Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

[Hawk]

I14685 I think clusters with Macedonians, she was probably a Gorani woman married to man in Kukes.

Perhaps, i didn't look at it in detail. Just saw the sample.

 

[Excine]

I highly doubt this is mere pettiness. You'd probably be surprised, but he likely works in the Alb government, and has an interest in controlling the narrative, it has nothing to do with how he feels about certain haplogroups.

You make me laugh so hard with your wild speculations.

 

[mount123]

I understand Bruzmi the way he acts. He is a J2b2-L283 Albanian, and it's in his benefit to belittle E-V13 Albanians as much as he can, as has their propaganda been going on and on (some specific group, not all of them to be explicit). They remind me of Serbs of 10-15 years ago. Almost the same behaviour patterns, slightly more sneaky.

But i seriously fail to understand Excine as E-V13 Albanian. Is he so naive or what?!

It would be weird considering he had a 10 page mental breakdown when the Patterson/Reich et. al. Britain paper came out with all of those J2b-L283 samples. If anything he always tried to downplay the J2b-L283 samples no matter which paper they were published in.

Apart from all of the narrative driven spam posts of his, the fake news he constantly spread to me are a major crossing the line behavior. He should have faced consequences for that, but it's the freedom of the internet fora, I guess.

Egzona's opinion of Bruzmi will never change, that's one loyal cheerleader right there.

 

[mount123]

Lol, he just posted about the two lectures tomorrow that will happen by matzinger and co about Albanian, and he said they are in line with Hyllested 2022 and posted that phylogeny tree. The lectures havent even happened yet and hes already doing propaganda and misinformation about them.

He has insider info As he did with the Thracian samples

 

[Hawk]

So, the Yugoslav couple Garasanin are considered one of the best Balkan archaeologists who have the respect of all their colleagues from Balkans. This is what Draga Garasanin said about the Psenicevo Culture (Kapitan Andreevo/Svilengrad).

In the above survey, we have tried to offer, on the basis of the available archaeological material, a picture of the Bronze Age and its cultural and chronological development during the centuries that this important period in prehistory belongs to. The distinction between cultural areas, depends to a great deal on the geographic and topographic character of the land, and indicates the basis for finer distinctions of the written sources that pertain to the Paleobalkan peoples. It is very important, that during the whole Bronze Age a continuity can be followed that extends to the period of transition into the Iron Age. This is characteristic of all the cultural groups of this area, including the Dubovac-Zuto Brdo, which in Oltenia is followed by the Insula Banului group and later the Bassarabi group in these parts and Transylvania (compare also some of the finds from Saraorci near Smederevo). In Thrace at this time we have the appearance of the new group, the so called Psenicevo which kept close contacts with the peoples of the Morava Lands area as can be seen from the finds in the Mediana group. It can also be noticed that the people, who during this period lived in the Morava Lands area took part if only partially in the movements attributed to the so called Aegean Migration. In this manner, the Bronze Age evolves as a very important stage in the process of formation of the Paleobalkan peoples, their ethnogenesis, and the historical events that have left their imprint, in a sense on the historical evolution of the old Balkans. Until now, enough attention has not been paid to this very important period in the ancient history of southeastern Europe except among the small circle of interested specialists. It is the purpose of this exhibition, to try and fulfill this gap, and offer a more understanding picture of this, not too well known period. We shall be very pleased if this exhibition and this short accompanying survey helped in any way to achieve this aim.

https://www.rastko.rs/arheologija/dgarasanin-the_bronze.htm

I know that Gava/Black-Burnished Ware or Channeled-Ware came on top during LBA, but during EMBA some of Vatin people colonized North Carpathian where subsequently during LBA Gava was formed. It's very hard to pin-point the exact origin within one cultural-sphere, especially Balkan-Danubian/Balkan-Carpathian. But, 1 thing is clear, no matter the autosomal those EIA E-V13 samples came from elsewhere, and the most likely place of origin is North-East Serbia/North-West Bulgaria/South-West Romania, to the west of them probably there were a lot of their E-V13 cousins.

 

[Excine]

I will refrain from calling you names because it is very clear that you are not older than 18 years old. But if you please, you used the pronoun "Neo-Illyrian" on both AG and Eupedia for a number of months before you came to your senses and recognized how effing ridiculous the phrase was.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

You make me laugh so hard with your wild speculations.

Laugh as hard you need to. DNA testing companies are not simply providing you a service, they are also collecting that data which they share with intelligence agencies. That's the reality of how the world works. Cope with that with a laughter.

