Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

[Riverman]

Individual Slovak IA (probably Dacians in Celtic zones) show affinity to both Himera E-V13s, that and Cimmerian MJ-12 are indicators of Carpathian zone. I10946 seems to have lived in Hungary, while I10950 in Wallachia. The problem is cremation, we are getting reads by proxies and not direct populations, especially for I10946 (look at the poor fit).

I definitely agree that we will get much better fits once we get actual more Northern Daco-Thracians, from areas like Northern Serbia-Southern Romania (Basarabi) or Moldovan locals (Getae) and Kustanovice (Proto-Dacians?). However, like you say, for some of these groups the cremation problem is hard to solve, because we have only a handful of irregularly buried individuals, which exact connection to the majority population which regularly cremated is not sure. Basically if they are too much like other people, we have to assume they are foreigners - if they have a more unique profile, we can be pretty sure they are locals.
E.g., if any Pre-G?va related finds are too much like Tumulus culture and F?zesabony, we have to assume they come from that sphere, rather than being local. Because they were newcomers in the Carpathians, largely unrelated to the locals.

 

[Hawk]

I10950 has zero Illyrian, add the following components:

I10950 seems to be Gava plus Bronze Age R1b-Z2103 genetics. There is not one true Illyrian profile in the Himera mass grave, but we have Uralic profiles. To me that indicates the mercenaries were recruited on the Black Sea ports. I10946 is the only one that shows west of Danube signals.

Individual Slovak IA (probably Dacians in Celtic zones) show affinity to both Himera E-V13s, that and Cimmerian MJ-12 are indicators of Carpathian zone. I10946 seems to have lived in Hungary, while I10950 in Wallachia. The problem is cremation, we are getting reads by proxies and not direct populations, especially for I10946 (look at the poor fit).

Here is a model:

East_Balkans:BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:I20181,0.119514,0.157407,0.007165,-0.039083,0.028621,-0.023985,-0.003995,-0.003923,0.014726,0.04319,0.002923,0.008692,-0.0278,0.003165,-0.016422,0.003315,0.032074,0.008108,0.018603,-0.004252,-0.00836,-0.000742,-0.010106,0.002289,-0.016885
East_Balkans:BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:I20183,0.120652,0.160454,0.010559,-0.041344,0.030775,-0.02259,0.00282,-0.003,0.017794,0.047017,0.003085,0.013488,-0.008771,-0.004954,-0.029587,0.005171,0.024903,0.003674,0.008673,-0.001,-0.004866,-0.00371,0.000739,0.005784,-0.011017
East_Balkans:Scythian_MDA:scy197,0.122929,0.140143,0.029415,-0.023902,0.023081,-0.012829,0.015511,-0.005307,0.00225,0.035172,-0.005846,-0.001349,-0.01115,0.000275,-0.010586,-0.0118,0.001434,-0.000127,0.013324,-0.010255,-0.004742,-0.000989,0.003328,-0.002771,-0.008981
East_Balkans:BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:I20186,0.122929,0.155376,0.007542,-0.059755,0.031698,-0.025937,0.0047,-0.005077,0.009408,0.049204,-0.001624,0.009292,-0.020069,0.007432,-0.028637,-0.016706,-0.001043,0.000633,0.01433,-0.010505,-0.009733,0.001855,-0.005669,0.003976,-0.002515
East_Balkans:UKR_Cimmerian_o:MJ12,0.135449,0.138112,0.015462,-0.012274,0.020927,-0.008088,0.00235,-0.007384,-0.006545,0.034625,0.000487,0.008542,-0.008325,-0.008533,-0.014522,0.005171,0.025946,-0.000127,0.011439,0.005878,-0.019091,0.007666,0.004067,0.011929,-0.000239
Western_Balkans:HRV_IA:I5723,0.124067,0.152329,0.039221,-0.006783,0.045239,-0.00251,0.00188,-0.003231,0.012271,0.030616,-0.004547,0.006444,-0.016501,-0.003441,-0.010043,0.003447,-0.000913,0.000887,0.004902,0.002376,-0.00836,0.001607,-0.004437,-0.001205,0.001557
Western_Balkans:HRV_IA:I5724,0.126344,0.152329,0.027907,0.006783,0.033237,-0.00753,0.006815,0.003923,0.01493,0.028976,-0.000162,0.008393,-0.009663,-0.00812,-0.007465,0.001458,-0.002086,0.007348,0.011816,-0.003377,-0.005989,0.011871,0.002095,-0.010724,0.000479
Western_Balkans:MNE_LBA:I13168,0.127482,0.150298,0.025644,0,0.031083,-0.001394,-0.000235,0.001846,0.006545,0.027518,0.005846,0.006894,-0.019177,-0.004817,-0.012758,0.00053,0.012386,0.002027,0.003394,-0.006253,-0.006988,0.008037,-0.004314,0.008194,-0.003233
Western_Balkans:MNE_LBA:I13169,0.129758,0.142174,0.027907,-0.01615,0.031083,-0.005857,0.000235,0.000923,0.011862,0.029158,0.00747,0.003897,-0.011298,-0.013625,-0.014115,-0.002784,0.004433,-0.007475,0.003771,-0.004877,-0.015098,0.013973,-0.001602,0.002048,-0.003113
Western_Balkans:ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14690,0.125205,0.149283,0.034318,-0.00646,0.029544,-0.005857,-0.001175,0.004846,-0.00225,0.019681,0.001461,0.002698,-0.020069,-0.006468,-0.003122,0.002121,0.001825,0.003167,0.002011,-0.002501,-0.007861,0.003462,0.005423,-0.004217,-0.005269
Western_Balkans:ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14692,0.125205,0.152329,0.025644,-0.010336,0.019388,0.001116,-0.008695,0.003461,0.006136,0.025878,0.007145,0.010641,-0.018583,-0.00234,-0.011536,-0.006099,0.008605,0.00038,0.009679,-0.004877,-0.010981,-0.006183,-0.001479,0.012411,0.003113
Southern_Balkans:GRC_Mycenaean_Attica_BA:I16709,0.130897,0.177718,-0.004148,-0.060078,0.026466,-0.027889,0.01081,-0.004846,0.002659,0.036629,0.002598,0.020831,-0.018731,0.013625,-0.036237,-0.020817,-0.005867,0.002407,0.001885,-0.007629,-0.018093,0.011252,-0.002835,0.000723,0.000239
Southern_Balkans:GRC_Mycenaean_Kastrouli_BA:I13577,0.129758,0.164516,0.008297,-0.052972,0.02739,-0.025937,-0.00517,-0.002538,0.005931,0.027882,0.008444,0.006894,-0.02215,-0.003853,-0.018594,-0.003315,0.022296,0.000507,0.013952,-0.003126,-0.014724,-0.00779,0.00949,0.000482,-0.007424
Central_Balkans:MKD_Skopje_Anc:I10379,0.129758,0.149283,0.021873,-0.027132,0.027082,-0.012829,0.005875,0.001846,0.002659,0.034989,-0.001461,0.01169,-0.007284,-0.003716,-0.019137,0.008353,0.029206,-0.002154,0.005656,0.001876,-0.018093,0.002349,-0.002095,0.008435,-0.004311
Central_Europe:HUN_IA_La_Tene:I18528,0.12862,0.145221,0.038089,-0.000323,0.037853,-0.002789,0.002585,0.004846,0.011044,0.016948,0.001137,0.003747,-0.01115,0.004129,-0.003936,-0.003447,0.007693,-0.004941,0.000251,0.006503,-0.006988,0.004575,-0.007395,-0.006989,-0.00958
Central_Europe:HUN_IA_La_Tene:I18529,0.127482,0.142174,0.034695,0.002907,0.039084,-0.009482,0.005875,0.005538,0.015135,0.02442,-0.003248,0.002847,-0.010704,-0.000963,-0.007736,0.003447,0.010822,-0.00266,-0.002388,-0.009004,-0.003993,0.008903,-0.001725,0.001205,-0.003473
Central_Europe:HUN_IA_La_Tene:I18530,0.124067,0.146236,0.046763,0.013243,0.049548,0.008367,-0.004465,0.009,0.018612,0.025695,-0.003735,0.004646,-0.019029,-0.006055,0.002714,0.005038,0.01017,-0.001774,0.00264,-0.001626,0.010357,0.007048,-0.000616,-0.010483,0.004191
Central_Europe:CZE_IA_Hallstatt:I15071,0.129758,0.146236,0.058077,0.024225,0.04647,0.006693,0.00893,0.003923,-0.004704,0.004374,-0.006008,0.015586,-0.014123,-0.007294,0.010179,0.005304,-0.005998,-0.005828,0.000754,0.003502,0.000374,-0.003957,0.002958,-0.015544,0.001078
Central_Europe:CZE_IA_Hallstatt:I16088,0.127482,0.13405,0.053928,0.040698,0.037853,0.001952,0.017156,0.009692,0.010022,0.01549,-0.001949,-0.001049,-0.006095,-0.004679,-0.000407,0.002121,0.003129,-0.004307,0.010307,-0.002001,-0.000499,-0.007666,0.005053,-0.003615,0.003113

