurit (J2b-L283). Normally, there are families that have joined the Gashi tribe in Kosovo as well, but what is more important, so far, no tested Gashi brotherhood of Bardhi or even Shipshan has been encountered yet.

To be frank, Gashi i Gurit is not Krasniqe, nor Krasniqja is Gash i Gurit. Not even Nikaj belong to the Krasniqi tribe. The real Krasniq are those who share a TMRCA of 500ybp and who are the descendants of the Kolmekshaj, Hysenmekshaj and Kolgecaj brotherhood.

The last common ancestor of these three tribes(Gashi i Gurit, Krasniqja and Nikaj) lived about 900 years ago. The paternal line of the Gashi tribe has been separated since then, while the Nikaj and Krasniqe share even closer common ancestors, until about 600-700 years ago. Also in this subclade is an Arberesh of Italy and an Albanian from Syria, who claims to be from the Dukagjini tribe. If this is true, then it once again confirms the origin of Gashi i Gurit from the noble medieval family of Spani (Pjeter Spani, Leke Spani), because according to M.Sufflay, the Spani was the same tribe with Dukagjini.


Long story short, do not mess around with history.

To clarify something, which is very obvious but keeps not getting sayed. The Gashi i Gurit are the Bardhis as well (E-V13 L241), and probably the ones whom originally and initially it was referred to, that's a common knowledge, Luzha/Botusha J2b2-L283 probably joined them latter and got this nomenclature as Gashi i Gurit. Since the sons of Bardhi were quite famous they used the Bardhi quite a lot as well to distinguish themselves from other Gashi i Gurit. So, Gashi i Gurit i divided between Bardhi and the other ones (Luzha/Botusha mostly probably), probably the second group is the one whom nowadays the Gashi i Gurit J2b2-L283 from Kosove identifies with and descends from.

The Bardhi domain was far more stronger than Luzha/Botusha(which adopted the Gashi i Gurit name as well) and Shipshan (In Kosova the Maloku family descends from them, probably the origin of their ancestor Kall Kamberi being a Gypsy was just a propaganda thrown by Bardhis), it is the latter two families that asked to be joined in Bardhi domain so the newly created Gashi tribe is stronger. One such example is Mahmud Pashe Begolli, the Beylerbeyler of Balkans, athough nowadays his family identifies themselves as Berish that's not true, they are Gash-Bardh in origin most likely as he was noted before.

 

[Dardapara]

To clarify something, which is very obvious but keeps not getting sayed. The Gashi i Gurit are the Bardhis as well (E-V13 L241), and probably the ones whom originally and initially it was referred to, that's a common knowledge, Luzha/Botusha J2b2-L283 probably joined them latter and got this nomenclature as Gashi i Gurit. Since the sons of Bardhi were quite famous they used the Bardhi quite a lot as well to distinguish themselves from other Gashi i Gurit. So, Gashi i Gurit i divided between Bardhi and the other ones (Luzha/Botusha mostly probably), probably the second group is the one whom nowadays the Gashi i Gurit J2b2-L283 from Kosove identifies with and descends from.
The Bardhi domain was far more stronger than Luzha/Botusha(which adopted the Gashi i Gurit name as well) and Shipshan (In Kosova the Maloku family descends from them, probably the origin of their ancestor Kall Kamberi being a Gypsy was just a propaganda thrown by Bardhis), it is the latter two families that asked to be joined in Bardhi domain so the newly created Gashi tribe is stronger. One such example is Mahmud Pashe Begolli, the Beylerbeyler of Balkans, athough nowadays his family identifies themselves as Berish that's not true, they are Gash-Bardh in origin most likely as he was noted before.

Dude, you are completly wrong. The Gashi i Gurit as it is known in Kosove (the J2b2<PH1751 Gash) are the old Gash which were mentioned in 1634 by Frang Bardhi in his visit in the village of Gash. Those people were catholic back then, and had no relation with Bardhet whom were all muslims, and perhaps didn’t even live in Tropoje at the time that the visit is done. In the years 1690-1693, the village of Gash was burned down by Begolli of Peja as I mentioned in my previous post, and its population was expelled to the Llap region in Kosove, as report of 1697 states. “The village of Gashi with 120 houses, which were evicted from Pasha of Peja, are now located in the area of Kosovo, in a place called Llap, who are living there for 8 years, which are without priests and have begun to become Turkish(Muslim) and schismatic(Orthodox) due to the lack of Catholic priests”.

