Iosif Lazaridis: Proto-Indo-Europeans had dark hair, brown eyes, and an intermed‌iate skin tone

[BayLeQue]

Not all Iranians have the AASI component. In western and northern Iranians it is missing. The southerners/Bandaris and easterners have it, in single digits though.

Many who do not have it have SSA. That actually, despite my having been illuded, seems to be the case with the western Iranian soccer player who was pictured. Interesting how evolutionary climate-continuity retains the seemingly most climate-irrelevant phenotypic features despite genetic distance.

 

[Vitruvius]

What mostly darkens Iranian skin (at least the pictured’s) is the phenotypically-obvious Ancient South Indian component, which no Norwegian has, and no Yamnaya had.

A good bit of it is likely natural selection as well. Recall how globular amphora populations had become nearly totally blonde haired, blue eyed and very fair skinned despite having an entirely EEF/Sardinian like genetic structure. The same process likely occurred in reverse for Iranian Neolithic and bronze aged populations which stayed in Iran.

 

[MOESAN]

I agree with b

Not all Iranians have the AASI component. In western and northern Iranians it is missing. The southerners/Bandaris and easterners have it, in single digits though.

I agree with both and I think, without clues, that differences exist in average skin pigmentation between regions of Iran, linked to this AASI influence; influence which can be seen in other physical traits at the individual level among Iranians.

 

[MOESAN]

I agree with b

Not all Iranians have the AASI component. In western and northern Iranians it is missing. The southerners/Bandaris and easterners have it, in single digits though.

I agree with both and I think, without clues, that differences exist in average skin pigmentation between regions of Iran, linked to this AASI influence; influence which can be seen in other physical traits at the individual level among Iranians.

 

[MOESAN]

That said, the footballer (?) pictured in a precedent post has nothing which evoques the AASI influence at the bones and flesh level on his head. And we cannot take a picture as relevant for hereditary skin colour , pics are not reliable enough for that.

 

[Anfänger]

Many who do not have it have SSA. That actually, despite my having been illuded, seems to be the case with the western Iranian soccer player who was pictured. Interesting how evolutionary climate-continuity retains the seemingly most climate-irrelevant phenotypic features despite genetic distance.

There are two football players in this thread one is from the Lak tribe from Lorestan and the other one is a southerner/Bandari from Bushehr. I doubt that Beiranvand is atypical for a Lak autosomal wise.

I have to disagree with your notion on the SSA component. It is only present in Bandaris (~2%) and heavier in the Zanji people, who are descendants of SSA slaves brought mostly by the Portuguese that mixed with the surrounding population of Iranian descent. But their numbers are very low compared to the general population.

That said, the footballer (?) pictured in a precedent post has nothing which evoques the AASI influence at the bones and flesh level on his head. And we cannot take a picture as relevant for hereditary skin colour , pics are not reliable enough for that.

A good bit of it is likely natural selection as well. Recall how globular amphora populations had become nearly totally blonde haired, blue eyed and very fair skinned despite having an entirely EEF/Sardinian like genetic structure. The same process likely occurred in reverse for Iranian Neolithic and bronze aged populations which stayed in Iran.

I agree with both of you. Exactly my thoughts on phenotype. Couldn’t have written it better.

 

[norbert]

People always ignore factors like genetic divergence and adaptation to the environment. Phenotypes are not the sole result of admixtures. They mostly have nothing to do with admixtures. Are we going to argue that the Andamanese got their phenotype from admixture with SSA? No, they are entirely East Eurasian and their phenotype is the result of convergent evolution.

The AASI component among Iranians is negligible but they must have a significant "southern" component in their DNA that may have been represented by ancient carriers of haplogroup L and perhaps even T. Those are not South Asian haplogroups.

 

[MOESAN]

People always ignore factors like genetic divergence and adaptation to the environment. Phenotypes are not the sole result of admixtures. They mostly have nothing to do with admixtures. Are we going to argue that the Andamanese got their phenotype from admixture with SSA? No, they are entirely East Eurasian and their phenotype is the result of convergent evolution.

The AASI component among Iranians is negligible but they must have a significant "southern" component in their DNA that may have been represented by ancient carriers of haplogroup L and perhaps even T. Those are not South Asian haplogroups.

I don't agree completely here. If adaptation was the only factor at work we would have far less individual divergences among a same "homogenous" population. If pigmentation seems one of the most evident trait submitted to adaptation/selection, it doesn't erases other individual differences among which someones owe to admixture(s) even if some of the differences may be the result of independant more or less recent mutations. Just my opinion.

 

[norbert]

I don't agree completely here. If adaptation was the only factor at work we would have far less individual divergences among a same "homogenous" population. If pigmentation seems one of the most evident trait submitted to adaptation/selection, it doesn't erases other individual differences among which someones owe to admixture(s) even if some of the differences may be the result of independant more or less recent mutations. Just my opinion.

I'm not reducing everything to adaptation. I'm criticizing the approach that tries to explain phenotypes exclusively through admixtures, when there's always multiple factors at play.

 

[MOESAN]

I'm not reducing everything to adaptation. I'm criticizing the approach that tries to explain phenotypes exclusively through admixtures, when there's always multiple factors at play.

OK

 

[Vitruvius]

I don't agree completely here. If adaptation was the only factor at work we would have far less individual divergences among a same "homogenous" population. If pigmentation seems one of the most evident trait submitted to adaptation/selection, it doesn't erases other individual differences among which someones owe to admixture(s) even if some of the differences may be the result of independant more or less recent mutations. Just my opinion.

It will be relative to when said admixture took place and how much time under selective pressure, along with the degree or quantity of said selective pressure has been had. A more recent admixture will not have had time to go through many adaptation processes.

 

[MOESAN]

I'm not reducing everything to adaptation. I'm criticizing the approach that tries to explain phenotypes exclusively through admixtures, when there's always multiple factors at play.

OK

It will be relative to when said admixture took place and how much time under selective pressure, along with the degree or quantity of said selective pressure has been had. A more recent admixture will not have had time to go through many adaptation processes.

It will be relative to when said admixture took place and how much time under selective pressure, along with the degree or quantity of said selective pressure has been had. A more recent admixture will not have had time to go through many adaptation processes.

I agree here again. It's evident. In Europe, the differences in phoenotypical distributions (even if relative) cannot be explained only by geographical distances or environmental factors, but also by historical pop's moves and the variations in admixtureS they caused.