target

E-V13_SRB_Viminacium:R3931___AD_180,0.127482,0.113739,0.058831,0.049742,0.028928,0.020917,0.004465,-0.000923,0.004295,-0.005832,0.005684,0.000899,0.003717,0.006055,-0.001086,0.01485,0.022817,-0.002534,0.000628,0.000875,-0.013351,0.00371,0.003328,0.001928,-0.008263
E-V13_HRV_Scitarjevo:R3659___AD_313,0.122929,0.153345,0.026021,0,0.024928,-0.009203,-0.003055,-0.004615,0.011658,0.016401,0.006658,0.008692,-0.015015,-0.005092,-0.001357,-0.009944,-0.005085,0.0019,0.006285,-0.011631,-0.004866,0.000989,-0.008134,-0.004699,0.004311
E-V13SRB_Naissus:R6764___AD_330,0.120652,0.161469,0.017725,-0.031008,0.040315,-0.018128,0.000705,-0.000923,0.005727,0.037358,0.007307,0.013638,-0.016799,0.003303,-0.019001,0.006364,0.029597,-0.00038,0.010936,-0.004627,-0.007237,-0.002968,-0.006779,-0.004217,-0.010538
ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_2:I10950,0.129758,0.142174,0.028661,-0.007429,0.039084,-0.008088,0.005875,0.005077,0.005318,0.031345,0.000487,0.009142,-0.00996,0.004679,-0.019679,-0.004508,0.01682,-0.00076,0.011061,0.002376,-0.008735,0.006554,-0.001109,-0.003253,-0.000958
ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_2:I10946,0.125205,0.147252,0.02753,-0.000646,0.03693,-0.006414,-0.005405,-0.010153,0.006749,0.03262,0.009419,0.008093,-0.015015,0.006193,-0.015336,-0.016309,-0.005215,-0.002027,0.011564,-0.007879,-0.008485,0.013231,0.00037,-0.002169,0.009101

Target: ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_2:I10946 Distance: 3.0034% / 0.03003350
50.4	Western_Balkans
26.4	Central_Europe
15.8	Southern_Balkans
7.4	East_Balkans

Target: ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_2:I10950 Distance: 1.6352% / 0.01635217
46.8	Central_Europe
29.8	East_Balkans
17.6	Central_Balkans
5.8	Southern_Balkans

Target: E-V13SRB_Naissus:R6764___AD_330 Distance: 1.7712% / 0.01771151
73.8	East_Balkans
14.8	Central_Europe
6.4	Central_Balkans
5.0	Southern_Balkans

Target: E-V13_HRV_Scitarjevo:R3659___AD_313 Distance: 2.4428% / 0.02442779
78.4	Western_Balkans
14.8	Central_Europe
6.8	Southern_Balkans

Very bad fit, peculiar sample, i wonder what does he need in addition? Caucasus, Anatolian, Western Europe? I will give it a try.

Target: E-V13_SRB_Viminacium:R3931___AD_180 Distance: 5.5622% / 0.05562234
96.2	Central_Europe
3.8	East_Balkans

 

[Hawk]

I was right the R3931 is indeed peculiar sample.