On the other hand, Bardhet at that time had not started to be called Gash yet let alone Gash i Gurit. In 1698 we have a report about the village of Bardhaj which states: "The village of Bardhi with 68 houses in four villages, has many Christian women; no men, but all Turks and renegades”.
After the expulsion of Gashi to Kosovo, Gashi in Tropoja had remained only in 2 villages, Luzhe and Botushe, which were also mentioned in a report of 1697 as Gashjane villages, while Bardhet had already more power and territorial extension.

According to legend in Tropoja, the Gashi tribe took it's current form when the Aga of the Gashi in Botushe united the Luzha with the bajrak of Bardhi, and since then, these 3 tribes (Luzhe, Bardhet and Shipshan) were united under 1 bajrak and started to be known as Gash. This must have taken place sometime after 1700. So, Luzha and Botusha didn’t get the ethnonym Gash because of the Bardhet, but quite the opposite.
I dont know if the “Gurit” thing is used by the Bardhaj of Tropoje, but since this is pretty much used in Kosove, I doubt that it has any Bardhaj origin.

As for Shipshan, I do not know who these Maloku family are, but a lot of families in Gjakove and Peje have its origin from that tribe, as they have from Bardhi too.
However, since we have some tests already done from those villages which are called Gash i Gurit in Kosove, and which are related to the old Gashi of Kosove mentioned above, I think that the majority of Gash people in Kosove are J2b2<PH1751 not E-V13<L241.
There’s a great post about Gashi tribe made by the Rrenjet project couple of weeks ago, suggest you to read it(can’t post the link due to forum policies).

On the Begolli part, as far as I know they actually descend from the Dukagjini family. One of the Leka’s son, Mahmut Pasha the first, was the founder of the Sanjak of Peja, from who descend the person who is believed to be the progenitor of the Begolli family, Mere Huseyin Pasha, who was also the grand vizier of the Ottoman Empire. The other sons of Leke were Dukaginzade Ahmed Pasha(Progon Dukagjini) who was also a grand vezir and Mehmet Dukagjini.

 

[Hawk]

Dude, you are completly wrong. The Gashi i Gurit as it is known in Kosove (the J2b2<PH1751 Gash) are the old Gash which were mentioned in 1634 by Frang Bardhi in his visit in the village of Gash. Those people were catholic back then, and had no relation with Bardhet whom were all muslims, and perhaps didn’t even live in Tropoje at the time that the visit is done. In the years 1690-1693, the village of Gash was burned down by Begolli of Peja as I mentioned in my previous post, and its population was expelled to the Llap region in Kosove, as report of 1697 states. “The village of Gashi with 120 houses, which were evicted from Pasha of Peja, are now located in the area of Kosovo, in a place called Llap, who are living there for 8 years, which are without priests and have begun to become Turkish(Muslim) and schismatic(Orthodox) due to the lack of Catholic priests”.
On the other hand, Bardhet at that time had not started to be called Gash yet let alone Gash i Gurit. In 1698 we have a report about the village of Bardhaj which states: "The village of Bardhi with 68 houses in four villages, has many Christian women; no men, but all Turks and renegades”.
After the expulsion of Gashi to Kosovo, Gashi in Tropoja had remained only in 2 villages, Luzhe and Botushe, which were also mentioned in a report of 1697 as Gashjane villages, while Bardhet had already more power and territorial extension.
According to legend in Tropoja, the Gashi tribe took it's current form when the Aga of the Gashi in Botushe united the Luzha with the bajrak of Bardhi, and since then, these 3 tribes (Luzhe, Bardhet and Shipshan) were united under 1 bajrak and started to be known as Gash. This must have taken place sometime after 1700. So, Luzha and Botusha didn’t get the ethnonym Gash because of the Bardhet, but quite the opposite.
I dont know if the “Gurit” thing is used by the Bardhaj of Tropoje, but since this is pretty much used in Kosove, I doubt that it has any Bardhaj origin.
As for Shipshan, I do not know who these Maloku family are, but a lot of families in Gjakove and Peje have its origin from that tribe, as they have from Bardhi too.
However, since we have some tests already done from those villages which are called Gash i Gurit in Kosove, and which are related to the old Gashi of Kosove mentioned above, I think that the majority of Gash people in Kosove are J2b2<PH1751 not E-V13<L241.
There’s a great post about Gashi tribe made by the Rrenjet project couple of weeks ago, suggest you to read it(can’t post the link due to forum policies).
On the Begolli part, as far as I know they actually descend from the Dukagjini family. One of the Leka’s son, Mahmut Pasha the first, was the founder of the Sanjak of Peja, from who descend the person who is believed to be the progenitor of the Begolli family, Mere Huseyin Pasha, who was also the grand vizier of the Ottoman Empire. The other sons of Leke were Dukaginzade Ahmed Pasha(Progon Dukagjini) who was also a grand vezir and Mehmet Dukagjini.

