Vlach haplogroups & deep ancestry?

Some of these Vlachs,like Marco Polo's ancestors became extremely rich, they lived in the Bosnian state and raised stone tombs like stecci,steccak,mentioned in the Venetian records from Dubrovnik, "Vlachi et Bosgnani".



" In the 1376 and 1454 documents by the Dubrovnik Republic about trade with the Bosnian lands are distinguished, Vlachi et Bosgnani."


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlachs_in_the_history_of_Croatia
 
If Marco Polo was a "Croatian" by region, then his ancestry and ethnicity was Romanian-Vlach.
The Croatians claim that he was from Korcula,near Dubrovnik, Neretva,in this places there were lots of Romanian traders in contact with the Venetians.
Vlachs,Morlachs from Dalmatia, Venice,were the most related to the Daco-Romanians, that's what linguistics says,see the generalized n-r rhotacism, lacking in Aromanian.
.
http://www.croatia.org/crown/articl...-solid-research---London-Financial-Times.html
And,the Romanian word for cheese,branza,brandza,in Slavic ,bryndza ,is firstly recorded in Dubrovnik,the shepherds,brought sheep products,wax(we have a very good tradition in bee growing,with lots of words from Latin,albina,stup,ceara,etc) to the city and left with the Dalmatian salt from the Adriatic coast.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryndza
https://adriaticpantry.com/products/salt-with-dalmatian-spices
http://researchomnia.blogspot.com/2016/07/vlachs-in-venetian-dalmatia.html?m=1
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlachs_in_the_history_of_Croatia
Marco Polo real surname is in dispute , some say his surname was Milione, and he used Polo because he lived in the venetian district of San Polo ( saint Paul ).
.
In English his name would be....Mark Paul
 
If Marco Polo was a "Croatian" by region, then his ancestry and ethnicity was Romanian-Vlach.
The Croatians claim that he was from Korcula,near Dubrovnik, Neretva,in this places there were lots of Romanian traders in contact with the Venetians.
Vlachs,Morlachs from Dalmatia, Venice,were the most related to the Daco-Romanians, that's what linguistics says,see the generalized n-r rhotacism, lacking in Aromanian.
.
http://www.croatia.org/crown/articl...-solid-research---London-Financial-Times.html
And,the Romanian word for cheese,branza,brandza,in Slavic ,bryndza ,is firstly recorded in Dubrovnik,the shepherds,brought sheep products,wax(we have a very good tradition in bee growing,with lots of words from Latin,albina,stup,ceara,etc) to the city and left with the Dalmatian salt from the Adriatic coast.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryndza
https://adriaticpantry.com/products/salt-with-dalmatian-spices
http://researchomnia.blogspot.com/2016/07/vlachs-in-venetian-dalmatia.html?m=1
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlachs_in_the_history_of_Croatia


If any person from the Dalmatian coast has read what you stated about Marco Polo’s origin, he is probably already dead of laughter.

In the local culture the word Vlach (or locally: "Vlay") means: a man from the hinterland, more correctly a mountain shepherd.

You see, wherever Marco Polo came from, that place must be near the sea. Korčula is the island of sailors, captains, fishermen and agriculturists. It is believed that Marco Polo family originated there before they moved to Venice. However, nobody can say that for sure.

"Morlacks" was the Venetian catch-all term for people who lived in the Dalmatian hinterland regardless of their ethnic origin and language. People who lived along the coast were called Boduls. These two groups never lived in "harmony".

Both Vlachs and Boduls were speaking Croatian since the medieval times. However, in some coastal enclaves Dalmatian Romance was preserved until 19th century. Dalmatian Romance has nothing to do with Daco-Romanian. It is a separate branch. There is only one small bilingual enclave in Istria mountains (Ćići) who partly speak the Romance language that can be related to Vlachs.

Genetics studies on Croats don't show any significant genetic footprint of indigenous Vlachs in present day Croatian genetics. It is more likely that only some of Croatian “Vlachs” were of “real” Vlach origin. Others were just Slavs who accepted Vlach lifestyle and therefore started to carry Vlach label ever since. Almost no people today call themselves Vlachs nor Morlacks.