East_Balkans:BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:I20181,0.119514,0.157407,0.007165,-0.039083,0.028621,-0.023985,-0.003995,-0.003923,0.014726,0.04319,0.002923,0.008692,-0.0278,0.003165,-0.016422,0.003315,0.032074,0.008108,0.018603,-0.004252,-0.00836,-0.000742,-0.010106,0.002289,-0.016885
East_Balkans:BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:I20183,0.120652,0.160454,0.010559,-0.041344,0.030775,-0.02259,0.00282,-0.003,0.017794,0.047017,0.003085,0.013488,-0.008771,-0.004954,-0.029587,0.005171,0.024903,0.003674,0.008673,-0.001,-0.004866,-0.00371,0.000739,0.005784,-0.011017
East_Balkans:Scythian_MDA:scy197,0.122929,0.140143,0.029415,-0.023902,0.023081,-0.012829,0.015511,-0.005307,0.00225,0.035172,-0.005846,-0.001349,-0.01115,0.000275,-0.010586,-0.0118,0.001434,-0.000127,0.013324,-0.010255,-0.004742,-0.000989,0.003328,-0.002771,-0.008981
East_Balkans:BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:I20186,0.122929,0.155376,0.007542,-0.059755,0.031698,-0.025937,0.0047,-0.005077,0.009408,0.049204,-0.001624,0.009292,-0.020069,0.007432,-0.028637,-0.016706,-0.001043,0.000633,0.01433,-0.010505,-0.009733,0.001855,-0.005669,0.003976,-0.002515
East_Balkans:UKR_Cimmerian_o:MJ12,0.135449,0.138112,0.015462,-0.012274,0.020927,-0.008088,0.00235,-0.007384,-0.006545,0.034625,0.000487,0.008542,-0.008325,-0.008533,-0.014522,0.005171,0.025946,-0.000127,0.011439,0.005878,-0.019091,0.007666,0.004067,0.011929,-0.000239
Western_Balkans:HRV_IA:I5723,0.124067,0.152329,0.039221,-0.006783,0.045239,-0.00251,0.00188,-0.003231,0.012271,0.030616,-0.004547,0.006444,-0.016501,-0.003441,-0.010043,0.003447,-0.000913,0.000887,0.004902,0.002376,-0.00836,0.001607,-0.004437,-0.001205,0.001557
Western_Balkans:HRV_IA:I5724,0.126344,0.152329,0.027907,0.006783,0.033237,-0.00753,0.006815,0.003923,0.01493,0.028976,-0.000162,0.008393,-0.009663,-0.00812,-0.007465,0.001458,-0.002086,0.007348,0.011816,-0.003377,-0.005989,0.011871,0.002095,-0.010724,0.000479
Western_Balkans:MNE_LBA:I13168,0.127482,0.150298,0.025644,0,0.031083,-0.001394,-0.000235,0.001846,0.006545,0.027518,0.005846,0.006894,-0.019177,-0.004817,-0.012758,0.00053,0.012386,0.002027,0.003394,-0.006253,-0.006988,0.008037,-0.004314,0.008194,-0.003233
Western_Balkans:MNE_LBA:I13169,0.129758,0.142174,0.027907,-0.01615,0.031083,-0.005857,0.000235,0.000923,0.011862,0.029158,0.00747,0.003897,-0.011298,-0.013625,-0.014115,-0.002784,0.004433,-0.007475,0.003771,-0.004877,-0.015098,0.013973,-0.001602,0.002048,-0.003113
Western_Balkans:ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14690,0.125205,0.149283,0.034318,-0.00646,0.029544,-0.005857,-0.001175,0.004846,-0.00225,0.019681,0.001461,0.002698,-0.020069,-0.006468,-0.003122,0.002121,0.001825,0.003167,0.002011,-0.002501,-0.007861,0.003462,0.005423,-0.004217,-0.005269
Western_Balkans:ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14692,0.125205,0.152329,0.025644,-0.010336,0.019388,0.001116,-0.008695,0.003461,0.006136,0.025878,0.007145,0.010641,-0.018583,-0.00234,-0.011536,-0.006099,0.008605,0.00038,0.009679,-0.004877,-0.010981,-0.006183,-0.001479,0.012411,0.003113
Southern_Balkans:GRC_Mycenaean_Attica_BA:I16709,0.130897,0.177718,-0.004148,-0.060078,0.026466,-0.027889,0.01081,-0.004846,0.002659,0.036629,0.002598,0.020831,-0.018731,0.013625,-0.036237,-0.020817,-0.005867,0.002407,0.001885,-0.007629,-0.018093,0.011252,-0.002835,0.000723,0.000239
Southern_Balkans:GRC_Mycenaean_Kastrouli_BA:I13577,0.129758,0.164516,0.008297,-0.052972,0.02739,-0.025937,-0.00517,-0.002538,0.005931,0.027882,0.008444,0.006894,-0.02215,-0.003853,-0.018594,-0.003315,0.022296,0.000507,0.013952,-0.003126,-0.014724,-0.00779,0.00949,0.000482,-0.007424
Central_Balkans:MKD_Skopje_Anc:I10379,0.129758,0.149283,0.021873,-0.027132,0.027082,-0.012829,0.005875,0.001846,0.002659,0.034989,-0.001461,0.01169,-0.007284,-0.003716,-0.019137,0.008353,0.029206,-0.002154,0.005656,0.001876,-0.018093,0.002349,-0.002095,0.008435,-0.004311
Central_Europe:HUN_IA_La_Tene:I18528,0.12862,0.145221,0.038089,-0.000323,0.037853,-0.002789,0.002585,0.004846,0.011044,0.016948,0.001137,0.003747,-0.01115,0.004129,-0.003936,-0.003447,0.007693,-0.004941,0.000251,0.006503,-0.006988,0.004575,-0.007395,-0.006989,-0.00958
Central_Europe:HUN_IA_La_Tene:I18529,0.127482,0.142174,0.034695,0.002907,0.039084,-0.009482,0.005875,0.005538,0.015135,0.02442,-0.003248,0.002847,-0.010704,-0.000963,-0.007736,0.003447,0.010822,-0.00266,-0.002388,-0.009004,-0.003993,0.008903,-0.001725,0.001205,-0.003473
Central_Europe:HUN_IA_La_Tene:I18530,0.124067,0.146236,0.046763,0.013243,0.049548,0.008367,-0.004465,0.009,0.018612,0.025695,-0.003735,0.004646,-0.019029,-0.006055,0.002714,0.005038,0.01017,-0.001774,0.00264,-0.001626,0.010357,0.007048,-0.000616,-0.010483,0.004191
Central_Europe:CZE_IA_Hallstatt:I15071,0.129758,0.146236,0.058077,0.024225,0.04647,0.006693,0.00893,0.003923,-0.004704,0.004374,-0.006008,0.015586,-0.014123,-0.007294,0.010179,0.005304,-0.005998,-0.005828,0.000754,0.003502,0.000374,-0.003957,0.002958,-0.015544,0.001078
Central_Europe:CZE_IA_Hallstatt:I16088,0.127482,0.13405,0.053928,0.040698,0.037853,0.001952,0.017156,0.009692,0.010022,0.01549,-0.001949,-0.001049,-0.006095,-0.004679,-0.000407,0.002121,0.003129,-0.004307,0.010307,-0.002001,-0.000499,-0.007666,0.005053,-0.003615,0.003113
Western_Europe:FRA_Alsace_IA1:NOR2B6,0.127482,0.150298,0.047894,0.009044,0.044624,0.002789,-0.015511,0.010153,0.018816,0.018588,0.012991,0.019183,-0.001784,-0.00812,0.013979,0.01538,0.026859,0.004054,0.004525,0.003627,-0.000499,-0.006925,-0.004807,-0.000241,-0.012214
Western_Europe:FRA_Alsace_IA1:NOR3-6,0.137726,0.152329,0.054305,0.047481,0.030467,0.021196,-0.005405,0,0.010022,0.003645,-0.003735,0.021881,-0.019177,-0.012524,0.024973,-0.008221,-0.024512,0.011782,0.001634,0.008504,0.002745,0.002597,-0.009244,-0.004338,-0.000239
Western_Europe:England_EastYorkshire_MIA_LIA_low_res:I5504,0.134311,0.122879,0.073161,0.040698,0.057857,0.024263,0.023031,0.014538,-0.01493,-0.00656,0.01835,0.001798,-0.032259,-0.008533,0.005565,0.003713,-0.010952,-0.017356,0.00817,0.017258,0.027327,0.003091,-0.006409,0.005784,0.001078
West_Asia:ARM_Bagheri_Tchala_EIA:I14066,0.111547,0.126941,-0.038843,-0.015827,-0.033237,0.003068,0.007755,-0.008307,-0.047654,-0.030069,-0.002761,0.004646,-0.009514,-0.006193,0.012079,-0.000928,0.002738,0,-0.004399,0.006003,0.003244,-0.000247,0.001725,-0.007591,-0.001317
West_Asia:ARM_Bagheri_Tchala_EIA:I14588,0.108132,0.123895,-0.043369,-0.014212,-0.033852,-0.00502,0,-0.002308,-0.04295,-0.024055,-0.000487,0.006744,-0.015015,-0.000963,0.000543,-0.001193,0.007823,-0.003421,-0.001257,0.001251,0.001373,-0.002473,-0.000493,-0.000964,-0.002036
Northern_Europe:SWE_IA:RISE174,0.122929,0.123895,0.067127,0.058463,0.041238,0.02008,0.005875,0.007615,0.002863,-0.009659,0.003735,0.001948,-0.006987,0.003853,0.020358,-0.006762,-0.015385,0.006461,0.009427,0.00025,0.00025,0.002844,0.002465,0.011447,0.000359

Adding SWE IA, reduced but not to accepting percentage.

