Who were and are the Albanians and their DNA

[LABERIA]

I think there's no need for an official language based in one of the two dialects. I think both can be official, as long as Albanians understand both

How can be both official?

 

[LABERIA]

I had met some people from Divjake, and I think in their dialect it's 'qien', though not sure.

People of Divjaka are myzeqarë, lalë. Does not exist this qien in their dialect.

 

[Piro Ilir]

Ok, i agree with the material that we have we can't do much, we should have more tested people.
About albanian haplogroups: if you are speaking of current day tests yes it is a lot similar as you said, but listen to this: in the middle ages there were some gegs that crossed the shkumbin river and settled in tosk lands, but when i mean some i mean a good amount of gegs, but still it wasn't common of tosks, look at the big amount of E subclades existing and look at how this subclades are found among albanians, almost only V13 while te other are minoritary, almost non existent, te only explanation to this is that
it rapidly expanded from a small area and a small number of carriers who rapidly grew and became dominant, so E is found at such n extent among albanians because of this effect.
Now, about J2b, J came into balkans and was a completely different population, it settled mostly into southern albania, coming from the steppes of Russia,passing through bosnja, partially settling even there
So what happened is that albanians are the product of Indo european tosks carriers of language, and of haplogroup R1b-L51 probably fron pannonia(hungary)+czech republic, and maybe if we could proove it one or more subclades if I2 and of E-V13 + maybe something else(tests will show) + steppe J2b.
Tosks absorbed J2b and so modern day tosks are R1b, J2b and maybe I2 but E-V13 is a typical characteristic of gegs, the tosks you said that have E-V13 are gegs that crossed the shkumbin river in medieval times.

J2b2 and R1b (probably I1 also) is equal in Tosks and Ghegs. Whilst I2a, Ev13, G2a aren't. Genetists must analise this

 

[Piro Ilir]

As for my region I come from myezqeja, I have tested my self, but i did the cheap one 99$ cause i didn't have that much money to spend, and no i don't have any tosk supremacy bias or what so ever, just saying by logic that if albanians speak an indo-european language and indo-europeans have R1a/b i would tend to say think that R people brought the language instead of J or E.

Basques don't speak an IE language, despite being R1b majority

 

[Piro Ilir]

And no i didn't put a random one it was written R1b-L51, and on the explanation: celts who settled in the balkans during the neolithic age around 1000 B.C.
Autosomaly I saw the thing hlof the 3 coloured lines and the bugger one, around 50% was neolithic,the second bigget one was paleolithic.

Celts passed through the Balkans and settled into Anatolia. The tribes whom stayed here were assimilated into Illyrians (Scordisci).

 

[Fatherland]

J2b2 and R1b (probably I1 also) is equal in Tosks and Ghegs. Whilst I2a, Ev13, G2a aren't. Genetists must analise this

R1b in Ghegs is about 30%, same with J2b2.

Tosks bring down these both values, so you are wrong here.

 

[Milan.M]

it is more,
Brygian also named as Mυγδονες Mygdon, compare thracian muca and Scottish mc

Brixhe work gives more and more,
considering the testified theory of isotones among proto-greek and brygian
the connection is Big,
for example Edessa is clear a brygian word,
and more,

like Brygian turn ro prelabialization (typical as sound in possible thracian sounds)
when same time Greek turn to prepalatalization

or the *g’h which is not a satem characteristic to brygian
etc etc

the word γονος = son gonos
compare Makedonian Antigonos Phrygian Belagonos

I believe that name Mygdonia and Makedonia are connected,being pronounced differently in different dialects maybe.Duridanov or Georgiev give this etymology for Mygdonía (Thuk., Ptol.), Mygdonís (Strab.), Mygdonia (Plin.) - region along the middle and lower course of Ehedoros (Galiko) down to the sea, to the east of Vardar. These low-lands contain a number of swamps, that is why Mygdonia may be interpreted as ‘swampy country’ from the IE *Mko-ghdhōm, the first component being related to the Latv. muka ‘swamp, where one can sink’, mukls ‘swampy’, the Lith. muklìs ‘damp, swampy’, compare with the Lith. river name Mkė, the Zhemait. river name Muka, Mukja, the Latv. place name Mukas, etc.; the second component is related to the Greek chthōn ‘soil, land’, the Old-Ir. du, (Genitive) don ‘place, country’, etc. Compare also the Thracian place name Rumbo-dona.I can add "mukljiv" as related to above IE etymology of Mygdonia.

