Genetic study South Albania Tumulus DNA samples

[PaleoRevenge]

You cannot have a cluster with three individuals in very different centuries. You can try to justify that, but it does not have any sense. As simple as that.
A cluster is a similar group in a certain territory at a certain period of time. You miss the territory, you miss the period of time.
But you don't miss just one thing. Your agenda!

I broke a rule you made up?

A cluster is a similar group in a certain territory at a certain period of time.

Light bulb head, we are missing lots of data from the core regions, BUT we will be getting data, lots of data in the coming months and year. I'll be around, feel free to point fingers. Until then don't lose any more hair over it.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Being part of a project doesn't equal being a member of its adminstration, I'm confused as to what you're asking me.

I think Rrenjet does a great job. They seem to be busy these days as I've noticed two additional interviews from the last one. People are getting interested in uniparental DNA testing and that's a development that I applaud. Simas meje, është vetëm për të miren tonë. A e perdorin fjalen Ilirë si sinonim, në nifar lloj menyre, për popujt paleo-ballkanikë a jo nuk më pengon personalisht.

I don't care how rrenjet choses advertise the results, they can do what they want, their site, their money. If one of their spokesman wants to peddle the E-V13 Illyrians in my thread, go ahead and give it a try.

In the latest interview Alban Lauka would only say paleo-Balkan, he droped the usage of gjergj's illyrian crussade, so the unpublished data must not be adding up as was hoped for, including samples outside of Albania,..... but who could have foreseen? Apparently not the alleged A team with their endless access to unpublished papers. A bunch of failures snd copers.

In the Germanic paper, the Croatian E-V13 is in the Balkan Celt cluster and it's place within this cluster, was closer to Bassarabi than to Illyrians. Amazing how things are developing. In the southern Arc paper, this E-V13 individual from IA Croatia had Thracian burial style(as was noted by Hawk). Amazing coincidence. To rrenjet this must mean Daco-Thracians IBD cluster's does not exists.

 

[Archetype0ne]

That data shows nothing, mostly segments from Yamnaya, the paper was still in preprint, their analysis are probably not final, hopefully they do more runs including of samples they omitted. For example, in the Germanic study MJ-12 or the alleged mdv Alb from Korca were added to this analysis.

You can speculate that the German paper made those groupings for no reason whatsoever(Slavic, Germanic, Illyrian). In the paper you referenced, Hun La Tene I18832(E-V13), shares IBD fragments with two south Thracians, in the German paper it got it's own cluster, only two clusters away from southern Thracian. It is also very closely grouped with MJ-12. I don't know what to tell you, you either clueless or you are sticking your head in the sand.
Also this I18832 E-V13 fella can model Kukes post-mdv samples real good in qpdam. Amazing how all data is making a full circle to my earlier "speculations".

Why don't you try some speculation with your favorite tool(maybe no longer is). Here is one of mine:

Moldova Scythians are modeled as mostly MJ-12 with some real Scythian/Sarmatian. What does MJ-12 represent? Illyrians? LOL

You are all over the place mate.

IBD is one thing, qpADM is another thing. You guys were making baseless claims about IBD clusters by coloring excel sheets and misconstruing paper quotes. I just posted the raw results with 0 commentary. Not my fault the data speaks for itself. But yeah keep jumping from argument to argument when unable to defend basic facts.

Why don't you try some speculation with your favorite tool(maybe no longer is). Here is one of mine:

First off, not sure where you got the part about my favorite tool. But if qpADM is yours, listen to constructive advice and get better at it. You keep fumbling on basics I tried to help you with months ago. Single population qpADM runs? Read a paper, will you?

Now about speculations and why I don't get involved in them, its because I get the feeling that is your favorite sport... I would be competing with Messi and Maradona between you and that poor excuse of a man, Johane.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

You are all over the place mate.

IBD is one thing, qpADM is another thing. You guys were making baseless claims about IBD clusters by coloring excel sheets and misconstruing paper quotes. I just posted the raw results with 0 commentary. Not my fault the data speaks for itself. But yeah keep jumping from argument to argument when unable to defend basic facts.

No , look at the clusters in their entirety. All Germanics are placed next to each other, all Slavic, all steppe nomads, all Illyrians. It is not a random assortment, if that's the way you need to cope about go ahead. Eventually more samples validate my awesome assessment. I want to see how weaklings will mishandle another big L.

First off, not sure where you got the part about my favorite tool. But if qpADM is yours, listen to constructive advice and get better at it. You keep fumbling on basics I tried to help you with months ago. Single population qpADM runs? Read a paper, will you?


Now about speculations and why I don't get involved in them, its because I get the feeling that is your favorite sport... I would be competing with Messi and Maradona between you and that poor excuse of a man, Johane.

