Who were and are the Albanians and their DNA

[Piro Ilir]

Aldo your theory by a linguistic point of view could seem very reasonable, it isn't by a logical and historical about albanian habits.

First of all if we albanians were epirotes we would only have R1B+J2B while E wouldn't be so typical.

Then we wouldn't be typically shepherds but would me more farmers and would have our lowland terms instead of importing them, then we would ve coastal people too so why don't we have authoctonous indigenous terms about sea?

Then we albanians as I said by an historical point of view would simply be all latinized + woulde compromized by a strong influence of greek, but in albanian is quazi absent.

Then if we were there before why we don't have typical toponysms or at least we have some really limited in numbers just for rural villages? If we were there how is it possible that slavic tribes nowadays extinguished had their own villages such as poloska, pogradec, zharnec, divjake, voskopoje, vetipoje, korçe, etc. into albanian territory?

In my opinion there are quite a lot of unexplainable things, that could be explained just by an origin far far norther.
You were telling me about labial or laringeal sounds I don't remember well and that how in romanian this occure while in albanian not.

Then the quazi complete lack of albanian typical name, no seriously, except from the stolen illyrian names from the tombs founded during the communist regime we only have religious names or instead latin or greeks, but not albanians, same thing for romanians, we have just ( i come from the south so i am gonna tell you the christian ones i know) Kozma, jorgji, anastas, artur, eduart, petro, nikolla, mateo, dhimitër, kristaiq, kristjan, kosta, aleksander, etc.

Romanians are in a similar situation.

So this is a common feature of both albanians and romanians, at least in archaic times albanians and romanians got deep into christianization at the point that used only religious names and not anymore the original ones.

Still there is a linguologist that aldo is anti-serbian did an article called: slavic language?A baltized albanian.

He showes how we share grammatical features with balts but even more with slavs i will post the article soon.

There to many things unexplainable with albanians being epirotes and to many proofs that push the attention elsewhere, like albanian tombs? Albanian ancient alphabet?
And still if epirotes would survice they would speak a semi or totally hellenized language, they were really filo greeks, they wanted at any cost to become greeks, they had greek habits and uses, they prayed greek gods in greek temples, i wouldn't think after all that of epirric would remain something after hellenization + latinization.

While albania with no greek influence + being quazi totally latinized couldn't develop in nowadays albania.

What about this? What if albanians were sarmatians, Just sugestions, romans got till crimea maybe in the border with dacia there were even some sarmatians reconductible to albanians, i think we should study even them, but one thing is clear, albanian was satem, that's the point in my opinion.

The prefecture of Illyricum during the pick of Illyrian's rule over the Roman empire. (Read about the Illyrian's soldery)

 

[Piro Ilir]

Lithuanus.org

Sorry but from telephone i can't copy paste the link i am gonna do it this evening on pc.

That's not good. Always use the propaganda office

 

[Piro Ilir]

What someone here doesn't understand, referring to dear johane, is that when i speak about haplogroups i start on how they originally they came together, after this I say that because E,J and R people when they met for the first time didn't have the same lifestyle, meaning farmer/hunter-gatherer/nomadic pastor/etc., so i was supposing in relation to what we know about ancient people's habits is that seeing for example the greeks or the thracians or who ever it is, what habits, life style, etc... had, how this people developed by behavior, by traditions, taking all this info about what we know of these people's and what we know about albanians, that's it, if albanians typically were shepherds instead of being farmers, i would search albanian origin among recorded people's who were traditionally shepherds, i would study their language, traditions, culture and probably find a link, and then what did i do to provoke your hate majesty? Did I contested your theories, no wait, your scientific rules?? I am not that much of an expert but with what i know about history i tried to create a logical continuity about the argument.
Did I said "E" is not albanian or european?? no, I said that E people in origin had a differnt life style than Jand even than R peoples.
Said anything provocative, or Hoxhaist? No.
Better then always take the Illyrian theory as a rule or even the epirote one, and I never said they are debunked, I proposed my ogical one, if u get mad at me so fast I don't know what u would do seeing the fairytales written on pan-slavic forums about I2 that came into Balkans 50000 years ago, HAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHAHHAHAAA, LoL.
And still I don't se the provocative part in here, but ok if u are so close minded to always want to here what u like and not stuff wrote by other people it's ok.