 

[Piro Ilir]

I said, tosks from epirotes and ghegs from Dardanians
The Dardani (/ˈdɑːrdənaɪ/; Ancient Greek: Δαρδάνιοι, Δάρδανοι; Latin: Dardani), or Dardanians (Δαρδανίωνες) were a tribe which occupied the region that took its name from them of Dardania,[1][2] at the Thraco-Illyrian contact zone; their identification as either an Illyrian or Thracian tribe is uncertain.[3][4] They and their territory were by most writers not considered part of Illyria.[5]
The illyrians first appeared in east austria circa 1600BC and according to the 2017 paper came via the ukrainian steppes. One of their tribes the delmatae reached modern dalmatian circa 600-700BC. they did not reach montenegro and fight the macedonians until 350 to 400BC.
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Dardania in now called kosovo , dardania also had a large piece of Moesia which is now south serbia

According to the Greek/Roman myth legend, Dardanians were Illyrians.

 

[Piro Ilir]

Of course, the fact that the communist elite were mostly Tosk influenced on the final decision. But Vatican, Tito, etc , has nothing to do in this story, the reason were others.

Enver Hoxha, Mehmet Shehu, Beqir Balluku, Kochi Xoxe were all Tosks.

 

[Piro Ilir]

Johane, një nga arsyet përse u vendos që gjuha standarte duhet të bazohesh në Toskërishte ishte pikërisht përkthimi i Shekspirit, ndërmjet kryeveprave të tjera letërsisë botërore, nga Fan Noli. Gegërishtja kishte më shumë traditë në lëvrimin e gjuhës shqipe me priftërinjtë katolikë, por ishte më shumë e prirur drejt poezisë. Ndërsa Toskërishtja vërtet filloi të lëvrohet më vonë, por nxori shumë autorë dhe ç'është më e rëndësishmja nxorri prozatorë, krahas poetëve. Dhe gjuha e përditshme që flasim nuk është poezi por prozë. 60 vjet mbas shpalljes së pavarësisë ishin të mjaftueshëm për të testuar dy dialektet në përballje me sfidat e modernitetit. Patjetër siç e përmenda fakti që një pjesë e rëndësishme e elitës komuniste ishte nga Jugu influencoi në vendim.

Sipas Homerit; Helenet i mbanin fjalimet e tyre ne proze, ndersa Trojanet/Dardanet ne poezi.
Sido besoj se arsyeja ishte kryesisht politike. Do ishte qesharake ne syte e popullit sikur lideri suprem te lexonte fjalimet ne plenjum te parties ne Ghegenisht

 

[Piro Ilir]

What conclusion ..........its fact, tosk is the national language.........get the government to bring it back to pre -communist then........its the people that need to make the changes......just remember that over time the young will only know about tosk.
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imaginary? ..........i work with him, he is albanian -macedonia...does that make him not albanian ........I do not know how your "rules" apply.
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I know you just follow the nonsense of "from illyrian " like most, due to nationalistic propganda, ...........there is no genetic, linguistic or historical proof that will ever be accepted by you..........the ****** are the ones here spinning these fabrications..........it is very clear, if you want to be illyrians, you must claim also to be non balkan people from noricum because that is where history first notes the illyrians, that is where history notes the celtic-illyrian merger to form halstatt culture...........if you want to believe your illyrian , then believe this, if you want to believe that albanians where always in the balkans and you where there in the early iron-age, bronze-age or before, then you cannot be illyrian ..........you cannot have it both ways .
For some history of people starts at different times ............you are one of these

No one is claiming any Neolithic heritage here. Albanian is an IE language, therefore it came from the northern Caspian's steppes

 

[Piro Ilir]

Born Australia

ancient admixture........... 99% european ....1% central asian ( Dahae confederation )......what else you want to know

Ethnically??