The "stećci" tombstones you mentioned have inscriptions (epitaphs). The language of the texts is Slavic. The people who were buried under the stones had Slavic names. It is just a speculation that these people were Vlachs.

Btw, do you know what Vlays use to say about maritime cuisine? “If fish was any good, wolf would be a diver”. :LOL:
 
i will revist my book...Venice and the slavs ...and let you know.
.
in regards to Marco Polo ...........his grandfather was Andrea Polo born in Venice in 1185
his father was Niccolo born in Venice in 1220
Korcula was under Venice from the 10th to the 14th century, just because Marco was born there of Venetian parents does not make him a Croat.
Marco married Donata Badoer ( a venetian noble family )
.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2212682113000140
above might be of interest to you
 
@ Wonomyro


That's a good one,I guess that every people has some very wit and bold jokes,didn't hear these kind for sometime,in my village they were more like a quiz,the elders,grandparents used to ask us.


After that,they calmly smiled and with sort of hidden complicity and confidence,as if they were scholars who knew important things that we didn't.
 
If any person from the Dalmatian coast has read what you stated about Marco Polo’s origin, he is probably already dead of laughter.

In the local culture the word Vlach (or locally: "Vlay") means: a man from the hinterland, more correctly a mountain shepherd.

You see, wherever Marco Polo came from, that place must be near the sea. Korčula is the island of sailors, captains, fishermen and agriculturists. It is believed that Marco Polo family originated there before they moved to Venice. However, nobody can say that for sure.

"Morlacks" was the Venetian catch-all term for people who lived in the Dalmatian hinterland regardless of their ethnic origin and language. People who lived along the coast were called Boduls. These two groups never lived in "harmony".

Both Vlachs and Boduls were speaking Croatian since the medieval times. However, in some coastal enclaves Dalmatian Romance was preserved until 19th century. Dalmatian Romance has nothing to do with Daco-Romanian. It is a separate branch. There is only one small bilingual enclave in Istria mountains (Ćići) who partly speak the Romance language that can be related to Vlachs.

Genetics studies on Croats don't show any significant genetic footprint of indigenous Vlachs in present day Croatian genetics. It is more likely that only some of Croatian “Vlachs” were of “real” Vlach origin. Others were just Slavs who accepted Vlach lifestyle and therefore started to carry Vlach label ever since. Almost no people today call themselves Vlachs nor Morlacks.

The "stećci" tombstones you mentioned have inscriptions (epitaphs). The language of the texts is Slavic. The people who were buried under the stones had Slavic names. It is just a speculation that these people were Vlachs.

Btw, do you know what Vlays use to say about maritime cuisine? “If fish was any good, wolf would be a diver”. :LOL:
I always invite people who are interested in learning history to read this text:
[h=3]1332
Anonymous:
Initiative for Making the Passage
[/h]
People mentioned as Latins in this text are not Vlachs.
 
i will revist my book...Venice and the slavs ...and let you know.
.
in regards to Marco Polo ...........his grandfather was Andrea Polo born in Venice in 1185
his father was Niccolo born in Venice in 1220
Korcula was under Venice from the 10th to the 14th century, just because Marco was born there of Venetian parents does not make him a Croat.
Marco married Donata Badoer ( a venetian noble family )
.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2212682113000140
above might be of interest to you

There is no doubt that Marco Polo was Venetian. However, there are some indices that he was a son of Dalmatian imigrants. There are also indices that the family Polo origin was in the town (and island) of Korčula.

This is what I found after a quick search. There are some arguments in this text that support "Korčula" theory. There was a family called Polo in Korčula.

The island’s leading authority on Marco Polo is Dr Zivan Filippi. I meet him in the old town, outside the cathedral of Sveti Marko [Saint Marco]. He is in his sixties, and he speaks with old-world charm and an easily-shared enthusiasm for his town. Korčula’s claim, he explains, rests mainly on the long-term presence of the Depolo/Polo family. ‘Between the 16th and 20th centuries, records show that there were 712 people named either Depolo or Polo born here.’

