Politics Catalonia may become an independent nation soon...

[Carlos]

I can tell you that as a student in Barcelona I had a lot less trouble understanding Catalan than my friend, who was a Spanish major. It was because it was closer to northern Italian dialects. (Gallo-Italic). At that time, most people would not respond to us if we spoke in Spanish. I did better speaking Italian. They understood me more or less, and when they responded in Catalan, I understood more or less. I'm a pretty quick study when it comes to languages, so by the end of my stay I was getting the hang of the Catalan. Great place...wonderful people.

It will refer to university environments with brain eaten by nationalism, but not answer me strange, often answering in Catalan and if it is already in civilian life insurance will answer and language change easily because Catalonia is bilingual. At present due to the politicization of the population some people dare to complain if a waiter does not answer them in Catalan, but it is a residual and induced by political fact, been living life in Catalonia and no one has ever stopped answering if I have spoken to in Spanish or Castilian, ever. Note that the Basque Country and Catalonia have sucked much of the boat Spain, have sucked a lot, I owe everything, many privileges, the Basques are still efficient, but the other very little.

 

[Korbyn]

My favorite place in Spain will always be Galicia. I have heard that it is the most "run-down" place. But, I think that is mainly Spanish left-wingers or young children just knocking on it. Galician is also my favorite Ibero-Romance language. It is the prettiest and most punctual. Portuguese is a downgrade. I think Galician has no hope to survive and will succumb to Spanish though. But Portuguese is just a dialect of Galician, and does not even sound as good!! Galicia and Asturias are the prettiest parts of Spain; and I found the people there to be very warm and welcoming.

I wonder if Spain will ever take Portugal. For this century it seems that their long grudges against each other have died down. And in the Spanish civil war, Portuguese men sided with the nationalists. So that is pretty interesting.

 

[Korbyn]

It will refer to university environments with brain eaten by nationalism, but not answer me strange, often answering in Catalan and if it is already in civilian life insurance will answer and language change easily because Catalonia is bilingual. At present due to the politicization of the population some people dare to complain if a waiter does not answer them in Catalan, but it is a residual and induced by political fact, been living life in Catalonia and no one has ever stopped answering if I have spoken to in Spanish or Castilian, ever. Note that the Basque Country and Catalonia have sucked much of the boat Spain, have sucked a lot, I owe everything, many privileges, the Basques are still efficient, but the other very little.

I know a few Basques that are pretty decent people, from my experience. Very informative and helpful. Unfortunately I disagree with many of their political views, and I found the people there to be sketchy or two-faced. I have noticed that the Basque people can carry a certain rudeness or mannerism seen in French people. One big problem about the Basques is that they are often more quiet, suspicious of you and complicit. Very similar to my experiences with the French. Basques act more like French people than Spaniards or other Iberians.

One problem I have with the French people is that they do not tend to respect privacy, are seemingly cold and arrogant and tend to be clannish and gossipers. (spreading information about you around, even to total strangers. as if in a group) I have noticed a similar behavior in the Basque people. Their disdain for Spain kind of disgusts me. I don't mean to attack the Basques, all of them are different, but I call them hippies. (American term)

 

[Carlos]

My favorite place in Spain will always be Galicia. I have heard that it is the most "run-down" place. But, I think that is mainly Spanish left-wingers or young children just knocking on it. Galician is also my favorite Ibero-Romance language. It is the prettiest and most punctual. Portuguese is a downgrade. I think Galician has no hope to survive and will succumb to Spanish though. But Portuguese is just a dialect of Galician, and does not even sound as good!! Galicia and Asturias are the prettiest parts of Spain; and I found the people there to be very warm and welcoming.

I wonder if Spain will ever take Portugal. For this century it seems that their long grudges against each other have died down. And in the Spanish civil war, Portuguese men sided with the nationalists. So that is pretty interesting.

