Politics Catalonia may become an independent nation soon...

[Carlos]

Maybe, just maybe, and just for fun, all of Spain should have a Referendum to Expel Catalonia.
mmmh lol

hahaha maybe if the referendum was made or as we say here the butifarréndum (butifarra) in the rest of Spain would take a surprise and kicked them out.

 

[Carlos]

In this aspect as I feel Spanish and I believe in the Spanish nation, I am aware of its history is something particular, but in modern Spain of the autonomies we can all be with our singularities in this country.I am from Murcia and the perspective I see from the south of the south in this aspect is a bit similar to what happens in Italy between the north and the south, although I believe that in Spain the economic differences are more suaviazadas, more developed areas than the peripheries that want independence mainly economically.We to the Catalans we see them as a brotherly people mediterraneo and Iberian do not know if they will see us the same, I understand that in some cases not, also increasingly heard in the rest of Spaniards that if national elections were held would vote yes to the Catalan independence, because we are already very bored of this problem that conditions all the politics of the country, instead of dedicating ourselves to be more competitive, to avoid the corruption, to develop our companies, etc.

Murcia, the bread with tomato is a Murcian invention since the Murcia workers who worked in the metro of Barcelona used to anoint tomato to the bread.


Generally you will find a total disaffection of the Catalans towards the rest of Spaniards of any region, the opposite happens the opposite and the rest of Spaniards will always give the recognition and will give the virtues and benefits of Catalonia and the Catalans. He thinks that if Catalan nationalism is an ideology adopted and implanted artificially from central Europe of the 19th century because it will tend to the supremacy in this case anachronistic and lack of content since everything that has been Catalonia in the last decades or even centuries is due to the privileges granted by the Spanish State added to the enormous amount of workers of the rest of Spain that with their effort and without any help contributed to create Catalonia. At present it is possible to be said that one lives much better in any Spanish region than in Catalonia since the Catalan autonomous government maintains a very high taxes, maintains tolls on the highways, the rent in Catalonia of houses or premises are abusive and base salaries are equal lows in the rest of Spain.

 

[Angela]

In this aspect as I feel Spanish and I believe in the Spanish nation, I am aware of its history is something particular, but in modern Spain of the autonomies we can all be with our singularities in this country.I am from Murcia and the perspective I see from the south of the south in this aspect is a bit similar to what happens in Italy between the north and the south, although I believe that in Spain the economic differences are more suaviazadas, more developed areas than the peripheries that want independence mainly economically.We to the Catalans we see them as a brotherly people mediterraneo and Iberian do not know if they will see us the same, I understand that in some cases not, also increasingly heard in the rest of Spaniards that if national elections were held would vote yes to the Catalan independence, because we are already very bored of this problem that conditions all the politics of the country, instead of dedicating ourselves to be more competitive, to avoid the corruption, to develop our companies, etc.

All I can tell you is that from my personal experience I'm treated better in Catalan areas if I speak Italian than if I speak Castilian Spanish. That was even more true when I spent a summer semester in Barcelona during university than it is today, so this is a long standing issue. From what was said to me it's not just an economic issue or a cultural issue, but also in part a hangover of the Civil War. They have long memories.

 

[Carlos]

In the last years, Spanish has been excluded from public education, since teaching in Spain is the responsibility of autonomous regions. It is also true that in Catalonia autonomous government fines trade labels in Castilian or Spanish.


I do not know if in a university taking advantage of the fact that someone is a foreigner and does not know well the aspects of the country make a bad face if he speaks Spanish, so subtly, I ignore it, but the reality for the natives is not at all, in Catalonia are almost all the publishers, almost all the dubbing to the Spanish of the foreign films, in the tv all American is made in Barcelona. Spanish is the common language of all Spaniards, you do not have the feeling that it is something foreign to the Catalan population is as much yours as of someone from any other region, another thing is the new prefabricated and programmed attitudes, it is possible that they are already leaving generations of young people who do not write well in Spanish and even lack vocabulary when it comes to speaking, but that had never been the case except in rural areas.

Memories of the civil war are in all Spain logically, the only difference is that independence is still used as a victim.

 

[Carlos]

8,000 murders in Companys Republican Catalonia during the Civil War

Luis Companys is one of the parents of Catalan political separatism. His political career is very extensive, during the time of the gunmen in Catalonia, where businessmen had to hire armed gunmen to defend themselves against the attacks of anarchist terrorists exerted as defense lawyer of the members of the anarcosindicalistas CNT who had opted for what which they called "direct action", based on murdering those they considered their enemy. They were the years 1917 to 1923.
We find a Companys with power as of December 31, 1933, when after the death of the president of the newly inaugurated autonomy of Catalonia, Francisco Maciá, was named his successor. One of his first measures was the appointment of José Dencàs as Governor. He commissioned the formation of the escamots. An armed militia, organically linked to the Estat Català formation, with which it tried to impose separatism when they had the slightest chance. An opportunity that they lost with the proclamation of the Catalan State on October 6, 1934, which barely lasted a few hours but cost 110 people in the 10 hours that lasted.