Earlier papers, he continues, connect the family – at the time of Marco – with the town’s principal occupation of ship-building. As we walk through the shadowy warren of foot-polished alleys, high-sided and narrow, Zivan ignores the town’s trumpeting of its famous son, all the Marco Polo shops and knick-knacks. He speaks of documents and evidence. He points out the Polo family crest carved into a wall. Even in the Marco Polo tower, a belvedere with spectacular views of the sail-spotted channel below, he is more concerned with a few stones in a yard beside it. ‘The tower is many years later than Marco Polo – but here we have discovered the base of a house from his time. It belonged to the Polo family.



http://www.bbc.com/travel/story/20110315-sailing-in-croatia
 
I always invite people who are interested in learning history to read this text:
1332
Anonymous:
Initiative for Making the Passage


People mentioned as Latins in this text are not Vlachs.

Under the the term "Latins" there were two ethnic groups - Dalmatians and Catholic Slavs (Croats).

Under the term "evil Slavs" the author mean East Orthodox Slavs who were sometimes hostile towards the local Catholic population.
 
Googled for the Dalmatian shepherds and reached to this picture,it's from sibenik,


https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-s...ik-adria-dalmatia-adriatic-coast-7557641.html


these are sheeps from the same main race like the traditional Romanian turcana(tzurcana,tsurcana ,not related to Turkey),with curly, long and thick wool.


Turcan,turcana has no etymology, but it is surely an inherited word,because it sounds very similar to tarc(tzarc,tsarc,sheep enclosure).



https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/țarc



https://ro.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/țurcan
 
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Under the the term "Latins" there were two ethnic groups - Dalmatians (Romans) and Catholic Slavs (Croats).

Under the term "evil Slavs" the author mean East Orthodox Slavs who were sometimes hostile towards the local Catholic population.

I called Dalmatians those who spoke a dialect of Dalmatian Romance. They lived in the coastal cities. Later they were assimilated by Catholic Slavs (Croats) and started to speak Croatian.
 
i will revist my book...Venice and the slavs ...and let you know.
.
in regards to Marco Polo ...........his grandfather was Andrea Polo born in Venice in 1185
his father was Niccolo born in Venice in 1220
Korcula was under Venice from the 10th to the 14th century, just because Marco was born there of Venetian parents does not make him a Croat.
Marco married Donata Badoer ( a venetian noble family )
.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2212682113000140
above might be of interest to you

Some useful links:

The document which indicates the Dalmatian origin: http://www.korcula.net/mpolo/mpolobrit.htm

An article by dr. Zivan Filippi on Polo/De Polo family in Korcula: http://www.korcula.net/mpolo/mpolo2.htm
 
Winds used for guidance, from my area:


austru,west


Baltaretu,The One from the Balta,Danube,south


Cornu Caprii,Goat's Horn,east


Traista Goala,Empty Bag,north

Cainar,Dog Keeper,south
 
Trastë/a in Albanian means bag. Meanwhile balta means mud.
 
I have seen the whole World generalizes the "stupidity" of the countrymen, this is a false concept,in fact the people from the towns are afraid because the "peasants" have more vigour, do things in their own way,make little compromises and they could seize "the power" much more easily.


The intelligence and creativity are much more concentrated to the countryside,because you have to manage with lots of different,important,situations,while the townsmen are simple flocks led by the local fashion.


Another difference here,genuine men come from the countryside, while in the cities ,you can find a lot of false ones,easy to understand.
 
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Traista is related to Calabrian trastina,shepherd's bag
The word also appears in expressions like "traista kind", for "uncivilized, raw,country, persons",bumpkin.


These kinds of expressions are in reality cheap stereotypes about the shepherds, seen by the " normal" people as "outsiders ",men with dubious look and intentions,that have weird ways of entertainment, etc.



To the contrary,shepherdry was in fact an elite " institution " in the past,where only men with certain skills had the chance to practice.


https://www.italyheritage.com/italian-songs/regional/calabria/u-pecuraru.htm



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd6o8Ekem9s
 

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