From what we know so far, Scythians were mainly R1a carriers....
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26058
Sarmatians are, according to sources from ancient Greece, offspring of Scythians and Amazones, which would make them R1a dominant as well.
Herodotus (
Histories 4.21) in the
fifth century BC placed the land of the Sarmatians east of the
Tanais, beginning at the corner of the
Maeotian Lake, stretching northwards for fifteen days' journey, adjacent to the forested land of the
Budinoi. Herodotus describes the Sarmatians' physical appearance as
blond, stout and tanned, in short, pretty much as the
Scythians and
Thracians were seen by the other classical authors.[
who?]
As seen in Roman depictions of Sarmatians they are of caucasian types
[10]
Herodotus (4.110-117) gives a story of the
Sauromatians' origin from an unfortunate marriage of a band of young Scythian men and a group of Amazons. In the story, some
Amazons were captured in battle by Greeks in
Pontus (northern
Turkey) near the river
Thermodon, and the captives were loaded into three boats. They overcame their captors while at sea, but were not able sailors. Their ships were blown north to the
Maeotian Lake (the
Sea of Azov) onto the shore of
Scythia near the cliff region (today's southeastern
Crimea). After encountering the Scythians and learning the Scythian language, they agreed to marry Scythian men, but only on the condition that they move away and not be required to follow the customs of Scythian women. According to Herodotus, the descendants of this band settled toward the northeast beyond the
Tanais (Don) river and became the Sauromatians. Herodotus' account
explains the origins of the Sarmatians' language as an "impure" form of Scythian and credits the unusual freedoms of Sauromatae women, including participation in warfare, as an inheritance from their supposed Amazon ancestors. Later writers[
who?] refer to the "woman-ruled Sarmatae" (γυναικοκρατούμενοι). However, Herodotus' belief that the Sarmatians were descendants of mythological Amazons is very likely a fictional invention designed to explain certain idiosyncrasies of Sarmatian culture.
Hippocrates (
De Aere, etc., 24) explicitly
classes them as Scythian and describes them as
"swarthy, short and fat, of a phlegmatic and relaxed temperament".
Strabo[
citation needed] mentions the Sarmatians in a number of places, never saying very much about them. He uses both Sarmatai and Sauromatai, but never together, and never suggesting that they are different peoples. He
often pairs Sarmatians and Scythians in reference to a series of ethnic names, never stating which is which, as though Sarmatian or Scythian could apply equally to them all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarmatians
Diverse physical description do suggest tribes of different origin. On other hand, main source of Sarmatians seems to be Scythians. So, they probably were doninantly R1a, but among them could have been tribes with other dominant haplogroups. E.g. Alani were likely G dominant haplogroup, as Osetians who are considered to origin from them are G dominant as well, and as there are clues that G in Iberian peninsula might be related to Alans...
Antes on other hand might have been I2a2...Their tribal name seems to be derived from the name of Paplagonia Eneti, same as name of Veneti is derived from Eneti.... Pahplagonia Eneti were pushed out from Asia minor to Europe in times after Troyan wars... it is known that they dwelled in Thracia for a while and than settled in Adriatic...
....at the present time, they say, there are no Eneti to be seen in Paphlagonia, though some say that there is a village12 on the Aegialus13 ten schoeni14 distant from Amastris. But Zenodotus writes "from Enete,"15 and says that Homer clearly indicates the Amisus of today. And others say that a tribe called Eneti, bordering on the Cappadocians, made an expedition with the Cimmerians and then were driven out to the Adriatic Sea.16 But the thing upon which there is general agreement is, that the Eneti, to whom Pylaemenes belonged, were the most notable tribe of the Paphlagonians, and that, furthermore, these made the expedition with him in very great numbers, but, losing their leader, crossed over to Thrace after the capture of Troy, and on their wanderings went to the Enetian country,17 as it is now called. According to some writers, Antenor and his children took part in this expedition and settled at the recess of the Adriatic, as mentioned by me in my account of Italy.18 It is therefore reasonable to suppose that it was on this account that the Eneti disappeared and are not to be seen in Paphlagonia. [9]
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper...98:book=12:chapter=3&highlight=thracian,eneti
(Strabo)
Thus, in east Europe we do have large substratum of R1a due to Scythians and partially also due to Sarmatians.
East Europe is called Sarmatia, but that doesnot mean that all tribes living there are Sarmatian in origin. Same is with north part of west Europe that was called Germania, which doesnot imply that all tribes of Germania were Germanic in origin.
Notable example for this are tribes bearing names derived from Eneti: Vistula Veneti, Antes, and Adriatic Veneti. They live in Germania, on Adriatic coast and north of Caspian sea, which are probably settlements in 3 directions took by Eneti after crossing from Asia minor to Thrace.
Roman historian Pliny the Elder in Natural History (Liber IV: 96-97) mentions a tribe called Sarmatian Venedi (Latin Sarmatae Venedi). Subsequently, Tacitus in Germania (46) mentions Venethi; when comparing these to Germani and Sarmatae, however, Tacitus associates them with the former, stating that their habits are different from those of the Sarmatae.
In 2nd century AD, Ptolemy in his work De Geographia (III 5. 21.) mentions a people called Ouenedai along the southern shores of the Baltic, which he calls the Venedic Bay.