Cope harder. Also there are no other samples that I am omitting and refusing to use. That's all there is for northern Thracians/Dacians, IBD matches agree with my qpdam and G25 models.

Johane

 

[Archetype0ne]

No , look at the clusters in their entirety. All Germanics are placed next to each other, all Slavic, all steppe nomads, all Illyrians. It is not a random assortment, if that's the way you need to cope about go ahead. Eventually more samples validate my awesome assessment. I want to see how weaklings will mishandle another big L.



Cope harder. Also there are no other samples that I am omitting and refusing to use. That's all there is for northern Thracians/Dacians, IBD matches agree with my qpdam and G25 models.

Which matches? Six queries later and somehow you write anything but show us these matches. Or even a single quote in the paper, or range in the supplements to back up your point. If I didn't know any better about your delusional nature, I would think you are trolling by now.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Which matches? Six queries later and somehow you write anything but show us these matches. Or even a single quote in the paper, or range in the supplements to back up your point. If I didn't know any better about your delusional nature, I would think you are trolling by now.

My delusional nature got those Bassarabi profiles in the same IBD cluster in a random Germanic paper, my delusional nature predicted R-PF7563 in BA Albania. How you taking all this psychologically? Ready for that straight-jacket?

 

[Archetype0ne]

My delusional nature got those Bassarabi profiles in the same IBD cluster in a random Germanic paper, my delusional nature predicted R-PF7563 in BA Albania. How you taking all this psychologically? Ready for that straight-jacket?

Deflecting again?
Put up. Or shut up.

Bring the sources about these "IBD matches", still waiting.
Bring some proof about these "Bassarabi profiles in the same IBD cluster".

 

[Hawk]

I posted over there, how they are blatantly lying and plotting against E-V13 Albanians just like the Serbs used to do against Albanians back in 2000-s in Stormfront.

Notice how they said Albanian-specific yet on twitter they were lying they took E-V13 as a whole. Years ago they were making propaganda every E-V13 Balkanite is an Albanian, E-V13 has nothing to do with any ancient nation and all the horseshit we have been going to. I blame double digit IQ for this.

To obtain insights on the ethnogenesis of modern Albanians, we plot the mean Y-full TMRCAs of Albanian-specific subclades of E-V13, J2b-Z600, R1b-BY611 and other palaeo-Balkan haplogroups (R1b-PF7562, I-M223) (Fig. 10). Remarkably, a majority of these haplogroups (J2b-Z600, R1b-BY611, R1b-PF7562, I-M223) experience a sudden and steep increase in subclade diversity between 500-800 CE (Fig. 10), which coincides with the timing proposed by linguistic and historical hypotheses on the origins of Albanians and their language (33–35, 64, 84), as well as IBD-sharing analyses (72). The low number of diversifying subclades prior to 500 CE is likely caused by missing data, probably due to significant loss of diversity associated with the demographic turmoil of the Migration Period.

Unlike the abovementioned haplogroups, E-V13 exhibits continuous subclade diversification from the Bronze Age to the Roman period (Fig. 10), suggesting that populations with a high frequency of E-V13 may have followed a different demographic trajectory from those with J2b-Z600, R1b-BY611, R1b-PF7562, and I-M223. The rate of E-V13 subclade diversification increased steeply from 500 CE onwards, following the pattern of the other haplogroups found in modern Albanians (Fig. 10). Based on the above, it is possible that currently unsampled populations from the Central-West Balkan interior that were characterised by high frequencies of E-V13 may have entered the region of modern Albania around 500 CE, where they merged and co-expanded with local groups. This may also explain the absence of E-V13 from the aDNA transect of Albania, despite being the commonest haplogroup in the modern Albanian population.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.06.05.543790v1.full

 

[Johane Derite]

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Ps: screw that good for nothing that got three Albanian threads closed in less than two years.

Here you refer to the group colluding to get any evidence not suiting the illyrian hypothesis removed by mass reporting and pestering and annoying mods, right?

What is it that you think will be achieved by such methods other than the mass production of clowns and idiots?

This is the imbecile bunker spirit of self-delusion, but to what end?

Clown show

 

[Archetype0ne]

Mate idk the back story to this BS. But if asking for some sources and proof, 7 times in a row, with only responses being deflections and now highschool twitter drama. Then sure post anything, qpADM about Moldavian samples, stories about twitter, colored supplements, quotes about Scandinavian clusters, black and white images from the 70s. Just God forbid any proof about these "IBD matches", or "the IBD cluster".

ridiculous

Ps: Oh, and make sure to report me, it will make the question go away... then you can pretend nothing is amiss, sooth that delulu.