Target: E-V13_SRB_Viminacium:R3931___AD_180 Distance: 4.6981% / 0.04698088
53.6	Northern_Europe
20.6	Central_Europe
11.8	East_Balkans
11.4	Western_Europe
2.6	West_Asia

edit:

Baltic:Baltic_EST_IA:s19_0LS10_1,0.127482,0.089367,0.102954,0.102391,0.035083,0.03263,0.00799,0.016153,-0.007158,-0.046835,0.011205,-0.019782,0.02884,0.000275,-0.005293,0.008221,0.021513,0.000633,-0.000628,0.006128,-0.000125,0.000247,-0.00456,-0.01687,0.001916

looks like Baltic IA from Estonia sorted out to more reasonable percentage

Target: E-V13_SRB_Viminacium:R3931___AD_180 Distance: 2.4674% / 0.02467424
41.2	Baltic
33.8	East_Balkans
12.4	Northern_Europe
12.2	Western_Europe
0.4	West_Asia

 

[PaleoRevenge]

The following Slovak IA samples are relevant to the Himera mercenaries.

SVK_IA_Vekerzug:I12097,0.121791,0.158423,0.016593,-0.042313,0.033237,-0.017012,-0.00611,-0.001615,0.019839,0.044466,0.000162,0.003897,-0.01115,0.009634,-0.020358,-0.021347,-0.001956,0.002914,0.011187,0.0005,-0.007986,0.004451,0.008504,-0.007953,-0.002275
SVK_IA_Vekerzug:I12098,0.126344,0.160454,0.020365,-0.011951,0.028621,-0.005857,0.00282,0.004154,0.005318,0.026789,0.001461,-0.006894,-0.002081,0.003991,-0.021037,-0.006364,0.001695,0.003801,0.005782,-0.017759,-0.003494,0.017064,0.009367,-0.007109,0.005748
SVK_IA_Vekerzug:I12110,0.12862,0.141159,0.039598,0.024548,0.052933,-0.000279,0.003995,0.005307,0.018612,0.025695,-0.004709,0.009591,-0.012042,0.002752,0.002307,-0.004773,-0.007432,0.000633,0.012821,-0.009004,-0.004367,0.000124,0.006039,-0.017231,0.006227
SVK_IA_Vekerzug:I14465,0.135449,0.149283,0.035826,-0.007429,0.04924,-0.011156,-0.003995,0.008077,0.010431,0.019499,-0.00682,0.009142,-0.007582,0.006881,-0.010993,-0.008353,0.01356,0.003674,0.006285,0.01013,-0.008735,0.010263,0.003328,-0.022292,-0.002634

The majority of SVK_IA_Vekerzug show no relation, but these four stand out. And this is what I was able to find of Vekerzug culture:

They are Scythian derived, but these four individuals have a strong unique component which is probably Dacian and why the Himera E-V13 pick them up as relatives in the calc.

 

[MOESAN]

Sorry, sincerely sorry, I left a mistaking 'not' before atta; but atta is correct in Hittite - by the way, Slavic tongues have otat, otat', otac (otats) I think.

 

[torzio]

The most recent arguments regarding Albanian come from Matzinger 2021 and Hyllested 2022.

Matzinger thinks Albanian is a Balkanic IE unlike Illyrian which is an Eastern Alpine/Western-Balkans language and belongs to different block. Matzinger believes that Albanian is not related to Thracian and its related idioms as well.

Matzinger believes Albanian has/could have a connection with Messapian instead who doesn't have connection with Illyrian.

Hyllested also put Albanian in the same group as Messapian although he admits it's still a controversial grouping, and he puts both languages under "Illyric" branch noting in quotes that it means more of a geographic rather than phylogenetic tree since he isn't sure whether all languages spoken in Western Balkans had the same source.

Ultimately, Hyllested believes Albanian shares the same origin as Greek within IE branch, probably both descending from Yamnaya (but not referring in specific Catacomb or what). It's a controversial branching but per him the best bet so far.

That's how i understood.

I am seeing that the Messapic are not even related to the daunians anymore.......but with the non-greek Chaonians

The Chaonians were mentioned for the first time by Thucydides in the 5th century BC.[7] According to Strabo, the Chaonians (along with the Molossians) were the most famous among the fourteen tribes of Epirus, because they once ruled over the whole of Epirus.[8] The Periplus of Pseudo-Scylax makes a clear distinction between the Chaonians and their northern neighbours, the Illyrian tribes that occupied the coastal and hinterland regions further north.[9]

Daunians eventually mixed with Samnites while the messapics did not


i was reading this in regards to the above
https://brill.com/view/book/edcoll/9789047442448/Bej.9789004155763.i-566_003.xml



https://www.degruyter.com › document › doi › pdf
by GK Giannakis · Cited by 1 — Messapic. Mysian. Paeonian. Phrygian.................all similar

 

[Riverman]

The following Slovak IA samples are relevant to the Himera mercenaries.




The majority of SVK_IA_Vekerzug show no relation, but these four stand out. And this is what I was able to find of Vekerzug culture:

They are Scythian derived, but these four individuals have a strong unique component which is probably Dacian and why the Himera E-V13 pick them up as relatives in the calc.

Vekerzug had some Scythian influences, but the bulk was local. In the West more Pannonian and in the East more Dacian. The Eastern Vekerzug group, which is the core, did cremate their dead in their majority, the Western did the inhumate the majority of their dead. Looking at the Vekerzug samples, a couple of them have Dacian and a couple of others clearly more Southern Thracian ancestry, which shows the connections they got.

To the North of Vekerzug was Kustanovice, also having Scythian influences, but being even more decisively Late G?va-related and Dacian. Some consider Kustanovice being kind of Proto-Dacian.

The Transylvanian group was at that time the most Scythian influenced of the three (Eastern Vekerzug, Kustanovice, Transylvanian group).

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Since we got additional data released, I updated my Croatian and Serbian Roman averages, filtered out anyone with Germanic-Celtic-Baltic mixture and anyone with excessive MENA profile. And decided to run a Balkan model strictly out of AD populations.