After being pardoned with the arrival to the power of the Popular Front in February of 1936, the Catalan leader had been radicalized still more. After the failure of the experience of the escamots, he copied the model of armed militia, creating, in May of 1936 - months before the outbreak of the Civil War - the Military Revolutionary Committee. It was composed of 8,000 separatist volunteers members of its party, especially of the Youths of Esquerra Republicana-Estat Catalá, to which 20,000 rifles bought with public money. After the outbreak of the War, these militias would be the nucleus of the Committee of Antifascist Militias of Catalonia, founded by a decree of President Companys on July 26, 1936 and that sowed terror in the rear during the war.
During this period, under its mandate and direct responsibility, 8,129 people were killed in Catalonia. No trial or legal guarantees. For the most part they were civilians belonging to right-wing parties, members of the clergy or businessmen. He ordered the creation of concentration camps, such as Omells de Na Gaia and authorized the different formations of the Popular Front to form their own Czechs. He himself would sign death sentences.

The victims of the repression that was the responsibility of Companys were 2,441 religious, 1,199 Carlists, 281 members of the Regionalist League: 281, 213 CEDA, 108 Falangists, 70 members of Spanish Renewal, 117 Citizens Action, 110 Free Trade Union, 117 of Citizen Action, 18 of the Federation of Young Christians and 34 without political identification.
Check here the complete list of those killed.

https://gaceta.es/blogs/crimenes-de...nte-guerra-civil-02112016-2126-20161102-0000/

As you can see they remember what interests them.

 

[Carlos]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=735136873354113

Bravo, bravo, bravo.

 

[Angela]

In the last years, Spanish has been excluded from public education, since teaching in Spain is the responsibility of autonomous regions. It is also true that in Catalonia autonomous government fines trade labels in Castilian or Spanish.


I do not know if in a university taking advantage of the fact that someone is a foreigner and does not know well the aspects of the country make a bad face if he speaks Spanish, so subtly, I ignore it, but the reality for the natives is not at all, in Catalonia are almost all the publishers, almost all the dubbing to the Spanish of the foreign films, in the tv all American is made in Barcelona. Spanish is the common language of all Spaniards, you do not have the feeling that it is something foreign to the Catalan population is as much yours as of someone from any other region, another thing is the new prefabricated and programmed attitudes, it is possible that they are already leaving generations of young people who do not write well in Spanish and even lack vocabulary when it comes to speaking, but that had never been the case except in rural areas.

Memories of the civil war are in all Spain logically, the only difference is that independence is still used as a victim.

It was bizarre actually. With certain people in the countryside it went beyond bad faces; sometimes they wouldn't respond if I used standard Spanish. Not that we couldn't understand one another, more or less: I would speak in Italian and they would speak in Catalan, and somehow we understood one another as long as we kept to basic topics.

I also went to Spain for a long period one other time, with a friend who was a Spanish major. This sort of thing infuriated her, as well as making it very inconvenient, since she didn't speak Italian, so we left quickly and went to other parts of Spain.

Yes, everyone seems to have long memories in Spain.

 

[Carlos]

They with the foreigners abuse a little and the foreigner are made to see and notice strange things with the rest of Spaniards do not dare.


All you could notice was cheap advertising to create an opinion in your mind, they do not like foreigners but they like to deceive them and return to their country with the perception that interests them.


Really in that university they made you feel a series of prefabricated sensations that are not those that are lived in the street, at the moment.

 

[berun]

I suppose that Native Americans were even more evil by the treatment and genocide suffered by your compatriots, uh?

Or as in everywhere all lies and half truths are good to justify your racism?

 

[ROS]

Murcia, the bread with tomato is a Murcian invention since the Murcia workers who worked in the metro of Barcelona used to anoint tomato to the bread.


Generally you will find a total disaffection of the Catalans towards the rest of Spaniards of any region, the opposite happens the opposite and the rest of Spaniards will always give the recognition and will give the virtues and benefits of Catalonia and the Catalans. He thinks that if Catalan nationalism is an ideology adopted and implanted artificially from central Europe of the 19th century because it will tend to the supremacy in this case anachronistic and lack of content since everything that has been Catalonia in the last decades or even centuries is due to the privileges granted by the Spanish State added to the enormous amount of workers of the rest of Spain that with their effort and without any help contributed to create Catalonia. At present it is possible to be said that one lives much better in any Spanish region than in Catalonia since the Catalan autonomous government maintains a very high taxes, maintains tolls on the highways, the rent in Catalonia of houses or premises are abusive and base salaries are equal lows in the rest of Spain.