 

[LABERIA]

Enver Hoxha, Mehmet Shehu, Beqir Balluku, Kochi Xoxe were all Tosks.

What's your point here?

 

[Sile]

Celts passed through the Balkans and settled into Anatolia. The tribes whom stayed here were assimilated into Illyrians (Scordisci).

The Scordisci were finally pushed back by a force commanded by Quaestor Marcus Annius, (SIG 700 Sherk 1 48 R.K. Sherk Rome and the Greek East to the Death of Agustus (1993); CAH 9’32 = Cambridge Ancient History 2nd Edition 1984 -1989) who also succeeded in repulsing a subsequent attack soon afterwards by the Scordisci, in alliance with the Thracian Maidi tribe.
The participation of the Maidi (the tribe of Spartacus, who would be captured by Rome during a latter phase of this conflict – see below) in the second attack on Macedonia in 119 BC is particularly noteworthy, because it marks the beginning of a new pattern which would continue for the next 100 years of this conflict. While the Thracian Celts continued to be the main element in the resistance to Roman expansion on the Balkans, from this point onwards they are frequently accompanied by other Balkan tribes, notably the Bastarnae, Dardanii, and the Free Thracian tribes (Maidi, Triballi, Denteletes, and Bessi).
The cruelest of all the Thracians were the Scordisci…”.
(Florus, Epitome XXXVIIII (The Thracian War) III. 4)
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another
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III, 4 After the Macedonians (heaven save the mark) the Thracians, former tributaries of the Macedonians, rebelled and, not content with making incursions merely into the neighbouring provinces of Thessaly and Dalmatia, penetrated as far as the Adriatic; checked by the boundary which it formed, since nature apparently stayed their advance, they hurled their weapons against the very waters. 2 Throughout the period of their advance they left no cruelty untried, as they vented their fury on their prisoners; they sacrificed to the gods with human blood; they drank out of human skulls; by every kind of insult inflicted by burning and fumigation9 they made death more foul; they even forced infants from their mothers' wombs by torture. 3 The cruellest of all the Thracians were the Scordisci, and to their strength was added cunning as well; 4 their haunts among the woods and mountains harmonized well with their fierce temper. An army, therefore, was not only routed and put to flight by them, but — what almost seemed like a miracle — entirely cut up under the command of a Cato. 5 Didius, finding them wandering about and dispersed in undisciplined plundering, drove them back into their own land of Thrace. Drusus forced them still further and prevented them from recrossing the Danube. Minucius laid waste all the country along the Hebrus, losing, however, many of his men as they rode across a river covered p179 with treacherous ice. 6 Volso penetrated to Rhodope and the Caucasus.10 Curio reached Dacia, but shrank from its gloomy forests. Appius advanced as far as the Sarmatians, while Lucullus reached the Tanais, the boundary of those tribes, and Lake Maeotis. 7 These savage enemies could only be reduced by the employment of their own methods against them; severe cruelties were inflicted upon the captives by fire and the sword, but nothing was regarded by the barbarians as more horrible than that they should be left with their hands cut off and be forced to survive their punishment.

 

[Fustan]

Dibran is a psy-op agent funded by the CIA to destroy any connexion with Albanians and Illyrians.

 

[blevins13]

Dibran is a psy-op agent funded by the CIA to destroy any connexion with Albanians and Illyrians.

How so?!!!


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[Dibran]

Dibran is a psy-op agent funded by the CIA to destroy any connexion with Albanians and Illyrians.

What in the **** are you smoking Budal? lol Hop off my dick. Idk who you are and I have barely ever conversed with you. Learn how to spell connection.

 

[Dibran]

How so?!!!


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He's on crack. lol

 

[Fustan]

Seems like the R1a turns mad when he is exposed....

 

[Angela]

Clean up the language, gentlemen, please.