ALB_Mdv_900_AD:I13839,0.120652,0.151314,0.013953,-0.037468,0.030159,-0.012271,-0.001175,-0.001615,0.006136,0.025149,-0.004222,0.003897,-0.015609,0.002202,-0.019815,-0.007425,0.008605,0.006461,0.00817,-0.014257,-0.007112,0.002968,0.006039,-0.003735,-0.000599
BGR_RomByz:I18792,0.114961,0.180764,0.000754,-0.055556,0.023081,-0.02008,-0.00611,0.000462,0.017998,0.043737,-0.008607,0.001649,-0.024678,-0.017616,-0.021444,-0.00716,0.020079,-0.013302,-0.006913,-0.004752,-0.013227,0.016075,-0.006655,0.023377,-0.008981
SRB_Naissus:R6764___AD_330,0.120652,0.161469,0.017725,-0.031008,0.040315,-0.018128,0.000705,-0.000923,0.005727,0.037358,0.007307,0.013638,-0.016799,0.003303,-0.019001,0.006364,0.029597,-0.00038,0.010936,-0.004627,-0.007237,-0.002968,-0.006779,-0.004217,-0.010538
Croatia_Roman:Average,0.115021210526316,0.149924157894737,0.00924947368421053,-0.026214,0.0236317894736842,-0.00930626315789474,0.000568947368421053,-0.00106873684210526,0.005296,0.0221080526315789,0.000478631578947368,0.00553736842105263,-0.0111338947368421,-0.000738736842105263,-0.00732173684210526,-0.00759931578947368,-0.00283410526315789,-0.000246684210526316,0.00279852631578947,-0.00447573684210526,-0.00501084210526316,0.00160747368421053,-0.000343842105263158,0.000634157894736842,0.00140542105263158
SRB_Roman:Average,0.122929,0.1543604,0.0173476,-0.0280364,0.0316364,-0.009817,0.002068,0.0034616,0.0059722,0.0306156,0.0044168,0.004736,-0.009425,-0.0017068,-0.0164766,-0.0095728,-0.0008866,-0.0017484,0.005405,-0.0089544,-0.0107062,0.0031902,-0.0007888,0.0040486,0.0002636
POL_Weklice_Early_Goths:Average,0.133660714285714,0.129552571428571,0.0762861428571429,0.065892,0.043085,0.0241838571428571,0.00553942857142857,0.0118347142857143,0.00745042857142857,-0.007758,-0.00675071428571429,0.00389657142857143,-0.00736928571428571,-0.00650742857142857,0.0185354285714286,0.0119141428571429,0.00378085714285714,0.000688,0.00183171428571429,0.00644957142857143,0.007986,0.00245528571428571,-0.00151428571428571,0.011912,-0.00145414285714286
Slav_MA,0.1292408,0.1278645,0.0744299,0.0667435,0.0442321,0.0231226,0.0087166,0.012545,-0.0003718,-0.0232598,-0.00248,-0.0092645,0.0149742,0.0188792,-0.0083037,0.0013741,0.0066141,-0.0015894,0.0034395,0.003297,-0.0047075,-0.0031365,0.0046274,-0.0053785,0.0002395
Sargat_IA:Average,0.093477,-0.068548125,0.0658075,0.0608855,-0.049201625,-6.98750000000006E-05,0.003055125,0.004442,-0.01516025,-0.02890725,0.014899125,-0.00252875,0.008566625,-0.033236,0.002680375,0.001027625,-0.009664875,0.00121925,-0.001853875,-0.003329625,-0.009343,0.006244375,0.001802375,0.003057625,0.001167625
MNG_Early_Xiongnu:Average,0.0668927692307692,-0.207246076923077,0.0557848461538462,0.0257157692307692,-0.0602005384615385,-0.009375,0.00723107692307692,0.00658553846153846,-0.0122085384615385,-0.0164993846153846,-0.0166386153846154,-0.00288215384615385,-0.000903461538461539,-0.0122060769230769,0.0140104615384615,0.000917846153846154,-0.00948784615384615,0.00161784615384615,0.00147938461538462,0.00503115384615384,-0.0186401538461538,-0.00195938461538462,-0.00628553846153846,0.00203923076923077,0.00205415384615385
Serbia_&_Croatia:MENA,0.0994053333333333,0.144543333333333,-0.035324,-0.0582476666666667,-0.00913,-0.0209166666666667,-0.000391666666666667,-0.00684566666666667,-0.00763566666666667,0.012635,0.000649333333333333,0.00259766666666667,0.00619433333333333,0.00233966666666667,-0.00936433333333333,-0.00715966666666667,-0.000695333333333333,0.00114033333333333,0.00884066666666667,-0.003293,-0.00528233333333333,0.00259666666666667,-0.00271133333333333,-0.00156666666666667,-0.000239333333333333
GRC_Marathon_Rom:I7833,0.104717,0.146236,-0.02753,-0.065569,-0.000308,-0.023985,0.00188,-0.004846,-0.003068,0.005467,0.014615,0.001349,0.001338,0.001514,-0.009772,0.012066,0.024773,-0.008235,0.008296,-0.001751,-0.002745,-0.003462,0.003328,0.000361,-0.003473

 

[Hawk]

This is mine.

Target: Hawk_scaled Distance: 1.9198% / 0.01919835
38.2	ALB_Mdv_900_AD
19.8	GRC_Marathon_Rom
19.4	Slav_MA
12.6	BGR_RomByz
7.2	POL_Weklice_Early_Goths
2.8	SRB_Roman

Target: Hawk_scaled Distance: 1.9198% / 0.01919835 | ADC: 0.25x RC
38.2	ALB_Mdv_900_AD
19.8	GRC_Marathon_Rom
19.4	Slav_MA
12.6	BGR_RomByz
7.2	POL_Weklice_Early_Goths
2.8	SRB_Roman

Target: Hawk_scaled Distance: 2.4328% / 0.02432822 | ADC: 0.5x RC
42.0	ALB_Mdv_900_AD
29.4	Croatia_Roman
17.2	Slav_MA
11.4	SRB_Naissus

 

[torzio]

mine is below
Target: Veritus_scaled
Distance: 0.0203% / 0.02031836
38.9 SRB_Roman
37.1 Croatia_Roman
19.6 POL_Weklice_Early_Goths
4.4 Slav_MA


and my father below

Target: PonsanG25
Distance: 0.0098% / 0.00976811
37.2 Croatia_Roman
29.9 SRB_Roman
29.4 POL_Weklice_Early_Goths
3.2 BGR_RomByz
0.3 ALB_Mdv_900_AD

 

[torzio]

Liburnian sample results

Target: LiburniaG25
Distance: 0.0069% / 0.00687278
31.5 SRB_Roman
29.8 POL_Weklice_Early_Goths
29.2 Croatia_Roman
8.1 ALB_Mdv_900_AD
1.4 SRB_Naissus

 

[PaleoRevenge]

This is mine.

Target: Hawk_scaled Distance: 1.9198% / 0.01919835
38.2	ALB_Mdv_900_AD
19.8	GRC_Marathon_Rom
19.4	Slav_MA
12.6	BGR_RomByz
7.2	POL_Weklice_Early_Goths
2.8	SRB_Roman

You are most similar to ALB220 from Davidski's database, main difference being the lack of Goth admixture. I recalled that Zadar Polinika has a Dardanian plus Thracian profile and the Nassius has a Thracian plus Dardanian profile. And I averaged them as one, northern Ghegs seem to love this Dardanian-Thracian like profile. So I have made two codes, one with the Triballi-Dardanian average, and one where these two values are simply part of Roman Serbia average. It only makes a distinction with northern Gheg profiles, for the rest of the Balkans it's a mute point.