For example explain me how is it possible that albanians, supposed that it was born in modern day albania, wasn't latinized complitely, in the balkans one of the first part to be conquered by romans was actually epirus, after illyria, so how did it survive then? Then i would like from u a list of albanian typical toponysms of cities and names of people of albanian origin, the only reason why I supposed that albanians could be dacian was that basing my knowledge of albanian on me being a native speaker and on the studies of Georgiev and Vladimir Orel, i read that albanian in their opinion developed in eastern serbia (Morava valley) and they had and still have pretty damn good arguments to state that, so this could explain geographically and historically why in albania there are settlements of any kind of name, slavic, greek, even roman, etc.
By a linguistic point of view I am not n expert but we can agree that albanian has nothing but little greek influence, if albanian was in modern day epirus, even in Illyria, it would have havier greek influence, but it doesn't, so following logic, just by logic, did I say anything wrong??

Illyrians main occupation was as miners, shepherds, military mercenaries, pirates, pillagers (many times raided Greece pillaging wealthy religious shrines). Indeed they were not agricultural people, the sama as Albanians.
Dacians and Tracians are recorded to have developed some kind of writings in their own language, whilst Illyrians never did even a little attempt to write anything. Albanians started their writing in late middle age.
Illyrians and Barbarians were almost synonyms back in ancient times.

 

[Piro Ilir]

Ok, about this i mean, how is it possible that if we have our own rules of making city names, when this slavs, that i am supposing settled in the lowlands, while we were in te highlands, we didn't change this names reconquering the lands, i mean then there is not a typical rule for albanian place names, slavs have them:grad, gradec, etc. I mean suffixes or typical way of forming city names, while we don't have such, or it is not so strong or widely used.

Illyrians likewise hadn't used suffixes for their city names.

Dacian- Thermi'dava
Tracian- Bessi'para
Illyrian- Skodor/Skodria.

Albans the same as their ancestors don't use suffixes for their cities.

 

[Piro Ilir]

Like, dacians had pulpudeva, sucidava, etc.
Then albanians?

I thought you supported the Dacian Albans continuity!! That's the prove , though one of many, that Alban's language isn't an offspring of Dacian.

 

[Piro Ilir]

Nuk e kam lexuer ne liber, por tani o zoteri, poloska me llogjik bazilare ça esht, mbase shkodra esht ilire, por poloska, voskopoje, zharnec, zagorje qe do te thot mbrapa malit nga sa di.

The whole Balkans was settled mostly by Slavic people, hence you will find plenty of Slavic toponyms all over , including Greece. Morea itself is a Slavic toponym, but this doesn't mean that there were no Greeks in seventh century

 

[Piro Ilir]

I mean the logic is, if we originated in morava valley, when slavs forefathers of serbs were still some small undeveloped politically, first slavs wouldn't be enough strong to push us downwards, so they could just bypass us, but the following ones that started forming in primitive kinds of despotates could be enough strong to push us back, the question now is, wherw did we originated exactly, how could we survive total latinization, how is it possible that we have a big substratum of words with romanians and their forefathers, and one question for you, have u ever seen the studies of a british professor called dr.Basset trumper?what do you think about him?He even cited some common features among albanians and baltics.

Since a long time it was argued that proto Baltic and proto Alban were neighbors. Illyrian language was spoken from Poland to eastern Adriatic. At least according to scholars.

 

[Piro Ilir]

@Gannicus

If you really want to learn about where people came from, forget about linguistic, cultural or ethnographic theories. Start from scratch by looking at the trail of DNA, especially Y-DNA. Check this map: http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/ancient-human-dna_41837#6/45.228/19.270. Then look at what clades people from each ethnic group fall into. That will give you an idea of where most haplogroups could be found at different times. Regarding movements of peoples, which is what you are talking about, culture-centered theories can only serve to hypothesize about what DNA has not discovered yet.

That's not always correct. In the case of the Basques , whose language isn't IE, their Y-dna doesn't provide anything as long as their main male lineage is R1b.

 

[Piro Ilir]

Guys, than explain me this, i saw on the link gently provided by Ownstyler that Y-DNA doesn't concede with mt-DNA can you explain me the basics of these? sorry for boring you i am not an expert, anyways are you all genetists in here?

Y-dna is a very tiny tiny component of human DNA , which passes through the male line. Whilst the mt-dna is the one which passes through the female line.
It's a normal process that Y-dna don't corresponds with mt-dna.

 

[Piro Ilir]

Thanks for this. I underlined the 3 biggest Albanian haplogroups. EV13 and J2b2-m241 are highest
among Albanians. Both these peak in Apulia (with the exception of a high J2b2-m241 in Tortona-Voghera) also.

This is the real argument we should talking about. In Ghegs prevails the E-V13, whilst at the R1b and J2b2 is almost equal in both, Ghegs and Tosks. That's a question of one million dollars. Why this difference?