It's clearly and explicitly stated by the Bardhi themselves that they are Gashi i Gurit but also the Gashi i Gurit in Kosova state that this sub-tribe is divided between the Bardhi and probably the other ones Luzha/Botusha. It can be that Gashi i Gurit came as latter denomination to differentiate from Shipshan.

And the Aga of Botush asked/pleaded the Bardhis to take his villages under their protection/dominion he didn't unite, that's a difference. The Shipshani did the same earlier, they asked/pleaded the Bardhi to join their dominion. So when the three different tribes united the denomination of Gash came. As for all those legends, they will stay like that, a lot of legends unproved.

 

[broder]

Luzha/Botusha are the old Gashi, with their old settlement being in Geghysen. They got displaced and almost reduced to nothing by Krasniqi/Nika. What remained of them in Tropoje settled Luzhe. Also why we see all the old Gashi settlements in Kosove, especially Drenice and Mitrovice area, being dominated by their linage. They left early for Kosove. Bardhi and Shipshani are not as common and started spreading east much later.

Gashi i Gurit denomination is confusing in Kosove and I wouldn’t take it seriously.

 

[Hawk]

Folk-tales i would say. Gashi as is known came up when Bardhi took under their dominion and united with Shipshan and Luzha/Botusha. Beyond that is just speculation.

Nevertheless, it's fair to mention that Gashi i Gurit is also known as Gashi i gurit te bardh or Bardhi. So Bardhi is also called Gashi i Gurit, probably the ones in Kosova were another branch of Gashi i Gurit. It was probably more like a territory designation to differentiate from Shipshan considering the Shipshani territory was more of north (just me guessing here about the last sentence). Based on what i have read, doesn't look to me that Shipshan were in good terms with Bardhis, despite them latter being united in a single tribe.

But i agree, Bardhis doesn't look to have migrated much in Kosova and in MK or Lugine. But the Shipshan do have migrated to a degree though.

 

[Dardapara]

It's clearly and explicitly stated by the Bardhi themselves that they are Gashi i Gurit but also the Gashi i Gurit in Kosova state that this sub-tribe is divided between the Bardhi and probably the other ones Luzha/Botusha. It can be that Gashi i Gurit came as latter denomination to differentiate from Shipshan.

Stated where? Would you mind to show me some historical references please? Most of Gash i Gurit in Kosova doesn’t even mention Bardhi as their ancestor, as they have originated from the Gash of Pult, the real old Gash that was mentioned by F.Bardhi in 1634. I have read a story long time ago, where it sated that the Bardhi used to be called i Gurit, due to their settlements in highland areas. But on the other side, we have Gash of Kosove(Carrabeg, Llaushe, Mramor, Llapashtice etc), who call themselves i Gurit and have no relation with Bardhi at all. Bardhi is Gash after 1700, before, it was just Bardh, Kuç or whatever. To be called i Gurit, doesnt mean that you are more Gash than the others, its just an denomination where no one knows where it came from.

And the Aga of Botush asked/pleaded the Bardhis to take his villages under their protection/dominion he didn't unite, that's a difference. The Shipshani did the same earlier, they asked/pleaded the Bardhi to join their dominion.

Aga of Botusha was a very powerful man, and its clearly that there was a deal between them. I don’t know if he pleaded the Bardhis to take Luzha under their bajrak since I wasn’t there, but what is known is, that after this event Bardhi was put under the umbrella of the name Gash, with a leading role, as they were stronger and more territorially expanded in the Highlands of Gjakova. Prior to this event, Bardhi had nothing to do with Gashi, except for living in their territory from the late 17th century. As for the Shipshan, they had joined the Bardhis bayrak earlier, since Kall Kamberi was married to the daughter of Bardh Aga.

So when the three different tribes united the denomination of Gash came

The name Gash has existed since 1485, where it was first attested as a patronym in the nahiye of Peter Span. This event did not invent the name or the Gashi tribe, but borrowed the name from the old Gashi tribe that lived there long ago, and created a new bayrak under the name of it. The union of these 3 tribes brought that Gash that we know in the last 300 years in the highlands of Gjakova, but not the Gashi of Kosovo which has nothing to do with these 3 brotherhoods.