The historical document Tabula Peutingeriana, originating from the 4th century AD, separately mentions the Venedi along the Black Sea and the Venadi Sarmatae north of the Carpathians (see Gołąb 1992: 287-291, 295-296).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vistula_Veneti
in fact, if we look at variance of I2a2, it is not strongest among Serbs and Croats, but in Slovenia (wider area of Adriatic Veneti settlement) and north of Black sea (wider area of Antes settlement)
If we look for locations of I2a* we find only 2 clusters of it:
I2a*-P37.2-Alpine in Veneto matching position of Adriatic Veneti
I2a*-P37.2-France in Brittanny matching position of Celtic Veneti
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/I2aHapGroup/default.aspx?section=ymap
Who are Slavs? From what previous tribe(s) their origin?
in the land of Scythia to the westward dwells, first of all, the race of the Gepidae, surrounded by great and famous rivers. For the Tisia flows through it on the north and northwest, and on the southwest is the great Danube. On the east it is cut by the Flutausis, a swiftly eddying stream that sweeps whirling into the Ister's waters. (34) Within these rivers lies Dacia, encircled by the lofty Alps as by a crown. Near their left ridge, which inclines toward the north, and beginning at the source of the Vistula, the populous race of the Venethi dwell, occupying a great expanse of land. Though their names are now dispersed amid various clans and places, yet they are chiefly called Sclaveni and Antes. (35) The abode of the Sclaveni extends from the city of Noviodunum and the lake called Mursianus to the Danaster, and northward as far as the Vistula. They have swamps and forests for their cities. The Antes, who are the bravest of these peoples dwelling in the curve of the sea of Pontus, spread from the Danaster to the Danaper, rivers that are many days' journey apart. (36) But on the shore of Ocean, where the floods of the river Vistula empty from three mouths, the Vidivarii dwell, a people gathered out of various tribes. Beyond them the Aesti, a subject race, likewise hold the shore of Ocean.
Jordanes- origin and deeds of Goths
http://people.ucalgary.ca/~vandersp/Courses/texts/jordgeti.html
This suggests that early Slavs are of Veneti race, thus I2a2 dominantly. This is populous race, scattered in many tribes but chief are: Sclaveni and Antes.
Antes were living in Sarmatia and were considered Sarmatian. But their origin is same as the one for Adriatic Veneti and Vistula Veneti - they origin from Eneti.
Slavs originally appear in following areas
This, in fact matches pretty good spread of I2a2 with assumption that big part of west most wing of the spread did move to Balkans, which would match historically attested movmements of Serbs and Croats.
R1a on other hand shows no resemblance to shapes of early Slavs state...
Thus, this R1a comes from other peoples (of Scythian and Sarmatian origin) who were culturally assimilated in Slavs....
we can see people who dominantly originate from Veneti in same cluster in this picture:
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2010/11/clustering-of-european-y-strs.html
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/TNLyVNbffHI/AAAAAAAAC0E/vsEQYTTobHQ/s1600/Ystrclusters.png
Veneti living both in Germania and Sarmatia, and Britanny, as well as related I2a1 present in south Europe could indicate that I2 was original carrier of proto-indo-European language...
which would explain weird saying that exists in Serbia "Speak Serbian so that the whole world understands you"
As for Croats, I think proto-Croats were Sarmatians, carriers of R1a with some G...they settled among Veneti in Carpathian mountains, accepted language, and formed big state of white Croatia...On other hand on the route between Adriatic Veneti and Celtic Veneti are Helvetti which could have been proto-Croat related people as well...
proto-Serbs are also still enigma...same as proto-Croats they could origin from Sarmatians who settled among Veneti, or could be Veneti in origin.
In addition they could have also been separrate group of people that Seneca calls Serians...
[369] Though kings should gather themselves together, both they who vex the scattered Scythians and they who dwell upon the Red Sea’s marge, who hold wide sway o’er the blood-red main with its gleaming pearls, they who leave unguarded26 the Caspian heights to the bold Sarmatians; though he strive against him, who dares on foot to tread the Danube’s waves27 and (whersoe’er they dwell,) the Serians28 for fleeces famous – ‘tis the upright mind that holds true sovereignty. He has no need of horses, none of arms and the coward weapons which the Parthian hurls from far when he feigns flight, no need of engines hurling rocks, stationed to batter cities to the ground. A king is he who has no fear; a king is he who shall naught desire. Such kingdom on himself each man bestows.
Seneca - Thyestes
27. i.e. the frozen surface.
28. The poet here conceives of the Serians as near by Scythia.
http://www.theoi.com/Text/SenecaThyestes.html
Engima that perhaps genetics can resolve by looking in deeper subclades is potential relation of Serbs to Serboi from Caspian mountains, and to Pashtun Sarbans... as Sarbans do perfectly match spread of haplogroup I in that area, making big part of the arc of Serians from northwest China (Seres) to India...
Seres (Gr. Σῆρες, Lat. Sērēs) was the ancient Greek and Roman name for the inhabitants of eastern Central Asia, but could also extend to a number of other Asian people in a wide arc from China to India.[1] It meant "of silk," or people of the "land where silk comes from." The country of the Seres was Serica.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seres
Another enigma related to Serbs is that R1a in Serbia is ancient old, but not high in frequency... Compared to surroundings in Serbia is also unexpectedly high I1 component, and unexpectedly low R1b (more would be expected as previous inhabitants were Celtic Scordisci) , also there is some N which seems as displaced compared to suroundings that doesnot have N...