 

[Excine]

Laugh as hard you need to. DNA testing companies are not simply providing you a service, they are also collecting that data which they share with intelligence agencies. That's the reality of how the world works. Cope with that with a laughter.

Okay, as long as clinging to your conspiracy theories allows you to get a good night's rest, keep doing what you're doing.

 

[Hawk]

1) The E-V13s in Croatia appear in the Roman period, only one individual appears in the context of Illyrian period. This is not even a 5% ratio. You're not being honest in your approach. E-V13 is not Illyrian, that's clear as day.
2) Nish is Dardanian-Thracian territory, not Illyrian and we have a E-V13 that's autosomially where we want it. Nish sample is actually an argument for a west Thracian or Dardanian approach.

To be clear, those E-V13 in Roman times didn't look like they came from somewhere else far away. To me it looks like we should expect E-V13 to be present somewhat among Pannonian-Illyrians, at how much degree i am not sure. But the Illyrii proprii dictii are for certainly mostly J2b2-L283 with some R1b-Z2103 and R1b-L51.

I know one of the Rrenjet admins mentioned that he expects E-V13 to show in Iron Age Albania among the 2nd bulk of samples. Whether he made a leak or just his own assumption we shall see.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Okay, as long as clinging to your conspiracy theories allows you to get a good night's rest, keep doing what you're doing.

I can face reality as it is. Prove me wrong get your booster shots, you'll sleep better than me, a nice eternal sleep.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

To be clear, those E-V13 in Roman times didn't look like they came from somewhere else far away. To me it looks like we should expect E-V13 to be present somewhat among Pannonian-Illyrians, at how much degree i am not sure. But the Illyrii proprii dictii are for certainly mostly J2b2-L283 with some R1b-Z2103 and R1b-L51.

I know one of the Rrenjet admins mentioned that he expects E-V13 to show in Iron Age Albania among the 2nd bulk of samples. Whether he made a leak or just his own assumption we shall see.

Only one E-V13 shows up in the BC period, still Roman, the rest are Roman AD. They pile up as Roman rule ages, that should raise an eyebrow.

There are also the autosomal heatmaps of the Croatian Roman samples that were posted in this forum, I did not look up the haplotype, but some of those graphs(not all), in addition to showing proximity to Albanians(and Greeks), they also showed secondary proximity to Bulgarians and southern Romanians. If you remove the Slavic mixtures in these two population, the relationship is likely just as close to that of Albanians. To me that raises an eyebrow and points to mixture from central Balkans moving into coastal Croatia.

 

[Excine]

I can face reality as it is. Prove me wrong get your booster shots, you'll sleep better than me, a nice eternal sleep.

Wow, you really are quite enigmatic. Stop sidetracking the discussion, you slowpoke. Your opinions on vaccinations are irrelevant to everyone.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Wow, you really are quite enigmatic. Stop sidetracking the discussion, you slowpoke. Your opinions on vaccinations are irrelevant to everyone.

You're too smart for conspiracy theories, roll your arm and get your 4th and 5th shot, if you don't, big bad covid will kidnap you in the darkness of the night. Be a good boy, do the right thing.

I'll give you a free donut, how about that?

 

[Hawk]

Only one E-V13 shows up in the BC period, still Roman, the rest are Roman AD. They pile up as Roman rule ages, that should raise an eyebrow.

There are also the autosomal heatmaps of the Croatian Roman samples that were posted in this forum, I did not look up the haplotype, but some of those graphs(not all), in addition to showing proximity to Albanians(and Greeks), they also showed secondary proximity to Bulgarians and southern Romanians. If you remove the Slavic mixtures in these two population, the relationship is likely just as close to that of Albanians. To me that raises an eyebrow and points to mixture from central Balkans moving into coastal Croatia.

One E-V13 from Iron Age La Tene IV-III B.C is from Western Hungary, i looked at the archaeological site, Hungarian archaeologists consider it as Pannonian-Illyrian site before the La Tene Celtic invasion. His autosomal points that he might have been native, despite that some rare but still E-V13 clades appear among La Tene Celts, even in Southern France, Czech Republic, Western Slovakia, they either were there from LBA/EIA Urnfield expansion or latter. I just don't see how during historical times the Thracians would spread it from Bulgaria to Serbia and beyond, or via Scythians-Cimmerians, it's not believable. I am 100% convinced the cremation bias must play a role here in EIA Central Balkans.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

One E-V13 from Iron Age La Tene IV-III B.C is from Western Hungary, i looked at the archaeological site, Hungarian archaeologists consider it as Pannonian-Illyrian site before the La Tene Celtic invasion.