 

[Piro Ilir]

Generally speaking, Albanians predominately have predominantly Greek DNA in the south (Epirus) and predominantly Balkan (south Slav) in the north.

Actually, the Ghegs have more Greek DNA, considering that E-v13 is a lot more higher in Ghegs rather than in Tosks

 

[Leka]

Jesus bro, you’re going to quote every post in this thread xD

 

[Sile]

Actually, the Ghegs have more Greek DNA, considering that E-v13 is a lot more higher in Ghegs rather than in Tosks

The data on post #810 shows the macedonians have 11% more E-V13 than albanians .......and greek province of macedonia 15% less ................what was the ancient language of the macedonians since it was not Greek ?

some say Phyrgian based on Macedonian calendar at the time

the “undeniable cultural influence” of the Phrygian people in the formation of the Macedonian ethnos. They particularly refer to the months Audnaios, Xandikos, Gorpiaios and Hyperberetaios, which according to them can find no explanation in Greek.

 

[blevins13]

Actually, the Ghegs have more Greek DNA, considering that E-v13 is a lot more higher in Ghegs rather than in Tosks

Wrong....E-V13 is not Greek.


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[Dibran]

The data on post #810 shows the macedonians have 11% more E-V13 than albanians .......and greek province of macedonia 15% less ................what was the ancient language of the macedonians since it was not Greek ?

some say Phyrgian based on Macedonian calendar at the time

the “undeniable cultural influence” of the Phrygian people in the formation of the Macedonian ethnos. They particularly refer to the months Audnaios, Xandikos, Gorpiaios and Hyperberetaios, which according to them can find no explanation in Greek.

Stop constantly spreading your BS. Albanians have more V13 than anyone in Europe. V13/J2b/R1b are chief among Albanians.

 

[blevins13]

The data on post #810 shows the macedonians have 11% more E-V13 than albanians .......and greek province of macedonia 15% less ................what was the ancient language of the macedonians since it was not Greek ?

some say Phyrgian based on Macedonian calendar at the time

the “undeniable cultural influence” of the Phrygian people in the formation of the Macedonian ethnos. They particularly refer to the months Audnaios, Xandikos, Gorpiaios and Hyperberetaios, which according to them can find no explanation in Greek.

You wish so Sile... you wish so.


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[Yetos]

The data on post #810 shows the macedonians have 11% more E-V13 than albanians .......and greek province of macedonia 15% less ................what was the ancient language of the macedonians since it was not Greek ?

some say Phyrgian based on Macedonian calendar at the time

the “undeniable cultural influence” of the Phrygian people in the formation of the Macedonian ethnos. They particularly refer to the months Audnaios, Xandikos, Gorpiaios and Hyperberetaios, which according to them can find no explanation in Greek.

it is more,
Brygian also named as Mυγδονες Mygdon, compare thracian muca and Scottish mc

Brixhe work gives more and more,
considering the testified theory of isotones among proto-greek and brygian
the connection is Big,
for example Edessa is clear a brygian word,
and more,

like Brygian turn ro prelabialization (typical as sound in possible thracian sounds)
when same time Greek turn to prepalatalization

or the *g’h which is not a satem characteristic to brygian
etc etc

the word γονος = son gonos
compare Makedonian Antigonos Phrygian Belagonos

 

[Sile]

Stop constantly spreading your BS. Albanians have more V13 than anyone in Europe. V13/J2b/R1b are chief among Albanians.

so in post #810 the data shows the macedonians have 11% more E-V13 than albanians ..........are these V13 macedonian-albanians original macedonians or are they albanians that migrated......clearly the greek macedonians have less

 

[Sile]

it is more,
Brygian also named as Mυγδονες Mygdon, compare thracian muca and Scottish mc

Brixhe work gives more and more,
considering the testified theory of isotones among proto-greek and brygian
the connection is Big,
for example Edessa is clear a brygian word,
and more,

like Brygian turn ro prelabialization (typical as sound in possible thracian sounds)
when same time Greek turn to prepalatalization

or the *g’h which is not a satem characteristic to brygian
etc etc

the word γονος = son gonos
compare Makedonian Antigonos Phrygian Belagonos

but are phygians from europe that went to middle anatolia or are they anatolians that went to europe

 

[blevins13]

so in post #810 the data shows the macedonians have 11% more E-V13 than albanians ..........are these V13 macedonian-albanians original macedonians or are they albanians that migrated......clearly the greek macedonians have less

It will be known when we get Ancient Macedonian DNA.


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