I was in Turin and Milan just a couple of weeks ago and have not seen one person that could be mistaken for an Iranian. Granted, people in the Italian north tend to look more central European than their southern compatriots but even in the south, where people tend to look darker, nobody looks Iranian or Middle Eastern. I'm trying to convey my observations as objective as I can because I have a very soft spot for Italy.
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Iosif Lazaridis: Proto-Indo-Europeans had dark hair, brown eyes, and an intermediate skin tone
- Thread starter Moja
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Eye-color diversity in and near Europe: https://www.researchgate.net/figure...ls-Hoijer-1965-p-213-Reprinted_fig2_228627175
Blue and green eyes percentage: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Blue_and_green_eyes_percentage_ru.svg
Blue and green eyes percentage: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Blue_and_green_eyes_percentage_ru.svg
HereToLearn
Regular Member
Sure, central and southern Italy have less blue and green eyes than the Lebanese and the Moroccans (who in turn are in the same ballpark as the Northern Italians my god)... 
Anyone who's been anywhere in Italy can see those percentages are rubbish. In Italy no one considers light eyes as something unusual let alone extraordinary... Not even in the south.
Besides I've seen a ton of those maps and rarely they are in agreement. Congrats for picking the most ridiculous of them all though. Here's another one which is a synthesis of a bunch of studies possibly carried out with different methods anyway. For Italy around 30% as national average sounds spot on.
Anyone who's been anywhere in Italy can see those percentages are rubbish. In Italy no one considers light eyes as something unusual let alone extraordinary... Not even in the south.
Besides I've seen a ton of those maps and rarely they are in agreement. Congrats for picking the most ridiculous of them all though. Here's another one which is a synthesis of a bunch of studies possibly carried out with different methods anyway. For Italy around 30% as national average sounds spot on.
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thejoker
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Moroccans and Lebanese on par with half Britain as well if you notice, if the similar ratio with North Italy and South France was not already an amusing sight to die of laughters .Sure, central and southern Italy have less blue and green eyes than the Lebanese and the Moroccans (who in turn are in the same ballpark as the Northern Italians my god)...
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real expert
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Some folks are chronically online and need to go touch grass and get real. SMH.
Vitruvius
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The fixation is due to the fact that Italy is the father of western civilization from the influence of the Roman Empire, and since then has still yet maintained a large population and large influence on scientific and technological innovations through the rinascimento and scientific age coupled with the expansion of the culturally influential Catholic church.
Many associate Italian history with high culture and civilizational prowess, so Italy in particular often times becomes a target for individuals of MENA or Nordic extraction to coopt as if the accomplishments of the Italian people are somehow owed to these foreign/exotic population genetics. You see some of this nonsense with Greece as well, but less so with Spain or Portugal.
The reality that aDNA so far presents is that Italy's historic admixture with foreign populations is limited to ancient Greece and Anatolia which is a much different tale than many would like to acknowledge.
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HereToLearn
Regular Member
Besides correct me if I'm wrong but the Anatolian Neolithic Farmers ancestral component is something shared by nearly all of Europe anyway so there's nothing peculiar in that either.
i've been to northern italy many times, mostly the alps, and i don't particularly agree with your observation. but that aside, why would your perception of phenotypes change depending on whether or not you have a soft spot for the country?
HereToLearn
Regular Member
That's where you've seen Iranian-looking Italians, my "Swiss" friend? In the friggin' Alps??
not necessarily iranian but middle eastern. if you think there are literally no italians in the north that could pass as middle eastern, you have either no idea about the wide range of middle eastern phenotypes or the wide range of italian phenotypes in the north. and what is so friggin' about the Alps?That's where you've seen Iranian-looking Italians, my "Swiss" friend? In the friggin' Alps??
and here is an example. a peasant from the italian alps.
HereToLearn
Regular Member
You are an utter clown. The guy could pass in Central Europe, even in Switzerland (you are Swiss so you must know right )? Go back to the Apricity and take the Iranian fool with you, fake European.
)? Go back to the Apricity and take the Iranian fool with you, fake European.HereToLearn
Regular Member
In fact this guy might very well be a Swiss since it's in the cover of a book from Swiss authorsYou are an utter clown. The guy could pass in Central Europe, even in Switzerland (you are Swiss so you must know right
Now go hide again New World clown.
sure he could pass in switzerland. this guy lives almost right next to the swiss border. never said otherwise. but this was a counterexample against norberts comment. perhaps he never saw people like him or perhaps he closed his eyes because he has a soft spot for italyYou are an utter clown. The guy could pass in Central Europe, even in Switzerland (you are Swiss so you must know right
"fake european".... what is a "true european"?
it's a book from swiss authors about food/agriculture/peasants in the alps, including but not only, the italian alps. clown. his name is Ruben Lazzoni and he is from Saint Marcel as you would have found yourself if you actually tried.In fact this guy might very well be a Swiss since it's in the cover of a book from Swiss authors
View attachment 18019
Now go hide again New World clown.
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HereToLearn
Regular Member
Yes, and he comes from Val d'Aosta. Genetically very close to many Swiss and French. And also he could easily pass in Central Europe and doesn't pass in the Middle East like you claim.
HereToLearn
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Someone whose activity on the forum doesn't look so much like a notorious American anti-Italian orientalist troll.
An Indo-European nation who don't like to be compared to the original Indo-Europeans with an intermediate skin tone, a civilized nation who don't like to be related to the cradle of civilization!
Vallicanus
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As you read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesopotamia "Mesopotamia also includes parts of present-day Iran", anyway it is too far from Italy as the father of western civilization! Of course by ignoring the bias, a region from Italy to Greece, Anatolia, Iran and India can be considered as an Indo-European civilization.