ALB_Mdv_900_AD:I13839,0.120652,0.151314,0.013953,-0.037468,0.030159,-0.012271,-0.001175,-0.001615,0.006136,0.025149,-0.004222,0.003897,-0.015609,0.002202,-0.019815,-0.007425,0.008605,0.006461,0.00817,-0.014257,-0.007112,0.002968,0.006039,-0.003735,-0.000599
BGR_RomByz:I18792,0.114961,0.180764,0.000754,-0.055556,0.023081,-0.02008,-0.00611,0.000462,0.017998,0.043737,-0.008607,0.001649,-0.024678,-0.017616,-0.021444,-0.00716,0.020079,-0.013302,-0.006913,-0.004752,-0.013227,0.016075,-0.006655,0.023377,-0.008981
SRB_Naissus_R6764_&_Zadar_R3746:Average,0.124636,0.159438,0.015462,-0.038437,0.033237,-0.0161755,-0.000705,-0.0002305,0.0095105,0.0406385,0.007632,0.0119895,-0.014346,-0.003234,-0.0205615,0.00358,0.0247075,0.001457,0.0093645,-0.0057525,-0.00992,-0.002906,-0.005423,-0.0001205,-0.008023
Croatia_Roman:Average,0.115198416666667,0.149113541666667,0.008328125,-0.0264321666666667,0.0232092916666667,-0.009982,0.000460208333333333,-0.000423041666666667,0.00443125,0.0210558333333333,0.0003045,0.00575129166666667,-0.0109946666666667,-0.00130733333333333,-0.00747591666666667,-0.00349691666666667,0.00145054166666667,-0.000432833333333334,0.002493125,-0.00410083333333333,-0.00466358333333333,0.00152504166666667,-0.000457083333333333,0.000612541666666667,0.00108766666666667
SRB_Roman:Average,0.122929,0.1543604,0.0173476,-0.0280364,0.0316364,-0.009817,0.002068,0.0034616,0.0059722,0.0306156,0.0044168,0.004736,-0.009425,-0.0017068,-0.0164766,-0.0095728,-0.0008866,-0.0017484,0.005405,-0.0089544,-0.0107062,0.0031902,-0.0007888,0.0040486,0.0002636
POL_Weklice_Early_Goths:Average,0.133660714285714,0.129552571428571,0.0762861428571429,0.065892,0.043085,0.0241838571428571,0.00553942857142857,0.0118347142857143,0.00745042857142857,-0.007758,-0.00675071428571429,0.00389657142857143,-0.00736928571428571,-0.00650742857142857,0.0185354285714286,0.0119141428571429,0.00378085714285714,0.000688,0.00183171428571429,0.00644957142857143,0.007986,0.00245528571428571,-0.00151428571428571,0.011912,-0.00145414285714286
Slav_MA,0.1292408,0.1278645,0.0744299,0.0667435,0.0442321,0.0231226,0.0087166,0.012545,-0.0003718,-0.0232598,-0.00248,-0.0092645,0.0149742,0.0188792,-0.0083037,0.0013741,0.0066141,-0.0015894,0.0034395,0.003297,-0.0047075,-0.0031365,0.0046274,-0.0053785,0.0002395
Sargat_IA:Average,0.093477,-0.068548125,0.0658075,0.0608855,-0.049201625,-6.98750000000006E-05,0.003055125,0.004442,-0.01516025,-0.02890725,0.014899125,-0.00252875,0.008566625,-0.033236,0.002680375,0.001027625,-0.009664875,0.00121925,-0.001853875,-0.003329625,-0.009343,0.006244375,0.001802375,0.003057625,0.001167625
MNG_Early_Xiongnu:Average,0.0668927692307692,-0.207246076923077,0.0557848461538462,0.0257157692307692,-0.0602005384615385,-0.009375,0.00723107692307692,0.00658553846153846,-0.0122085384615385,-0.0164993846153846,-0.0166386153846154,-0.00288215384615385,-0.000903461538461539,-0.0122060769230769,0.0140104615384615,0.000917846153846154,-0.00948784615384615,0.00161784615384615,0.00147938461538462,0.00503115384615384,-0.0186401538461538,-0.00195938461538462,-0.00628553846153846,0.00203923076923077,0.00205415384615385
Serbia_&_Croatia:MENA,0.0994053333333333,0.144543333333333,-0.035324,-0.0582476666666667,-0.00913,-0.0209166666666667,-0.000391666666666667,-0.00684566666666667,-0.00763566666666667,0.012635,0.000649333333333333,0.00259766666666667,0.00619433333333333,0.00233966666666667,-0.00936433333333333,-0.00715966666666667,-0.000695333333333333,0.00114033333333333,0.00884066666666667,-0.003293,-0.00528233333333333,0.00259666666666667,-0.00271133333333333,-0.00156666666666667,-0.000239333333333333
GRC_Marathon_Rom:I7833,0.104717,0.146236,-0.02753,-0.065569,-0.000308,-0.023985,0.00188,-0.004846,-0.003068,0.005467,0.014615,0.001349,0.001338,0.001514,-0.009772,0.012066,0.024773,-0.008235,0.008296,-0.001751,-0.002745,-0.003462,0.003328,0.000361,-0.003473