Galicians are primarily rights, do not forget that Franco was Gallego, also Fraga and Rajoy. Currently any Spanish Galician can understand perfectly, rather it is "castrapo" a Galician highly influenced by the Spanish. Ear I hate any Spanish Romance language except Spanish or Castilian. The Galicians are like the rest of Spanish but more reserved and with a background of sadness and pusillanimity

Portugal is not too present in the thinking of the Spaniards, are practically two countries that have turned their backs for many years, yet we know that is Spain, but not interest us too. Spain can not resume Portuga, Spain is a country of law, it belongs to the O.T.A.N. and the U.E. It should be a peaceful union.

 

[Carlos]

Indeed Basque has a very extroverted, arrogant and cocky character. They are very open to both men and women, communicative and social, not at all like the Galicians for example. That misdirected ruggedness has been terrible especially on the issue of terrorism that has committed many murders.

 

[Boreas]

I am supporting Iberian federalism

 

[Minty]

Absolutely not. They are even inter-dependent for a proper functionning of the EU. I wish this was explained more properly to the European population. There are still too many people who think that the EU will mean less autonomy for their region and the dissolution of their culture into a more and more uniformised nation that will ultimately speak a common language ! This is all what the EU is NOT about.

Since the beginning the EU (or EEC...) has always considered the respect of the diversity of Europe's cultural heritage a top priority. Their is a Committee of the Regions, which aim is to increase the participation of European regions in (European) community life. The EU may strife to harmonise the distribution of wealth around Europe, open borders and speak of one powerful voice to the international community... but there is no better guarantee for the preservation of regional cultures and languages than the European Union.

Here is an example of of it works. Since joining the EU, Belgium has been able to become an extremely decentralised federal country, and it wouldn't even be a problem if they country split in 2, 3 or 4 smaller nation-states, mainly because the EU guarantees that there won't be any borders, there won't be any visa required for people to go to work in Brussels if they live in Flanders or Wallonia, and with the Euro there also won't be a need to change currency all the time. Defence-wise, the EU protects smaller states, so that it is no longer required to have an oversized army for fear of being invaded by the bigger neighbour (like Taiwan and the Koreas now). Politically, there is no need to be a bigger country you get the same number of seats at the EU parliament, and the EU speaks for you in the world.

Thanks to globalisation (which is NOT EU-related), companies merge across borders and become more international anyway. Looking at Belgian banks, in a just over a decade they have all become international holdings (mostly Belgo-Dutch or Belgo-French). ING and Fortis for instance have branches in numerous European countries and even on other continents... This is just to illustrate that splitting countries in smaller entities doesn't change anything for companies, as in today's world comapnies are no longer national.

The same would be true for Catalonia and the Basque Country. Even splitting completely from Spain, it wouldn't change anything in terms or borders, currency, visas, companies... So why do it ? It gives the region more cultural autonomy on such things as education, tourism, social security or taxation, and so it makes people happy. Needless to say that "cultural groups" are directly linked to the language they speak. So why be Spanish when your mother-tongue is Catalan or Basque ?

I don't agree. I think the Brexit will possibly evoke the Split of the UK, and if Catalans get their independence, Bretons would use this opportunity to try for their independence. Nearly one in five residents of Brittany favour independence from France, according to an opinion poll whose results have sparked a censorship row in the Atlantic coastal region.

There might then be a split between the Wallonians and the Flemish, then Europe will disintegrate.

It’s just a matter of time, Britain has set a precedent. Other member states will follow and the whole thing will fall apart. It will happen very soon.

 

[Korbyn]

I don't agree. I think the Brexit will possibly evoke the Split of the UK, and if Catalans get their independence, Bretons would use this opportunity to try for their independence. Nearly one in five residents of Brittany favour independence from France, according to an opinion poll whose results have sparked a censorship row in the Atlantic coastal region.

There might then be a split between the Wallonians and the Flemish, then Europe will disintegrate.

It’s just a matter of time, Britain has set a precedent. Other member states will follow and the whole thing will fall apart. It will happen very soon.

I had no idea that Brittany had a movement of their own. That's interesting - what does this suggest; a resurrection of the Breton language? I know the French government were very harsh on Bretons. Some of my ancestors were Bretons. So I am quite concerned with this movement. At this point I am indifferent, but if France is willing (which I doubt) would they give it up peacefully?

