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No, Amun is not 'the real Zeus'. Zeus is from proto-Indo-European Dyeus Phter (Sky Father). Zeus is most certainly not a god adopted by the Greeks from Egypt. The most you could say, speculatively, is that they have a common origin.
Danaus, Cadmus etc were Greeks, descended from Inachus the king of Argos. That's why Danaus returns to Greece, the land of his ancestors, and claims the throne of Argos.
If you want to mix mythology with DNA, I might as well point out that 18th dynasty pharaohs of Egypt Amenhotep III, Akhenaten and Tutankhamun had Y-DNA R1b-M269, an Indo-European lineage, and Amenhotep III also had mtDNA H2b, an Indo-Aryan lineage, inherited from his Mitanni mother.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/69716881@N02/8624987998No, Amun is not 'the real Zeus'. Zeus is from proto-Indo-European Dyeus Phter (Sky Father). Zeus is most certainly not a god adopted by the Greeks from Egypt. The most you could say, speculatively, is that they have a common origin.
Danaus, Cadmus etc were Greeks, descended from Inachus the king of Argos. That's why Danaus returns to Greece, the land of his ancestors, and claims the throne of Argos.
If you want to mix mythology with DNA, I might as well point out that 18th dynasty pharaohs of Egypt Amenhotep III, Akhenaten and Tutankhamun had Y-DNA R1b-M269, an Indo-European lineage, and Amenhotep III also had mtDNA H2b, an Indo-Aryan lineage, inherited from his Mitanni mother.
I have ancient greek sources. Why dont you just quote some saying this is false from ancient greek text. Herodotus is the oldest known greek historian of carian decent.Don't you people ever get tired of posting the re-telling of legends as actual heroes? Get a grip.
Ramses the third and his a mummy buried next to him were both shown to be e1b1a-M2. The mummy is thought to be the son Pentawaret. Which makes sense. I always thought of egyptians as mixed.
I dont see anything saying those 3 you mentioned had R-M269.
Just says R1b. On wiki it says their r1b clade was not even determined.
R1b is pre indo european.
But R1b is also present in sub sahara africa and north africa.
I have ancient greek sources. Why dont you just quote some saying this is false from ancient greek text. Herodotus is the oldest known greek historian of carian decent.
Herodotus was not a historian in the modern sense of the term. Sometimes he reported facts known in his time, other times not, especially in the more ethnographic part of his writings, it did not always contain things that really happened.
You cannot read ancient authors without having a basis in history, archeology, anthropology, linguistics, and above all without knowing what the scholars of the last 60 years at least have written on the texts of ancient authors.
Would really like to compare Theopetra and Sarakenos to modern populations. And also o Iron Age Paeonians, Illyrians and Logas. I wonder if the 'Balkans' encirclement includes mainland Greece. Seems to me that Sarakenos is very similar to Cretans, while Theopetra might be very similar to mainland Greece today.
So far Sarakenos, Theopetra, Logas 01 and 02, Crete_Armenoi and the Marathon sample seem to be closer to modern Greeks than the four Mycenaeans of the Lazaridis study. And out of those four Mycenaens, two were from Crete. I leave out all the other specimens, because they are either from Sicily or Spain. Who knows who they may have intermixed with. That makes me think whether the earlier image we had developed for Mycenaens is correct. We only have two out of a total of zeven Ancient Greeks from the mainland with a low rate of steppe vs Minoan (1:10). They other five are more like 1:5, or even 1:4.
Distance to: | GRC_Mycenaean_(n=15) |
---|---|
0.01049552 | ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1 |
0.02023135 | Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2 |
0.02360508 | BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA |
0.03057226 | BGR_Anc |
0.03125336 | GRC_Koufonisi_Cycladic_EBA |
0.03189316 | BGR_IA |
0.03294215 | ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA_o |
0.03420535 | GRC_Kastrouli_Anc |
0.03561312 | ITA_Tarquinia_Imperial |
0.03846649 | TUR_Aegean_Izmir_Yassitepe_MBA |
So instead of providing some kind of evidence that refutes it, you just tell me he was not a historian. He is the most ancient historian of his time who went around interviewing different people of their time. I already posted the ammon zues bust from 500 bc depicting zues with goat horns to go along.
It is you who should bring evidence of what you claim. Making a copy and paste of stuff found on the internet, as you do, some of which is attributed to ancient authors, is not evidence.
I have ancient greek sources. Why dont you just quote some saying this is false from ancient greek text. Herodotus is the oldest known greek historian of carian decent.
Funny says hereHe's a story teller not a historian or an ethnographer. His travels are not extensive enough to gain first hand knowledge of all the different tribes and ethnicities. Even he admits that some of what he writes are second hand sources. Thucydides even complained that he was a story teller.
You say that in Lazaridis' Minoan/Mycenaean paper, 2/4 Mycenaeans are from Crete? This is false. 2 were from Galatas in Argolis, 1 was from Pylos in Messenia, and 1 was from Salamis in Attica.
Additionally, you seem to ignore all the new Mycenaean samples from the recent Southern Arc paper, which added an additional 11 new Mycenaean samples from mainland Greece, and also 2 archaic Greek samples. Of the Mycenaeans, 6 were from Pylos, 3 were from Attica and 2 were from Kastrouli in southern Phocis.
While there is variability in the amount of Steppe, their average is not so different from the Mycenaean average that we had previously.
To make things more interesting, when averaging all 15 Mycenaean samples together, their average is almost identical to the average of the genetic cluster 480BCE_1 from Himera, which the paper identified as definite Greek soldiers. They are also very similar to the two Phocaean colonists from Empuries in Spain, and the Thracians from southern Thrace.
I'm also not sure why you think either the Empuries or the Himeran 480BCE_1 cluster show any signs of having non-Greek admixture. A shift towards Spain and/or Sicily is usually pretty apparent, especially because Greeks of this time period lacked HG admixture which is more abundant in western Europe. A few of the 409BCE Himera samples show an obvious shift towards the Sicani for this reason, as highlighted in the paper itself.
Now, I do agree that the Theopetra samples are certainly interesting, but don't forget that 1. they predate the Mycenaean culture and 2. they aren't even from a location that was part of the Mycenaean world either. I do agree that it's very possible that parts of Greece, especially those outside of the world of the Mycenaeans, may have had much more Steppe admixture but it remains to be seen if this is actually true in the LBA/IA/Classical time periods. Iron Age/Classical era samples from Epirus, Thessaly and Macedonia are definitely needed to shed some light into the genetic structure of northern Greece.
And Logkas as well. The samples found near lake Ohrid could be Molossians. They are quite similar to the Logkas samples. So Mycenaen, Marathon-type and something similar to Logkas could be the three outliers in Classical Greece.That being said, I do think most Greeks in the areas in question will be a mix of Marathon-type autosomal and the Mycenaean/Himeran-type autosomal, judging by the east-to-west population movements that were occuring in the Roman and Byzantine periods.
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