ALB_Mdv_900_AD:I13839,0.120652,0.151314,0.013953,-0.037468,0.030159,-0.012271,-0.001175,-0.001615,0.006136,0.025149,-0.004222,0.003897,-0.015609,0.002202,-0.019815,-0.007425,0.008605,0.006461,0.00817,-0.014257,-0.007112,0.002968,0.006039,-0.003735,-0.000599
BGR_RomByz:I18792,0.114961,0.180764,0.000754,-0.055556,0.023081,-0.02008,-0.00611,0.000462,0.017998,0.043737,-0.008607,0.001649,-0.024678,-0.017616,-0.021444,-0.00716,0.020079,-0.013302,-0.006913,-0.004752,-0.013227,0.016075,-0.006655,0.023377,-0.008981
SRB_Roman:Average,0.123416714285714,0.155811142857143,0.0168088571428571,-0.031008,0.0320937142857143,-0.0116337142857143,0.00127571428571429,0.00240671428571429,0.00698314285714286,0.0334792857142857,0.00533542857142857,0.00680842857142857,-0.010831,-0.00214314285714286,-0.0176437142857143,-0.00581485714285714,0.006426,-0.000832571428571429,0.00653628571428571,-0.00803957142857143,-0.0104815714285714,0.00144842857142857,-0.00211285714285714,0.00285742857142857,-0.002104
Croatia_Roman:Average,0.115198416666667,0.149113541666667,0.008328125,-0.0264321666666667,0.0232092916666667,-0.009982,0.000460208333333333,-0.000423041666666667,0.00443125,0.0210558333333333,0.0003045,0.00575129166666667,-0.0109946666666667,-0.00130733333333333,-0.00747591666666667,-0.00349691666666667,0.00145054166666667,-0.000432833333333334,0.002493125,-0.00410083333333333,-0.00466358333333333,0.00152504166666667,-0.000457083333333333,0.000612541666666667,0.00108766666666667
POL_Weklice_Early_Goths:Average,0.133660714285714,0.129552571428571,0.0762861428571429,0.065892,0.043085,0.0241838571428571,0.00553942857142857,0.0118347142857143,0.00745042857142857,-0.007758,-0.00675071428571429,0.00389657142857143,-0.00736928571428571,-0.00650742857142857,0.0185354285714286,0.0119141428571429,0.00378085714285714,0.000688,0.00183171428571429,0.00644957142857143,0.007986,0.00245528571428571,-0.00151428571428571,0.011912,-0.00145414285714286
Slav_MA,0.1292408,0.1278645,0.0744299,0.0667435,0.0442321,0.0231226,0.0087166,0.012545,-0.0003718,-0.0232598,-0.00248,-0.0092645,0.0149742,0.0188792,-0.0083037,0.0013741,0.0066141,-0.0015894,0.0034395,0.003297,-0.0047075,-0.0031365,0.0046274,-0.0053785,0.0002395
Sargat_IA:Average,0.093477,-0.068548125,0.0658075,0.0608855,-0.049201625,-6.98750000000006E-05,0.003055125,0.004442,-0.01516025,-0.02890725,0.014899125,-0.00252875,0.008566625,-0.033236,0.002680375,0.001027625,-0.009664875,0.00121925,-0.001853875,-0.003329625,-0.009343,0.006244375,0.001802375,0.003057625,0.001167625
MNG_Early_Xiongnu:Average,0.0668927692307692,-0.207246076923077,0.0557848461538462,0.0257157692307692,-0.0602005384615385,-0.009375,0.00723107692307692,0.00658553846153846,-0.0122085384615385,-0.0164993846153846,-0.0166386153846154,-0.00288215384615385,-0.000903461538461539,-0.0122060769230769,0.0140104615384615,0.000917846153846154,-0.00948784615384615,0.00161784615384615,0.00147938461538462,0.00503115384615384,-0.0186401538461538,-0.00195938461538462,-0.00628553846153846,0.00203923076923077,0.00205415384615385
Serbia_&_Croatia:MENA,0.0994053333333333,0.144543333333333,-0.035324,-0.0582476666666667,-0.00913,-0.0209166666666667,-0.000391666666666667,-0.00684566666666667,-0.00763566666666667,0.012635,0.000649333333333333,0.00259766666666667,0.00619433333333333,0.00233966666666667,-0.00936433333333333,-0.00715966666666667,-0.000695333333333333,0.00114033333333333,0.00884066666666667,-0.003293,-0.00528233333333333,0.00259666666666667,-0.00271133333333333,-0.00156666666666667,-0.000239333333333333
GRC_Marathon_Rom:I7833,0.104717,0.146236,-0.02753,-0.065569,-0.000308,-0.023985,0.00188,-0.004846,-0.003068,0.005467,0.014615,0.001349,0.001338,0.001514,-0.009772,0.012066,0.024773,-0.008235,0.008296,-0.001751,-0.002745,-0.003462,0.003328,0.000361,-0.003473

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Liburnian sample results

Target: LiburniaG25
Distance: 0.0069% / 0.00687278
31.5 SRB_Roman
29.8 POL_Weklice_Early_Goths
29.2 Croatia_Roman
8.1 ALB_Mdv_900_AD
1.4 SRB_Naissus

Is this some Italian regional district? Or an actual sample from Roman Croatia?

 

[torzio]

Albanian mythology has a lot of Ancient Greek influence, there also seems to be a cultural influence. So clearly there was a contact with Ancient Greeks despite Albanian has more Latin than Greek influence. It just isn't enough of an arguement.

Albanians and Albanian clearly originated in the Western Balkans and not Eastern. Its only Greek and Serb nationalists that propose the Eastern theory.

Romanian speakers most likely came from South of the Balkans, this guy proposed Dardania as the origin.

Dardanians were at constant war with thr Ancient Greeks. Although he misses some point. There was clearly Dalmatian latin influence in Albanian.


Noel Malcolm proposed something similar, Northern Albania, Kosovo / Macedonia ... its also possible other neighboring areas.

Atleast Northern Albania, Kosovo and Macedonia is where proto Albanain was spoken. Other areas could be included like Dalmatia, Hercegovina and possibly even Southern Albania (Albanians are mentioned there way before migrations of the North). But these are from a linguist point of view and not genetics.


It's very possible most of the Western Balkans spoke some proto Albanian language prior to Roman occupation and Latinization. Or ''Ilyrian'' would be a better term since proto Albanian emerged post Roman era. The Vlachs being Latinized people. If not for Latinization, their language would possibly be similar to Albanian. Both would of possibly spoken the same language if not for Latin.

Dacia was never latinized afaik , the Romans never ruled it for that long and a Thracian origin is unlikely if you take into consideration the Messapian connection. Also Thracians were quite Hellenized.


These topics are always driven by nationalism is the problem and ''we wuz there before you ''


If I recall correctly , ancient Greek historians mentioned Epirotes and Macedonians as non Greek but that is another topic .. but maybe it could also explain Albanian. (Such non Greek people would of been the neighbors of the Albanians)


If we also go by genetics, anthropology and toponomies there is also the possibility of a more Northern Ilyrian origin for the proto Albanians.

Carleton Coon who studied Albanians for 10 years put it with Ilyrian , the Ghegs he put as Ilyrians, the Tosks as Epirotes.

https://archive.org/details/TheMountainsOfGiants

what page in the "the mountains of Giants" does it mention Illyrians ??

 

[torzio]

Is this some Italian regional district? Or an actual sample from Roman Croatia?

a friend whose family ( ie his father ) fled the old "liburnian islands" in 1949 ( as they did not want to convert to slavic yugoslavia as per Tito instructions ) .......moved to Asiago in Veneto ( as they only spoke venetian ie colonial venetian )......before father migrated to Australia in 1951 ..............my friend is his son ( whose mother was also from one of those islands )

He has zero slav mixture ( like me )

came from Cres island

ancestor ..Bartolomeo Hero born 24 August 1898

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Liburnian sample results

Target: LiburniaG25
Distance: 0.0069% / 0.00687278
31.5 SRB_Roman
29.8 POL_Weklice_Early_Goths
29.2 Croatia_Roman
8.1 ALB_Mdv_900_AD
1.4 SRB_Naissus

His profile might be similar to this guy:
SRB_Svilos_Krusevlje:R6693___AD_284,0.119514,0.149283,0.011314,-0.015827,0.022158,-0.002789,-0.00047,0.013384,0.011658,0.027518,-0.003735,0.016036,-0.019177,0.008257,-0.008415,-0.01127,-0.002086,0.001267,0.011061,-0.004502,-0.003369,-0.002473,-0.002342,0.005061,-0.005628

 

[torzio]