Hawk, I get it, but that doesn't explain how the ratio increases as Roman rule ages. You know? I personally can't ignore that, unless we see similar ratios in the Iron Age, but that ship has clearly sailed, we have giant sample on Illyrians, increasing the sample size to all dead Illyrians will not change this.

 

[Excine]

You're too smart for conspiracy theories, roll your arm and get your 4th and 5th shot, if you don't, big bad covid will kidnap you in the darkness of the night. Be a good boy, do the right thing.

I'll give you a free donut, how about that?

Enough trolling.

 

[Hawk]

Hawk, I get it, but that doesn't explain how the ratio increases as Roman rule ages. You know? I personally can't ignore that, unless we see similar ratios in the Iron Age, but that ship has clearly sailed, we have giant sample on Illyrians, increasing the sample size to all dead Illyrians will not change this.

Illyrians proper are a clear case, even on more South, they follow the same burial rite which means the same material culture, perhaps with exceptions of Enchelei who just part of them might be related with Dardanians anyway. Hammond noticed that the same tribe was ruling both among Enchelei and Dardani, Peresadyes. He put a connection dot there, i looked into burial rite and same burial rite (cremation on a pyre with low tumuli underneath) appears among both. Would be surprised if that's purely a coincidence.

 

[Illyria]

I can face reality as it is. Prove me wrong get your booster shots, you'll sleep better than me, a nice eternal sleep.

Wishing death on another Albanian internet stranger Your intelligence is SHINING!!! I can tell you're very passionate about Albanian origins, in good faith!

 

[mount123]

1) The E-V13s in Croatia appear in the Roman period, only one individual appears in the context of Illyrian period. This is not even a 5% ratio. You're not being honest in your approach. E-V13 is not Illyrian, that's clear as day.
2) Nish is Dardanian-Thracian territory, not Illyrian and we have a E-V13 that's autosomially where we want it. Nish sample is actually an argument for a west Thracian or Dardanian approach.

Go back to the the chart, the Bulgarian Bronze Age samples border the Paeonian samples, all central Balkans was initially Paeonian like, You can't rule out west Thracian or Moesian being autosomally washed in this R1b reservoir, the lone Nish sample hints at this, more data will clear it up. And the same goes for Illyrians, some of them, especially the Cinamak, overlap with Paeonian. You shouldn't ignore geography here.

Yes, the bold part especially. Also, something which does not really ring a bell in some: there was always mobility, trade, expansions, fusions etc. such that the presence of a certain lineage in neighboring groups is not surprising.

To be clear, those E-V13 in Roman times didn't look like they came from somewhere else far away. To me it looks like we should expect E-V13 to be present somewhat among Pannonian-Illyrians, at how much degree i am not sure. But the Illyrii proprii dictii are for certainly mostly J2b2-L283 with some R1b-Z2103 and R1b-L51.

I know one of the Rrenjet admins mentioned that he expects E-V13 to show in Iron Age Albania among the 2nd bulk of samples. Whether he made a leak or just his own assumption we shall see.

There is an Illyrian core in both archeology and now also proven by population genetics. I would not equate Pannonians with Illyrians, they are a seperate intermediary group with a strong TC culture derived fundament to their ethnos.

With Rrenjet do you mean Alban Lauka? I am not sure if he actually would know something judging on his comments about the Lalueza Fox paper. But E1b-V13 would most likely show up in Albania. Given the results of the Bryges/Paeonians Albania will surely yield other R1b-Z2103 samples too.

 

[Hawk]

There is an Illyrian core in both archeology and now also proven by population genetics. I would not equate Pannonians with Illyrians, they are a seperate intermediary group with a strong TC culture derived fundament to their ethnos.

With Rrenjet do you mean Alban Lauka? I am not sure if he actually would know something judging on his comments about the Lalueza Fox paper. But E1b-V13 would most likely show up in Albania. Given the results of the Bryges/Paeonians Albania will surely yield other R1b-Z2103 samples too.

Middle Danubian Urnfield + Eastern Urnfield + Glasinac-Mat on the south probably. And, they are interesting case indeed, not much to find anyway regarding them.

As far as i remember the account name was gjergj. But he didn't wrote leak, he explicitely said i expect which might indicate his own personal assumption.