Of course there are a large number of economic emigrants who went from Murcia and other areas of the south to Catalonia, my grandmother and my aunt lived and died in Catalonia and I still have many familiares in Catalonia, that because the industries and the work are in Catalonia and not in Murcia ?, well perhaps because it is an enterprising people as some say, perhaps to favor from Madrid its implantation there as others say, or maybe a bit of both, now if the Catalans had something similar to Basque quota problem Catalan nationalist would have smoothed or even ended, according to a specialist on the subject on television and I think he was right, that is, the problem is to pay less taxes to the central state and have full autonomy in the fiscal aspect, to the detriment of the rest of less developed Spanish regions resulting in an inter-regional lack of solidarity.


For what I consider the problem is of a fiscal nature and to a lesser extent political, since the current Catalan autonomy allows a high degree of self-government, practically they have everything transferred, only lack of importance Social Security and a Tax Agency that administers all the Catalan tax.

 

[Alan]

I am supporting Iberian federalism

Would be nice if you did the same with Kurds.

Back to topic I gave my support for a Catalan country already in the past. If that isn't possible at least a British Wales-England relationship should be given.

 

[Joey D]

Catalunya is a good yardstick for Sicily. Whatever Catalunya manages to gain for itself in terms of autonomy within the context of modern Spain, Sicily should always look to match it in the context of the modern Italian state. If it currently falls short, it's only because Sicilian politicians have not had the balls to put into effect what already exists within the Statuto della Regione Siciliana.

 

[stryke]

Catalonia striving to become independent is so stupid in my opinion. They host most of emigrants in percentage in whole Spain to grow economically just to rise in power.

 

[Sile]

Catalunya is a good yardstick for Sicily. Whatever Catalunya manages to gain for itself in terms of autonomy within the context of modern Spain, Sicily should always look to match it in the context of the modern Italian state. If it currently falls short, it's only because Sicilian politicians have not had the balls to put into effect what already exists within the Statuto della Regione Siciliana.

Sicily already has special privileges , see Art.116 and Art 117 ( you need to get the rest of art.117 )
What more are you after? ..............IIRC, even the tax they pay is minimal


Art. 116
Friuli-Venezia Giulia, Sardinia, Sicily, Trentino-Alto Adige/Südtirol and Valle
d’Aosta/Vallée d’Aoste have special forms and conditions of autonomy
pursuant to the special statutes adopted by constitutional law.
The Trentino-Alto Adige/Südtirol Region is composed of the autonomous
provinces of Trent and Bolzano.
Additional special forms and conditions of autonomy, related to the areas
specified in art. 117, paragraph three and paragraph two, letter l) - limited to
the organisational requirements of the Justice of the Peace - and letters n) and
s), may be attributed to other Regions by State Law, upon the initiative of the
Region concerned, after consultation with the local authorities, in compliance
with the principles set forth in art. 119. Said Law is approved by both Houses
of Parliament with the absolute majority of their members, on the basis of an
agreement between the State and the Region concerned.
Art. 117
Legislative powers shall be vested in the State and the Regions in compliance
with the Constitution and with the constraints deriving from EU legislation
and international obligations.
The State has exclusive legislative powers in the following matters:
a) foreign policy and international relations of the State; relations between
the State and the European Union; right of asylum and legal status of non-
EU citizens;
b) immigration;
c) relations between the Republic and religious denominations

 

[Salento]

I like Sicilians too. We are all in the same boat. Do Sicilians really want to split from Italy? Sad!

 

[AdeoF]

I can't really think Italy without Sicily and Spain without Catalonia to be honest. I don't know how both of them would be standing if they both break up

 

[Yetos]

hm

the bad thing is that there will be no more 'El Classico'
no match among Barcelona and Real Madrid for championship
one of the top matches decades now every year.

I am neutral to this Castille-Catalania 'race'
but I would like to see again and again 'el Classico'

I just wanted to put a humor mark to this.

 

[berun]

no kidding with this one, if people begins permanent strike cutting highways trains ports and airports to collapse the government economy, even in the case that the Barcelona team wouldn't support the strike by sure it would be difficult to see any "clasico"

 

[Sile]

Makes me laugh that the EU has not called madrid to account as being anti-democratic

EU is weak and has failed under the reign of the germans and french

 

[berun]

EU is not the peoples union but state economies union, no surprise, it's a big dinosaur with cute words in its mouth but no more.
The worst is that the final message given to any national reivindication is that unicaly with war or terrorism could be achieved the objectives, because democracy only is respected (somewhat) in Anglosaxon countries.