His profile might be similar to this guy:
SRB_Svilos_Krusevlje:R6693___AD_284,0.119514,0.149283,0.011314,-0.015827,0.022158,-0.002789,-0.00047,0.013384,0.011658,0.027518,-0.003735,0.016036,-0.019177,0.008257,-0.008415,-0.01127,-0.002086,0.001267,0.011061,-0.004502,-0.003369,-0.002473,-0.002342,0.005061,-0.005628

his ydna is I1 ( not sure on his snp )...his mtdna is T ( again do not know much more )

Claudio and Aristeo , Caterina and Beatrice are his common christian names used by family

 

[torzio]

his ydna is I1 ( not sure on his snp )...his mtdna is T ( again do not know much more )
Claudio and Aristeo , Caterina and Beatrice are his common christian names used by family

his relatives came from Veglia island...now called Krk

 

[PaleoRevenge]

On Anthro I came across Michalis post about the Thracians, since G25 is new to me, I had missed out on the Avar and Mayagar Mdv Thracian like profiles. They are very interesting, some are similar to Alb I13839, some have a northern Gheg like profile, and they completely lack Slavic mixture. They also turn out to be quite good at modeling Albanians.

I grouped these people into two clusters: I16750 and SZK102 as one, since they match the northern Gheg profile.

Serbia_Sirmium:R6730, SRB_Viminacium:R6756, SZOD376_(Commoner), Avar I18185, and Alb mdv I13839 as another cluster.

Hungary_Medieval_Avar_Period_Early:I16750_&_SZK103:Avg,0.1161,0.157915,0.002451,-0.04845,0.023235,-0.020498,-0.0010575,-0.000231,0.006647,0.038452,-0.0009745,0.0076435,-0.015312,0.002202,-0.0205615,0.005701,0.030249,0.003674,0.0069135,-0.005065,-0.009421,0.0026585,0.0009245,0.0028315,-0.0084425
Hungary_I18185_&_Hungary_SZOD376_&_ALB_Mdv_13840_&_SRB_Roman_R6730_R6756:Avg,0.121563,0.16086,0.0076178,-0.0430236,0.0302208,-0.0174028,0.001927,-0.0003692,0.0069538,0.0351716,0.0033128,0.0060246,-0.0148956,0.0011284,-0.0217424,-0.0093342,0.005059,0.0032432,0.0084972,-0.0096048,-0.0092334,0.0063558,-9.85999999999999E-05,0.0020004,0.0005508
Croatia_Roman:Average,0.115198416666667,0.149113541666667,0.008328125,-0.0264321666666667,0.0232092916666667,-0.009982,0.000460208333333333,-0.000423041666666667,0.00443125,0.0210558333333333,0.0003045,0.00575129166666667,-0.0109946666666667,-0.00130733333333333,-0.00747591666666667,-0.00349691666666667,0.00145054166666667,-0.000432833333333334,0.002493125,-0.00410083333333333,-0.00466358333333333,0.00152504166666667,-0.000457083333333333,0.000612541666666667,0.00108766666666667
SRB_Roman:Average,0.122929,0.1543604,0.0173476,-0.0280364,0.0316364,-0.009817,0.002068,0.0034616,0.0059722,0.0306156,0.0044168,0.004736,-0.009425,-0.0017068,-0.0164766,-0.0095728,-0.0008866,-0.0017484,0.005405,-0.0089544,-0.0107062,0.0031902,-0.0007888,0.0040486,0.0002636
POL_Weklice_Early_Goths:Average,0.133660714285714,0.129552571428571,0.0762861428571429,0.065892,0.043085,0.0241838571428571,0.00553942857142857,0.0118347142857143,0.00745042857142857,-0.007758,-0.00675071428571429,0.00389657142857143,-0.00736928571428571,-0.00650742857142857,0.0185354285714286,0.0119141428571429,0.00378085714285714,0.000688,0.00183171428571429,0.00644957142857143,0.007986,0.00245528571428571,-0.00151428571428571,0.011912,-0.00145414285714286
Slav_MA,0.1292408,0.1278645,0.0744299,0.0667435,0.0442321,0.0231226,0.0087166,0.012545,-0.0003718,-0.0232598,-0.00248,-0.0092645,0.0149742,0.0188792,-0.0083037,0.0013741,0.0066141,-0.0015894,0.0034395,0.003297,-0.0047075,-0.0031365,0.0046274,-0.0053785,0.0002395
Sargat_IA:Average,0.093477,-0.068548125,0.0658075,0.0608855,-0.049201625,-6.98750000000006E-05,0.003055125,0.004442,-0.01516025,-0.02890725,0.014899125,-0.00252875,0.008566625,-0.033236,0.002680375,0.001027625,-0.009664875,0.00121925,-0.001853875,-0.003329625,-0.009343,0.006244375,0.001802375,0.003057625,0.001167625
MNG_Early_Xiongnu:Average,0.0668927692307692,-0.207246076923077,0.0557848461538462,0.0257157692307692,-0.0602005384615385,-0.009375,0.00723107692307692,0.00658553846153846,-0.0122085384615385,-0.0164993846153846,-0.0166386153846154,-0.00288215384615385,-0.000903461538461539,-0.0122060769230769,0.0140104615384615,0.000917846153846154,-0.00948784615384615,0.00161784615384615,0.00147938461538462,0.00503115384615384,-0.0186401538461538,-0.00195938461538462,-0.00628553846153846,0.00203923076923077,0.00205415384615385
Serbia_&_Croatia:MENA,0.0994053333333333,0.144543333333333,-0.035324,-0.0582476666666667,-0.00913,-0.0209166666666667,-0.000391666666666667,-0.00684566666666667,-0.00763566666666667,0.012635,0.000649333333333333,0.00259766666666667,0.00619433333333333,0.00233966666666667,-0.00936433333333333,-0.00715966666666667,-0.000695333333333333,0.00114033333333333,0.00884066666666667,-0.003293,-0.00528233333333333,0.00259666666666667,-0.00271133333333333,-0.00156666666666667,-0.000239333333333333
GRC_Marathon_Rom:I7833,0.104717,0.146236,-0.02753,-0.065569,-0.000308,-0.023985,0.00188,-0.004846,-0.003068,0.005467,0.014615,0.001349,0.001338,0.001514,-0.009772,0.012066,0.024773,-0.008235,0.008296,-0.001751,-0.002745,-0.003462,0.003328,0.000361,-0.003473

 

[mount123]

I find the Albanian averages to be very flawed much like the G25 model to be honest. I know from conversations I had with self proclaimed "pure Gheg" people that they like to lie and blend out certain types of other known ancestry of their family's auDNA. This clearly falsifies averages for "Gheg" groups from Kosovo and beyond. Those "Gheg samples" from some areas, Kosovo included, are on the verge of being inter slavic lol

I'm from East Central Kosovo and my nearest match is that North West Albanian sample from Shkodra.

Is there generally any other known academic samples available on modern Albanians that perhaps have also other regions in it and not just the ones I have seen thus far? I specifically refer to academic samples not faked coordinates of "projects from internet enthusiasts" (Anthrogenica's Bruzmi etc.) in order to make them look like they kind of came straight out of the Bronze/Iron Age