As for all those legends, they will stay like that, a lot of legends unproved.

I do not know which part you are talking about, but there are historical reports from past centuries that show a very clear picture of Gash's history.

 

[Dardapara]

Folk-tales i would say. Gashi as is known came up when Bardhi took under their dominion and united with Shipshan and Luzha/Botusha. Beyond that is just speculation.

These so called folk-tales by you, sounds more like historical reports to me. And yeah for sure, Bardhi is the first to have been Gash out of nowhere, since these Gash in Kosove and the old Gash of Pult have never existed in the face of the earth.


1485, First attested of Gashi as a patronym in the Ottoman defter of 1485 in the settlement of Bazari Lepoviça in the nahiye of Petrishpan-ili, Mrija son of Gash, Nikolla son of Gash;

1634, According to Elsie, the first mention of this tribe in historical documents was in this year, as Gaasi in the ecclesiastical report of the Franciscan priest Bonaventura di Palazzolo.

1638, The visit of F.Bardhi in Gash village: “Ky emën i Gashit, me të cilën fjalë quhen të gjitha ato shtëpi të sipër shënueme, asht edhe mbiemeni i një konaku 95 frymësh, të gjithë prej 3 vellaznive që ishin të tre gjallë dhe njihnin pasardhesit e vet deri në breznin e katërt.”;

1680, Reports indicated that the Gashi and Krasniqja tribes were in frequent conflicts with one another until 1680, when Pjeter Bogdani managed to reconcile 24 blood feuds between the two tribe. Quote:”Te nesermen, ishte e diele, u mblodhen 150 vete prej Krasniqe te gjithe te armatosun; e 150 vete prej Gashi edhe keta t’armatosun mbi lumin e Valbones kendej e andej nji mil larg njena pale prej tjetres, Argjipeshkvi ne kal, me klerin e vet, tue shkapercye lumin andej e kendej ma se dhete here tue rrahe kushtet qe te jete paqe; ma ne fund me udi te vete atyne i pajtoj, tuekerenue mallkime kanonike per kedo qe kishte guxue me dhunue mareveshjen, e tue pajtue 24 vrasje mrenda tri oreve edhe te turqit shkaktoi cudi” etc;

1689, In 1689, Krenat e Gashit wrote a letter to the Vatian, asking for greater clerical and material support;

1690-93, the village of Gash was burned down by the Pasha of Peja and its population was expelled in Kosovo;

1693-4, the mention of the Luzhe and the Botushe;

1697, a report mention Gash presence in Kosove: ”Fshati Gashi me 120 shtëpi, të cilat u dëbuan nga Pashai i Pejës, tani janë vendosur në fushën e Kosovës, në një vend të quajtur Llap, dhe kjo tash 8 vjet, të cilat janë pa priftërinj dhe kanë filluar të bëhen turq dhe skizmatikë nga mungesa e priftërinjve katolikë“;

1697, a report shows the relation of Luzha with Gashi: “Po ashtu Luzha, fshat me 12 shtëpi katolike, është farë e fis me Gashin, edhe pse është rreth 4 milje drejt maleve të Bytyçit“;

1698, a report mention Bardhi village: “Fshati Bardhi me 68 shtëpi në katër katunde, ka shumë gra të krishtera; burra asnjë, por të gjithë turq e renegatë“;

 

[Dushman]

@Dardapara
Hawk has got to have the last word. Gashi were Gava related Trojans Dardanians who settled in North Western Albania then spread back to their ancestral land.

The only real Gashi that we all know of are those in Luzha and Botusha. We in Toplana has had Gashi but it’s a different family that went to Montenegro. Some Toplana families claim to be from Gash of Tropoja too.

 

[Hawk]

Stated where? Would you mind to show me some historical references please? Most of Gash i Gurit in Kosova doesn’t even mention Bardhi as their ancestor, as they have originated from the Gash of Pult, the real old Gash that was mentioned by F.Bardhi in 1634. I have read a story long time ago, where it sated that the Bardhi used to be called i Gurit, due to their settlements in highland areas. But on the other side, we have Gash of Kosove(Carrabeg, Llaushe, Mramor, Llapashtice etc), who call themselves i Gurit and have no relation with Bardhi at all. Bardhi is Gash after 1700, before, it was just Bardh, Kuç or whatever. To be called i Gurit, doesnt mean that you are more Gash that the others, its just an denomination where no one knows where it came from.