Boy, Brexit was pretty shocking. I wonder if Spain can handle it the best they can. Another mass civil war or Balkanization like Yugoslavia is not what we want to see, though. I would hate for another Spanish civil war to come out of this. It would be quite painful. That is why Brexit (many will disagree) but I think Brexit could have stirred citizens across Europe to get angry and a civil unrest to materialize.

 

[Korbyn]

I don't agree. I think the Brexit will possibly evoke the Split of the UK, and if Catalans get their independence, Bretons would use this opportunity to try for their independence. Nearly one in five residents of Brittany favour independence from France, according to an opinion poll whose results have sparked a censorship row in the Atlantic coastal region.

There might then be a split between the Wallonians and the Flemish, then Europe will disintegrate.

It’s just a matter of time, Britain has set a precedent. Other member states will follow and the whole thing will fall apart. It will happen very soon.

I had an English friend who was pro-Brexit and he loved it. But I am wondering if this is a big mistake. It seems like a blow to EU and the rest of Europe; and tensions can rise more. If the EU were to break up, it could be similar to a civil war, even if it isn't a real nation. It could break-up all other nations in Europe if the EU dissolves. People will be more disgruntled, more successful economies. More people (i.e. Basques) having an explanation to get away from the "evil Spanish" who are "bringing down their economy" apparently. (The Basques really have no understanding of economics whatsoever; and have just gotten lucky because of becoming more municipal, business-oriented and civilized. (Bilbao, after post-WW2 baby boom etc.)

(In my opinion; Basques are fixated on Marxism and Socialism when it is the reality that Madrid has given them the privileges to be economically successful. Imagine the Basque country without a centralizing power, and as small as Slovenia and under a socialist state. And also - unarmed. It won't be like Switzerland at all - these people wouldn't last long. Immigrants would take them over, and people would stop buying from a Basque independent state. Nobody recognizes what Basques are about. Even thinking about it now, Spain might not even need 'em, even if they did go independent. But I think I digress.)

I think Portugal and a Spanish merge would be a good idea though. The Portuguese and Spanish need to reconcile their differences; it would be very beneficial if both nations became one. The Portuguese might get jealous though - because it's like submitting to Spain once and for all. Their biggest rival - this is what they overlook when it comes to their nationalism...)

 

[Korbyn]

Catalans have the chance to get independence - that is clear. I am indifferent mostly to it, but probably they should stay. (at least for now?)

Basques, on the other hand ... I would say they have no chance. A Basque independent state seems too barren and feeble enough to prosper independently.... They would have to get a big nation like USA or Russia to support that. (Americans are not going to waste their taxpayers money on a small, almost insignificant territory of Spain just to get independent...let me tell you that for sure. If Basques think that, and that Americans are their friends; they are dreaming.) Perhaps a non-EU country like Britain itself. But to the contrary, Britain might get into a quarrel with Spain. British aren't going to be dumb enough to start a war in Europe just to take care of a small region that wants to become it's own country, either.

 

[Korbyn]

The same would be true for Catalonia and the Basque Country. Even splitting completely from Spain, it wouldn't change anything in terms or borders, currency, visas, companies... So why do it ? It gives the region more cultural autonomy on such things as education, tourism, social security or taxation, and so it makes people happy. Needless to say that "cultural groups" are directly linked to the language they speak. So why be Spanish when your mother-tongue is Catalan or Basque ?

Old post, but, in my opinion at least; it's not in terms of them and their mother tongue, or distinct ancient cultures. This is more superficial. If Basque or Catalan become extinct it is for the greater good of Spain. Not necessarily a bad thing. If their own culture (Basque/Catalan) is used politically it degrades into selfishness and superficiality; and thus more separatism and hatred. I am sure that some Spanish people are fascinated by both cultures; but it isn't worth the effort in saving them, if it causes more social disorder in Europe. France wouldn't appreciate it, as well.

In order for those two regions (in my opinion) to become free as a necessity; it would be better for Spain to have a healthier form of management and economy.