 

[Hawk]

As for being on topic R-PF7563 and R1b-Z2103 being common in South Albania Tumulus we will see in upcoming results how J2b2-L283 intertwined with these people, likely there was a clear line of separation but also intermixture going on mainly during EIA-MIA, more mature Albanian archaeologists always acknowledged that there were more than 1 material culture present, but couldn't profess themselves clearly.

Dardania is another topic, obviously it was affected by the Gava-Medias/Mediana (whatever nomenclature archaeologists prefere to call it, presumably E-V13 carrying group) group which came during LBA-EIA on top of previous Belotic-Bela Crkva-like and Brnjica people.

 

[Dianatomia]

E-V13 located awfully close to the Aegean and Anatolia during the Iron Age. And in quite high rates.

Albanians seem to have been formed during the late Middle Ages. It explains the lack of native maritime words in their vocabulary.
But similar Balkan migrations which resulted into Albanians may have occurred in Iron Age, Classical and medieval Greece.

 

[Dibran]

E-V13 located awfully close to the Aegean and Anatolia during the Iron Age. And in quite high rates.

Albanians seem to have been formed during the late Middle Ages. It explains the lack of native maritime words in their vocabulary.
But similar Balkan migrations which resulted into Albanians may have occurred in Iron Age, Classical and medieval Greece.

Either you made a typo, or seem to be spreading complete hogwash for facts.

The Late Middle Ages typically refer to the period of European history spanning from the 14th to the early 16th century. It is commonly dated from around 1300 to 1500. To claim Albanians formed this late is either ignorant or malicious. Take your pick.

Albanian ethnogenesis went through stages of development from the late antiquity to early medieval, and completed sometime in the early medieval period. Even the split of Tosk and Gheg is dated by renowned linguists sometime between the 4th-6th centuries.

Long before the "late middle ages".

 

[blevins13]

E-V13 located awfully close to the Aegean and Anatolia during the Iron Age. And in quite high rates.

Albanians seem to have been formed during the late Middle Ages. It explains the lack of native maritime words in their vocabulary.
But similar Balkan migrations which resulted into Albanians may have occurred in Iron Age, Classical and medieval Greece.

Late middle ages, hahahah. Do Vllah have maritime words? When do you believe they came in the Balkans?

 

[TaktikatEMalet]

Here you refer to the group colluding to get any evidence not suiting the illyrian hypothesis removed by mass reporting and pestering and annoying mods, right?

What is it that you think will be achieved by such methods other than the mass production of clowns and idiots?

This is the imbecile bunker spirit of self-delusion, but to what end?

Clown show

In terms of family values and culture maybe it is. The communist era is what made Albania better, not what was there before

 

[Dianatomia]

Either you made a typo, or seem to be spreading complete hogwash for facts.

The Late Middle Ages typically refer to the period of European history spanning from the 14th to the early 16th century. It is commonly dated from around 1300 to 1500. To claim Albanians formed this late is either ignorant or malicious. Take your pick.

Albanian ethnogenesis went through stages of development from the late antiquity to early medieval, and completed sometime in the early medieval period. Even the split of Tosk and Gheg is dated by renowned linguists sometime between the 4th-6th centuries.

Long before the "late middle ages".

Well, I would argue the late Middle Ages to be prior to the Renaissance which starts around the 14th century AD. And I doubt that in the region of modern Albania, the inhabitants were speaking anything close to Albanian during the time of the Slavic migrations. In fact, it was a desolated region during that time. Most were probably speaking a form of Latin.

But don’t think that I argue there is no genetic continuation in Albanians. I wouldn’t care less honestly. But the area was vastly desolated. Some coastal towns had Byzantine settlements. We know that there was no E-V13 in that area. Yet now it is the dominant haplogroup. And there’s always the Slav migrations.

 

[Dianatomia]

Late middle ages, hahahah. Do Vllah have maritime words? When do you believe they came in the Balkans?

It would not be surprising if the Vlach language lacks maritime words. As they are a not a coastal people. Illyrians of course were connected to the sea.

The Vlachs were migrating to the South Balkans after the Slav migrations. Perhaps both Vlachs and Albanian speakers were displaced by Slavs during that time. Assimilate or migrate elsewhere.

 

[blevins13]

It would not be surprising if the Vlach language lacks maritime words. As they are a not a coastal people. Illyrians of course were connected to the sea.

The Vlachs were migrating to the South Balkans after the Slav migrations. Perhaps both Vlachs and Albanian speakers were displaced by Slavs during that time. Assimilate or migrate elsewhere.

Vllah A Latin language that losses maritime words over time.

Don't forget if you don't use it you loose it.

 

[epirus1000]

Kristiansen mentioning probably the Kamenica tumulus as Yamnaya derived: Min 25 and forward

 

[Hawk]

Proto-Usatovo Culture from Ukraine has potential E-V13, J2b2 is not from Usatovo context.