Aga of Botusha was a very powerful man, and its clearly that there was a deal between them. I don’t know if he pleaded the Bardhis to take Luzha under their bajrak since I wasn’t there, but what it matters is that after this event Bardhi was put under the umbrella of the name Gash, with a leading role, as they were stronger and more territorially expanded. Prior to this event, Bardhi had nothing to do with Gashi, except for living in their territory from the late 17th century. As for the Shipshan, they had joined the Bardhis bayrak earlier, since Kall Kamberi was married to the daughter of Bardh Aga.



The name Gash has existed since 1485, where it was first attested as a patronym in the nahiye of Peter Span. This event did not invent the name or the Gashi tribe, but borrowed the name from the old Gashi tribe that lived there long ago, and created a new bayrak under the name of it. The union of these 3 tribes brought that Gash that we know in the last 300 years in the highlands of Gjakova, but not the Gashi of Kosovo which has nothing to do with these 3 brotherhoods.



I do not know which part you are talking about, but there are historical reports from past centuries that show a very clear picture of Gash's history.

Bardhi always seem to state that they are called Gashi i Gurit. It looks to me that Gashi i Gurit was divided between Bardhi and probably some sub-set of Botusha which the Gashjant J2b2-L283 from Kosova descend.

"Ku po del kjo flakë e verdhë
Gashit t'gurit si përherë
Gashit t'gurit renda -renda
I ka djemt ( Bajram Rama) me shtatë zemra.
Brahim Bardhi t'madhe briti
Po ku je Halil Brahimi
Lesho Kushtrimin te Shpend Zeqiri.
Gashianët nuk pranuan kompromisin me pashain turk siç na vertetojnë vargjet memoriale.
N'qafë të Morinës pasha ka dalë
U ka çue bajrakëve fjalë
A po vini me u pjek me mue
Me u dhanë vulat me u rehatue
Ka thirrë Gashin nuk i ka shkue.

I think that the Bardhi's opinion is necessary in this kind of discussions as well, so we get their point of view. But i am pretty sure, i have encountered many times them explicitly stating that Bardhi are also called from Gashi i Gurit.

 

[Hawk]

@Dardapara
Hawk has got to have the last word. Gashi were Gava related Trojans Dardanians who settled in North Western Albania then spread back to their ancestral land.

The only real Gashi that we all know of are those in Luzha and Botusha. We in Toplana has had Gashi but it’s a different family that went to Montenegro. Some Toplana families claim to be from Gash of Tropoja too.

O Dema, Demush, irony is not your strongest point. Nor, sneaking as an E-V13 Albanian trying to disclaim us.

 

[mount123]

As per Rrenjet:

"Nga fshati Luzhë, që përmendet si i fisit të Gashit që në shek 17, kemi dy rezultate që i takojnë të njëjtës linjë atërore: J2b-L283>PH1751>Y126399. Pra fshati i hershëm i Gashit duhet të ketë patur popullsi të kësaj linje. Prejardhja e tyre e largët lidhet me fiset e lashta të Ballkanit, me prani prej të paktën 3500 vitesh në rajonin ku ndodhet edhe sot. Lidhja e supozuar me Toplanën dhe Shllakun, deri tani nuk gjen mbështetje në rezultatet gjenetike, pasi anëtarët e testuar të këtyre dy fiseve kanë lidhje gjaku mes tyre, por jo me Gashin. Në fakt, lidhjet më të afërta janë me fisin e Krasniqes dhe Nikajve, rreth 750-850 vjet largësi (~25-30 breza), prandaj me shumë gjasë të parët e këtyre fiseve kanë qenë banorë të zonës së Pultit që në Mesjetë, të paktën nga shekujt 13-14 (lidhja mes Gashit, Krasniqes dhe Nikajt: https://www.facebook.com/101700961530810/posts/301135728253998/)."

I have no particular opinion on this topic but find it interesting nonetheless that the latter two groups are closer to us Nika and Krasniqi.

 

[mount123]

O Dema, Demush, irony is not your strongest point. Nor, sneaking as an E-V13 Albanian trying to disclaim us.

Nope he is legit what he claims. He has made insanely bizarre posts about Kosovo and East Albanians having Ottoman ancestry since they supposedly look Middle Eastern. This reminds me of TakikateMalet/ShpataeMadhe's obsession with height, they both don't have these characteristics hence why they obsess over them so much.