 

[Carlos]

It can be said that the modern Spanish is also a creation of Basque and Catalan, is not something foreign, is the common language of all Spaniards, who would want to leave one of the most spoken languages ​​in the world when you are lucky enough to talk to The perfection? How far you can get with a super minority language? the problem is that it will pay future generations of these two small regions because economic and cultural relations between Catalonia and the Basque Country are with the rest of Spain, including the transfer of workers from one region to another for the simple reason that This is the same country. From the outside I do not know how they see it, but the noise is simply separatist politicians who invest large sums in marketing separatist, but the reality of everyday life is not what they sell. If existing attempts of discrimination and sporadic attacks by bigots obviously the danger is when playing with feelings like saying the Basque Country takes 7000 years pursuing freedom, that reaches people, but 7000 years ago who fought for freedom and what freedom? the same happens in Catalonia, based on lies and use the feeling of the people for its small land can create violence, hatred and rancor unfounded, since the regionalist nationalism needs an enemy, in this case the enemy is unfounded Spain.

 

[berun]

Dear Carlos, your haplogroup E1b1b1a is African, you can check it in this wonderful map:

so I guess that you are a black (or a café-au-lait colored??); you must recognize that the white race has achieved the highest peaks in culture, art, architecture, science, perfection in race, and bla bla bla. Your black race instead is intellectualy deficient and has not achieved nothing other than beating drums inside pestilent huts made of dung. The options for you and your brutish race are quite clear: nowadays there are a lot of methods to whitish the skin to become a member of the race more evolved and refined of the world, otherwise you must accept the consequences and bla bla bla. Hail Hitler, White Power, and so on. [sorry for other forum members but I was curious how it feels being a racists/fascist].

 

[Carlos]

Oriol Junqueras: "The Catalans have more genetic proximity with the French than with the Spanish"
ERC leader wrote an article in 2008 that showed convinced that the Catalan "race" had more to do with Switzerland than with Spain.
http://www.libertaddigital.com/espa...s-franceses-que-con-los-espanoles-1276553647/

He wrote Pujol in 1976: "The Andalusian man is not a consistent man is an anarchic man is a broken man is usually a little man made, a man who lives in a state of ignorance and cultural, mental misery and... spiritual". It was one of many examples of nationalist ethnicity, in the purest tradition of Valenti Almirall, Pompeius Gener Prat de la Riba and Francesc Pujols, who argued that the Catalans should have it all paid for by the fact be-and many others.


Not to be outdone the historic leader of ERC, Heribert Barrera, which left for posterity phrases like "do not mean that a country has to have a pure breed, but there is a genetic distribution in the Catalan population that is statistically different from the Saharan population, for example "- Oriol Junqueras joined the bandwagon of ethnicity shortly after being elected president of ERC.


The newspaper reminds digital economy in an article by its director, Manel Manchon, Junqueras another article published in 2008 in the newspaper Avui and the Republican leader took advantage of a study of a hospital in Rotterdam to write: "There are three states -¡ only three - where it has been impossible to group the entire population in a single genetic group in Italy! in Germany, following the old linguistic border between maritime German and continental, and in the Spanish State, between Spanish and Catalan. " .


And still so. "Specifically, the Catalans have more genetic proximity with the French than with the Spaniards over the Italians with the Portuguese, and a little with the Swiss While the Spaniards have more proximity with the Portuguese who with Catalan and very little with the French. Curious ... ".

Is it true what this separatist politician?

 

[Carlos]

Dear Carlos, your haplogroup E1b1b1a is African, you can check it in this wonderful map:

so I guess that you are a black (or a café-au-lait colored??); you must recognize that the white race has achieved the highest peaks in culture, art, architecture, science, perfection in race, and bla bla bla. Your black race instead is intellectualy deficient and has not achieved nothing other than beating drums inside pestilent huts made of dung. The options for you and your brutish race are quite clear: nowadays there are a lot of methods to whitish the skin to become a member of the race more evolved and refined of the world, otherwise you must accept the consequences and bla bla bla. Hail Hitler, White Power, and so on. [sorry for other forum members but I was curious how it feels being a racists/fascist].

Do not believe, I have not had much affinity relationships with blacks prefer the Berbers and Arabs, while almost I prefer Arabs are less prejudiced and more direct, they really made me feel like feels a sponge cake filled with cream. Soon get fans skinned fruit.:wary2:

 

[Carlos]

Judgment in the Superior Court of Justice of Catalonia against Artur Mas, Joana Ortega and Irene Rigau for the holding of the referendum of 9 November. The prosecutor requests 10 years of disqualification for the former president of the Generalitat.

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The Supreme Court welcomes the trial of former Catalan presidential adviser Francesc Homs for the crimes of prevarication and disobedience in connection with the independence consultation on November 9, 2014. The prosecution asks him for nine years of special disqualification from holding office Elected for organizing the consultation, suspended by the Constitutional Court (TC).

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9N
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[Carlos]

The Government of Mas awarded works for which Convergence received 3%

The projects carried out by the engineering firm are the unfolding of a highway and the project of the future high-speed train station at the Girona airport. In September 2011, the company had won another of the few tenders that the crisis allowed to convene. The sum of the two projects amounted to 1.31 million euros, so the payment to CDC was 3.8% of both awards. The president of the contracting table was in both cases Josep Antoni Rosell, director of Infraestructures.cat and also detained on Wednesday.

http://ccaa.elpais.com/ccaa/2015/10/23/catalunya/1445623477_502986.html

The Civil Guard found up to 60 tests of 3 percent in the office of Viloca


Civil Guard agents seized a large amount of evidence when they registered the office of Treasurer Andreu Viloca in August 2015. The Convergencia treasurer stored tenders for dozens of copies of tender notices, notes from meetings held with donor entrepreneurs Training, multi-builder business cards and the special power that the former president gave Mas "to lead the business direction of the party."


http://www.vozpopuli.com/actualidad...il-indicios-despacho-Viloca_0_1002800172.html

The reconstruction of the documents of the 3% case reveals the plot investigated between entrepreneurs and the Generalitat

The partial uprising of the secret of the 3% case summary puts the ropes to the party of Artur Mas. The file describes how the mechanics of the illegal financing of Convergència (CDC), today reincarnated in PDECat. The crushed papers, found in the office of the extesorero, Andreu Viloca, have been keys to reconstruct the plot.

Viloca had noted the meetings he had with businessmen interested in winning public works awards in Catalonia and the payments made to the CDC foundation. Amounts that, exactly, amounted to 3% of the total cost of the tenders, as denounced the former president of the Generalitat, Pasqual Maragall, 12 years ago. Today it is known that some would reach 6%.

http://www.economiadigital.es/es/no...s-papeles-del-caso-3-reconstruccion-89218.php

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Registration at CIU Headquarters

 

[Carlos]

Spain, Spain, Spain has said NO.Europe, Europe, Europe has said No.To give a coup d'etat to the Spanish constitution is to give it to Europe.A small group with ideas adopted from other parts of 19th century Europe will never be able to succeed today.To befriend the enemies of Europe is to be an enemy of Europe.Enough

 

[ROS]

In this aspect as I feel Spanish and I believe in the Spanish nation, I am aware of its history is something particular, but in modern Spain of the autonomies we can all be with our singularities in this country.I am from Murcia and the perspective I see from the south of the south in this aspect is a bit similar to what happens in Italy between the north and the south, although I believe that in Spain the economic differences are more suaviazadas, more developed areas than the peripheries that want independence mainly economically.We to the Catalans we see them as a brotherly people mediterraneo and Iberian do not know if they will see us the same, I understand that in some cases not, also increasingly heard in the rest of Spaniards that if national elections were held would vote yes to the Catalan independence, because we are already very bored of this problem that conditions all the politics of the country, instead of dedicating ourselves to be more competitive, to avoid the corruption, to develop our companies, etc.

 

[Salento]

Maybe, just maybe, and just for fun, all of Spain should have a Referendum to Expel Catalonia.
mmmh lol